33 replies to this topic

[dalsingh101]

Jathedar, the whole point is to develop our Panjabi grammar and vocabulary skills. Not just puke out an English translation. Please help with individual words if you can.

[dalsingh101]

Chatanga, you're a gem!

(1)I still can't find a definition of kalvutti??? Where did you get 'misery, distress' from ?
(2)Also we need to nail this word[s?] ਨੀਂਦ ਦਰਦਾ - Have I got it wrong? Is he saying something else?
(3) What about ਸਣੇਓੜਾ ? Is it possible related to ਸਨੇਹ = love, affection, friendship, attachment, sympathy, tenderness ??
(4) Why do you think it is ਜਾਈਂ ਜਾਈਂ and not ਚਾਈਂ ਚਾਈਂ which is apparently an adjective meaning = cheerfully, eagerly, fervently, warmly

I want us to be technical to an anally retentive extent about the words here, not vague about the meanings. lol. It's my own form of OCD I guess, but it is the best way to really nail the language, so endure!


Storing these words for when we deal with them, great finds man!!

ਕੁੜੱਤਣ - bitterness

ਡਲ਼੍ਹਕ - glitter, shine, sheen, lustre, radiance; pain or fatigue in the eye when exposed to strong light

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Here is your edited version of verse 1:

ਮੈਂ ਸੋਹਣੀ, ਮੈਂ ਗੋਰੀ ਗੋਰੀ, ਤੂੰ ਕਾਲੀ ਕਲਵਟੀ! ਮੈਂ ਨੀਂਦ ਦਰਦਾ ਸੁਖ ਸਣੇਓੜਾ– ਤੂੰ ਜਗਰਾਤੇ ਪੱਟੀ।
ਤੇ ਜਿਸ ਵੇਲੇ ਮੈਂ ਜਾਈਂ ਜਾਈਂ ਚੰਨੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਛਲਕਾਂ, ਕਿਹੜਾ ਸਾਂਭੇ ਮੇਰੇ ਲਿਸ਼ਕਾਂ, ਕੌਣ ਸੰਭਾਲੇ ਡਲਕਾਂ।
ਰੰਗ ਮੇਰਾ ਵੀ ਮੱਖਣ ਵਰਗਾ, ਰੂਪ ਵੀ ਮੇਰਾ ਸੁਚਾ, ਦੁੱਧ ਮਲਾਈ ਮਾ ਪਿਓ ਮੇਰੇ – ਮੇਰਾ ਅਸਲਾ ਉਚਾ।
ਜਿਹੜਾ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਰਿੱੜਕਣ ਬੈਟੇ, ਉਸਦੇ ਵਾਰੀ ਜਾਵਾਂ, ਕੜਕੇ ਢੋਲ ਮਧਾਣੀ ਵਾਲਾ, ਮੈਂ ਵਿਚ ਭੰਗੜਾ ਪਾਵਾਂ।
ਮੈਂ ਲੋਕਾਂ ਦੀ ਸੇਹਤ ਬਣਾਂਵਾਂ, ਓਹ ਤੂੰ ਵੀ ਸੇਹਤ ਬਿਗਾੜੇ, ਮੈਂ ਵੀ ਠੰਢ ਕਲੈਜੇ ਪਾਵਾਂ ਤੂੰ ਵੀ ਸੀਨੇ ਸਾੜੇ॥

Here is stab 1 of the translation:


Lassi said to tea:

I’m beautiful, I’m fair, so fair. You’re a black ?kalvutti?! I sleep in a peaceful ?suneyora? – whilst you were uprooted throughout the night
And when I cheerfully spill forth in the moonlight, who will protect my lustre, who will maintain
My complexion too, is like butter, my form too is pure, milk and cream my father and mother – my pedigree is exalted
I turn towards those who sit and churn me; the drum of the churning stick echoes and I perform dance within

I make folks healthy, O whereas you ruin health, I bring coolness to the heart, whereas bodies are scorched by you

What you think?

We'll deal with verse 2 after we nail this one. I had a look at your transcription (of verse 2) earlier and it looks good!

Edited by dalsingh101, 12 February 2012 - 01:47 PM.

