30 replies to this topic

[JatherdarSahib]

In the animal jungle we have creatures who are meat eaters Carnivore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore), eat everything Omnivore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnivore) and Eat plants Herbivore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbivore)

Now when we look at saliva, stomach acid and teeth set of all creatures we can decide which one they fit into. Humans can not eat meat naturally if you put a goat and an apple in front of a todler, the todler will play with the goat probably name it and eat the apple. The teeth set of a human are not strong enough to bite through flesh raw, or saliva that of a tigers or stomach acid to digest it. If humans were to eat animals raw they will catch several diseases and die we have some history of attempts and deaths.

Now the cellular structure of plants and animals are different that Herbivores have the capacity to digest plants, however humans were clever to invent food technology we cook the meat of creatures until the cell structures are slightly damaged that we can consume the animal. Even with the human body at certain point such as starvation we end up consuming our own fat and muscle fibres a bit like how we consume other animals.

We brought various animals into our food technology plot bread them, and eat them. While we can't eat every animal due to dangers such as some fish so people learnt the poisonous parts cut away eat it. Food technology has helped us but has brought us problems from refining certain things. We learn from the human organs such as the appendix humans once used to eat grass. When we look at the pimate family we find the trend in apes who eat fruits and veg. The problem we are facing today is to do with certain geographical locations which have low sunlight intensity such as the uk which was in an ice age when it melted people migrated, so due to that milk from cows are not strong enough, crops and vegetations are low malnourished. Other places which is too hot were we face deserts we find a lack of crops, so people in desperation turned to poultry. Now today some are debating that the origin of various illnesses is to do with meat consumption which is against some of our function. Even carnivores seek fibre from certain plants themselves tigers have to eat grass for fibre.

The problems we are facing with poultry industry is we have resulted in producing diseases such as foot and mouth, mad cow disease, bird flu, swine flu, e-coli we created problems with mercury dumping into fish supplies and effected the food web and food chain. We saw a rise in animal cruelty and other issues to the eco system. Also through meat eating humans wiped out the dodo bird, which we replaced with chickens (Gallus gallus domesticus) which came from China approx 6000BC and we bread. Now some philosophers argue that the unnatural meat eating has caused various problems into the human psychology and abnormal violence which some blame has raised violence. It has been quite difficult for people to consume animals slaughtered before themselves. However so meat eating has been found to be addictive due to various chemicals ingested which have a drug like effect.

[SURYADEV]

you cannot say meat causes disease outright. There illnesses caused by veggie or plant foods. Due to its handling/growing processes.
What causes illness is the industrial foods we eat for convenience. Those Devoid of fibre, nutrients, enzymes, phytochemicals. In the west even veggies or vegans suffer from ill health, all due to the unnatural, over processed shyte we down our mouths. Then we counteract all the negatives of that by taking medication etc which in turn has their own sides.
In modern society, the industrial foods we eat whether plants, grains or meat are pumped full of chemicals that cause us harm. Its just that because the harm it causes isn't overt, or dramatic or the effects take place over years people just don't see the link.
DM recently had an article about a 17yr old girl who ate nothing but McChicken Nuggets......since she was a toddler! She was apparantly fine for all these years. But now was taken to hospital when she fell ill with breathing difficulties.

Edited by SURYADEV, 03 February 2012 - 05:10 PM.

[kdsingh80]

When we look at the pimate family we find the trend in apes who eat fruits and veg.

The closest cousin of Humans ,Chimpanzee hunt and eat meat

Now today some are debating that the origin of various illnesses is to do with meat consumption which is against some of our function. Even carnivores seek fibre from certain plants themselves tigers have to eat grass for fibre.

Apart from Brahmins jains some Budhists and few other castes of Hindu's almost the entire world ate non veg food ,yet there is no evidence that these people were healthier or even stronger ,infact Indians are weakest in Athletic sports and more prone to various diseases

Also through meat eating humans wiped out the dodo bird, which we replaced with chickens (Gallus gallus domesticus) which came from

So what, so many species were gone extinct ,some by natural causes some by humans.Infact humans cutting down tree's and making farmlands is the biggest destroyer of eco system.so many carnivores were hunted down and made extinct by humans because they were dangerous to humans

Now some philosophers argue that the unnatural meat eating has caused various problems into the human psychology and abnormal violence which some blame has raised violence. It has been quite difficult for people to consume animals slaughtered before themselves.

the opposite can also be said that almost all vegetarian communitties became coward and they were unable to defend themselves.Jains were never known as warriors, Budhists and hindu's lost massively against muslims .also most of developed countries were meat eaters and most of them are now peaceful .Vegetarianism is recent phenomina in most of them

[SURYADEV]

As a Greek friend of mine would say:

"Vegetarianism is a luxury that only the rich can afford!"

