19 replies to this topic

[N30 S!NGH]

I wanted to get more information on sri sarbloh granth. I know its believed by nihangs and by many sikhs sants that its written by sri guroo gobind singh ji. I just wanted to start this thread to discuss sri sarbloh granth bit more in detail.

1. When was sri sarbloh granth was written?

2. Is there any puratan bir of sri sarbloh granth found at any of the takths?

3. Those who have steek of sri sarbloh granth by jathedar maharaj baba santa singh ji, can we request to get table of contents scanned to put up on this forum?

4. Is there any well know quotes which are usually sung or reciten in the panth which is from sri sarbloh granth?

5. Can we get specific quotes from sri sarbloh granth talking about vahiguroo gurmantar?

6. There is a bit research done on methodology framework behind sri dasam granth sahib, is there any anyalsis done on sri sarbloh granth ji framework too? If so, where can we read more about it?

7. Why people doubt its authenticity?

Thats it for now.

Please discuss and share..!

[amardeep]

good links on sarbhloh granth

http://www.sikhawareness.com//index.php?sh...=sarbloh+granth


http://www.sikhawareness.com//index.php?sh...=sarbloh+granth

post by niranjana

Quote

Gur Fateh!

The Sarabloh Granth is the 2nd collection of Guru Gobind Singh's writings. It is complex material and widely disputed by many not to be Gurbani.

It is indeed surrounded by mystery with the Nihangs (the chief custodians of this Granth, recently made available in a 2 part steek by the Buddha Dal) claiming that it is a secret text for the Dal Khalsa.

Others state that it is the works of Sukha Singh in the mid-late 18th Century, who is often described to be a Devi-worshipper on account on the opening invocation in the Sarabloh Parkash "SriMahaLaskhmiJiSahai" -perhaps Sardarni Sahiba SadhRyan Kaur can also comment on this point, as she certainly showed some strong opinions last time it was mentioned.

In short, it's concerns the accounts of Sarabloh Avtar and the battles ensued with the Demons in addition it also contains the aforementioned predictions of the Khalsa (which are attributed to Guru Gobind Singh) and is the main Granth is make reference to the Treh Mudra (Kesh, Kard and Kacch) which later came to be known as the 5 Kakkars that we all wear today.

Issues questioning its authenticity relate to its relative unavailabilty and are drawn on the conclusions of Pandit Tara Singh Narotum, where he argues the language, albeit complex, is not of the same nature as that found in the Dasam Granth amongst other reasons.

Hope this helps, there are debates concerning the Sarabloh Parkash on this forum and also on Sikhawareness.

Gur Fateh!

and

Quote

SARABLOH GRANTH, a poem narrating the mythological story of the gods and the demons, in ascribed to Guru Gobind Singh, and is therefore treated as a sacred scripture among certain sections of the Sikhs, particularly the Nihang Sikhs. The authorship is however questioned by researchers and scholars of Sikhism on several counts. First, the work is marked by extraordinary effusiveness and discursiveness of style over against the compactness characteristic of Guru Gobind Singh's compositions collected in the Dasam Granth. Qualitatively, too, the poetry of Sarabloh Granth does not match that of Guru Gobind Singh's Chandi Charitras and Var Durga Ki dealing with the same topic of wars between the gods and the demons. Profusion of metaphor and superb imagery of the latter compositions are missing here. Second, the author of Sarabloh Granth often uses his name, 'Das Gobind' or the phrase 'Das Gobind fatah satigur ki', which is generally contrary to the style of Guru Gobind Singh. Third, the Sarabloh Granth contains, quite out of context, an account of the Sikh religion, which also includes a reference to the devolution of guruship on Guru Granth and Guru Panth (stanzas 3159-66). This would be out of place in a work of Guru Gobind Singh's own composition. Lastly, there is also a reference in it to Rup Dip Bhasha Pihgal (stanza 2938/ 8), a work on prosody written by one Jaya Krishna in 1719, i.e. eleven years after the death of

tlie Guru.