[SURYADEV]

KALVATTI.
I thought I'd heard that word before somewhere, but just realised its the word KOLAVERI.
As in 'Why this kolaveri di?'
Thise is where I 've heard it:

LOL

[chatanga1]

dalsingh101, on 12 February 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

(1)I still can't find a definition of kalvutti??? Where did you get 'misery, distress' from ?

from my rents, my mothers knowledge of puniabi is amazing, even though she never went to school and a very old dictionary i found in the library which was written in 1908, and so contains a lot of words which were persian orientated which we dont hear so much these days.

dalsingh101, on 12 February 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

(2)Also we need to nail this word[s?] ਨੀਂਦ ਦਰਦਾ - Have I got it wrong? Is he saying something else?
(3) What about ਸਣੇਓੜਾ ? Is it possible related to ਸਨੇਹ = love, affection, friendship, attachment, sympathy, tenderness ??

What he is saying is that lassi brings messages (sukh)of peace (sunoura),, i think uits just another way to say suneha, which means peace,

nindran is hindi for sleep, we say in punjabi neend

dalsingh101, on 12 February 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

(4) Why do you think it is ਜਾਈਂ ਜਾਈਂ and not ਚਾਈਂ ਚਾਈਂ which is apparently an adjective meaning = cheerfully, eagerly, fervently, warmly

it just sounds like jajja instead of chacha, but i could be wrong.

dalsingh101, on 12 February 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

I want us to be technical to an anally retentive extent about the words here,

Now you're scaring me!

Edited by chatanga1, 12 February 2012 - 02:44 PM.

[dalsingh101]

Quote

from my rents, my mothers knowledge of puniabi is amazing, even though she never went to school and a very old dictionary i found in the library which was written in 1908, and so contains a lot of words which were persian orientated which we dont hear so much these days.

What an awesome find! You should scan or photo it and turn it into an ebook one day! I've got this massive old dictionary as well.

Quote

What he is saying is that lassi brings messages (sukh)of peace (sunoura),, i think uits just another way to say suneha, which means peace,

Did you get this from your moms too? I take it your mum is from back home, I thought you was 3rd generation with vlathee parents before. Now I understand!

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nindran is hindi for sleep, we say in punjabi neend

Okay I'll listen again later tonight more carefully and check.

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it just sounds like jajja instead of chacha, but i could be wrong.

See above.

Quote

Now you're scaring me!

Don't be scared. It's not any gay shit! lol

I was talking about compulsively pursuing a subject ala Freud - Read this.

Edited by dalsingh101, 12 February 2012 - 03:04 PM.

[dalsingh101]

By the way:


Your transcription attempt: -

ਚਾਹ ਕਹਿੰਦੀ ਪੈ ਗਈ ਏਨੀ ਮਾਈ ਭੱਗੋ, ਮੇਰੇ ਮੱਗਰ ਤਗਾਣੇ,
ਤਾ ਮੇਰੇ ਸੁਰਖੀਆ ਭਰਦੇ ਜਿਹੜੇ, ਉਹੋ ਲੋਕ ਸਿਆਣੇ,
ਮੇਰਾ ਹੁਸਨ ਪਛਾਨਨ ਜਿਹੜੇ ਦਿਲ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਠਗਾਂ,
ਮੇਰਾ ਰੰਗ ਕਲਿੱਖਨ ਉੱਤੇ ਲਈਲਾ ਵਰਗਾ ਲੱਗਾ



Here's mine:

ਪੈ ਗਈ, ਪੈ ਗਈ ਇਹ ਨੀ ਮਾਈ ਭਗੋ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਗਰ ਤਗਾਣੇ, ਤੇ ਮੇਰੀਆਂ ਸੁਰਕੀਆ ਭਰਦੇ ਜਿਹੜੇ ਉਹੁ ਲੋਕ ਸਿਆਣੇ।
ਮੇਰੇ ਹੁਸਨ ਪਚਾਣਨ ਜਿਹੜੇ ਦਿੱਲ ਮੈਂ ਓਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਠੱਗਾਂ, ਮੇਰਾ ਰੰਗ ਕਲਿਕਰ ਉੱਤੇ- ਲੈਲਾਂ ਵਰਗੀ ਲਗਾਂ।1.38
ਤੇ ਪਿੰਡੇ ਦੀ ਮੈਂ ਪੀੜ ਗਵਾਵਾਂ ਜਦੋਂ ਥਕੇ ਮੈਂ ਪੋਰਾਂ, ਤੇ ਠਰੇਆਂ ਹੋਏਆਂ ਚੂਸੇਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਮੈਂ ਮਿੱਠੀਆਂ ਕਰਾਂ ਟਕੋਰਾਂ।1.43
ਤੂੰ ਇਹ ਕੰਘ, ਜ਼ੁਕਾਮ ਤੇ ਨਜ਼ਲਾਂ ਕੀ ਮੈਂ ਗਿਣ ਗਿਣ ਦੱਸਾਂ, ਮੇਰੇ ਨਿਗੇ

This is just a heads up for later. Finish your Gurmukhi transliteration it, but we wont get into verse 2 fully until we've nailed verse 1!