Just ponder that for a while. Is sikhi out of reach for the poor man on edge of society because he cannot afford to buy high carb veggie foods?

In a similar vein I joke with my Namdhari friend that Kookaism is only for the wealthy, ie. only those who can afford to continously buy new bright white clothes and Daz washing powder in bulk! lol

[kdsingh80]

As a Greek friend of mine would say:

"Vegetarianism is a luxury that only the rich can afford!"

Just ponder that for a while. Is sikhi out of reach for the poor man on edge of society because he cannot afford to buy high carb veggie foods?

In a similar vein I joke with my Namdhari friend that Kookaism is only for the wealthy, ie. only those who can afford to continously buy new bright white clothes and Daz washing powder in bulk! lol

Your friend is right, a poor man just eat for survival ,that's why in coastal area you will hardly find any veggies because they all survive on seafood.Also lot of low income veggies in India just eat so much crappy food that it is no wonder that so many Indians are quite weak

[Mekhane'ch Jannat]

If human beings lived in the way they were ordained to live in, then they would not need to eat meat. In Satyug when Humans lived normally, a man who had done a wrongdoing affected the whole of humanity and animal nature, all of organic life. (In treta it became city and dwapar the family and in kalyug a man reaps himself what he sows). What this story represents is that organic life on Earth can be considered a single organism or a single animal. And Man progressively acting in a more unnatural manner with regard to the organism he is part of or in other words becoming more selfish. If organic life on Earth is an Organism it is made up of a body of Vegatative materials in this body there is animal passions or emotions typified by all animals then there is the Organism's mind, typified by Human Beings. Human Beings contain vegetative and animal, animal contains vegetative. The point of all this is that by killing animals for food or killing vegetables for food, is in effect the equivalent in the Human body of one part eating another within the same Human body. So you have to eat yourself to live. Because to kill something else to survive yourself is a very big paap, people in Satjug began to create purificatory rites through which Humans could be cleansed of this sin. These purificatory rites were Bhagti to God, through this Bhagti they were able to kill vegetables to survive in a sacred way with a pure innocent Bhagti, which cleansed them of this sin of killing part of the Organism or animal all on Earth are part of. As animals like sheep and chickens are higher than vegetables (higher meaning closer to God) In Satjug to kill an animal for food would require more purificatory rites or more Bhagti to get forgiveness. So non one killed animals for food in those times. Because as they were more aware of unity they did not want more paap on their heads.

Meat eating come into vogue when people got nasha of Maya and forgot about purificatory rites and focused on 'enjoying' life. So eating just became about nutrition and physical health so as to get maximum 'enjoyments' from life.

[chatanga1]

Meat eating come into vogue when people got nasha of Maya and forgot about purificatory rites and focused on 'enjoying' life.

quite riduculous.

[Mekhane'ch Jannat]

I don't think it ridiculous. In Satjug people ate roots and fruits from the trees, they lived in a natural, less artificial way. As the distractions of modern civilization were not present, they were not subjected, as much as later Yuga's, to the influences of Maya. Which is why it is called SATjug - the aeon of truth - because maya's influence was less at that time. As maya increased, the focus shifted towards the needs of the physical body. Because maya eats the energy of Human beings, their diet had to become stronger to give them the strength to do their work. So as Maya increases so does the need of the physical body for stronger foods like meat. So in kaljug you need to eat a lot of meat to have good strength to do work.

[JatherdarSahib]

As a Greek friend of mine would say:

"Vegetarianism is a luxury that only the rich can afford!"

Just ponder that for a while. Is sikhi out of reach for the poor man on edge of society because he cannot afford to buy high carb veggie foods?

In a similar vein I joke with my Namdhari friend that Kookaism is only for the wealthy, ie. only those who can afford to continously buy new bright white clothes and Daz washing powder in bulk! lol

Well you are looking at economy if you go to India it is cheaper to be veggeterian then eat meat, only the rich can afford meat. Why? Because when something sells as with demand it reduces in cost, veg and milk sell more then meat does the high majority are vegetarian.
Loads of chinese who are buddhists are veggeterian, we took an army to war fall of meat eaters and lost to the chinese. With any sports it's all about practice and training. In the west most people eat meat so meat is cheap, however in the west we do not face economic problems everyone can afford vegetterian food, alcohol is kind of cheap doesn't mean we avoid juice and drink a can of beer saying sikhi is for everyone.