According to Pandit Tara Singh Narotam, a nineteenth century Sikh scholar and researcher, Sarabloh Granth is the work of Bhai Sukha Singh, a granthi or priest at Takht Harimandar Sahib at Patna Sahib, who however claimed that he had acquired its manuscript from an Udasi recluse living in a forest near Jagannath (Orissa).
Whatever its origin, the Granth became quite well-known and many hand-written copies of it exist. It is now available in printed form published in two parts by Baba Santa Singh, head of the Buddha Dal of Nihang Sikhs. It is a lengthy composition in a variety of metres, comprising totally 4361 stanzas (862 pages in print). The original source of the narrative is, according to the author (stanzas 2093, 3312.3409), Sukra Bhashya, an old classic of Hindu mythology. It is divided into five parts, part-I starting with a lengthy panegyric and invocation to goddess Sri Maya Lachhami, who is identified with Adi Bhavani (lit. Primordial Goddess), Durga,Jvala, Kali or Kalika, Chandi, as also with masculine Hari and Gopal. Among her myriad attributive names is also Sarabloh (lit. all-steel) which had been used by Guru Gobind Singh for Akal-Purakh, the Supreme God, in Akal Ustati. In part-II, Lord Visnu is entreated to become incarnate as Sarabloh (stanza 1167). But it is early in part V that it becomes clear that Sarabloh is an incarnation of Mahakal or Gopal, the Supreme Deity (stanza 2386).

The plot of Sarabloh Granth is almost identical with that of Chandi Charitras. The gods defeated by the demons approach the Goddess Bhavani who kills several demons including their chief Bhimanad during the 7-year long war. Later, Bhimanad's son,Viryanad, rises in power and wages war against the gods. This time Lord Visnu comes to their succour. Brahma and Siva also help ; but Viryanad not only remains unbeaten in the 12-year long war, but also captures the king of the gods, Indra, along with his sons. Visnu secures their release and leads them to Mahakal, who at their supplications appe

ars as Sarabloh and after further battles, fiercely fought, puts an end to Viryanad and his host. At this stage, the poet also describes the epic as a contest between reason and irrationality in which the former ultimately triumphs.

[amardeep]

Five points casting doubt on the ascribed authorship of Guru Gobind Singh.

* 1. The work is marked by extraordinary effusiveness and discursiveness of style, compaired to the compactness, so characteristic of Guru Gobind Singh's compositions collected in the Dasam Granth. Qualitatively, too, the poetry of Sarabloh Granth does not match that of Guru Gobind Singh's Chandi Charttras and Var Durga Ki dealing with the same topic of wars between the gods and the demons. The profusion of metaphor and superb imagery of the latter compositions are missing here.

* 2. The author of Sarbloh Granth often uses his name, 'Das Gobind' or the phrase 'Das Gobind fatah satgur ki', which is generally contrary to the style of Guru Gobind Singh.

* 3. The Sarbloh Granth contains, quite out of context, an account of the Sikh religion, which also includes a reference to the devolution of guruship on Guru Granth Sahib and Guru Panth (stanzas 3159-66). This would be out of place in a work of Guru Gobind Singh's own composition.

* 4. There is also a reference in it to Rup Dip Bhasha Pingal (stanza 2938/ 8), a work on prosody written by one Jaya Krishna in 1719, i.e. eleven years after the death of the Guru.

* 5. It uses dass Gobind or Fateh Gobind yet mentions Guru Granth Sahib being Guru. This means it is written after Guru Granth Sahib received Gurgaddi

if Guru wrote it then it wouldn't be dass gobind but Gobind Singh. that is if Guru was going to use his own name. But Guru Ji used Nanak as all Gurus had Guru Nanak's jot. So why would Guru Gobind SIngh Ji use something else? If 5th Nanak doesn't have permission to change 1 word from Guru Granth Sahib Ji, then how did 10th Guru get permission to change Nanak to Gobind?


http://www.sikhiwiki.../Sarbloh_Granth

[jsingh96]

went thru sarbloh granth very very briefly (about 5-6 hours in total) with baba inderjit singh ji

will post my notes on it, espically for questions 1, 4 and 5

[Kam1825]

From the puratan birs and the two part steek brought out by the Buddha Dal i have been told there is a lot missing and also a lot of additions which should not be in the steek!!!

Maybe the Nihangs will know better wbout the Steek but Sampardai Mahapursh state the Steek has been changed alot and books by Giani Gian Singh and Pandit Tara Singh Narotam have quotes from the Sri Sarbloh Granth which cannot be found in the published Buddha Dal steeks

[amardeep]

What is the reason for these changes?

