189 replies to this topic

[singh2]

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It is not eulogy as expressed by you. A dictionary says eulogy is a formal expression of praise for someone who has died recently.

Dictionary has other meaning also. That is high praise. Did you miss it.
If not able to find that let me know i will post it for you.

Quote

Please ponder. Words like Ajoonee, Nirankaar, Niroopam can only be for Akaal. But the title of this Hymn is 'Sri Kaal Jee kee Ustati'. Why?

Kal is functional attribute of same nirankar God. I request you to read jaap sahib. Try it and all your doubts will vanish.

Jaap sahib starts with

ਚੱਕ੍ਰ ਚਿਹਨ ਅਰੁ ਬਰਨ ਜਾਤਿ ਅਰੁ ਪਾਤਿ ਨਹਿਨ ਜਿਹ ॥
च्क्र चिहन अरु बरन जाति अरु पाति नहिन जिह ॥
He who is without mark or sign, He who is without caste or line.

ਰੂਪ ਰੰਗ ਅਰੁ ਰੇਖ ਭੇਖ ਕੋਊ ਕਹਿ ਨ ਸਕਤਿ ਕਿਹ ॥
रूप रंग अरु रेख भेख कोऊ कहि न सकति किह ॥
He who is without colour or form, and without any distinctive norm.

ਅਚਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਨਭਉ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ ਅਮਿਤੋਜਿ ਕਹਿਜੈ ॥
अचल मूरति अनभउ प्रकास अमितोजि कहिजै ॥
He who is without limit and motion, All effulgence, non-descript Ocean.

ਕੋਟਿ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਇੰਦ੍ਰਾਣਿ ਸਾਹੁ ਸਾਹਾਣਿ ਗਣਿਜੈ ॥
कोटि इंद्र इंद्राणि साहु साहाणि गणिजै ॥
The Lord of millions of Indras and kings, the Master of all worlds and beings.

ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਮਹੀਪ ਸੁਰ ਨਰ ਅਸੁਰ ਨੇਤਿ ਨੇਤਿ ਬਨ ਤ੍ਰਿਣ ਕਹਤ ॥
त्रिभवण महीप सुर नर असुर नेति नेति बन त्रिण कहत ॥
Each twig of the foliage proclaims: "Not this Thou art.

ਤ੍ਵ ਸਰਬ ਨਾਮ ਕਥੈ ਕਵਨ ਕਰਮ ਨਾਮ ਬਰਣਤ ਸੁਮਤਿ ॥੧॥
त्व सरब नाम कथै कवन करम नाम बरणत सुमति ॥१॥
All Thy Names cannot be told. That is why wise people call you by functional names

then Guru sahib writes



ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਕਾਲੇ ॥ ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਦਿਆਲੇ ॥
नमो सरब काले ॥ नमो सरब दिआले ॥
Salutation to Thee O All-destroyer Lord! Salutation to Thee O Entirely Generous Lord!

ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਕਾਲੇ ॥ ਨਮੋ ਸਰਬ ਪਾਲੇ ॥੨੦॥
नमो सरब काले ॥ नमो सरब पाले ॥२०॥
Salutation to Thee O Annihilator Lord! Salutation to Thee O All-sustainer Lord!20

Jaap sahib

Edited by singh2, 20 July 2009 - 09:47 PM.

[singh2]

[quote name='singh2' date='Jul 20 2009, 09:44 PM' post='102203']
Dictionary has other meaning also. That is high praise. Did you miss it.
If not able to find that let me know i will post it for you.





Euolgy is to Kal . You will find upto verse 17 description of attributes of Formless God
Chhand 18 onwards Guru sahib describes formless God or description in in terms of human what is not human.

This is called Anthropomorphism.

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and singh2 Jee!

Quote "Euolgy is to Kal . You will find upto verse 17 description of attributes of Formless God"
Please explain if the following Vaaks are attributes of Formless or God in different Forms.

ਮਹਾ ਦੇਵ ਦੇਵੰ ਮਹਾ ਜੋਗ ਜੋਗੰ ॥ ਮਹਾ ਕਾਮ ਕਾਮੰ ਮਹਾ ਭੋਗ ਭੋਗੰ ॥੧੦॥
महा देव देवं महा जोग जोगं ॥ महा काम कामं महा भोग भोगं ॥१०॥

ਕਹੂੰ ਰਾਜਸੰ ਤਾਮਸੰ ਸਾਤਕੇਯੰ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਨਾਰ ਕੇ ਰੂਪ ਧਾਰੇ ਨਰੇਯੰ॥
कहूं राजसं तामसं सातकेयं ॥ कहूं नार के रूप धारे नरेयं॥

ਕਹੂੰ ਦੇਵੀਅੰ ਦੇਵਤੰ ਦਈਤ ਰੂਪੰ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਰੂਪ ਅਨੇਕ ਧਾਰੇ ਅਨੂਪੰ ॥੧੧॥
कहूं देवीअं देवतं दईत रूपं ॥ कहूं रूप अनेक धारे अनूपं ॥११॥

