43 replies to this topic

[kdsingh80]

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As the historian Hari Ram Gupta writes in his book, every man in Punjab no matter what caste or dharm was always armed when going out and if needed even a potential warrior

Is it true or just fantasy of historian? 75 million Punjabi's are muslims ,if they were so great warriors then how come they embraced islam? Apart from Punjabi Khalsa's I never heard any great king of Punjab ,not even a muslim one.Afghans looted and plundered Punjuab for centuries.Sorry to say but no one will beleive the version of Hari Ram Gupta.

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Unfortunately, the gun was out of the question and sadly even after India's so called "independence" it is still difficult to get a license and possess a gun.

In a country like India Keeping Guns and pistols are out of question O/W murders and other crimes will increase 10 times as every person will start walking with gun.

[Mithar]

kdsingh80, on 20 November 2010 - 08:36 PM, said:

Is it true or just fantasy of historian? 75 million Punjabi's are muslims ,if they were so great warriors then how come they embraced islam? Apart from Punjabi Khalsa's I never heard any great king of Punjab ,not even a muslim one.Afghans looted and plundered Punjuab for centuries.Sorry to say but no one will beleive the version of Hari Ram Gupta.

Let us not underestimate Pathans. IN India, there is no indiginous warrior nation that can compare to the Panthans. The so called "greatness" of Punjabis is because of the Sikh Dharm. Before Sikh dharm arrived on the scene Punjabis could never stand up to the Pathans. This is one of the things that made the Gurus so great. They made us Punjabis so strong that we stood up to the Pathans and even crushed them. Hari Ram Gupta in his book writes that since Punjab was between Khyber pass and Delhi where invaders from the north west came from, Punjab was probably the most unsafe place in South Asia. As a result Punjabis had to arm themselves.

kdsingh80, on 20 November 2010 - 08:36 PM, said:

In a country like India Keeping Guns and pistols are out of question O/W murders and other crimes will increase 10 times as every person will start walking with gun.

That is just a myth that many liberals have brainwashed people with. Most of the (gun related) murders happen because of unlicensed guns. By making it harder for citizens to get licenses, they are letting citizens become defenseless. The British originally banned guns in India because they did not want a repeat of 1857 uprising, in other words they wanted defenseless Indians. In "independent" India, the federal government just continued these outdated laws to keep Indians defenseless and in their place.

Edited by Mithar, 20 November 2010 - 10:46 PM.

[kdsingh80]

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Let us not underestimate Pathans. IN India, there is no indiginous warrior nation that can compare to the Panthans. The so called "greatness" of Punjabis is because of the Sikh Dharm. Before Sikh dharm arrived on the scene Punjabis could never stand up to the Pathans. This is one of the things that made the Gurus so great. They made us Punjabis so strong that we stood up to the Pathans and even crushed them. Hari Ram Gupta in his book writes that since Punjab was between Khyber pass and Delhi where invaders from the north west came from, Punjab was probably the most unsafe place in South Asia. As a result Punjabis had to arm themselves.

Well That's what I was saying ,It was greatness of sikh dharma not Punjabi's.
Infact one can also give credit of warrior spirit of Pathans to islam as Pathans were Budhists and at that time they were not considered as good warriors.

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That is just a myth that many liberals have brainwashed people with. Most of the (gun related) murders happen because of unlicensed guns. By making it harder for citizens to get licenses, they are letting citizens become defenseless. The British originally banned guns in India because they did not want a repeat of 1857 uprising, in other words they wanted defenseless Indians. In "independent" India, the federal government just continued these outdated laws to keep Indians defenseless and in their place.

Well I am not liberal ,but I don't beleive that it is liberal propaganda .India
is country with not so good law and order and today's youngsters don't have much control,so I don't think giving them licenesed guns and pistols is great idea.

Let me remind you ,some months back case of a Sikh girl who attacked her eve teaser with father's licenesed gun was posted on this site and almost everybody was praising her for bravery ,but the reality is that the girl was absolutely stupid.In fit of anger she committed a very henious crime.Just imagine if she was really able to shoot that boy then she should have to spent many years in prison.even without killing him the guy could have easily charged her with attempt to murder and she and her family would have been on knees and could have been offering truck load of money to that boy and police so no case would be registered against their daughter.

My point here is simple many persons here feel that injustice have been done to them,if guns and pistols are easily available to them then many could start settling their score with arms as people don't much faith in judiciary and police.

[Mithar]

kdsingh80, on 21 November 2010 - 09:49 PM, said:

Well I am not liberal ,but I don't beleive that it is liberal propaganda .India
is country with not so good law and order and today's youngsters don't have much control,so I don't think giving them licenesed guns and pistols is great idea.

Let me remind you ,some months back case of a Sikh girl who attacked her eve teaser with father's licenesed gun was posted on this site and almost everybody was praising her for bravery ,but the reality is that the girl was absolutely stupid.In fit of anger she committed a very henious crime.Just imagine if she was really able to shoot that boy then she should have to spent many years in prison.even without killing him the guy could have easily charged her with attempt to murder and she and her family would have been on knees and could have been offering truck load of money to that boy and police so no case would be registered against their daughter.

