43 replies to this topic

[chatanga1]

In another topic, it was mentioned that only those who live the warrior lifestyle should eat meat. So what is a warrior in gurmat?

[amardeep]

One who knows how to wield the sword and is ready to fight in battles against tyranny whatever form it might take (at local level etc.)

[dalsingh101]

Quote

and is ready to fight in battles against tyranny

That's not true if we are talking about a definition of warriors per se, wider than a Sikh conceptualisation. Some of them can actually be the forces of tyranny.

PS - I'm surprised no on has dropped in the famous verses of Bhagat Kabir on the matter.

Edited by dalsingh101, 18 November 2010 - 06:45 PM.

[chatanga1]

amardeep, what about those who wield the pen? why is only knowledge of the sword neccessary?

[amardeep]

Dalsingh: I think the famous verse of Kabir talks primarily about an internal fight, not an external which is obvious considering that there is no emphasis on yudh in any of Kabirs bani.

I think this shabad is often taken out of context when put in videos of gatka etc. I think the Sahib Singh teeka also says its about an internal fight, though not entirely excluding the external

Edited by amardeep, 18 November 2010 - 10:11 PM.

[Xylitol]

Sant Gurbachan Singh ji taught that the greater the warrior, the greater the stillness of their mind and control over their vikaars.

[Mithar]

amardeep, on 18 November 2010 - 05:56 PM, said:

One who knows how to wield the sword and is ready to fight in battles against tyranny whatever form it might take (at local level etc.)

Why only a sword? in today's world, a gun would do more damage to the enemy. Today's Khalsa must know how to fire a gun and even have survivalist techniques when push comes to shove.

Edited by Mithar, 18 November 2010 - 11:47 PM.

[amardeep]

Yes that is true. Guns and modern weaponry

[dalsingh101]

What about modern ashhters then? Like heat seeking missiles, armed jet fighters, helicopters, tanks etc. etc.

How do these fit into the framework of a modern warrior? Can we say that a true warrior keeps abreast of all developments and innovations of shasters/ashhters?

[chatanga1]

what if a person doesnt have to use a weapon like a sword as such, but he is a good fighter. does that make him a warrior?

In terms of Gurmat.

[Mithar]

dalsingh101, on 19 November 2010 - 01:50 PM, said:

What about modern ashhters then? Like heat seeking missiles, armed jet fighters, helicopters, tanks etc. etc.

How do these fit into the framework of a modern warrior? Can we say that a true warrior keeps abreast of all developments and innovations of shasters/ashhters?

In terms of modern warfare, knowledge of how to use fire arms is a must. We can have all the knowledge we want about swords and sticks, but if the opponent has one rifle, he can kill 10 of us in less than 10 second. Just imagine if in 1984 the Singhs would have used swords and spears against the Indian army, the Indian army would have won within minutes. But the Singhs trained in modern techniques using the gun and look at the hard time they gave the enemy.

Just look at our traditional enemy, the Pathans. Long ago they were known to be great swordsman, but now they train in modern guerrilla warfare using the gun and no army can beat them. The gun is a shastar of our times and we need to realize that. How long are we going to ignore this this great shastar?

[Mekhane'ch Jannat]

Being a true warrior and a sant is exactly the same thing. To be a warrior and use weapons you have to first be able to control your arm consciously which controls the weapon. If you arm is moved to attack by an external force, lets say by someone swearing at you making you angry, then this is a mechanical automated response and is unconscious and robotic. A warrior means someone who has a skill and uses the skill consciously from internal direction and not from external influences. A Sant is the same because he is unaffected by external forces but his weapon is Bhagti. A person who knows how to fight but cannot control when and when not to get angry is just like a machine who has been programmed - a very dangerous machine.

[amardeep]

Mohsin Fani narrates a story of Guru Hargobind of how he was always in control of his emotions when he killed the enemy - He never reacted as a response to impulses but rather every action was directed by his mind.

[dalsingh101]

Quote

Being a true warrior and a sant is exactly the same thing.

No it isn't.

Warrior implies being proficient in war, whatever its current form is. The wars need not be moral ones. Warriors do fight for selfish reasons, imperialism, money etc. etc.

[Mekhane'ch Jannat]

The wars need not be moral ones. Warriors do fight for selfish reasons, imperialism, money etc. etc.

So do some types of Sants do Bhagti to get siddhis and use them for selfish reasons imperialism money etc.