Sikh Weddings Crashed By Protesters Objecting To Mixed Faith Marriages

[dalsingh101]

Sikh weddings crashed by protesters objecting to mixed faith marriages

March 12, 2013

by Dil Neiyyar and Perminder Khatkar BBC Asian Network Source: www.bbc.co.uk

11 March 2013: Sikh weddings are regularly disrupted by protesters opposed to mixed-faith marriages in gurdwaras, a BBC Asian Network investigation has found.

Victims and their families have accused the protesters - who believe non-Sikhs should not be getting married in Sikh gurdwaras - of threatening behaviour.

In some cases, protesters have barricaded themselves inside gurdwaras to prevent ceremonies taking place.

Last year the windows of a family's house in Coventry were smashed.

The incident took place just hours before a mixed faith wedding in a nearby gurdwara.

The father of the bride told BBC Asian Network the house was targeted because his daughter was marrying a Hindu in a Sikh temple.

He said: "Some of these people didn't want the wedding to go ahead. This was the way for them to frighten me."

The couple ended up having a police escort for the wedding.

In July a Sikh woman and her Christian husband were locked out of their own wedding in Swindon.

More than 40 protesters had barricaded themselves inside the gates of the Sikh temple.

The bride's mother pleaded with the men to call off their action but the gates of the gurdwara remained shut.

One of the protesters, speaking anonymously to the BBC Asian Network, said: "The last thing I want is to go to a gurdwara and cause trouble. I can say hand on heart that we have never resorted to violence. We don't want to do this."

'Don't use our guru'

But he said he believed it was hypocritical for a bride or groom to go through a ceremony when they do not truly believe in the Sikh faith.

"No-one is telling you not to marry your son or daughter to whoever you like - but don't use our guru as an excuse to do it," he said.

There are around 300 gurdwaras in Britain and each is run by elected committees of worshippers.

The rules on the anand karaj, which is the formal name for the Sikh wedding, are set by the religion's governing body which is based at the Golden Temple in Amritsar, India.

In 2007 it advised gurdwaras the anand karaj should only be between two Sikhs and the protesters say some gurdwara committees are not respecting the faith by allowing non-Sikhs who do not believe in the religion to marry there.

Professor Gurharpal Singh, from the School of Oriental and African Studies, says the rise in mixed faith weddings has led to objections.

Prof Singh, an expert in the Sikh faith, said: "Previously mixed marriages were rare and they were - in a sense - tolerated. But now we are seeing a greater number of mixed marriages and correspondingly the reaction against those marriages from those who believe that the formal Sikh tradition says that only Sikhs should marry Sikhs."

The Sikh Council - an umbrella body for Sikh organisations in the UK - has condemned the violence and threats but agrees with the sentiment of the protesters.

The council's secretary general, Gurmel Singh, said: "I would say there is no place in a modern Britain for any community to resort to violent threatening behaviour." Protest outside Swindon gurdwara A rise in mixed faith weddings has led to an increase in these protests

But Mr Singh said: "The person getting married has to accept the concept of one god and renounce any other beliefs they may hold which are contrary to that.

"They would also need to understand what the Sikh marriage entails. They would need to adopt (the surname) Singh or Kaur as they are what defines a Sikh. We don't have legal powers so it is not legally enforceable but it is a social contract a contract of commitment."

The protests have made many gurdwaras incredibly nervous about conducting mixed faith weddings and, while some said they were willing to hold ceremonies, they did not want to speak about the issue publicly.

Secret weddings

BBC Asian Network has learned of couples struggling to book weddings in some temples and of other couples getting married in secret, in front of a handful of guests.

One Sikh bride who got married to her Christian husband in secret in December sacrificed a traditional big Asian wedding for a tiny ceremony in front of a few relatives. She did not want to give her name for fear of reprisals.

"The night before the wedding we were wondering what to do if there was any trouble - it was really stressful and upsetting," she said.

Dr Piara Singh Bhogal has sat on the committee that runs the Ramgariha gurdwara in Birmingham and he said he shared the protesters' views on Sikh-only weddings but objects to the way protesters are ruining the most important day of a couple's life.

"This issue now is becoming quite serious because ceremonies have been disrupted. I am hearing about once a month, sometimes twice a month ceremonies are being disrupted. People are getting scared," he said.

You can hear the full documentary The Sikh Wedding Crashers on the BBC Asian Network on Monday 11 March at 17:00 GMT or listen back on BBC iPlayer.