[Kam1825]

No, idea, to be honest my knowledge of this granth is scant. I believe it to be the works of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji but the Bir which was in Leicester differed from the Steek alot.

[amardeep]

what is the logical explanation for this:



* 4. There is also a reference in it to Rup Dip Bhasha Pingal (stanza 2938/ 8), a work on prosody written by one Jaya Krishna in 1719, i.e. eleven years after the death of the Guru.

[Kam1825]

Is that the case in all of the Birs? I do not think anyone has done an extensive analysis on this granth like on the Sri Dasam Granth

[Silence]

One thing great about this granth is, the obvious proof of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji having gurgaddi, WRITTEN PROOF, smack in the face of all anti-sikh groups.

[amardeep]

Silence: There is also the Gursobha from 1711 saying Shabad humara satguru after saying the Khalsa is given the gurgaddi.

[drawrof]

Silence, on Jul 3 2009, 10:02 AM, said:

One thing great about this granth is, the obvious proof of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji having gurgaddi, WRITTEN PROOF, smack in the face of all anti-sikh groups.

Could you please explain or provide the source? Thanks

[Silence]

drawrof, on Jul 3 2009, 07:42 AM, said:

Could you please explain or provide the source? Thanks

Source is from nihang kamalroop singh ji blog:

"In Ko Daras Satguru Ko darshan bolan Guru Shabad Gur Grantha.
Dvadas Roop Satigur Eh Kaiyat Dvadas Bhan Pargat Har Santha.
Partakya Kala Parbraham Dhanee Shai Granth Panth Khalsa Vartanta.
Das Gobind Fateh Satgur Ki Khalsa Granth Gur Roop Bidanta"
"Having the blessed audience (of the Khalsa) is equal to having the audience of the Guru, as long as they are singing the songs of love held within Guru Granth Sahib.
There are twelve forms of the Guru this is what I (Guru Gobind Singh) tell you,
There are twelve forms who revealed themselves I tell you Oh Saints.
This is the blatant arrow of power dispensed by the ultimate Creator,
Deal with the Guru Granth Guru Panth as the Khalsa.
The slave of the Deathless Being, Guru Gobind Singh, (does not recognise this victory as his), the victory is of supreme true Guru, the Khalsa and the Granth, these are very form and presence of the Guru."

Vaheguru, Dhan hai Guru Gobind Singh Ji dhan hai Guru Granth Sahib Ji!

Quote

Silence: There is also the Gursobha from 1711 saying Shabad humara satguru after saying the Khalsa is given the gurgaddi.

what i meant was by guru sahib ji, otherwise such groups just moan that only sikhs made it up, sorry for not clarifying.

[drawrof]

Silence, on Jul 3 2009, 11:12 AM, said:

Source is from nihang kamalroop singh ji blog:

"In Ko Daras Satguru Ko darshan bolan Guru Shabad Gur Grantha.
Dvadas Roop Satigur Eh Kaiyat Dvadas Bhan Pargat Har Santha.
Partakya Kala Parbraham Dhanee Shai Granth Panth Khalsa Vartanta.
Das Gobind Fateh Satgur Ki Khalsa Granth Gur Roop Bidanta"
"Having the blessed audience (of the Khalsa) is equal to having the audience of the Guru, as long as they are singing the songs of love held within Guru Granth Sahib.
There are twelve forms of the Guru this is what I (Guru Gobind Singh) tell you,
There are twelve forms who revealed themselves I tell you Oh Saints.
This is the blatant arrow of power dispensed by the ultimate Creator,
Deal with the Guru Granth Guru Panth as the Khalsa.
The slave of the Deathless Being, Guru Gobind Singh, (does not recognise this victory as his), the victory is of supreme true Guru, the Khalsa and the Granth, these are very form and presence of the Guru."

Vaheguru, Dhan hai Guru Gobind Singh Ji dhan hai Guru Granth Sahib Ji!


what i meant was by guru sahib ji, otherwise such groups just moan that only sikhs made it up, sorry for not clarifying.

Thanks for the clarification, it makes sense

[jsingh96]

I was blessed to sit down and go through Sri Sarbloh Granth Sahib with Baba Inderjit Singh Ji, student of the late Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji Bhindran vale.

