challenge_everything Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 Satkartar Looking over the pages of history many different avatars have graced the land of India with their presence. Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji ‘ Khalsa’ Bhindrawale was the Jathedar of the original Samparda Bhindrawale Taksal at Gurdwara Akhand Parkash in Bhinder-Kala (currently Sant-Giani Mohan Singh Ji ‘Khalsa’ Bhindrawale). Baba Ji is also considered a Jathedar of the modern day Mehat-Chowk Taksaal at Gurdwara Gurdarshan Parkash by modern day ‘Damdami Taksalis’ (www.damdamitaksal.org, www.damdamitaksal.com). Baba Ji lists some small facts about the 10 Guru Sahibs on pages 13 to 23 of his book ‘Gurbani Paath Darshan’. Baba Ji states that the “Bedi†family of Guru Nanak Maharaaj can be linked back to a Kush the son of Siri Raam Chandra. And because a descendant of Kush studied the Vedas at Kanshee the family was called the “Bedi†family. Guru Angad Maharaaj Ji’s “Tehan†lineage is said to go back to to the son of Siri Lashman Ji whose name was Takh and hence his lineage was known as the ‘Tehan’ family. Guru Amardass Ji’s “Bhalla†lineage can be linked to the brother of Siri Raam Chandra whose name was Bharath, his son Bhallan is said to have given his name to the “Bhalla†family. Guru Raamdass Ji’s “Sodhi†lineage can be linked back to Luv the son of Siri Raam Chandra. The descendants of Luv won over the kingdom of “Snoaudh†and from there the “Sodhi†family descends. In this way Baba Ji has linked all of the Gurus back to the family of Siri Raam Chandra Ji. We cannot deny these links as they are agreed upon not only by Panth-Rattan Baba Gurbachan Singh ‘Khalsa’ but also many other Nirmala, Udasi and Sevapanthi Gurmukh Pyare, Sadhu Sants. This is also confirmed by the writings of Dashmesh Pitta Guru Gobind Singh in ‘Bachittar-Natak’. Can we really say that the entire of the 10 Gurus lineage linking back to Siri Raam Chandra is a coincidence? Or should we just ignore this true fact just in case we are scared of being classed as ‘Hindus’? “We have just enough religion to hate one another, but not enough Dharma to love one another.†1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 What is written is correct. it just means most of the indian population is derived from luv and kush. remember they cam during the treta jug which was ages away. also i respect baba mohan ji very much but they are not the current jathedars of taksal that was passed over to sant baba kartar singh ji. if you doubt this then i suggest you go to gurmatveechar.com and listen to the katha by baba gurbachan singh ji bhindrawalae where there isa file in which they state where they will be passing their authority of the taksal upon them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 Can we really say that the entire of the 10 Gurus lineage linking back to Siri Raam Chandra is a coincidence? Or should we just ignore this true fact just in case we are scared of being classed as ‘Hindus’? Was Sri Ramchander Jee a Hindu? Where does it say that he comes from Hindu family? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
challenge_everything Posted May 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 good question admin....at the end of the day What is a hindu? Can any learned Hindu friend or Nirmala scholar give the definition of a Hindu. “We have just enough religion to hate one another, but not enough Dharma to love one another.†0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
challenge_everything Posted May 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 the authenticity of this tape can be questioned but that is another thread. Baba Mohan Singh was given the Jathedari of Bhindrawale Taksal. Page 9 'Gurbani Paath Darhsan.' "Datsar-bandi Ceremoney 29 June 1969 7 am Akhand Paaths were started near Sant Maharaaj Gurbachan Singh Ji's body. On the 8th July 1969 on Tuesday the day of Dusehra behind the Akaal Kuteeaa in a very big tent Kirtan and Paath was done from the Amrit Vela and many saints gave talks about Sant Ji. At 2pm the head of the Bhindrae-Samparda Siri-Maan Sant Baba Indar Singh Ji declared that spiritually gifted Sant Mohan Singh Ji one of the most diligent student of Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji 'Khalsa' as the next Jathedar of Bhindra Samparda, according to the last wishes of Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji a gathering of all the Sants of many different Sampardas, many prominent Taksal students, both Bhindra Panchyatas and the rest of the sangat voted that Sant Mohan Singh would be the next Jathedar of the Taksal. First 5 dastaars were tied by Sant Indar Singh and Sant Aajaeb Singh to Sant-Giani Mohan Singh's head. These dastaars were 1) From Harimandar Sahib Amritsar. 2) Samparda Bhindra. 3) Shromani Akaali Dal. 4) S.G.P.C Amritsar. 