VIDEO: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21745539

http://www.sikhnet.com/news/sikh-weddings-crashed-protesters-objecting-mixed-faith-marriages

[kdsingh80]

Sikhism is going through a carnage of mixed marriages of Sikh women with other religions in several parts of world.Harsh truth is that future of sikhs is quite bleak and many sikh men have no option either to discard their turban or beard or remain single.

[dalsingh101]

^^^

Not necessarily. I see so many inbred looking apnay, we could do with a wider gene pool.

Our problems are not mixed marriages but rather our inability to incorporate outsiders into our society smoothly.

The British don't have this problem and nor do Muslims.

This is a self inflicted wound.

We are still struggling with mixed caste marriages whilst others can integrate completely different races into their society. Go figure.

Edited March 13, 2013 by dalsingh101

[kdsingh80]

^^^

Not necessarily. I see so many inbred looking apnay, we could do with a wider gene pool.

Our problems are not mixed marriages but rather our inability to incorporate outsiders into our society smoothly.

The British don't have this problem and nor do Muslims.

This is a self inflicted wound.

We are still struggling with mixed caste marriages whilst others can integrate completely different races into their society. Go figure.

Situation in India and situation in UK are quite different..If a sikh woman will choose to marry a white man who don't give damn about religion then she can easily raise her kids as sikhs.But if she choose to marry a Hindu or muslim man then in 99% cases children are going to be non sikhs.Whenever you visit India you can see these type of families and you will hardly found any sikh kid in them

Two of my cousin sisters are married to non sikhs and none of their children are sikhs

Edited March 13, 2013 by kdsingh80

[HSD1]

Sikhism is going through a carnage of mixed marriages of Sikh women with other religions in several parts of world.Harsh truth is that future of sikhs is quite bleak and many sikh men have no option either to discard their turban or beard or remain single.

Not really. There are plenty of Singhs in the UK who have no problems getting women. Talking to freshies from India who cut their hair for girls, being mona hasnt improved their success rate with Sikh women. Why we as a society think it all comes down to 'hair' I dont know. A lot of it is intelligence, personality, hobbies, fitness (muscles, healthy look), money etc. Ok some girls think a turban equals a highly religous guy, but that's because they have had bad experiences with turbanned men who act ultra religous and expect their woman to care for them like their mother did. Women dont want to look after a manchild for the rest of their lives, they want to be looked after themselves. It's a partnership.

Look at it another way, no man attracts every member of the other sex. Women put off by a turban is their choice. Other women arent.

^^^

Not necessarily. I see so many inbred looking apnay, we could do with a wider gene pool.

Our problems are not mixed marriages but rather our inability to incorporate outsiders into our society smoothly.

The British don't have this problem and nor do Muslims.

This is a self inflicted wound.

We are still struggling with mixed caste marriages whilst others can integrate completely different races into their society. Go figure.

Lol, is this eugenics Dal-style?

Inbred apnay in the UK look like that due to economic, diet and lifestyle choices their parents made growing up. If anything they look no different to the goreh/sulleh/mixed race people from the same background.

I dont think the two are linked. Mixed marriages are becoming a bigger thing but so are divorces. If they want to marry, they dont need to do it in a Gurudwara.

Not everyone wants to be Sikh, a lot of people marrying Sikhs have a misguided view of Sikhs due to their spouses. They think they can turn up at an event and be the centre of attention, because of all the fawning over them from their brown doll/lover boy. When they realise Sikhs have white friends and arent bothered by the novelty of a white person at a brown event they get stroppy. Others have no intention with getting involved in the Sikh side of the family and expect their wife/husband to go through the hoops of acceptance for their own family/community. That's just the goreh. We dont need to talk about what happens when marrying into muslim families or the 'love jihad' that young musi boys and girls wage.

Accepting outsiders is another thing entirely. It varies depending on a hell of a lot of things. Some in the older generation get quite happy when their kids marry goreh as they feel 'they have made it'. They are now inseperable from British society and all that blah blah. Funnily enough these same people get upset when they see a fauji with a chavni. How do you explain that?

The British arent accepting either. They expect people to give up a lot and jump through so many hoops for acceptance. Even then it's not true acceptance. They still push back to try and make you want it more. Unfortunately so many of our lot fall for it all the time.

