CdnSikhGirl

There is a reason so many different paths have put emphasis on mantras. Everything in the Universe is really just energy vibrating slow enough to manifest as something solid. What we experience as matter however is still just energy in a slow state of vibration. Quantum physics has already discovered that consciousness can affect (and create) matter. Vibration being the base of everything makes sense. Heat, light, sound, radio, electromagnetic, radiation, microwaves, etc are all just different spectrums of the same thing. Even an atom is in perpetual motion. Mantras are creating sounds which will have influence in the physical (and other) realms. I have not watched yet but I will.

Shouldn't that have been... "You have the right to remain HUNGRY." Lol sorry could not resist!

I think it's a good idea to share because it gives people ideas of things they can do outside of the gurdwara... So intention was not to start an ego stroking thread...

I don't think that Sikhi relies on magic, or superstitions to find God. In very simplest terms, Sikhi tells us one thing. God is within YOURSELF. Rest is building on that message. But the base message is that we are not these physical bodies, we are not even these identities we think we are. Remove the false ego identity and what is behind, the DOER, the EXPERIENCER... that IS us. And there is only ONE DOER. The message is go within yourself to find God. Remember... Just like a drop of water is part of the ocean, and when separated from the ocean, it is still water. But the thing is, we are the drops, and we have never actually left the ocean which is Waheguru, we just forget we were here. We don't need to be celibate, we don't need to pray to idols, we don't need to do useless rituals, even when we mathatek to SGGSJ, it's not the physical pages or ink we are bowing to. It's the truth contained within. Because God = Truth. Truth = God. Guru = God. There is ONE base truth to the Universe. People get so hung up on following a ton of rules, rituals and eventually it becomes about the rituals, and the original reason for them has been lost. Intimacy (within marriage) is part of this life. People keep thinking kaam = sex. It's not!!!! There is a reason why gurbani keeps comparing our merging back with waheguru as like husband and wife relations... its because intimacy, in that moment, when done without kaam (meaning without craving for only physical pleasure) when done as a pure act of love for your spouse and your energies merge literally... its akin to the merging of us with waheguru, albeit on a small scale. But its probably the closest we can get to what merging of our energy with another entity is like. Truth has been found by many people in the world, not only Sikhs. And many without following rules upon rules that in the end, seem to not even matter anymore because all of this you see around you, is transitory. I don't know if I can explain any better.

That is love for sure. But it is not the only true love. And it doesn't say it's only example of true love... What about love of the soul for Waheguru which Gurbani speaks of? When you recognize Waheguru in ALL you feel that love for a humans to the point that seeing someone experience an ounce of happiness after a life filled with tragedy it brings tears to your eyes. Or even the beauty of nature itself brings tears. There are many examples...

Understand this is a forum. People will have disagreements. I don't care if any of you nindya my alias till the cows come home but please I ask don't use my real name. I have had to change my alias on here already due to possible damage in my real life because of member chatanga. I know even with strong emotions etc on here that none of you want to actually hurt someone's real life. If you do then you are not very nice person. Please leave forum things to forum things. Again if you want to nindya me please nindya my forum personality and leave my real life alone. I am sure you would not like it if someone did it to you. The same goes for anyone else on here. It's not funny and it's not a joke.

@dalsingh101 Please ask Paapiman to as well. I don't care how much we disagree on here but please dont bring this to real life. I dont think any one of you would actually wish harm to someone in real life.

Mods please remove my real name. (well former real name) as its all fun and games on a forum where everyone hides behind aliases but I am sure none of you would want to actually damage someones real life. If you do, then there is something wrong with you. You can nindiya my alias all you want, but please leave me real name out of this! Some please tell Paapiman to edit his post!

@Rock Therein lies the difference. Intimacy is NOT lust. Lust is overindulgence, sexual desire which is out of control, craving. Normal relations between husband and wife are not lust. Lust means to crave sex for physical pleasure only. However there is a dimension to intimacy between husband and wife which is way beyond physical pleasure. It touches all three, physical, emotional, spiritual all at once. It's literally two people's energy merging. There is a reason why Gurbani likens us merging back with creator to that of a bride / husband relationship. (husband lord / soul bride) because really the physical is illusion. Everything is energy. On a small scale you are experiencing merging of two entities into one, on that energy level.

I'm giving you benefit of the doubt. I understand its not a quick thing. But I'd like to see your translation rom original... you know I would LOVE to see some other meaning from these!!

Please get the original and then post an accurate english translation if you think the above is wrong... if there is a different meaning in the original, then I will eat my words. But in the English version above that paapiman posted, it is just a straight forward message about not trusting women (again).

Mark my words, in 10 years I will post that nothing has changed...