5) Nirmala Panchayaeti Akhara. Baba Mohan Singh was given siropas from all the Takhats. Then Baba Ji was given gifts and dastaars from many different head instituions. AT this time there were many prominent people in the Panth who came to give gifts to Sant Mohan Singh... Sant Fateh Singh Pradhan Shromani Akali Dal, Sant Chanan Singh Pradhan S.G.P.C, Pandit Sucha Singh Siri Mahant of the Nirmala Panchayaeti Akhara, Sant Naraen Singh Ludhaee Ke, Sant Kundan Singh Kalera, Sant Meeha Singh Siaar, Rare-wale Sant, Harkhowal-wale Sant, Kuhaarpuriae Sant, Sant Rann Singh, Sant Harchand Singh Laungowal, Sant Seva Singh, Sant Maan Singh Kokari, Giani Bhupinder Singh, Giani Chet Singh Head-Granthi Darbar Sahib, Giani Kapur Singh Head-Granth Sis Ganj Delhi, Amar Singh Dosanjh, Giani Shaadi Singh, Giani Gurdit Singh, Gurnaam Singh Chief-Minister Panjaab, Education Minister Sohan Singh, Jagdev Singh Talvandi, Sant Arjan Singh, Sant Sarvan Singh Bunga Mastuana, Giani Niranjan Singh, Giani Singh Rarewala, Giani Veer Singh, Giani Prem Singh Nabha, Giani Gurnam Singh Shiniwal, Giani Harnek Singh, Giani Meva Singh, Sant Kartar Singh 'Premi', Giani Karnail Singh Baduwal, Jathedar Kapur Singh Sudhar, Sant Gurbaksh Singh Harpalpur, Sant-Bhagat Ujagar Singh, the son of Sant Gurbachan Singh 'Khalsa' Bhindrawala Bhai Kartar Singh Ji, Raagi Bhagvaan Singh, Giani Gurdev Singh Calcutta, Sangat from Mumbai, prominent students of Taksaal, Raagi Jathas, the family of Sant Gurbachan Singh 'Khalsa' Bhindrawale and many more Sikh Sangat." These many sources point towards Sant Mohan Singh as the true Jathedar of the Samparda Bhindra. “We have just enough religion to hate one another, but not enough Dharma to love one another.†However as mentioned before this is a separate debate 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 10, 2004 Report Share Posted May 10, 2004 Let's stick to topic here guys! "chhatri ko poot hau, baaman ko neh." - Kalgidhar Challenge_everything, After seeing your knowledge on different topics I will not make any assumptions that you are unaware of the fact that in which situation Guru Sahib jee has written above verses and from which specific part of his bani it comes from. But for the sake of this discussion let’s not create any confusion and please write the full paragraph from which this specific line comes from, so we can paint a visible picture for our members of our site. Also, let’s stick to Giani Gurbachan Singh Jee Khalsa Bhindrawale's Book here and go by this theme to have fruitful discussion. And this is not some kind of insult that "Raja Ramchander Jee" was not Hindu as he never claimed to be one. If he did please correct this ignorant here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
challenge_everything Posted May 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 "Chhatri Ko Poot Hau Baaman Ko Nahi Ke Tap Aaavat Hau Jo Karo Ar Aur Janjaar Jito Greh Ko Tuhe Tiaag Kahaa Chit Taa Meh Dharo Ab Reejh Ke Deho Vehe Hum Ko Jo Hau Bintee Kar Jorr Karo Jab Aav Kee Audh Nidhaan Bane At Hee Ran Meh Tab Joojh Maro" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PunjabiG Posted May 11, 2004 Report Share Posted May 11, 2004 I have heard that from SOME people but as far as my opinion, its a bunch of Hindu crap/propaganda and unfortunately some of the Sikhs actually speak about it as historically true. There is no link with All Sikh Gurus descending from Ram's family..just apply logic instead of listening to some babe and you will figure it out. The points made on Sodhis, Bhallas etc. are not even valid and easy to manipulate! get some actual evidence and you will know. Also, how can you even compare or want to compare Guru Nanak to someone like Ram Chander. Baba Nanak spoke about women's rights, equality unlike this Ram Chander who kicked his pregnant wife out of the house because somebody said stuff. Please don't give me the crap on Ram Rajya because his wife's rights were clearly violated under this Raj. And even to this day, in India women are treated like crap because dumb people worship Ram Chander as God. So how can you even link Guru's to this family's lineage. Its an Insult to principles and logic of religion like SIkhism./ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
challenge_everything Posted May 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 Just because the Gurus ancestors did something bad how can we cover up the family lineage? Bhenji with due respect any of our ancestors may been murderers, rapists or adulterers....Does this mean we are not related to them??? Guru Gobind Singh Ji himself mentions these family lineages in the Bachittar Natak ...And before you call Baba Gurbachan Singh 'Khalsa' Bhinrawale some 'Baba' get your facts right. Baba Ji was and still is one of the most respected and influential figue within the Panth. just apply logic If you apply logic you can see that anyone can be related to anyone.... If a father is a murderer can his son not be a Saint? Where does this leave Bhai Bidhi Chand whose whole family were robbers? This works the other way too look at Prithee Chand and Ram Rae, just because there fathers were Satgurus doesnt meant hey were spiritually gifted. Bhen ji think carefully before you discard the baani of Guru Gobind Singh in the Bachittar Natak. Can you please read Bachittar Natak before you make your next point Bhen ji...thanks “We have just enough religion to hate one another, but not enough Dharma to love one another.