18 replies to this topic

[JatherdarSahib]

WJKK WJKFji

According to some scholars Dasam granth was taken out of akal takht in 1940s and it was understood that this establishes raj yog for the sikh panth. For whatever reason the sgpc and all 5 takhts agree that dasam granth is bani, and that only a sikh can believe it anyone who challenges it is tankhian. There will never be khalsa raj until dasam granth is put back in akal takht. What can we do to have dasam granth put back into the akal takht?


WJKK WJKFji

[Satgyan-pujari]

JatherdarSahib, on 07 September 2011 - 05:29 PM, said:

WJKK WJKFji

According to some scholars Dasam granth was taken out of akal takht in 1940s and it was understood that this establishes raj yog for the sikh panth. For whatever reason the sgpc and all 5 takhts agree that dasam granth is bani, and that only a sikh can believe it anyone who challenges it is tankhian. There will never be khalsa raj until dasam granth is put back in akal takht. What can we do to have dasam granth put back into the akal takht?


WJKK WJKFji

Good question veerji, maybe the Singh Sabha Reformist Sikhs can shed some light on the reasons and causes of these events, and what actions should be implemented to reverse them.

Edited by Satgyan-pujari, 10 September 2011 - 11:09 AM.

[chatanga1]

Satgyan-pujari, on 10 September 2011 - 11:08 AM, said:

Good question veerji, maybe the Singh Sabha Reformist Sikhs can shed some light on the reasons and causes of these events, and what actions should be implemented to reverse them.

They dont need to shed light on anything, they have already made their decision, what we need to do is start a program to work towards restoration of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib, sheddong light on why it should be there.

It can be done, for 2 decades at least no tanti saaj was played regularly in Sri Darbar Sahib, but now it is played very regularly, because some Sikhs who were promoting Gurmat Sangeet met with the Jathedaars and requested a program for tanti-saaj to be introduced again to Sri Darbar Sahib.

The Jathedaars of the 2 Takht Sahib should take a step in getting this done. If Sri Dasam was restored to Sri Akal Takht Sahib, then it would go a long way to countering the nuisance of anti-dasam fools.

Edited by chatanga1, 11 September 2011 - 07:49 PM.

[Mithar]

Satgyan-pujari, on 10 September 2011 - 11:08 AM, said:

Good question veerji, maybe the Singh Sabha Reformist Sikhs can shed some light on the reasons and causes of these events, and what actions should be implemented to reverse them.

I'm not a reformist, but I can tell you the perspective of the the Singh Sabhiyas on this issue. The Singh Sabhiyas were Dasam Granth supporters, we know this from their writings. But the question is why did they not support doing Parkash of Sri Dasam Granth at Akal Takht. The reason is because the Dasam Bani was originally in separate pothis. It was composed into a single Granth by Bhai Mani Singh Jee. So from this we can deduce that Dasam Bani in the form of a single Granth (Dasam Granth) was not there during the time of Guru Gobind Singh Jee even though Dasam Bani was in existence in separate pothis. So doing Prakash of Dasam Granth alongside with SGGSJ can be seen is an innovation by Sikhs. Being a supporter of Sri Dasam Granth does not automatically make you a supporter of doing Prakash of Dasam Granth. You can be a staunch Dasam Granth supporter and not support such innovations.

[chatanga1]

Mithar, on 11 September 2011 - 05:04 PM, said:

So doing Prakash of Dasam Granth alongside with SGGSJ can be seen is an innovation by Sikhs.

yes brother, but this was accepted by Guru-Panth centuries ago, with no argument until recent times.

I have personally thought that the Singh-Sabha did not fully understand the intricacies of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib, and this can be seen by their version of Benti Chaupee, which ends on verse 25, because verse 26 begins " kirpa karo hum par Jag Mata", and they have taken this to mean the Goddess. Only upto verse 25 is read in Sri darbar Sahib. I think that as some hindu-phobics get scared by the chaubis avtar, some scholars got scared of certain words in Sri Dasam and cut it in places as seen in Benti Chaupee.

The tat gyan of such granths comes from the samprdayes or taksal, and i dont think the Singh Sabha scholars were from any of these.

[chatanga1]

Mithar, on 11 September 2011 - 05:04 PM, said:

The reason is because the Dasam Bani was originally in separate pothis.

Ive just been looking at Patshahi 10 org (in your signature) and they have on that a bir of Sri Dasam from 1698, which is naturally excluding zafarnama, and mitr pyare nu, as they chronologically came years later.