ਕਹੂੰ ਫੂਲ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਕੈ ਭਲੇ ਰਾਜ ਫੂਲੇ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਭਵਰ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਕੈ ਭਲੀ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਭੂਲੇ ॥
कहूं फूल ह्वै कै भले राज फूले ॥ कहूं भवर ह्वै कै भली भांति भूले ॥

ਕਹੂੰ ਪਉਨ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਕੈ ਬਹੇ ਬੇਗਿ ਐਸੇ ॥ ਕਹੇ ਮੋ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਕਥੋਂ ਤਾਹਿ ਕੈਸੇ ॥੧੨॥
कहूं पउन ह्वै कै बहे बेगि ऐसे ॥ कहे मो न आवै कथों ताहि कैसे ॥१२॥

ਕਹੂੰ ਨਾਦ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਕੈ ਭਲੀ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਬਾਜੇ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਪਾਰਧੀ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਕੈ ਧਰੇ ਬਾਨ ਰਾਜੇ ॥
कहूं नाद ह्वै कै भली भांति बाजे ॥ कहूं पारधी ह्वै कै धरे बान राजे ॥

ਕਹੂੰ ਮ੍ਰਿਗ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਕੈ ਭਲੀ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਮੋਹੇ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਕਾਮੁਕੀ ਜਿਉ ਧਰੇ ਰੂਪ ਸੋਹੇ ॥੧੩॥
कहूं म्रिग ह्वै कै भली भांति मोहे ॥ कहूं कामुकी जिउ धरे रूप सोहे ॥१३॥


Balbir Singh

[singh2]

Balbir Singh, on Jul 20 2009, 10:42 PM, said:

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and singh2 Jee!

Quote "Euolgy is to Kal . You will find upto verse 17 description of attributes of Formless God"
Please explain if the following Vaaks are attributes of Formless or God in different Forms.

ਮਹਾ ਦੇਵ ਦੇਵੰ ਮਹਾ ਜੋਗ ਜੋਗੰ ॥ ਮਹਾ ਕਾਮ ਕਾਮੰ ਮਹਾ ਭੋਗ ਭੋਗੰ ॥੧੦॥
महा देव देवं महा जोग जोगं ॥ महा काम कामं महा भोग भोगं ॥१०॥

ਕਹੂੰ ਰਾਜਸੰ ਤਾਮਸੰ ਸਾਤਕੇਯੰ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਨਾਰ ਕੇ ਰੂਪ ਧਾਰੇ ਨਰੇਯੰ॥
कहूं राजसं तामसं सातकेयं ॥ कहूं नार के रूप धारे नरेयं॥

ਕਹੂੰ ਦੇਵੀਅੰ ਦੇਵਤੰ ਦਈਤ ਰੂਪੰ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਰੂਪ ਅਨੇਕ ਧਾਰੇ ਅਨੂਪੰ ॥੧੧॥
कहूं देवीअं देवतं दईत रूपं ॥ कहूं रूप अनेक धारे अनूपं ॥११॥

ਕਹੂੰ ਫੂਲ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਕੈ ਭਲੇ ਰਾਜ ਫੂਲੇ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਭਵਰ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਕੈ ਭਲੀ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਭੂਲੇ ॥
कहूं फूल ह्वै कै भले राज फूले ॥ कहूं भवर ह्वै कै भली भांति भूले ॥

ਕਹੂੰ ਪਉਨ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਕੈ ਬਹੇ ਬੇਗਿ ਐਸੇ ॥ ਕਹੇ ਮੋ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਕਥੋਂ ਤਾਹਿ ਕੈਸੇ ॥੧੨॥
कहूं पउन ह्वै कै बहे बेगि ऐसे ॥ कहे मो न आवै कथों ताहि कैसे ॥१२॥

ਕਹੂੰ ਨਾਦ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਕੈ ਭਲੀ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਬਾਜੇ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਪਾਰਧੀ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਕੈ ਧਰੇ ਬਾਨ ਰਾਜੇ ॥
कहूं नाद ह्वै कै भली भांति बाजे ॥ कहूं पारधी ह्वै कै धरे बान राजे ॥

ਕਹੂੰ ਮ੍ਰਿਗ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਕੈ ਭਲੀ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਮੋਹੇ ॥ ਕਹੂੰ ਕਾਮੁਕੀ ਜਿਉ ਧਰੇ ਰੂਪ ਸੋਹੇ ॥੧੩॥
कहूं म्रिग ह्वै कै भली भांति मोहे ॥ कहूं कामुकी जिउ धरे रूप सोहे ॥१३॥


Balbir Singh

You have broken chhand 10. If you read complete chhand it is clear quite clear what guru sahib is saying.
It means Formless God is God of mahadev . So all these lines are an eulogy to formless God.

