39 replies to this topic

[N30 S!NGH]

I agree there are loads of good things in prem sumarag granth. However just like any rehitnamas, this granth should be carefully anyalized to see if some of advise in the granth should be used in this day and age.

For eg:

on page 19 it is written that you should slander the Prophet if you are being attacked by a muslim. It talks about how if turk wanted to take khanda di pahul.. khalsa should bury their body up to neck in sand first so that their tat(elements) could be purified, it also talks about turkh who wants to convert should eat pork for 51 days in order to "purify" them from their muslim background (page 54)


page 93 talks about women being veiled and in the chapter on marriage it is said that the bride should wear a burka. Has this been a practice among sikhs in the early days? It says all women except prostitutes should wear a purda.


on page 68 it talks about women and their period and says that a woman should bathe three days after her period has ended. does is mean she can't bathe in between?

I like to particularly quote post from shaheediyan veer anyalsis on this. He wrote on this forum which i agree 100%.

Quote

Prem Sumarg represents evolved local traditions and maryada, as do most rehitnamai , with the primary basis having an authentic foundation, and it have being added to since, reflecting the Khalsa's changing environment and challenges over time.

It should be read with above quote kept in mind.

[Kaljug]

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on page 19 it is written that you should slander the Prophet if you are being attacked by a muslim. It talks about how if turk wanted to take khanda di pahul.. khalsa should bury their body up to neck in sand first so that their tat(elements) could be purified, it also talks about turkh who wants to convert should eat pork for 51 days in order to "purify" them from their muslim background (page 54)

This is probably an old tradition that was recorded in PSG later with a newer justification. I believe it is a carry over from when the Khalsa were at war with Mughals - the practice was simply to guard against Muslim spies seeking to infiltrate the Panth's armies.

In psychological terms, it is a way to cut off ties with one's past religion and one's loyalties to the Islamic Mughal rulers.

The "purification" reasoning seems to be a later Hinduised addition.

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page 93 talks about women being veiled and in the chapter on marriage it is said that the bride should wear a burka. Has this been a practice among sikhs in the early days? It says all women except prostitutes should wear a purda.

Sikh women have never worn burkhas, except in modern times in places where it is a cultural norm, e.g., Afghanistan.

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on page 68 it talks about women and their period and says that a woman should bathe three days after her period has ended. does is mean she can't bathe in between?

I'm guessing that this means the woman needs to take full ishnaan after three days but can still do 5 ishnaan or normal everyday washing before nitnem. This also seems like it has Brahmin influence. Since when do Sikhs consider menstruating women to be ritually unclean?

PSG is a great look into the minds of influential Sikhs of the time (the chapter on statecraft implies that the granth was written by someone who was part of the ruling elite), but many of the suggested practices would not be acceptable according to modern Sikh standards.

Regards,
K.

[dalsingh101]

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Sikh women have never worn burkhas, except in modern times in places where it is a cultural norm, e.g., Afghanistan.

Does anyone know what a khund is? Or should I spell it khoond. Is it some sort of face covering worn by Panjabi women in days of old. Also, are we sure the injunction is only covering the marriage ceremony and not meant to be a general order?

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This is probably an old tradition that was recorded in PSG later with a newer justification. I believe it is a carry over from when the Khalsa were at war with Mughals - the practice was simply to guard against Muslim spies seeking to infiltrate the Panth's armies.

In psychological terms, it is a way to cut off ties with one's past religion and one's loyalties to the Islamic Mughal rulers.

I am inclined to agree with this. We must remember that the Khalsa was facing numerically superior forces from Delhi, Afghanistan and Persia during this period. Fact is, they were generally Muslim forces who were conditioned to view the destruction of Sikhs as some religious duty (jihadis). Even if their attacks were more to do with plunder, slavery and control.

Given the odds, it is not surprising that the Khalsa took such dramatic measures to ensure new initiates truly renounced their former beliefs/prejudgices. Conversely, it also shows an openess for marriage and conversion back then that hasn't carried through to modern times.

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but many of the suggested practices would not be acceptable according to modern Sikh standards.

Is there ANY older manuscript that doesn't contain such things. lol

[dalsingh101]

Another thing I noticed in the text was the belief of the return of the Guru to bring about Satyug again. Sambhal was mentioned as the place of the re-emergence.

[Matheen]

dalsingh101, on Jul 9 2009, 06:56 PM, said:

Another thing I noticed in the text was the belief of the return of the Guru to bring about Satyug again. Sambhal was mentioned as the place of the re-emergence.

The characteristics given e.g. not casting a shadow are similar to the alleged attributes of Mohammed and Imam Mehdi's reappearance. Sambhal is mentioned in Dasam Granth as the place where Kalki will take birth, it seems the author believes Guru Sahib and Kalki are the same, like some of the Sau Sakhis. This isn't the case.

Regarding Burkhas - wasn't it forbidden for women to wear veils that covered their faces in Guru Ji's darbar.

[dalsingh101]

Who is Imam Mehdi?

Regarding the burka, I think it was just some ceremonial thing thing for a wedding only. I've seem bridegrooms face covered by some gold tinselly looking thing hanging from their paghs before.

[dalsingh101]

Seeing as you are all rushing to answer my question on Mehdi......


Found this on wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdi

What or who do people think kalki is?

[dalsingh101]

Found this on kalki.

http://www.gurmatpar...le=Kalki_Avtaar

[Matheen]

dalsingh101, on Jul 10 2009, 03:15 PM, said:

Found this on kalki.

http://www.gurmatpar...le=Kalki_Avtaar

I think he's got it wrong - read what Guru Sahib wrote in Sri Dasam Granth, it's at the end of Chaubis Avtar.

Imam Mehdi is best not discussed on this forum, lol, but he is the 12th Imam of the Shias and allegedly in occultation. Shia Muslims are waiting for his reappearance to come and save the world. There's alot of info on shiachat.com, if you want to know more.

IMHO, it shows that Prem Sumarag is a compilation of writings from different people, who have been influenced by the religions around them.

[amardeep]

Marad ka chela is mentioned in a prophecy by Guru Nanak to come.. in bhai gurdass singhs vaars bhai gurdass says Guru Gobind Singh is marad ka chela, and in prem sumarag it says the content of the prem sumarag will be followed when marad ka chela returns (see the final two pages)