Trust me, I am perfectly capable of deriving deeper meanings from Gurbani. ANd I have posted some on here talking of hypocrisy etc But I just don't see it in this. These are written in a very direct format and then the message is emphasized at the end. If it were meant to be an allegory for some deeper meaning it would not end with the message "don't trust women"

Except charitar does not mean 'difference in psychology' it means deception, trick, charm. Its saying even the Gods can't fathom the deceptions of women, trickery of women. That's the end statement of it. It's emphasizing the trickery the maid used to have them killed, instead of emphasizing the violence against her which caused it. When you put emphasis on something, it means that is the important message to take away. Like the rahao lines in Gurbani. What is emphasized in rahaho line in a shabad, puts the rest of the shabad's message into context. Similarly, these lines at the end emphasize the message is the trickery the maid used to have them killed and not her being severely beaten, which aside from the first few lines is not mentioned again.

If you don't think it can be spiritual you have not met the right person. I can't even explain the connection I have with my husband. It's on a level way beyond physical or emotional. There is no lust. Both of us looked for a certain person inside, and never minded with looks at all. We spent several years getting to know each other and two trips to India without even touching each other prior to marriage. We do nitnem together, our last thing before bed is kirtan sohila together. We do kirtan together, we often discuss Gurbani. Our marriage is basically built on spirituality and not lust at all.

Yes, but look at what the last line says: The womans heart may be captured, but never let her steal your heart. Providing her myriads of victuals (basic necessities only) just keep her satisfied. The Gods such as... can't copy and paste you can read it... none could fathom the charitars of women. This last bit is the moral message is it not? And it doesnt say whether she was beaten by the wife or the trader himself. (Its quite possible it was both) Just says that she was beaten severely. And yes everything happened BECAUSE of that. But then, the warning at the end is don't trust women. (its pointing the finger at the maid) Even the Gods can't fathom the charitars of women. Don't let women steal your heart. Why wouldn't it say instead don't hurt people, don't beat up your maid? etc? Don't try to water it down. It's saying women can't be trusted.

wow gee another story pointing finger at (apparently) the woman. However, we know even today when people are subjected to violence, it affects their mental state. There have been women who were abused by their boyfriend / husband etc. and eventually after so much abuse just snapped and killed the husband. And they were acquitted in trial. What is worse, years and years of abuse and violent outburst causing someone physical harm, purposely, or snapping under mental state and killing someone (accidentally) it's usually rage and they don't intend to kill. Someone who was beaten, it's usually not the first time. The story even says it was severe beating. However the writer doesn't even focus on the beating but then proceeds to write the story painting the maid as the aggressor and the one who is bad and doesn't even address the beating. This is why I have such trouble believing Guru Gobind Singh Ji wrote these... why would our Gurus wrote about physical violence in a way that almost condones it? And then point the finger at the victim because of what happens as a result? Its like women being raped and being blamed for poking out the rapists eye in order to escape, while ignoring the rape itself, or even worse blaming her for the rape too! It's evident because the last few lines... instruct men to allow the woman's heart to be captured but never let her capture your heart (in other words the message is never trust a woman). The big final message of this charitar is never trust a woman (never let her capture your heart??!!!) What??!! Seriously??!!! You have to be kidding me!!!! We have a woman (maid) being beaten up by the Trader (and/or) his wife. And the final big lesson of this is don't trust women??? p.s. I dont care who calls me guru nindak.

Similarly a spouse who is deeply spiritual connection with you, can be your best ally for reaching God as you help each other on the path. Husband and wife become one soul in two bodies. If they are on the same path together towards Waheguru, its a very beautiful thing. Texts like the above seem to try to assert that women in general are not trustworthy. Paapiman is one on here who seems to keep posting these things which suggest women are negative. That highlighted part above, starts out saying prostitute but very quickly switches to say 'women'. I find this very offensive to the female gender. Anyway I just noticed the Ohm symbol, so it must be a Hindu text. And laws of Manu do say women are obstacle to men's spirituality. Luckily we are not Hindu and do not follow laws of Manu.

