31 replies to this topic

[SikhKhoj]

Haha seen that clip.

Most Jatts-fighting-in-khets movies in our Punjab were copied from Pakistani Punjabi movies.

There are quite a few Pak Punjabi dramas and movies but not many channels (2-4)

[chatanga1]

dalsingh101, on 17 May 2011 - 09:43 PM, said:

One of the things I found interesting is the author's analysis of why the Brits initially tried to push Urdu as the formal state language for communication after their invasion.

One thing i discovered after seraching about Panjabi language was that it is at much older than Urdu. Urdu is only 2 or 3 centuries old. It was created in UP or Bihar, by the persian speakers mixing in thier vocubalary with the native hindi. Now this seems to me to be a good reason for what DalSingh is saying that why did the muslims take this language over their own mother tongue, and it seems to come down to a common theme amongst muslims, that you are either with the ummah or the kafir.

Also another reason may be that with this language being created by the muslim elite, those who eschew the notion of the ummah or khalifah it would be better digested. You know, it kinda like "their" language.

The panjabi pakistani who rubbished panjabi, said that Urdu was the original langauge of panjab and that panjabi developed from it. So if this is what they are taught in schools in pakistan, you can undersdtand the apathy towards panjabi language.

[SikhKhoj]

Urdu belongs to UP originally.

Problem is, our Punjabis are becoming Sanskritised while the Pakistanis are becoming Persianised/Arabicised in knowledge of the Punjabi language. We got to preserve our sabhyacharak pehchaan and ithaas (cultural identity and history).

Edited by SikhKhoj, 24 May 2011 - 06:54 PM.

[Mithar]

SikhKhoj, on 24 May 2011 - 06:51 PM, said:

Urdu belongs to UP originally.

Problem is, our Punjabis are becoming Sanskritised while the Pakistanis are becoming Persianised/Arabicised in knowledge of the Punjabi language. We got to preserve our sabhyacharak pehchaan and ithaas (cultural identity and history).

while Sankritised and Persianised is true for Punjabi in East and West Punjab, but in the diaspora, Punjabi language is increasingly becoming Englishised.

[dalsingh101]

Quote

Problem is, our Punjabis are becoming Sanskritised while the Pakistanis are becoming Persianised/Arabicised in knowledge of the Punjabi language. We got to preserve our sabhyacharak pehchaan and ithaas (cultural identity and history).

Truth is, I don't really see a strong will in the Sikh Panjabi community to preserve and use their language. I don't think the mass of young Panjabis think it important to learn the language to any significant depth even in Panjab. As one desi guy said to me in the Gurdwara, "Panjabis will employ one bhaiyya in their house and thee whole family will learn Hindi. Yet the bhaiyya will never bother to speak Panjabi.

I think our sabhyacharak pehchaan is in flux right now. I don't know where it will end. From what I see the language is likely to be dead here in the UK in 2/3 generations. Already hordes of the 3rd generation can't speak it or do so very poorly.

Unless we have something that makes learning Panjabi fashionable and enjoyable soon, I can't see this trend changing. I wonder ewhat the situation in Canada and the US is?

[chatanga1]

dalsingh101, on 25 May 2011 - 09:20 AM, said:

As one desi guy said to me in the Gurdwara, "Panjabis will employ one bhaiyya in their house and thee whole family will learn Hindi. Yet the bhaiyya will never bother to speak Panjabi.

lets revivie some old threads!!!

i worked at my mothers factory in the college holidays, and there was from the indian women, 8 panjabis and 1 gujrati. She spoke to me in hindi and i couldnt understand a flippin word she said. Then she scolded me for not understanding hindi. Of course i had to get all her nonsense interpreted for me by one of the panjabis, but she really pisssed me off, cos she would never talk in panjabi to all the other women there, but they would always talkin hindi to her. It felt to me like we were bending over backwards for her, but she couldnt care less about us.

I think that was the time i actually became a panjabi lingual activist, if there is such a term.

[SURYADEV]

chatanga1, on 12 May 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

I think that was the time i actually became a panjabi lingual activist, if there is such a term.

well you've coined the phrase now.

So what are the ideals of a PANJABI LINGUAL ACTIVIST?
What is the ultimate goal of the PLA? (sounds like some terror organisation)
By what methods does a PLA achieve their goals?
How do we go about creating awareness and then greater activism?
If you are the boss of the PLA how do I nominate myself for meeth-pardhan?

[SURYADEV]

One way we may be able to get wider audience for Panjabi is to publish high quality themed books on Panjabi poetry. I'm thinking along the lines of original love/philosophical poems in Panjabi translated into English. Think of the works of Rumi, Khalil Gibran, Tagore etc etc.
There must be an audience for this type of literature , whether Punjabis or non Indians. Once they fall in love with the translated works maybe they will want to study the original texts in its native language.
#Just look at the amount of love stories we have : Heer ranjah, Sassi Punno , the list goes on .

Then there is the works of Gurbani which is about the ultimate expression of love and passion. What a way to increase awareness and knowledge of Panjabi AND spread the spiritual message of Guru Nanak!

[SURYADEV]

SikhKhoj, on 24 May 2011 - 06:51 PM, said:

Problem is, our Punjabis are becoming Sanskritised while the Pakistanis are becoming Persianised/Arabicised in knowledge of the Punjabi language. We got to preserve our sabhyacharak pehchaan and ithaas (cultural identity and history).