Muslims just want more numbers to support their aims and sense of security with 'safety in numbers'. In reality and history, it just means that when the shooting starts we have more chance of getting them than they have of getting us.

Overcoming our own internal differences is a far higher priority before we go fishing in other ponds.

[kdsingh80]

Not really. There are plenty of Singhs in the UK who have no problems getting women. Talking to freshies from India who cut their hair for girls, being mona hasnt improved their success rate with Sikh women. Why we as a society think it all comes down to 'hair' I dont know. A lot of it is intelligence, personality, hobbies, fitness (muscles, healthy look), money etc. Ok some girls think a turban equals a highly religous guy, but that's because they have had bad experiences with turbanned men who act ultra religous and expect their woman to care for them like their mother did. Women dont want to look after a manchild for the rest of their lives, they want to be looked after themselves. It's a partnership.

Look at it another way, no man attracts every member of the other sex. Women put off by a turban is their choice. Other women arent.

1)recently there was scientific study which proves that women dislike facial hair so Sikh men with full beard are always going to be at disadvantage.

2) When we talk about turbaned sikhs we have to put them in categories, trimmed or no beard , like cricketer Harbhajan singh , thin beard, heavy beard, tied. Open beard.Many times examples of trimmed singhs are given which had success with women

3)In Sikhism the worst hit are men which are neither fully religious nor totally clean shaven.Amritdhari men will marry amritdhari or religious girls, less or non religious girls willl choose mona so where will the sikhs which are not fully religious but wear turban and keep uncut beard will go?

4) I agree with you that a turbaned bearded sikh with good height , health personality, career may end up attracting women but sikhs are humans and not all are like this.

5) With many many sikh women are doing inter religious marriage , Sikh men had no option but to marry non sikh women .It is simple question of stats. If there are 3 out of 10 sikh women opt for out of religion marriages then 3-4 sikh men out of 10 too have to look out of religion for partners.or remain single

Edited March 13, 2013 by kdsingh80

[HSD1]

1)recently there was scientific study which proves that women dislike facial hair so Sikh men with full beard are always going to be at disadvantage.

2) When we talk about turbaned sikhs we have to put them in categories, trimmed or no beard , like cricketer Harbhajan singh , thin beard, heavy beard, tied. Open beard.Many times examples of trimmed singhs are given which had success with women

3)In Sikhism the worst hit are men which are neither fully religious nor totally clean shaven.Amritdhari men will marry amritdhari or religious girls, less or non religious girls willl choose mona so where will the sikhs which are not fully religious but wear turban and keep uncut beard will go?

4) I agree with you that a turbaned bearded sikh with good height , health personality, career may end up attracting women but sikhs are humans and not all are like this.

5) With many many sikh women are doing inter religious marriage , Sikh men had no option but to marry non sikh women .It is simple question of stats. If there are 3 out of 10 sikh women opt for out of religion marriages then 3-4 sikh men out of 10 too have to look out of religion for partners.or remain single

1. Bro, I doubt it was scientific. More like an opinion poll. Plenty of societies have had bearded men in large numbers and they never died out due to lack of children. The real problem here is how common beards and turbans are. The more women see them and the more comfortable they are with men who have them, the more likely they are to go out with them. Singhs in the UK get attention from Sikh girls and non-Sikh girls, even though some opinion poll may say otherwise, there are still women who are into beards. Ultimately all that stuff is skin deep, there are other things that women care about. Dont get down in the dumps or miserable about it, that will only cause more problems. In India with Singhs cutting their hair and the media portraying Sikhs badly, this may be why people are reluctant to date a Singh. The way around it is not watch those stupid shows or let kids watch them, and show that Singhs can be normal guys too.

2. I think you are overthinking it or trying to see patterns that are anecdotal. So what if so and so on TV has such and such girlfriend? There is a famous Sikh actor in the west called Waris Ahluwalia, he doesnt have any problems and he has a big beard. Sometimes you can see things that get in the way when it may not actually be true.

3. In the UK the keshdharis are in the same boat as the monas and they marry monis. Some monis arent into non-Sikh men and have married Singhs. Most of my family are not that religous now, but my cousin married a Singh she knew and they are happy together. It was his personality and 'normalness' that made him better than other guys. Decent guys, regardless of how they look, will never have a problem in the long run as long as they dont expect good fortune to dump a girl in their lap. Why cant it be like that in East Punjab?