My point here is simple many persons here feel that injustice have been done to them,if guns and pistols are easily available to them then many could start settling their score with arms as people don't much faith in judiciary and police.

please read this
http://www.learnabou...-control-myths/

Edited by Mithar, 22 November 2010 - 12:29 AM.

[kdsingh80]

Mithar, on 22 November 2010 - 12:29 AM, said:

please read this
http://www.learnabou...-control-myths/

This article is written from American perspective ,not the Indian one.As i said in my previous post that India don't have good law and order .The result of allowing guns and pistol could be deadly for Indian society.

[Mithar]

kdsingh80, on 22 November 2010 - 06:51 PM, said:

This article is written from American perspective ,not the Indian one.As i said in my previous post that India don't have good law and order .The result of allowing guns and pistol could be deadly for Indian society.

Which part of the site do you not exactly agree with? as you mentioned India does not have good law and order system which is exactly the reason why responsible people in India need to have the right to protect themselves. If Sikhs in 1984 Delhi had guns the chances are very likely that less Sikhs would have died. We have been so brainwashed since childhood to think that "being armed is a bad thing", "only someone bad has a gun", "police will protect you".

http://indiansforguns.com/

Edited by Mithar, 22 November 2010 - 07:47 PM.

[kdsingh80]

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Which part of the site do you not exactly agree with?

First of all that sites talk about american constituition rights Which are not applicable to Other world.The second point I want to mention is that so many petty criminals still don't have guns or pistols.In india still many criminals still don't carry pistols because they know if that is exposed to anyone then it could land them in trouble as keeping an unlicened pistol could attract attention of police.

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which is exactly the reason why responsible people in India need to have the right to protect themselve

That is the point ,How could a shopkeeper identify that whether a person purchasing a gun is responsible? Majority of liberal ,educated people are quite coward and they will never purchase a gun.BTW if you don't know let me tell you that Air guns and air pistols are freely available in India and I have 1 0.22 bore air rifle but on the other hand air guns and air rifles are found
in very few homes as educated people are even scared of them.so there is big chance that irresponsible people will purchase more Guns than responsible one.

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If Sikhs in 1984 Delhi had guns the chances are very likely that less Sikhs would have died. We have been so brainwashed since childhood to think that "being armed is a bad thing", "only someone bad has a gun", "police will protect you".

Sikhs were very well tricked in 1984 .It is noted fact the sikhs who have weapons even kirpans were forced to surrender their weapons to police and only then mob attacked them.Sikhs especially the urban was and still are sitting duck .

As far police is concerned Indians prefer private secuirity guards and gated apartments as they consider them as safe.
for anybody

[chatanga1]

well, i have seen many replies to the topic i started a few moons ago, but i think that some people missed the point, and the one person i wanted to reply never did - Zulu, it was you who said that whoever wishes to live a warrior life could eat meat, but you never advanced your view further. maybe now is the time?

in terms of gurmat, a warrior is a person who fights battle every day against 5 chor. gurbani says also this person who defeats 5 pehlwaan is a soorma. anyone who has defeated the 5 chor is a warrior in the physical sense also, as he has lost the moh of this world.


Dhanaasaree, Fifth Mehla:
He alone is called a warrior, who is attached to the Lord's Love in this age.
Through the Perfect True Guru, he conquers his own soul, and then everything comes under his control. ||1||

Now how does one attach themselves to the Lord's love? Is it by staying in Waheguru's Bhana?

[Mystical]

Quote

In terms of gurmat, a warrior is a person who fights battle every day against 5 chor. gurbani says also this person who defeats 5 pehlwaan is a soorma. anyone who has defeated the 5 chor is a warrior in the physical sense also, as he has lost the moh of this world.


Dhanaasaree, Fifth Mehla:
He alone is called a warrior, who is attached to the Lord's Love in this age.
Through the Perfect True Guru, he conquers his own soul, and then everything comes under his control. ||1||

Now how does one attach themselves to the Lord's love? Is it by staying in Waheguru's Bhana?

This is Guru ji encouraging his Sikh to change thier psyche. Someone may be very good at fighting but if a warrior were to face someone who is of stronger charater then he can lose just out of fear. If you have mastered self then you can take a whole army as some Babay have done in the past.

Edited by Mystical, 22 September 2011 - 10:03 AM.

[chatanga1]

Mystical, on 22 September 2011 - 09:59 AM, said:

This is Guru ji encouraging his Sikh to change thier psyche. Someone may be very good at fighting but if a warrior were to face someone who is of stronger charater then he can lose just out of fear. If you have mastered self then you can take a whole army as some Babay have done in the past.

yes, and your example can be taken the other way around.

[londondajatt]

chatanga1, on 18 November 2010 - 05:30 PM, said:

In another topic, it was mentioned that only those who live the warrior lifestyle should eat meat. So what is a warrior in gurmat?