If panjabi is becoming sanskritised, then isn't it just going back to its original form; its own mother-tongue? That can only be a good thing IMO.

[SURYADEV]

another thing...
to start off with we can have local reading group get togethers where we recite panjabi poetry, stories even plays. Eventually , individuals can write and perform their own works.
Have fortnightly/monthly meet ups to perform; meet and greet new people - maybe find a wife (note to self)- , get the sikh channels to broadcast some of these programmes as opposed to the current obbsession with vasakhi nagar kirtans from around the world.
Once every year we can have a inter/national meet up........

Just think guys.....what could we achieve.......................

[SURYADEV]

Just replace her name with Mrs Kaur, her language as Panjabi (Gurmukhi), her tribe as Panjabi. And this my fellows is the exact report your great, great grandhildren will be reading in years to come:
http://www.bbc.co.uk...d-asia-17537845
Nepal's mystery language on the verge of extinction
By Bimal GautamBBC News, Nepal
Gyani Maiya Sen, a 75-year-old woman from western Nepal, can perhaps be forgiven for feeling that the weight of the world rests on her shoulders.

She is the only person still alive in Nepal who fluently speaks the Kusunda language. The unknown origins and mysterious sentence structures of Kusunda have long baffled linguists.

As such, she has become a star attraction for campaigners eager to preserve her dying tongue.

Madhav Prasad Pokharel, a professor of linguistics at Nepal's Tribhuwan University, has spent a decade researching the vanishing Kusunda tribe.

Professor Pokharel describes Kusunda as a "language isolate", not related to any common language of the world.

"There are about 20 language families in the world," he said, "among them are the Indo-European, Sino-Tibetan and Austro-Asiatic group of languages.

"Kusunda stands out because it is not phonologically, morphologically, syntactically and lexically related to any other languages of the world.
'Very sad'
He warns that if the Kusunda language becomes extinct, "a unique and important part of our human heritage will be lost forever".

Even if some of the lofty intellectual arguments for preserving the Kusunda language are lost on Ms Sen, she is acutely aware of how its demise affects her personally.

"Fortunately I can also speak Nepali, but I feel very sad for not being able to speak my own language with people from my own community," she said.

"Although there are still other people from the Kusunda tribe still alive, they neither understand nor speak the language.

"Other Kusunda people... can only speak a few Kusunda words, but can't communicate [fully] in the language."

Ms Sen fears there will be no-one to speak the Kusunda language after her death.

"The Kusunda language will die with me," she reflects, while lamenting the failure of the government and academics to help transfer the language to the next generation.

Although no detailed figures are available, the Central Bureau of Statistics says that only about 100 Kusunda tribespeople remain - but only Ms Sen can speak the language fluently.

A few years ago, there were two other people - from a mid-western Nepalese village - who spoke the Kusunda language fluently.

They were Puni Thakuri and her daughter Kamala Khatri.

But since then Puni Thakuri has died and Kamala has left the country in search of a job.

Ms Sen - despite her age - still ekes out a living as a stone-crusher. But outside of the workplace she finds that she is increasingly in demand from linguistics students wanting to learn the Kusunda language with her help.

They are documenting it in a bid to keep this rare language alive.

Researchers have so far identified three vowels and 15 consonants in the Kusunda language.
Threat to tribe
The Kusunda tribe to which Ms Sen belongs is nomadic. As hunters and gatherers, they live in huts in the jungle and carry bows and arrows to hunt wild animals.

While the males of the tribe hunt, women and children stay at home and search for wild fruits.

The Kusunda - a short and sturdy people - refer to themselves by the word "myak" in their language. They kill monitor lizards ("pui") and wild fowls ("tap").

Linguists and tribal campaigners are now demanding that the government introduce specific programmes to uplift the Kusunda tribe and protect their language.

But no such policy is on the cards, at least in immediate future.

"We do not have any specific programme to preserve this language," admitted Narayan Regmi, spokesperson of the Ministry of Culture.

The National Ethnographic Museum had meanwhile conducted a study on 10 different Nepalese ethnic groups including the Kusunda.

Its research has reached a grim conclusion. The entire Kusunda tribe is on the verge of disappearing along with its last fluent speaker in Nepal.

[chatanga1]

SURYADEV, on 12 May 2012 - 09:36 PM, said:

well you've coined the phrase now.

So what are the ideals of a PANJABI LINGUAL ACTIVIST?
What is the ultimate goal of the PLA? (sounds like some terror organisation)
By what methods does a PLA achieve their goals?
How do we go about creating awareness and then greater activism?
If you are the boss of the PLA how do I nominate myself for meeth-pardhan?

ermmm. i'll back to you with those. in the meantime dont give up your day job.

[dalsingh101]

Quote

I think that was the time i actually became a panjabi lingual activist, if there is such a term.

I think I am already one!

[chatanga1]

Cool Dal Singh JI, with you on the team, we gonna do something.

[dalsingh101]

Okay, as you're keen, was thinking of translating and typing up (in Gurmukhi) this Panjabi newspaper article. Interesting one about the relationship between Sikhi and Panjabi culture.

Let me know if you are up for it. No doubt we'll improve our typing speeds and learn a few words. Then we post it on this forum and SS, in both the original Gurmukhi and our translation.

???