We'll do this systematically.

I finding this a very good way to increase vocabulary myself (especially colloquial terms). This way seems more productive than what we were doing before with randomly listing unconnected words in that vocabulary thread we had going on a while back. What you think?

Edited by dalsingh101, 12 February 2012 - 03:04 PM.

[dalsingh101]

Okay, our latest joint version of verse 1:

ਲੱਸੀ ਚਾਹ ਨੂੰ ਕਹਿੰਦੀ ਹੈ:

ਮੈਂ ਸੋਹਣੀ, ਮੈਂ ਗੋਰੀ ਗੋਰੀ, ਤੂੰ ਕਾਲੀ ਕਲਵਟੀ! ਮੈਂ ਨੀਂਦਰ ਦਾ ਸੁਖ ਸਣੇਓੜਾ – ਤੂੰ ਜਗਰਾਤੇ ਪੱਟੀ।
ਤੇ ਜਿਸ ਵੇਲੇ ਮੈਂ ਚਾਈਂ ਚਾਈਂ ਚੰਨੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਛਲਕਾਂ, ਕਿਹੜਾ ਸਾਂਭੇ ਮੇਰੀਆਂ ਲਿਸ਼ਕਾਂ, ਕੌਣ ਸੰਭਾਲੇ ਡਲ੍ਹਕਾਂ।
ਰੰਗ ਮੇਰਾ ਵੀ ਮੱਖਣ ਵਰਗਾ, ਰੂਪ ਵੀ ਮੇਰਾ ਸੁਚਾ, ਦੁੱਧ ਮਲਾਈ ਮਾ ਪਿਓ ਮੇਰੇ – ਮੇਰਾ ਅਸਲਾ ਉਚਾ।
ਜਿਹੜਾ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਰਿੜਕਣ ਬੈਟੇ, ਉਸ ਦੇ ਵਾਰੀ ਜਾਵਾਂ, ਕੜਕੇ ਢੋਲ ਮਧਾਣੀ ਵਾਲਾ, ਮੈਂ ਵਿਚ ਭੰਗੜੇ ਪਾਵਾਂ।
ਮੈਂ ਲੋਕਾਂ ਦੀ ਸੇਹਤ ਬਣਾਂਵਾਂ, ਓਹ ਤੂੰ ਵੀ ਸੇਹਤ ਬਿਗਾੜੇ, ਮੈਂ ਭੀ ਠੰਢ ਕਲੈਜੇ ਪਾਵਾਂ ਤੂੰਭੀ ਸੀਨੇ ਸਾੜੇ॥


Lassi said to tea:

I’m beautiful, I’m fair, so fair. You are a dark misery. I’m the peaceful message of sleep – whilst you uproot throughout the night – not sure of how to translate patti here?


And when I cheerfully spill forth in the moonlight, who will care for my glitter, who will preserve my lustre? Sounds like chien chien to me plus the meaning corresponds to the earlier use of liskhaan!


And my complexion is like butter, my form too is pure. Milk and cream are my father and mother – my pedigree is exalted

I am a sacrifice to those who sit and churn me; the drum of the churning stick booms and I dance within – not sure of vari jaavaan here, used ‘vari jana’ as in ‘a sacrifice to’ from the PU online dictionary


I make folks healthy, O where you ruin health, I bring a coolness to the heart, whereas you’ve scorched bodies – I think kaleja can also mean liver

[chatanga1]

dalsingh101, on 15 February 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

I’m beautiful, I’m fair, so fair. You are a dark misery. I’m the peaceful message of sleep – whilst you uproot throughout the night – not sure of how to translate patti here?


I am a sacrifice to those who sit and churn me; the drum of the churning stick booms and I dance within – not sure of vari jaavaan here, used ‘vari jana’ as in ‘a sacrifice to’ from the PU online dictionary


I make folks healthy, O where you ruin health, I bring a coolness to the heart, whereas you’ve scorched bodies – I think kaleja can also mean liver

Patti means to uproot, or disturb, here i think the kavi is saying that tea dsitrubs the sleep, hence the jagrata, staying up all night.

vari jana, is sacrifice

kaleja means heart .

remember that punjabi song:#

[dalsingh101]

Cool! Looks like we are on track with verse 1! As for the word kaalja, I agree it means heart here, but it can also mean liver. Check on the online dictionaries if you don't believe me! As for THE (old school and slightly sleezy song) which popularised the word over the more often used 'dil' in the UK, cop a load of this!