Women don't smell like dry blood if they actually practice hygiene! Maybe if they use external pads only. Most women I know in modern world don't use these. They were like diapers but nobody likes them anymore for that reason. Hygiene products have come a LONG way! I posted here before a medical grade silicone product that a woman wears INSIDE that keeps any fluid inside for up to 12 hours. Once she inserts it, and washes herself, there is absolutely NO reason for ANY smell! I mean, there is no blood to cause any smell! SO how can it?? Even tampons work inside and same thing, they won't cause any smell either until removed. So today's products make it like she is not even menstruating! We are WELL past the days where women shoved old rags in their pants to catch the blood. I am sure that could cause hygiene issues but not the products of today. I dont hate men... why do you people think that trying to reverse men's hatred of women, means we hate men??? I mean unless we allow men to keep putting women down and placing restrictions on us, unless we keep enduring these limitations while shutting up and not saying anything, then it automatically becomes 'you hate men' this is ridiculous! Its like a slave claiming they deserve freedom, and the slave master replying, you hate me. Its not about YOU its NOT about men! It's about women being limited COMPARED to men! (before accusing women of hating men, please address your own hatred of women first! Ask yourself, if a woman is asking for EQUAL treatment and opportunity, how does that equal hatred of men, when men advocating for LESS rights and opportunities for women somehow does not equal hatred of women? Huge double standard! Check your own self first!)

Kaam does NOT mean sex. Or even lust! Kaam is any UNCONTROLLED craving or desire. One can crave expensive cars or jewellery or even food. And that will be kaam! But we will never say that answer is to cut out having a car all together. Or food! Sexual intimacy between husband and wife is normal. It's NOT KAAM. Unless it becomes an excess craving or desire. Which yes CAN happen even in marriage but most normal married couples are not sex addicts! Intimacy is a normal part of relationship between two people who love each other. Otherwise, if you don't want to be intimate with someone, then don't get married!

And by the way Kaam does not mean Sex. Kaam is any uncontrolled desire. One could be longing for expensive cars, jewellery etc and it is considered kaam. But people think normal intimacy in a marriage means kaam. Its not. The emphasis is not on owning a car, or some jewellery but the excessive craving for these things, same as sex.

If the Gurus produced children without intercourse please show the proof. All of the Gurus were advocating normal householder life and even Guru Gobind Singh Ji said to increase the love with your spouse as much as you can, but never even in your dreams go to the bed of another (proof he was speaking of physical relations and not just the emotion of love). Also the shabad posted by akalpurkh is NOT speaking about hypocrisy as suggested by Paapiman. If you read the entire shabad (by devotee Kabir Ji) it is speaking against practices of the yogis, including celibacy, as means to obtain the divine. As we know, the Gurus were against useless rituals. They keep reminding us over and over that you don't need to do all these false things, useless rituals to find God. Because God is within your own mind. The way to find God is through your own mind. Pay attention to the rahao line... ਗਉੜੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ ॥ गउड़ी कबीर जी ॥ Ga▫oṛī Kabīr jī. Gauree, Kabeer Jee: ਨਗਨ ਫਿਰਤ ਜੌ ਪਾਈਐ ਜੋਗੁ ॥ नगन फिरत जौ पाईऐ जोगु ॥ Nagan firaṯ jou pā▫ī▫ai jog. If Yoga could be obtained by wandering around naked, ਬਨ ਕਾ ਮਿਰਗੁ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਸਭੁ ਹੋਗੁ ॥੧॥ बन का मिरगु मुकति सभु होगु ॥१॥ Ban kā mirag mukaṯ sabẖ hog. ||1|| then all the deer of the forest would be liberated. ||1|| ਕਿਆ ਨਾਗੇ ਕਿਆ ਬਾਧੇ ਚਾਮ ॥ किआ नागे किआ बाधे चाम ॥ Ki▫ā nāge ki▫ā bāḏẖe cẖām. What does it matter whether someone goes naked, or wears a deer skin, ਜਬ ਨਹੀ ਚੀਨਸਿ ਆਤਮ ਰਾਮ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ जब नही चीनसि आतम राम ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Jab nahī cẖīnas āṯam rām. ||1|| rahā▫o. if he does not remember the Lord within his soul? ||1||Pause|| ਮੂਡ ਮੁੰਡਾਏ ਜੌ ਸਿਧਿ ਪਾਈ ॥ मूड मुंडाए जौ सिधि पाई ॥ Mūd mundā▫e jou siḏẖ pā▫ī. If the spiritual perfection of the Siddhas could be obtained by shaving the head, ਮੁਕਤੀ ਭੇਡ ਨ ਗਈਆ ਕਾਈ ॥੨॥ मुकती भेड न गईआ काई ॥२॥ Mukṯī bẖed na ga▫ī▫ā kā▫ī. ||2|| then why haven't sheep found liberation? ||2|| ਬਿੰਦੁ ਰਾਖਿ ਜੌ ਤਰੀਐ ਭਾਈ ॥ बिंदु राखि जौ तरीऐ भाई ॥ Binḏ rākẖ jou ṯarī▫ai bẖā▫ī. If someone could save himself by celibacy, O Siblings of Destiny, ਖੁਸਰੈ ਕਿਉ ਨ ਪਰਮ ਗਤਿ ਪਾਈ ॥੩॥ खुसरै किउ न परम गति पाई ॥३॥ Kẖusrai ki▫o na param gaṯ pā▫ī. ||3|| why then haven't eunuchs obtained the state of supreme dignity? ||3|| ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਨਰ ਭਾਈ ॥ कहु कबीर सुनहु नर भाई ॥ Kaho Kabīr sunhu nar bẖā▫ī. Says Kabeer, listen, O men, O Siblings of Destiny: ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨੁ ਕਿਨਿ ਗਤਿ ਪਾਈ ॥੪॥੪॥ राम नाम बिनु किनि गति पाई ॥४॥४॥ Rām nām bin kin gaṯ pā▫ī. ||4||4|| without the Lord's Name, who has ever found salvation? ||4||4|| Now if what paapiman said was correct, that its somehow saying that celibacy AND remembering the Lord in your mind / soul are required for salvation, then it is also saying that wandering around naked is required! Both ideas, celibacy and wandering naked are presented and condemned in the exact same way! So if you are saying one is encouraged (but just not by itself) then the other one is too! So why aren't they running around naked while they are practicing celibacy? Except... that's not it. The shabad is clearly condemning these useless rituals as a means to find God. Because it tells us God is within our own mind and soul and we can only find God with naam. This is danger of taking single tuks out of context of the shabad! Anyway this is just my opinion and I am sure it will be ripped to pieces and people will nindiya me again.