4. I know not everyone can be like Diljit Dosanjh or whatever role model Singhs have for fashion style, but charisma/personality are something that can be worked on. Strength or confidence always attract women. Look, I live in the UK and I see english people who you would think that no one would ever have kids with. But they have a whole pile of kids. There really is someone for everyone out there, being negative wont do it.

5. Marrying a non-sikh moni who wants to be with you is probably better than marrying a sikh girl who has personal hang ups about her own people. It's up to the individual at the end of the day, dont care what others say, they're usually hypocrites. Feeling bad or self defeatist will only make things worse though, figure out a way to win. Sikhs married muslim women back in Maharaja Ranjit Singh's time and they managed to produce kids who saw themselves as Sikh. OK, I know it's not ideal marrying Non-Sikhs, but if you have to marry....

[dalsingh101]

Overcoming our own internal differences is a far higher priority before we go fishing in other ponds.

So what's the plan in that department?

1)recently there was scientific study which proves that women dislike facial hair so Sikh men with full beard are always going to be at disadvantage.

I had a very close friend who was keshdhari and girls loved him for his confidence (he was a big slag though). So I don't buy the story that girls don't like bearded guys one bit.

Edited March 14, 2013 by dalsingh101

[SAadmin]

This issue is quite complex. It all comes down to main sticking points below:

 

a) Do we totally put people (both parties- sikhs marrying non sikhs) off by banning them to get married in gurdwara- we potentially loose generations of potential sikhs coming from potential sikh marry non sikh or both. And if we do ban these marriages at gurdwara then how do you draw a line with monaie getting married who are arguably also mocking traditions of anand karaj by not following the guru's path? If we want to fix a issue, lets fix it fully- not band aid fix or do half arse job. Lets not pick and chose on beadhi. Beadhi is beadhi whether its done by sikhs marrying non sikhs performing /mocking anand karaj ceremony or whether its done by punjabi monaie performing/mocking anand karaj.

 

Or

 

b..) Do we provide options/alternative options to both sikh marrying non sikhs/punjabi monae having wedding i.e - provide alternative options such as chaplain service providing generic vow in presence of sri guru granth sahib ji, without loosing sanctity of anand karaj, so that atleast - oh gurdwara- (sangat/free concept of langar/seva/kirtan/katha) naal ta joraie rehan..you never know when maharaj does kirpa among in sangat in gupti roop bring someone closer to him.

 

This is just tip of iceberg..i think $h!t is going to hit the fan real soon if our leaders don't step up and calm up these protesters to stop ruining someone special day- marriage ( i don't care what their justifications are). I don't believe in band aid fixes/knee jerk reaction approach without looking at larger implications so i will cut to chase.

 

I think our leaders need to call an emergency meeting regarding anand karaj to strike a right balance- re-tweak sikh marriage- have massive parchar highlighting importance of anand karaj ceremony, have amrit sanchar before anand karaj ceremony but at the same time- provide alternative granthi chaplain service - recitation of gurbani verses (happy events- lakh khusiya patsahi etc) followed by anand sahib for non amritdharis/non sikhs who just want blessing of guru sahib and follow sikhi at their own gradual speed, at their own accord, at their own will and at their own terms.

[kdsingh80]

1. Bro, I doubt it was scientific. More like an opinion poll.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2110272/Psychologists-confirm-Women-REALLY-dont-like-beards.html

Don't know How much reliable it is but you will hardly found romantic films having bearded heroes.

Plenty of societies have had bearded men in large numbers and they never died out due to lack of children.

HSD warriors and religious people use to keep beards in many societies.Now the societies are moving towards western liberal model which has very girly life..The importance of masculine is now declining .

The real problem here is how common beards and turbans are. The more women see them and the more comfortable they are with men who have them, the more likely they are to go out with them.

It looks that situation in urban India, and UK are quite different.What is the percentage of Sikhs who keep beard and turban

in UK ?In urban India 90% of sikh men keep turban and beard yet it has become epidemic for girls which are marrying non sikh men In both my mother's and father's side situation is now very bad.Just 2 weeks ago I saw marriage pic of my distant relative with non sikh on Facebook.No wonder no invitation was given.So I don't agree with you point that more women will see turban and beard then they will choose them as partners because in urban India it is exactly opposite

.