ਅਲੇਖੰ ਅਭੇਖੰ ਅਭੂਤੰ ਅਦ੍ਵੈਖੰ ॥ ਨ ਰਾਗੰ ਨ ਰੰਗੰ ਨ ਰੂਪੰ ਨ ਰੇਖੰ ॥
ਮਹਾ ਦੇਵ ਦੇਵੰ ਮਹਾ ਜੋਗ ਜੋਗੰ ॥ ਮਹਾ ਕਾਮ ਕਾਮੰ ਮਹਾ ਭੋਗ ਭੋਗੰ ॥੧੦॥


He is Accountless, Guiseless, Elementless and Blemishless. He is without attachment, colour, form and mark.
He is the Greatest of gods and the Supreme Yogi. He is the Greatest of the rapturous and the greatest of the Ravishing.10.

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!
Dear all and singh2 Jee!

Quote "You have broken chhand 10. If you read complete chhand it is clear quite clear what guru sahib is saying.
It means Formless God is God of mahadev . So all these lines are an eulogy to formless God."
It was to draw your attention on a particular Vaak.

ਮਹਾ ਦੇਵ ਦੇਵੰ ਮਹਾ ਜੋਗ ਜੋਗੰ ॥ Mahaa Dev DevaM means Great Dev of Devas. It does not mean the Formless God of mahadev.

Formless God is God of all.
Also, all is God Himself.
HE Himself is the Praise.
He is praising Himself.

*****

Gurdev wrote Akaal Ustati. Gurdev also wrote Kaal Ustati.
Is there any difference? Please explain.

*****

Please improve the translations first.

For example:
ਰੂਪ ਰੰਗ ਅਰੁ ਰੇਖ ਭੇਖ ਕੋਊ ਕਹਿ ਨ ਸਕਤਿ ਕਿਹ ॥
रूप रंग अरु रेख भेख कोऊ कहि न सकति किह ॥
He who is without colour or form, and without any distinctive norm.

The correct translation, in my view, is this.

Form, colour and outline, dress nobody can explain.

Gurdev is saying. Nobody can say His Form, Colour, Sketch or Dress.
Your translation says. God does not have these.

*****

I have a curiosity to know.

Gurdev is singing.

ਕਹੂੰ ਫੂਲ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਕੈ ਭਲੇ ਰਾਜ ਫੂਲੇ ॥
कहूं फूल ह्वै कै भले राज फूले ॥
kahooN phool hwai kai bhale raj phoole.

Is it wrong to respect and worship flowers?

*****

Merging in God is in progress. HE is realized when He reveals His Nirguna and Sarguna Forms at the same time.


Balbir Singh

[Kaljug]

The Khalsa Fauj, on Jul 20 2009, 04:58 PM, said:

Kalyug, nice showing of your Gurmat gyan with your post and choice of words. It is because of language of Gurmukhs like you that whole kaum loves to take khanday kee pahul and is Amritdhari. Keep up the good work fella.

Fateh!

Thanks for your kind words, veer ji.

I want to thank you also for inspiring Sikhs to read Dasam bani with greater care and for showing us all the dangers of trying to interpret our Father's writings with Kala Afghani's manmati views.

Regards,
K.

[singh2]

Quote

I have a curiosity to know.

Gurdev is singing.

ਕਹੂੰ ਫੂਲ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਕੈ ਭਲੇ ਰਾਜ ਫੂਲੇ ॥
कहूं फूल ह्वै कै भले राज फूले ॥
kahooN phool hwai kai bhale raj phoole.

Is it wrong to respect and worship flowers

Keep in mind that it is praise of God. In view of that your above point
is meaningless.

[singh2]

Fauji was insisting on a debate with singhs at toronto.

Here is a reference for that. A singh from tronto has done that already with Fauji/ International akali.
He is again challenging them right in Toronto. Fauji, are you listenting.

http://forums.panthic.net/index.php?showto...35435&st=20

International Akaali, there is a Singh in the Toronto area named Davinder Singh, he recently wrote a small booklet called : ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਦਾ ਵਿਰੋਧ ਕਿੳ?

Either you or 'Khalsa Fauj' already has a copy of this booklet, it was handed out at one of the Nagar Kirtans in Toronto. Davinder Singh has already asked one of you to read the booklet and then get back to him. He has not heard back from either of you yet. He is open for ANY debate. In fact, he has successfully debated many of your Kala-Aghani chamchays in Toronto and Faridabad. Feel free to contact him (his number in on the booklet) if you are serious about this.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Quote

You are talking about khande di pahul. have you taken khande di pahul? if so why are not you reading prescribed
banis? Had you read Jaap sahib you would not have raised such silly questions.

Kalyug ji's language is thousand times better than what you use.

Oh yes! I have taken Khanday Kee Pahul. You jealous? I have read and understood Jaap.
Are your children Pahuldhari?

Quote

Thanks for your kind words, veer ji.

I want to thank you also for inspiring Sikhs to read Dasam bani with greater care and for showing us all the dangers of trying to interpret our Father's writings with Kala Afghani's manmati views.

I appreciate your comment. If you mean Guru Granth Sahib Ji when you say father's bani, then that is great news. I don't know kala afgani because I follow Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Quote

He is again challenging them right in Toronto. Fauji, are you listenting.

I have been talking to Davinder Singh for more than a year. He talks to me at times. I did call him on one of his numbers but he wasn't available. I just haven't had time to call him again. Just ask him about me and he will tell you. He will also tell you about Vishnu.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Why weren't my posts approved?