19 replies to this topic

[dsd108]

Radha Soami mat was started by Shiv Dayal in Agra. The Beas is a totally different sect started by a Sikh called Jaimal Singh.

Jaimal borrowed his ideas from Guru Granth Sahib and preached Radha Soami Mat also called Sant Mat.

He taught people to meditate at third eye and follow the light that sprouts infront. He said the inner sound (dhuni) will guide you to Nij Ghar.

His followers thought he was a Sikh and built him a Gurdwara but later on he removed Guru Granth Sahib and made his own Dera on the bank of Beas river.

[shaheediyan]

Sant Mat is not a Radaoswami Mat. It refers to the original Bhakti movement.

Nearly everything else these people teach is hijacked from Gurbani, with their dedari Guru's taking all the credit.

[Mithar]

The current beas Radhasoami Matt is not only falsely hijacking the Sikh faith traditions, but beleive it or not, it is also hijacking the Radhasoami faith itself. Shiv Dayal said in his own statement that it was his student/follower Salig Ram who started the Radhasoami faith. Then a Sikh soldier by the name of Jaimal Singh falsely started to claim that he was given the Guru Jyot by Shiv Dayal. Jaimal also started to give a different Naam from the original Agra Radha Soamis. The Radha Soamis in Agra to this day do Jaap on the Mantra "Radhasoami" but the beas lineage does Jaap of a Mantra of five names "Jot Niranjan, Omkar, Rarankar, Sohang, and Sat Nam".

The original Agra Radha soami Gurus do not claim their lineage from the Sikh Gurus neither do they hijack Gurbani to furthur their agenda. The Beas Radha Soami are different in this regard as well, they began falsely claiming Guru lineage from the Sikh Gurus and also began using Gurbani in order to misguide and attract Sikhs.

[valli singh]

I don't think that the Beas group ever claimed that they came from the Sikh Gurus
but they definately love to quote Gurbani and they do say that Sikhs have gone astray by worshipping Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.

Actually the Agra lineage claims that Guru Gobind Singh ji gave Charan Amrit to Tulsi Sahib of Hathras, and he intitiated Shiv Singh Dayal--it is all there in some of their earliest publications,

The Beas group on the other hand says that Shiv Singh Dayal had no guru.

The Agra group has taken on a more Hindu slant while the Beas has tried to straddle the Sikh and Radhaswami worlds.

These are all the Radhasaomi groups that I am aware of, feel free to add more:

1. Agra--Sant Das

2. Beas--Gurinder Singh

3. Saomi Bagh--broken off from Agra

4. Dera Baba Bagga Singh,--from Beas

5. Radhasaomi Dinod Satsang--Haryana

6. Ruhani Satsang--Delhi

7. Sant Mat--Thakur Singh/Baljit Singh, Delhi

8. Kirpal/Sawan Ashram--Chicago/India

9. Sadhu Ram Singh--?

10. Faquir Chand Dera--?

11. Dera Saucha Sauda--claims to be from Beas

[Mithar]

Valli Singh Jee, they do claim their lineage from the Sikh Gurus. But they also make some other weird claims. They claim that Bhagat Kabir Jee was the Guru of Guru Nanak and it was from Bhagat Kabir ji that Guru Nanak Dev Jee got naam from. The original Radha Soami Guru, Soami Shiv Dayal wrote in his last will that Salig Ram is the starter of the Radhasoami faith. Nowehere does he mention Jaimal Singh who started the Beas dera. Jaimal Singh never openly declared himself Satguru. He would give the Radhasoami Naam under the authority of Agra. But internally to his immediate followers at beas he would falsely claim that he is the true successor of Soami Shiv Dayal without any proof to back up this claim. Sawan Singh who succeeded Jaimal Singh also continued giving naam under the authority of Agra. But this all changed after two major events in Radhasoami history. One was that Chacha Ji(brother of Soami Shiv Dayal) died who was the main authority of the Radhasoami faith at the time and second the Dayal bagh faction broke away causing the Agra Dera to weaken. Seeing these events, Sawan Singh became confident enough to start openly declaring himself Satguru of the Radhasoamis.