†0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sane Mind Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 Bhenji with due respect any of our ancestors may been murderers, rapists or adulterers....Does this mean we are not related to them??? bhaji can i ask why r trying to prove our Gurus belonged to Ram's family. what difference wud this make in teachings of our Gurus and thinking of sikhs??does it even matter our Gurus' ancestor was some ram chander, ram nath, ram kumar, etc.??if u think Mr. Ram was ordinary guy/king, whats the point bringing this useless issue?!? WJKK WJKF 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sardar Moderator Singh Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 A similar topic was started somewhile ago on this section, which may tie in with this discussion:- http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...opic.php?t=3635 VahegurooJeeKaaKhalsa VahegurooJeeKeeFateh! The Article below (or variations of it) can be found on many Sikh sites today, however as is often the case, shouting the loudest does not necessarily entail your view will be heard or indeed successful in the manner you perhaps most need it to be. Sikhs, like many numerical minorities in India, have been subject to the continual direct and indirect political onslaught from the Hindutva agenda. This has over the course spread with these communities across the globe as the Diaspora has expanded. Discussions, posts, opinions, websites, articles, books and even organisations seeking to address, highlight, counter these issues can be found at every turn, yet we have seen little in the way of change, the Hindutva Agenda has grown stronger and more accepted, given the political power presently controlling India it is hardly surprising and avid adoption of censorship and McCarthy type hysteria amongst Sikhs themselves. This submission is not intending to discuss the politics or motives of the Hindutva Agenda, as this is a huge topic which merits a larger discussion and investigation, but rather focus on the following article which is perhaps one of the most circulated in the UK and US amongst the Sikh Youth. My reasons for bringing this up, is because the threats posed by the likes of the RSS are very real, but more so given the knee-jerk reaction that Sikhs have developed over the past 150 years to anything deemed Hindoo, the process in the 21st century, some 300 years after the establishing of the Khalsa Panth, Sikhs themselves have begun to disown many facets that are integral in the formation of their proud history and heritage. Recent events such as the increasing Anti-Dasam Granth stance found across the Diaspora, dubious motives behind the white washing historical murals in Sikh Gurdwaras, changing key dates in the Sikh Calendar, shortening of various banis and denial of many others are all indicative of this trepidation. Whilst there is much discussion that can be brought out of this article concerning matters such as the definitions, origins and understandings of the terms ‘culture’, ‘Hindu’, ‘religion’ and ‘Panth’, I would like to focus our attention on two key statements within the article which fall within the above described scenario:- • RSS believes that Sikhs are descendents of Kush and Luv, mythological Hindu figures. This clearly needs further investigation, for the Sodhi and Bedi dynasties are descendents of Luv and Kush, the sons of Ram Chander, as Guru Gobind Singh himself indicates in the Bachittr ‘Natak’. Again, why are we denying our heritage? This is not too far a cry from Wahabi Muslim Fundamentalists who deny any non-muslim ancestry in the families prior to conversion and continously bark on about how ‘Islam khatrey me hai’ (Islam is in Danger), funny how they also propagate it to be the fastest growing religion! Any in event, surely being descendents of Luv and Kush, this qualifies all sons and daughters of Guru Gobind Singh (i.e. those who accept Khanda da Paul and live by its authority) to royal descent in India and hence, not only can the Khalsa be regarded protectors of Hindus (which by the RSS’s own definition is one born in India), but the Khalsa also have true lineage to rule India. Moreover, since it has become tradition in India to deify famous rulers and kings like Sri Ram Chander, the Khalsa as descendents and true holders of royal rights are indeed worthy of worship, as stipulated in the Sarabloh Granth (“Khalsa mero Satguru Pooraâ€). Some may say this is fanciful and far fetched, maybe, but how does denying the words of the Guru, denying our ancestry and lineage help in raising awareness or combating the anti-Sikh agendas of the RSS? It is not too hard to see from here why the strong anti-Dasam Granth stance is on the increase within the Sikh Diaspora and our temporal leaders in the SGPC further agitate this through their effective ban on discussing this material! • RSS members read Guru Gobind Singh’s bani in their Shakhas to attract Sikhs. They claim Guru Gobind Singh was a Suryavanshi. Again, as mentioned above, Guru Gobind Singh was Suryavanshi, as a creator of ‘true’ Kshatriyas (the Khalsa) and descendent of the Suyavanshi lineage