That is really great seva! I remember when I was younger my great grandmother was in a nursing home. (It was necessity as she was not only requiring heavy physical specialized care but was also combative with alzheimers) but we still visited often, decorated her room as if were home etc. But I remember some of the residents their families didn't even visit. They were always alone. Even worse some places just medicate combative residents to make them better to deal with. It's sad. I won't pretend to know how to deal with advanced alzheimers but there has to be a better way than medicating them to the point of drooling and staring off into space :( We must never forget our elders and what they have done earlier in our lives.

If cleanliness is an issue (and not purity) then the very FIRST seva someone with a hygiene issue should be barred from is making food for others because of food poisoning. Seva of SGGSJ would not be the first thing restricted as sangat can't get food poisoning from that. However I don't think anyone will argue that women on their period will cause unhygienic conditions in the kitchen (after all women DO know how to wash their hands and use hygiene products!). If they are not causing cleanliness issues when cooking, then there is no reason they can't sit on the tabiya. So obviously the issue is not cleanliness. You say 'ritual cleanliness' which is just another colourful way to say purity. Because we have already established it has nothing to do with actual cleanliness or hygiene. The Gurus spoke against purity or ritual washing as a means to be holy: ਸੂਚੇ ਏਹਿ ਨ ਆਖੀਅਹਿ ਬਹਨਿ ਜਿ ਪਿੰਡਾ ਧੋਇ ॥ Sūcẖe ehi na ākẖī▫ahi bahan jė pindā ḏẖo▫e. They are not called pure, who sit down after merely washing their bodies. ਸੂਚੇ ਸੇਈ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਜਿਨ ਮਨਿ ਵਸਿਆ ਸੋਇ ॥੨॥ सूचे सेई नानका जिन मनि वसिआ सोइ ॥२॥ Sūcẖe se▫ī nānkā jin man vasi▫ā so▫e. ||2|| Only they are pure, O Nanak, within whose minds the Lord abides. ||2|| We can see from the above that purity in God's eyes has nothing to do with washing your body. You can wash it a million times but unless your mind is pure you will still be covered in dirt. It was brought up before, a man can ejaculate from lust and take a bath and do seva of SGGSJ right away after? Even though he just did something which involved lust? But a woman who has no lust on her mind at all but is menstruating because Waheguru gave her that function, can not? Its obvious those who think so are putting MORE emphasis on physical washing than purity of mind. But Gurbani tells us that physical washing is not what is important, purity of the mind is. It's just like any other religion that restricts women because of periods. Men find it disgusting because they don't understand it, so they think it makes women unclean or impure and not worthy of seva or religious service. These rules are coming from men and not God. Anyway regardless of what people's personal views are, there fact is, in Sikhi there is no formal restriction saying women can't do seva of SGGSJ while menstruating. This was straight from SGPC. There is no restriction in Sikh Rehet Maryada either. So leave it up to the Singhnis to decide if they feel up to it or not. Having SGGSJ at home is no different. SGGSJ is the same regardless of where the saropp is located. This is from a prominent site: Obviously she is wrong, it's not absent, as this site proves. But it should be absent. It's absent in Gurbani and what the Gurus taught.

I hope this is only speaking about prostitutes and not women in general.