The current Beas Radha Soami Baba, Gurinder Dhillon is smart. He tries not to mess with Sikhs and acts politically correct. All the Radhasoami books written since he took power try to use a more humble tone regarding Sikh Gurus. The previous Baba, Charan Singh was more confrontational with the Sikhs. He would not hide his belief that he is holding the Gurgadhi of the Sikh Gurus.

Shockingly Dera Sacha Souda in Sirsa and Dera Noormahal of Ashutosh are also breakaway Radhasoami groups from the Beas Dera and both are open enemies of the Sikhs

[valli singh]

Interesting

[drawrof]

simple question,

with the meditative aspect, what makes radhasoami's different than sikhs? (excluding saas-graas as per the akj).

thanks

[valli singh]

Good question,

they do simran like us except they jap 5 names,

also they are taught to do dhyan of their guru's face while doing it,

and they have a practise called bhajan which refers to plugging the ears and listening
to the anhad shabd.

[Mithar]

Valli Singh is right. The beas dera does meditation on the 5 name Mantra Jot Niranjan, Onkar, Rarankar, Sohang, and Sat Nam. They claim that as they progress spiritually they will start to hear sounds of drums, flutes, bells and the final state they will hear the sound of bagpipes. They focus on the image of their current Guru. They do not focus on the image of the previous Gurus, just the one who was alive at the time of their innitiation. They sit in the squating position while covering their eyes and ears with their fingers and thumb. Gurinder Dhillon changed the age of initiation to 25ys minimum for the initiate.

Even though their first Guru, Soami Shiv Dayal wrote bani called Sar Bachan, yet the beas dera rarely quote from that. They mostly always quote from Sikh scriptures in order to misguide and convert Sikhs of Punjab. The Agra Radhasoami(who are the genuine Radhasoamis) don't care about Sikh scriptures neither do they claim lineage from Sikh Gurus.

[Matheen]

Never trust any group that gets huge trats of land for free from the government.....

[fatehsingh]

Never trust any group that gets huge trats of land for free from the government.....

There's actually quite a controversy on whether the land where Harimandir Sahib sits was granted (offered for free) by Akbar or not. For a good read: http://sikh-heritage...T/gltemple.html

[drawrof]

Fair enough,

Why those 5? (I ask out of understanding the reasoning behind it)

Do they focus on chakars?

What is their view of kirtan?

Is meditation their crux for everything, is it any different for sikhs?

Thanks

[valli singh]

The 5 names are said to represent the lords of the 5 spiritual regions between earth and Sachkhand
being the fifth.

They are also asked to visualize the five regions when reciting each name.

They only focus on the 6th chakra, none below it.

I don't think they do kirtan or attach any importance to it,
I think they just sing shabds with no musical accompaniment and the master explains the meaning of the shabd.

They really do give alot of importance to meditation, I've heard that when they are initiated they have to make a vow
to meditate for at least 2 and a half hours daily,

as Sikhs we should be focused on meditation, sadly meditation seems to be neglected in mainstream parchar
which is probably why many mystically-inclined Sikhs are going elsewhere (becoming radhasaomis)
where that is more stressed.

[Mithar]

You are right Valli Singh Jee. I have a relative who is a Radhaswami and he used to meditate everyday for 2 and half hours. Now he meditates for 3 and a half hour a day. Strangly, despite doing so much meditation, he cannot control himself whenever he see's liquor/alcohol beverage.

I also know so many people who thirst for spirituality but they do not find it in Gurdwaras because either the Granthis/Raagi themselves don't know anything about the subject or because Gurdwara are too obsessed with politics rather than what really matters i.e. meditation on the Gurmatra. As a result many of these people become Radhaswamis in order to quench their thirst for spirituality.

[Xylitol]

gurdwaras don't focus on kamai. instead they focus on russ for the ears through kirtan etc, or its sakhis.