. I think you are overthinking it or trying to see patterns that are anecdotal. So what if so and so on TV has such and such girlfriend? There is a famous Sikh actor in the west called Waris Ahluwalia, he doesnt have any problems and he has a big beard. Sometimes you can see things that get in the way when it may not actually be true.3. In the UK the keshdharis are in the same boat as the monas and they marry monis. Some monis arent into non-Sikh men and have married Singhs. Most of my family are not that religous now, but my cousin married a Singh she knew and they are happy together. It was his personality and 'normalness' that made him better than other guys. Decent guys, regardless of how they look, will never have a problem in the long run as long as they dont expect good fortune to dump a girl in their lap. Why cant it be like that in East Punjab?

I know other factors are important. I live in posh area of NCR region of Delhi which has very little sikh population . Most of them are filthy rich and many have super model looking wives and GF's .It is their money which attract which do the trick for them .

5. Marrying a non-sikh moni who wants to be with you is probably better than marrying a sikh girl who has personal hang ups about her own people. It's up to the individual at the end of the day, dont care what others say, they're usually hypocrites. Feeling bad or self defeatist will only make things worse though, figure out a way to win. Sikhs married muslim women back in Maharaja Ranjit Singh's time and they managed to produce kids who saw themselves as Sikh. OK, I know it's not ideal marrying Non-Sikhs, but if you have to marry....

Accepting reality is not self defeatist .Past is now irrelevant .At that time woman use to marry men from ruling class , no wonder muslim women married singhs because they were rulers.As I said it is just a game of statistics there will always be sikh men who will able to find wives but as the ratio of available sikh women who wants to marry them fall there will always be many which are left out.

[HSD1]

So what's the plan in that department?

You cleaning out your inbox would be a start lol.

All I will say on a public forum is that people will get away with bad behaviour as long as they are allowed to. Threatening to leave Gurudwaras and build your own works. A lot of young people were I live dont even give money to the Gurdwara because of how the older generation treats them - this hasnt been lost on the older generation. Being stupid or lazy just because it feels 'normal' just wrecks our chances of doing anything and the committees know this.

Add to that all the unemployed people with degrees and work experience sitting around doing nothing and depressing everyone. Gurdwaras could tap into that by using those with accounting/business/law experience and degrees to sort out their accounts and be more accountable by allowing those who ask to see the economic state. Or use these people to do sewa by providing services like legal advice etc. Hell, we could get some history and italian graduates and pay them to go and give Mr Kasoor a hand. The possibilities are endless for what Gurdwaras can do, there is a lot we can do that doesnt involve buying houses or giving it away to money hungry ubercharities.

Things are getting bad in Europe and it requires a bit of foresight and unity from our elders to make sure we dont get screwed over. If Gurudwaras pooled their resources and used them we wouldnt have so many disenchanted kids, forget converting others when we cant even keep the people born into it.

I wont go on about East Punjab too much, but wider publicity of what goes on there and naming and shaming culprits of bad behaviour would bring a lot of pressure and chance of repurcussions from Sikhs in the West. Dont be apathetic about your problems in South Asia.

This issue is quite complex. It all comes down to main sticking points below:

a) Do we totally put people (both parties- sikhs marrying non sikhs) off by banning them to get married in gurdwara- we potentially loose generations of potential sikhs coming from potential sikh marry non sikh or both. And if we do ban these marriages at gurdwara then how do you draw a line with monaie getting married who are arguably also mocking traditions of anand karaj by not following the guru's path? If we want to fix a issue, lets fix it fully- not band aid fix or do half arse job. Lets not pick and chose on beadhi. Beadhi is beadhi whether its done by sikhs marrying non sikhs performing /mocking anand karaj ceremony or whether its done by punjabi monaie performing/mocking anand karaj.

Or

b..) Do we provide options/alternative options to both sikh marrying non sikhs/punjabi monae having wedding i.e - provide alternative options such as chaplain service providing generic vow in presence of sri guru granth sahib ji, without loosing sanctity of anand karaj, so that atleast - oh gurdwara- (sangat/free concept of langar/seva/kirtan/katha) naal ta joraie rehan..you never know when maharaj does kirpa among in sangat in gupti roop bring someone closer to him.

This is just tip of iceberg..i think $h!t is going to hit the fan real soon if our leaders don't step up and calm up these protesters to stop ruining someone special day- marriage ( i don't care what their justifications are). I don't believe in band aid fixes/knee jerk reaction approach without looking at larger implications so i will cut to chase.