Edited by JatherdarSahib, 06 February 2012 - 09:59 PM.

[JatherdarSahib]

http://vegan.sheknow...010/11/29/1433/


http://www.happycow....egetarians.html

Amitabh Bachan is 60+ he is veggeterian. Check out this list as well.. http://en.wikipedia...._of_vegetarians

Some Chimpanzees eat maggots eating magots can create many illnesses as well, the thing with any animal is survival if we deprive it of the natural food stock it will switch to alternative food supplies even things which are bad for it. We will find examples such as muslims who can't eat pork are allowed if nothing else is available it is better to survive then die. Meat is not a part of our natural diet as is the case for chimpanzees.

Edited by JatherdarSahib, 06 February 2012 - 09:57 PM.

[JatherdarSahib]

you cannot say meat causes disease outright. There illnesses caused by veggie or plant foods. Due to its handling/growing processes.
What causes illness is the industrial foods we eat for convenience. Those Devoid of fibre, nutrients, enzymes, phytochemicals. In the west even veggies or vegans suffer from ill health, all due to the unnatural, over processed shyte we down our mouths. Then we counteract all the negatives of that by taking medication etc which in turn has their own sides.
In modern society, the industrial foods we eat whether plants, grains or meat are pumped full of chemicals that cause us harm. Its just that because the harm it causes isn't overt, or dramatic or the effects take place over years people just don't see the link.
DM recently had an article about a 17yr old girl who ate nothing but McChicken Nuggets......since she was a toddler! She was apparantly fine for all these years. But now was taken to hospital when she fell ill with breathing difficulties.

You just contradicted yourself with the last example why did she suffer breathing problems? MCDonalds !

[kdsingh80]

Well you are looking at economy if you go to India it is cheaper to be veggeterian then eat meat, only the rich can afford meat. Why?

Not true. Buffalo meat and no so clean Pork was always cheap.As most of urban India is of high caste ,they shun both this meat so Buffalo meat is available in muslims ghetto's ,while pork is available in mostly in Lower caste area

Loads of chinese who are buddhists are veggeterian, we took an army to war fall of meat eaters and lost to the chinese

Vegetarianism in China is practiced by tiny minority

With any sports it's all about practice and training

In sports the 1st is genetics,2nd is Diet and 3rd is practice and training.

Some Chimpanzees eat maggots eating magots can create many illnesses as well, the thing with any animal is survival if we deprive it of the natural food stock it will switch to alternative food supplies even things which are bad for it. We will find examples such as muslims who can't eat pork are allowed if nothing else is available it is better to survive then die. Meat is not a part of our natural diet as is the case for chimpanzees.

The Predatory Behavior and Ecology of Wild Chimpanzees

http://www-bcf.usc.e.../chimphunt.html

[JatherdarSahib]

Chimpanzees eat monkeys. Should we eat monkeys? I refute being related to monkeys and chimpanzees. There are some similar characteristics due to environment and habitat but that is not the case. Otherwise should we eat monkeys?

http://www.beyondveg...p-anat-2a.shtml

http://www.beyondveg...terview1e.shtml

Loads of other primates eat insects, we are well known to conteract problems.

With beef and pork you find social issues for why they don't sell with islam it says your not supposed to eat an animal you use such as a horse and camel. However with agriculture in india cows are used for that, the agriculture was limited in the desert of arabia.

Chickens came into eating 6000years ago, so the main food groups we would have to consider is fish and goats, lamb, sheep i.e. mutton.
How many chimpanzees eat mutton, how many apes eat mutton? A better food group then to consider would be fish? How many primates eat fish?

Various scientific studies carried out show a variation of different descents of primates throughout various human groups so some changes in the diet would be assumed.

Edited by JatherdarSahib, 07 February 2012 - 06:57 PM.

[chatanga1]

Loads of chinese who are buddhists are veggeterian, we took an army to war fall of meat eaters and lost to the chinese.

actually the chinese army is officially God-less, so even if there were any practising chinese buddhists, they would not be known. Any Chinese soldier or even politican, policeman or teacher, cannot be a member of a religion. They would be sacked immediately or even jailed, or sent on a Chinese Peoples Revolution programme.

Buddhists are vegetarians, but dont try and make wrong statements.

[SURYADEV]

then again not all buddists are veggies. some/many do eat meat to some extent.

Jathedarji I'm having a blonde day today, must be the cold getting to me. Can you explain how did I contradict myself?