CdnSikhGirl

Also took these this past November...

WJKK WJKF I just want to say hello. I was referred here by someone else, who suggested this was a very good place for discussion of spiritual / philosophical aspects of Gurbani etc. Myself, I am a gori Canadian girl, who found Sikhi in my 20's after a lot of comparative religion and deep inner journey, which stemmed from some deeply spiritual experiences I had when I was younger. I eventually ended up on the path to Sikhi because when I read SGGSJ for the first time (in English) things just 'clicked' and I literally got shivers reading it. That was over 5 years ago. I have been going to the gurdwara here locally for over 3 years now (99.9% Punjabi Sangat - I never came to Sikhi from 3HO... just want to make that clear since lots of people automatically think white = 3HO and I am not) Anyway I am heading to India for the second time - just 3 weeks from now and I am taking Amrit while I am there Hope to get to know you all, recognize some names already... WJKK WJKF

I have actually had numerous OBEs when I was younger, which mostly all happened on their own. They actually scared me at first and then I realized I was ok, so I started experimenting - basically I just let go and let it happen. I actually wrote an ebook on the subject years ago and though it was before I found Sikhi, and hence you won't find any reference to Sikhi in the book, but I did do a lot of research, both scientifically and spiritually into the subject so there are references to several different spiritual paths in the book. Feel free to take a look if you want... http://www.spirit-quest.ca/Spirit-Quest.pdf Those experiences ultimately led me on a spiritual journey to end up eventually in Sikhi. And I am about to take Amrit in Sept when I go back to India.

I took these when I was there in November just past... (It was only 2 days past Diwali)

My personal opinion on this, is that the original five their gender does not matter. Amrit is beyond the phsyical realm. There were only certain castes in the original five as well, and to use the argument that panj pyare MUST be emmulating the original five exactly, then using that argument, a jatt should also never act as panj pyare. Then wehre do we stop? Were all five vegetarian? Were all five etc etc etc... see where this goes? The whole idea of amrit was to bring everyone together on the SAME level as equals. The argument that there were no women in the original five is as valid as saying there were no jatts in the original five. We have to realize that our souls are all equal. One must recognize the divine light within EVERYONE - only when one sees and recognizes this SAME divine light within everyone, will they understand. By separating people into groups of superiority based on gender, on caste etc. goes completely against what our Gurus taught. So yes women can act as Panj Pyare... having a penis does not make someone somehow more spiritual or more qualified to bestow amrit on someone else. If a Sikh receives Amrit, and abides by the SRM then they should be able to bestow that same amrit on others. To say that one person can and another can not, is equal to saying that one person is somehow closer to God than the other... and is putting the other person in a lower light. It's the SAME amrit... our souls are the SAME... in fact we are ALL soul BRIDES. The original five... five SIKHS, five SOULS gave their heads... their gender is only transitory and their penises matter only in matters of reproduction on the physical plane. The gender of the original five means no more than their caste did. Or else as I said no jatt would ever be able act as panj pyare either. All forms of discrimination were removed - caste, colour, etc. and yes even gender. (Why does gender always seem to stand out as somehow being different than any other difference anyway?) I realize many don't see it that way and I think it's because they can't see beyond the physical shells. We are told many times in SGGSJ that these bodies, they are nothing... they are only characters being played and when all the costumes are removed and the play is over - we see that it was the SAME actor who played ALL of them [God] - paraphrased from page 736 SGGSJ. If there really is only ONE, and that ONE is ALL... then how can we say any part of his creation is any less valuable or deserving than any other? Also, just wanted to add... warriors having to be male is bunk... Mai Bhago is who I look up to, and my career is actually in the military (18 years now). I am trained in combat... small arms... etc. Women are stronger than men think. It's only the mindset of men who want to limit us. The strongest of opponents are not those who are brute muscles but those who use their mind and cunning to beat an opponent. Case in point, martial arts teaches how to use an opponents weight and strength against them. I have seen small girls beat larger guys because the larger guys are not as nimble etc. All men are not born with the warrior mentality and not all women are born with nurturing mentality. And both genders can learn both easily... it's only limitations imposed by society that lock gender into specific 'roles'. Case in point, I have never had the nurturing mentality at all... from childhood to now, nearly 40, I have always looked to military career, to lines of work that require stress, even my volunteer work as as a first responder. I have never been interested in traditional womens roles like cooking, cleaning, raising kids, knitting etc. Am I a male in a female body? (Perhaps I should go through gender transition surgery... maybe then I could act as Panj huh??) Anyway, amrit has nothing to do with physical strength... it's entirely a spiritual initiation. And our souls are the SAME. In fact there is only ONE... we need to realize this fact that ALL is ONE. This separateness is illusion, and the more we think like this and create more separateness, then the further we get from becoming ONE. Thinking in terms of gender superiority is EGO. btw AKJ allows women to do Panj Pyare seva... And there are other groups who want to further limit women from even sitting behind SGGSJ. They will not allow women to participate in akhand paath, or do kirtan either. (DDT) And they quote the same arguments. The mentality spreads further... into other restrictions, women are not 'allowed' to do at Sri Darbar Sahib etc. An Amritdhari Bibi friend of mine, once tried to do some seva at Darbar Sahib and was stopped by a Singh who approached her husband, not her... and told him 'Control your Singhni' - as if she was not even a human worthy of actual interaction. This is what happens when one gender dominates the other... and this thinking is EGO. Also regarding the original five I quoted this from another site but it makes sense... "From that conversation we worked out a plausible way out of this direct challenge by pointing out the folklore and history that as many as 80,000 people may have gathered at Anandpur in 1699 when Guru Gobind Singh, the Tenth master, with a naked sword in hand, issued a call for a head. Can you imagine the consternation; surely there were no PA systems and microphones at hand over 300 years ago. If this crowd had to be fed who do you think were cooking and feeding the assembly if not the women? And if there were small children who were they clambering on if not their mothers? In the Indian culture at that time, and even today, when people sit on the floor in large assemblies men and women are somewhat segregated. It is likely that the women perhaps never even heard the call."