I think our leaders need to call an emergency meeting regarding anand karaj to strike a right balance- re-tweak sikh marriage- have massive parchar highlighting importance of anand karaj ceremony, have amrit sanchar before anand karaj ceremony but at the same time- provide alternative granthi chaplain service - recitation of gurbani verses (happy events- lakh khusiya patsahi etc) followed by anand sahib for non amritdharis/non sikhs who just want blessing of guru sahib and follow sikhi at their own gradual speed, at their own accord, at their own will and at their own terms.

Yes, it is very complicated.

a. I dont think we lose generations from not allowing mixed religious marriages. In a lot of these marriages they just end up in divorce. The kids get torn between homes and the Sikh wider family have to step in to make sure the kids dont get abused. My friend's brother married a gori and when he died she went off the rails. Her family didnt care and were a bit racist so the kid's grandparents had to step in and make sure their grandaughter didnt end up in care. Now she's doing great with my mate's family and it cant be said that there is a 'lost generation'.

As for moneh I always thought the dividing line was whether the couple considered themselves Sikh. The gianis and babas should ask them whether they are Sikh. If they say yes, it doesnt matter if they are white/black or born in Siberia. But if they say no I'm Christian/Muslim/whatever or they are having a ceremony in a church or something to get the legal side done but want a bit of 'Bollywood' for the wedding photos, then the Gurdwara should say no.

b. We could do that. But that might just split Sikhs even more or introduce distinctions and other dividing lines. Or not, you're right someone needs to think this all through. But getting committees, babas, sant, gyanis and wider community together to discuss this with logic and informative ideas isnt going to happen. There is no platform for such a discussion.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2110272/Psychologists-confirm-Women-REALLY-dont-like-beards.html

Don't know How much reliable it is but you will hardly found romantic films having bearded heroes.

Taken from the article: 'scientists from New Zealand and Canada decided to conduct their own research.//Women from both countries rated the clean-shaven look as significantly more attractive, the journal Behavioral Ecology reports.'

So all that means is dont go for women from New Zealand or Canada as you have a lower chance. It doesnt say it's impossible. It's all rather mathematical. To be honest a lot of western 'scientists' spend a lot of time doing this kind of pointless research to be published by junk papers in the West. The saying 'dont believe everything you read' is apt in this case.

I've seen a lot of bearded Sikh heroes in Punjabi films. Diljit Dosanjh is a trim Singh, but there are other guys in the Gippy Grewal films who dont look any worse or have less 'screen presence' than clean shaven men.

HSD warriors and religious people use to keep beards in many

societies.Now the societies are moving towards western liberal model

which has very girly life..The importance of masculine is now declining .

I know, this monochrome globalised world with no real diversity or difference is disgusting. But there is a thing called evolution. Sometimes you got to keep one foot in one world and another in the other. Be big enough to be both. You never know what could happen in the future so you keep your options open.

It looks that situation in urban India, and UK are quite different.What is the percentage of Sikhs who keep beard and turban

in UK ?In urban India 90% of sikh men keep turban and beard yet it

has become epidemic for girls which are marrying non sikh men In both

my mother's and father's side situation is now very bad.Just 2 weeks ago

I saw marriage pic of my distant relative with non sikh on Facebook.No

wonder no invitation was given.So I don't agree with you point that more

women will see turban and beard then they will choose them as partners

because in urban India it is exactly opposite

If that's the case it sounds like you need to cast your net a bit wider. I dont think there are any statistics for the amritdhari/keshdari/mona ratio in the UK. If your community is really small then you will be assimilated by the bigger community. It's happened to Sikh communities in East Asia and South America that didnt get new blood from back home.

I know other factors are important. I live in posh area of NCR region

of Delhi which has very little sikh population . Most of them are

filthy rich and many have super model looking wives and GF's .It is

their money which attract which do the trick for them .

Exactly, where there is a will there is a way. That goes for women and men. Plenty of women out there looking for husbands too.

Accepting reality is not self defeatist .Past is now irrelevant .At that

time woman use to marry men from ruling class , no wonder muslim women

married singhs because they were rulers.As I said it is just a game of

statistics there will always be sikh men who will able to find wives

but as the ratio of available sikh women who wants to marry them fall

there will always be many which are left out.

Then some Sikh men will have to find wives where they can find them and raise their kids appropriately if they cant find Sikh women to marry them.

Edited March 14, 2013 by HSD1

[dalsingh101]

You cleaning out your inbox would be a start lol.

Made a little space.