Baba Inderjit Singh was in total anand when he started reading Sri Sarbloh Granth Sahib. He told me how when he was young, he spent a lot of time at Hazur Sahib, and he was constantly be reading Sri Sarbloh Granth.

He picked out one shabad and told me about how Nihungs love this shabad, i soon realized why...

ਮਲਾਰ ॥

ਜੇ-ੳਪਮਾ ਸ੍ਰੀ-ਨਾਥ-ਕੀ-ਗਾਿੲ-ਹੈ; ਤੇ ਭਵ-ਫਾਸਿa ਨ-ਫੇਰ-ਪਰੇਗੇ ॥

bਅਾਰਿਤ-ਜੱਗ-ਕਰੇ-ਹਰਿ ਹੇਤੂ ਰਰੈc ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਾਥ ਨਿਸ੍ਹੈ ਕੈ ਤਰੇਗੇ ॥

ਪੂਜਬੇ ਜੋਗd ਨ ਅੌਰ ਹੈ ਦੂਸਰ, ੲੇਕ ਗੁਪਾਲ ਗੁਪਾਲ ਕਰੇਗੇ ॥

eਲੋਕ ਸੁਖੀ ਪਰਲੋਕ ਖਲਾਸ f ਅਕਾਲ ਅਕਾਲ ਅਕਾਲ ਕਰੇਗੇ ॥



the english letters are footnotes with some brief explanations, the last line is wicked lol

a) ਸੰਸਾਰ ਦੀ ਫਾਹੀ ਵਿਚ
ਜਿਹੜਾ ਵੀ ਹਰਿ ਦੇ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਅਾਰਤੀਅਾ ਅਤੇ ਯਗਯ ਕਰਨਗੇ
c) ੳੱਚਾਰਨਗੇ
d)ਪੂਜਯ
e & f) ਜਿਹੜਾ ਵੀ ਮਨ, ਬਾਣੀ, ਕਰਮ-ਨਾਲ ਅਕਾਲ ਅਕਾਲ ਅਕਾਲ ਕਰਨਗੇ ੳਹੀ ਿੲਸ ਲੋਕ ਵਿਚ ਸੁਖੀ ਅਤੇ ਪਰਲੋਕ ਵਿਚ ਖਲਾਸ (ਮੁਕਤ) ਹੋਣਗੇ lol


if anyone wants to look this up, go to the first volume of the steek, page 176




Giani Baba Inderjit Singh shared another shabad with me, that he said Puratan Singhs in the Nihang Dals used to recite


This used to be the ardaas Singhs would ask for

ਦਹੋਰਾ ॥

ਨੳ ਲਖ ਅੈਰਾਟੀ ਮਿਲੈ, ਮਿਲੈ ਸਰਾਯਚੈ ਲਾਖ ॥
Nine lakh of war horses we wish to receive, and a lakh small war drums

ਸ੍ਵਾ ਲਾਖ ਹਾਥੀ ਮਿਲੈ, ਦੇਹੁ ਯਹੈ ਅਭਿਲਾਖ ॥
Sava Lakh elephants we wish to receive, please bless us with these, this is our desire

ਖਾਸ ਸ੍ਵਾਰੀ ਮੁਹਿ ਚਲੈ, ਨੇਜਹ ਲਖ ਨਿਸਾਨ ॥
Always ride infront of us, and bless us with a lakh of nishan sahibs.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ, ਜੀਤਹਿ ਸਤ੍ਰ ਚੌਗਾਨ ॥
May Vahiguru always be with the Khalsa, defeating all of the enemies

ਯਹਿ ਲਾਲਚ ਗੁਣ ਤ੍ਵ ਕਹਯੋ ਦਾਸ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਮਾਜ ॥
This desire, from Guru Gobind Singh is for my sevaks, and we recite your praises

ਫਤਿਹ ਹੋਵੈ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਕੀ, ੳਦਯ ਅਸਤ ਲੌ ਰਾਜ ॥
The Khalsa's victory will be Vahigurus victory, and they will attain Udey Ast Lauh Raaj (empire that throughout the whole world and even to the sky)

(ਸਰਬਲੋਹ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ, ਪੰਜਵਾ ਅਧਯਾਯ)
Sarbloh Granth, Fifth Chapter


you can find this shabad if you look at the second volume of the Sarbloh Granth Steek, page 837.