Ahhh.....memories......more innocent times...


Anyway shera, we'll come back to fine tuning verse later (maybe when we go over teh whole thing again at the end?).

Now on to verse 2! Which I took the liberty of completing (as you were so slow! lol).I took feedback off your partially completed one and adjusted mine accordingly. Unknown words are in red:

Quote

ਚਾਹ ਕਹਿੰਦੀ:

ਪੈ ਗਈ, ਪੈ ਗਈ ਇਹ ਨੀ ਮਾਈ ਭਗੋ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਗਰ ਤਗਾਣੇ, ਤੇ ਮੇਰੀਆਂ ਸੁਰਕੀਆ ਭਰਦੇ ਜਿਹੜੇ ਉਹੁ ਲੋਕ ਸਿਆਣੇ।

ਮੇਰੇ ਹੁਸਨ ਪਛਾਣਨ ਜਿਹੜੇ, ਦਿੱਲ ਮੈਂ ਓਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਠੱਗਾਂ, ਮੇਰਾ ਰੰਗ ਕਲਿੱਖਨ ਉੱਤੇ- ਲੈਲਾਂ ਵਰਗੀ ਲਗਾਂ।1.38

ਤੇ ਪਿੰਡੇ ਦੀ ਮੈਂ ਪੀੜ ਗਵਾਵਾਂ ਜਦੋਂ ਥਕੇ ਮੈਂ ਪੋਰਾਂ, ਤੇ ਠਰੇਆਂ ਹੋਏਆਂ ਚੂਸੇਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਮੈਂ ਮਿੱਠੀਆਂ ਕਰਾਂ ਟਕੋਰਾਂ।1.43

ਤੂੰ ਇਹ ਕੰਘ, ਜ਼ੁਕਾਮ ਤੇ ਨਜ਼ਲਾਂ ਕੀ ਮੈਂ ਗਿਣ ਗਿਣ ਦੱਸਾਂ, ਮੇਰੇ ਨਿਗੇ ਕੋਟੂ ਤਾਰਨ ਚੜ੍ਹੀਆਂ ਹੋਈਆਂ ਕੱਸਾਂ।

ਤੇ ਕੱਜੀ ਰਹੋ ਤੂੰ ਕੁਜੇ ਅੰਦਰ ਤੇਨੂੰ ਕੀ ਤਕਲੀਫਾਂ, ਜੇ ਮੈਂ ਸੋਹਣੀਆਂ ਮੇਜ਼ਾਂ ਉਤੇ ਰਖਾਂ ਪਈ ਤਸ਼ਰੀਫ਼ਾਂ॥

[SURYADEV]

Tagane= isn't that the black thread with tiny silver bells on it that is tied around a baby's waist? I'm sure it sound very much like that word.
the last highlighted word CHOOSIA'N = to suck on something, like a lollipop.

[dalsingh101]

I find the idea that Mai Bhago is used in a symbolic way as a testy and harsh women by Muslim sources quite fascinating!

[dalsingh101]

What happened Chatanga? Had enough all ready?

[chatanga1]

dalsingh101, on 24 February 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

What happened Chatanga? Had enough all ready?

hehehehehe, no bro, just got a little busy trying to get some things done for gurdwara, should have done them ages ago, but never got round to it.

i will have a look at doing some more on tuesday. note i havent said which tuesday.

[chatanga1]

dalsingh101, on 12 February 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

ਤੂੰ ਇਹ ਕੰਘ, ਜ਼ੁਕਾਮ ਤੇ ਨਜ਼ਲਾਂ ਕੀ ਮੈਂ ਗਿਣ ਗਿਣ ਦੱਸਾਂ, ਮੇਰੇ ਨਿਗੇ

just one change here the kaka for kangh, should be Khakha for Khangh(cough)

[chatanga1]

here goes, heres upto 2:57 minutes :


A~gy l~sI kihMdI AwpxI zwq kuiV~qn hovy qy imSrI nwl l~lVIey
nI kl mUXy, kOVIey, q~qIey, BYVIey, nKry, sVIey
nw koeI sIrq, nw koeI sUrq, mUMh nw koeI m~Qw,
qUM qw ieMj jw ByjI ijaU ijn phwVo l~Qw
qw mYNnU puC hkIkq ApnI bxI iPrdI qMU rwxI
SUM SUM krdw, hOauky Brdw kOVw q~qw pwxI