So was Sri Dasam in pothis only, or were there a handful of saroops here and there?

[Mithar]

chatanga1, on 11 September 2011 - 08:13 PM, said:

yes brother, but this was accepted by Guru-Panth centuries ago, with no argument until recent times.

It was accepted, but it is an innovation none the less. Personally, my view is that I'm not for or against it.

chatanga1, on 11 September 2011 - 08:13 PM, said:

I have personally thought that the Singh-Sabha did not fully understand the intricacies of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib, and this can be seen by their version of Benti Chaupee, which ends on verse 25, because verse 26 begins " kirpa karo hum par Jag Mata", and they have taken this to mean the Goddess. Only upto verse 25 is read in Sri darbar Sahib. I think that as some hindu-phobics get scared by the chaubis avtar, some scholars got scared of certain words in Sri Dasam and cut it in places as seen in Benti Chaupee.

This is a common misconception about why Singh Sabhiyas did not read Kirpa Kari ham par Jag Mata when reading Choupi Sahib. The reason they don't read it is because the subject matter from 1 to 25 is the same. It changes from 26th pouri where it is clearly referring to Charitro Pakhyan Granth. While Choupi Sahib is a part of Charitro Pakhyan in Sri Dasam Granth, but it was composed separately. I beleive there is even a Gurdwara in existence where Chaupi Sahib was composed. This is similar to Zafarnama which although is a part of the Hakayats in Sri Dasam Granth, but it was composed separately from the Hikayats.

Edited by Mithar, 13 September 2011 - 01:21 AM.

[Mithar]

chatanga1, on 11 September 2011 - 08:17 PM, said:

Ive just been looking at Patshahi 10 org (in your signature) and they have on that a bir of Sri Dasam from 1698, which is naturally excluding zafarnama, and mitr pyare nu, as they chronologically came years later.

So was Sri Dasam in pothis only, or were there a handful of saroops here and there?

As per traditional Sikh history, Sri Dasam Granth was composed into a single volume by Bhai Mani Singh Jee. I don't know about the authenticity of how old that Granth is. But it may be possible that some Sikh may have composed it into a single granth earlier but it was not prevalent otherwise why would Bhai Mani Singh Jee have to painstakingly do the job himself.

[londondajatt]

chatanga1, on 11 September 2011 - 01:48 PM, said:

They dont need to shed light on anything, they have already made their decision, what we need to do is start a program to work towards restoration of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib, sheddong light on why it should be there.

It can be done, for 2 decades at least no tanti saaj was played regularly in Sri Darbar Sahib, but now it is played very regularly, because some Sikhs who were promoting Gurmat Sangeet met with the Jathedaars and requested a program for tanti-saaj to be introduced again to Sri Darbar Sahib.

The Jathedaars of the 2 Takht Sahib should take a step in getting this done. If Sri Dasam was restored to Sri Akal Takht Sahib, then it would go a long way to countering the nuisance of anti-dasam fools.

Perhaps it is only the Akalis Nihangs that can do this job?

[chatanga1]

londondajatt, on 13 September 2011 - 10:21 AM, said:

Perhaps it is only the Akalis Nihangs that can do this job?

perhaps, but unlikely.

[JatherdarSahib]

Isn't the use of electricity, lights, coolers, fans, televisions, mics, cameras, a/c in gurdwaras innvoation as well? We need to move forward take the past and move with it into the future to define it. Dasam Bani can be done prakash in a separate room or have a border set up then.

[londondajatt]

they will destroy the kshatri dharam in the panth by removing Dasam Granth Sahib!

[chatanga1]

londondajatt, on 19 December 2011 - 10:36 AM, said:

they will destroy the kshatri dharam in the panth by removing Dasam Granth Sahib!

The main ones who will destroy Kshatri dharam in the panth are the Kshatris themselves, by acting like they are Kshatris and not Kshatris when it suits them.

[N30 S!NGH]

chatanga1, on 19 December 2011 - 02:02 PM, said:

The main ones who will destroy Kshatri dharam in the panth are the Kshatris themselves, by acting like they are Kshatris and not Kshatris when it suits them.

Priceless comment...parchand sat !!!

[jaikaara]

the kshatris had foresaken kshatri dharam and the Khalsa had to input the kshatri dharam into all. the kshatris r the most usless creatures since they twirl their moustaches in front of the the castes which they consider lower and offer their daughers to the turaks so that they can keep their joy and merry making gonig on .