of Sri Ram Chander why should we have issue with this, rather we should propagate this amongst the followers of Ram Chander in India and request they honor their true rulers and pay due homage to us…sounds too bizarre, then why recite ‘Raj Karega Khalsa’ with so much zest? • In their publications, RSS claimed Sikhs were Hindus by using hymns from Chandi-di-Var. In fact, these hymns had never appeared in Chandi-di-Var. Again, banning discussion, denial of Dasam Bani and of our history and heritage has led to this gross state of ignorance amongst our people that they fall foul of such tactics. I welcome the forum’s thoughts on this matter and would be grateful for any clarification of elements that I may have overlooked or misunderstood. Gur Fateh! Niranjana. WHO IS THE RSS? The Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and its plans for the Sikh nation “Sikhs are a panth of the Hindus and not a separate religion†Mr K C Sudershan, sarsangchalak of RSS, April 29, 2000. MISSION AND ACTIVITIES OF THE RSS • RSS was created over 75 years ago to spread Hindu culture. • The group is organised through Shakhas, camps where members meet and train. • The daily prayer of the RSS is sung before Bhagava Dhwaj (Saffron flag), which is regarded as the supreme Guru. No individual is a ‘Guru’. • The slogan of RSS is ‘Bharat Mata ki Jai’. • The mission of RSS is to unite and rejuvenate the ‘Bharat’ nation on the sound foundation of Hindu Dharma. • RSS is striving for a strong and united Hindu society and the vision of Hindutva. • The RSS definition of ‘Hindu’ is anyone born and belonging to India. This includes Sikhs, Buddhists and Jains. • RSS is opposed to anyone who tampers with India’s unity and integrity. • RSS has 30,000 branches in India and 35 abroad. • The Rashtriya Sikh Sangat is the ‘Sikh’ wing of RSS with 135 co-ordinating committees in Punjab. • The Rashtriya Sikh Sangat group was formed in Punjab in 1986 claiming to promote SikhÂHindu relations. How is the RSS attacking the Sikhs? Over the last two years, the RSS has intensified its attention on Sikh affairs in Punjab. At every given opportunity, it has tried to build inroads into Sikh institutions and attacked the basic Sikh philosophy and way of life. • RSS believes that the Khalsa was only created to protect Hindus. • RSS believes that Sikhs are descendents of Kush and Luv, mythological Hindu figures. • Mr KC Sudarshan, sarsangchalak of RSS, said that the Sikhs are merely a sect of Hinduism. • During the 1980’s, RSS members stoned Sikhs during Gurpurbs. • On Jan 5, 2001, RSS made plans to take Sri Guru Granth Sahib into Hindu temples. They wished to place Guru Ji side-by-side with Hindu idols. • During the tricentenary celebrations of the Khalsa in 1999, the RSS published over 100,000 leaflets in Punjab, distorting both Gurbani and Sikh history. • Kanwarpal Singh, a teacher of Gatka for 20 years, was recently approached by RSS and asked to shut down his ‘Sher-e-Punjab Akhara’ to focus on training RSS cadets. He refused. • RSS members read Guru Gobind Singh’s bani in their Shakhas to attract Sikhs. They claim Guru Gobind Singh was a Suryavanshi. • In their publications, RSS claimed Sikhs were Hindus by using hymns from Chandi-di-Var. In fact, these hymns had never appeared in Chandi-di-Var. • RSS lowered the image of Guru Gobind Singh Ji by saying he was just a ‘national’ hero of Bharat. • 50,000 students in Punjab recently took a ‘general knowledge test’ organised by the RSS. This was an anti-Muslim and anti-Sikh test. • RSS recently published a pamphlet called ‘Sada Virsa Sada Gaurav' copying the title of Guru Gobind Singh Circle’s monthly magazine. • RSS recently distributed pictures of the Gurus on a cow, giving milk which the RSS called Amrit. http://www.sikhlionz.com/rss.htm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikher Posted May 12, 2004 Report Share Posted May 12, 2004 What a joke, a person who finds Guru (Satguru) you cannot change their mind what ever people write/propogate (Saffron flag)??? Bring back the Blue http://www1.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ar...show/236936.cms "Raghubir claimed that RSS had earlier taken out a similar yatra during the tercentenary of birth of Khalsa from Patna Sahib to Anandpur Sahib which was led by Parmanand Ji Maharaj. He claimed that chief of Damdami Taksa, Baba Thakur Singh had welcomed the yatra and had arranged for the langar at Chowk Mehta. " Please Explain this ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
challenge_everything Posted May 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2004 Bhen ji don't you think it's interesting and valuable to the Panth to research where our Guru's are descended from? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 I found following article written for the same Bedi and Sodhi dynasties. http://srec.gurmat.info/srecarticles/srida...idynasties.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
challenge_everything Posted May 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 thank you admin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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