Where is this topic, and what about those who follow grihazt dharm?

Mekhane'ch Jannat, on 19 November 2010 - 02:59 PM, said:

Being a true warrior and a sant is exactly the same thing. To be a warrior and use weapons you have to first be able to control your arm consciously which controls the weapon. If you arm is moved to attack by an external force, lets say by someone swearing at you making you angry, then this is a mechanical automated response and is unconscious and robotic. A warrior means someone who has a skill and uses the skill consciously from internal direction and not from external influences. A Sant is the same because he is unaffected by external forces but his weapon is Bhagti. A person who knows how to fight but cannot control when and when not to get angry is just like a machine who has been programmed - a very dangerous machine.

Hmm but how does this equate sants and warriors?
ਸਵੈਯਾ ॥
सवैया ॥
SWAYYA

ਛਤ੍ਰੀ ਕੋ ਪੂਤ ਹੌ ਬਾਮਨ ਕੋ ਨਹਿ ਕੈ ਤਪੁ ਆਵਤ ਹੈ ਜੁ ਕਰੋ ॥ ਅਰੁ ਅਉਰ ਜੰਜਾਰ ਜਿਤੋ ਗ੍ਰਹਿ ਕੋ ਤੁਹਿ ਤਿਆਗ ਕਹਾ ਚਿਤ ਤਾ ਮੈ ਧਰੋ ॥
छत्री को पूत हौ बामन को नहि कै तपु आवत है जु करो ॥ अरु अउर जंजार जितो ग्रहि को तुहि तिआग कहा चित ता मै धरो ॥
I am the son of a Kshatriya and not of a Brahmin who may instruct for performing severe austerities; how can I absorb myself in the embarrassments of the world by leaving you;

ਅਬ ਰੀਝ ਕੈ ਦੇਹੁ ਵਹੈ ਹਮ ਕਉ ਜੋਊ ਹਉ ਬਿਨਤੀ ਕਰ ਜੋਰ ਕਰੋ ॥ ਜਬ ਆਉ ਕੀ ਅਉਧ ਨਿਦਾਨ ਬਨੈ ਅਤਿਹੀ ਰਨ ਮੈ ਤਬ ਜੂਝ ਮਰੋ ॥੨੪੮੯॥
अब रीझ कै देहु वहै हम कउ जोऊ हउ बिनती कर जोर करो ॥ जब आउ की अउध निदान बनै अतिही रन मै तब जूझ मरो ॥२४८९॥
Whatever request I am making with my folded hands, O Lord ! kindly be graceful and bestow this boon on me that when ever my end comes, then I may die fighting in the battlefield.2489.

Edited by londondajatt, 06 January 2012 - 11:11 AM.

[N30 S!NGH]

Warrior with raw tamoguni is not warrior but ruthless killer but warrior with mixture of satoguni, rajoguni and tamoguni is an warrior.

[JatherdarSahib]

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Page 1105

ਸਲੋਕ ਕਬੀਰ ॥

सलोक कबीर ॥

Salok Kabīr.

Shalok, Kabeer:

ਗਗਨ ਦਮਾਮਾ ਬਾਜਿਓ ਪਰਿਓ ਨੀਸਾਨੈ ਘਾਉ ॥

गगन दमामा बाजिओ परिओ नीसानै घाउ ॥

Gagan ḏamāmā bāji▫o pari▫o nīsānai gẖā▫o.

The battle-drum beats in the sky of the mind; aim is taken, and the wound is inflicted.

ਖੇਤੁ ਜੁ ਮਾਂਡਿਓ ਸੂਰਮਾ ਅਬ ਜੂਝਨ ਕੋ ਦਾਉ ॥੧॥

खेतु जु मांडिओ सूरमा अब जूझन को दाउ ॥१॥

Kẖeṯ jo māʼndi▫o sūrmā ab jūjẖan ko ḏā▫o. ||1||

The spiritual warriors enter the field of battle; now is the time to fight! ||1||

ਸੂਰਾ ਸੋ ਪਹਿਚਾਨੀਐ ਜੁ ਲਰੈ ਦੀਨ ਕੇ ਹੇਤ ॥

सूरा सो पहिचानीऐ जु लरै दीन के हेत ॥

Sūrā so pahicẖānī▫ai jo larai ḏīn ke heṯ.

He alone is known as a spiritual hero, who fights in defense of religion.

ਪੁਰਜਾ ਪੁਰਜਾ ਕਟਿ ਮਰੈ ਕਬਹੂ ਨ ਛਾਡੈ ਖੇਤੁ ॥੨॥੨॥

पुरजा पुरजा कटि मरै कबहू न छाडै खेतु ॥२॥२॥

Purjā purjā kat marai kabhū na cẖẖādai kẖeṯ. ||2||2||

He may be cut apart, piece by piece, but he never leaves the field of battle. ||2||2||

Edited by JatherdarSahib, 16 March 2012 - 06:53 PM.

[JatherdarSahib]