DeNiro

The above 2 post by Lucky and Sat veerji help with some contrast. It is really difficult to explain since characteristics change as you climb. Maybe easier to imagine the naad or divine word (mentioned), as a baseline sound. After all, it is the sound that exists everywhere and from which all creation was created. The anhad bani, akath katha, sehaj dhun, toor etc.. all come from this origin. 1) The journey starts when you first begin to hear it faintly. (ring/hum coming from naad) 2) Encounter other sounds as you progress and these are first heard whilst in maya. 3) After going through various maya sounds which I see have been referred to as pavan shabads on previous posts, the person eventually gets into deeper void(sunn). (maya sounds is my way of describing sounds where seeker is still in maya and not in 4th chautha padh) 4) In chautha pad(outside maya), more experiences occur like 5 shabads again, anhad bani, akath katha.... until eventually you get into the true baseline naad again. This time it's different since you are hearing outside if tres-gun maya. You could say it's the true naad and some gurmukhs actually only refer to this sound as the naad. Hence, the confusion. Nevertheless, it's still coming from same source and is still that baseline. Difference is whether you hear it in tres-gun or outside of tres-gun. This is my understanding. Bhul chuk marf if it's contrary to what other gurmukhs or bhai saab may explain.

Thanks. Good to hear from you.

I'll attempt answering whilst i'm online at the moment. The way I understand it and as per some of Tohana sahib's recodrings; the bandgi or bhagti starts when you start listening and merging (samao) into naam shabad. This is also called doing naam seva and is a process of gyaan and dhyiaan. Gurmantar or jap of any mantar of form, written word or 'akaar' as in waheguru, ram ram, hari.. should lead you to the state of hearing the naam that has no written or describable akaar. You could call it the formless stage of hearing the dhun of naam that will lead to amrit and jyot illumination.. I hope you understand it a little better? I believe that it's also when a person starts to re-write their own lekha to some extent.

Nice one veerji. I'd personally add that it's probably only advisable to sit there once your dhyian is geared more in towards the ek shabad/naad. I"m only suggesting since some readers may get confused by try to focus there too early. The tohana sahib recordings warn about this but you know some readers just grab a few pointers and techniques that may be mentioned and then start attempting prematurely. Hope you agree?

lol. I was an infant in 76. Watched the movie in late 80's and became a huge fan. Don't want to go off topic here but a movie is a movie. it can't be classed as gurmat or manmat. The mat is what comes from within the individual as far as I understand. The only focus you want for "next station" is to be as thoughtless and still as possible, ready to surrender your complete self. (That's my personal suggestion). The sound you hear is positive, and by aiming to surrender in a thoughtless state. is the only way I know to help build the love. Trying to conquer different shabads never helped me but as Bhai saab says in recording you have to aim to "samao" into shabad. Please persist with patience because amrit drip and illumination of jot should come in this process. Stay motivated. I've started re-reading posts on here and listening to recordings in order to motivate myself again. Do whatever it takes to achieve this.

Thats real good to know. Will try and call him in few days for a couple of pointers. Thanks

Sat sri akaal to you all. I have not been on here for months and was very busy trapped in noose of maya. Intending to read topics on here to give me some inspiration since my bhagti and nitnem have taken a nose dive. @Sukh_preet you dont need to be confused. Ive listened to the video and it's very good. I can imagine some people getting confused because they are probaly trying to jump ahead. Jumping ahead and looking to expect things is dangerous and not meditation. Read some of the posts in october 2018 where similar advice was given. What you should do is gurmantar jap. Do it quietly and slowly using breath. Then try and go into deeper sunn states by calming. Hearing the ring sound is good. All the sounds of shanka, dholak etc originate from it. Its NOT a matter of looking out for 5 shabads or anything but just doing jap until the baseline shabad ring gets closer. He's right in bideo about people fobbing off the ring and thinking its nothing. The prem builds AFTER the prem for gurmantar. Gotta get that sidh and pakha first before worrying about whats ahead.

Hey Jageera, keeping well? Anger hey? Yeh, it's all normal and many meditators experience it. I suffered the same but was able to self-analyze once it subsided. Simran is a process that starts with cleaning dirt and gandh layers ingrained on our mind. I think people have different types reactions depending on the amount of dirt. Think of it as cleansing toxins or negative energies accumulated on mind. Most of the time we don't know what they are and we subconsciously suppress them. Our inner subtle body can deal up to certain capacity depending on inner strength or praan energy, but once threshold is reached, then the toxins get transformed into other forms to be released and got rid of. They convert to various emotions, like rage, anger, worry, fear lets say, or they can come outwards into physical body and present as ailments. Many abyasees suffer with mild breakouts of skin rash, heat rash etc. or even "garam sareer" leading to fungal type infections. I used to get the same kind of anger issues and later learned they were related to my earlier drinking days and suppression of emotions. Anger is a fire element and it's no wonder that liquor's called "firewater". It creates a lot of work and heat on the liver, which ends up causing extra work/heat on the heart. This results in Anger and Anxiety since they stem from fire. In those days I was in a vicious cycle because as a drinker, I'd get burning desire to go through same cycle of intoxication the next evening. I used to feel that liquor would quench this thirst and put this inner fire out. Furthermore, if I didn't get the drink, then I'd be venting out anger and fighting with those around me. I later realized that I'd been suppressing a lot of emotions with the drink. These were feelings of anger towards people that had hurt me and because I never displayed these to anyone, they led to my own insecurities. I convinced myself I was all man and macho, and hadn't been hurt, but the reality was different. Sorry to ramble a bit here, but the point is that when I started real serious Simran, these suppressed emotions started releasing every time and would leave me feeling angry and tense a few hours later. Most time's I'd be quite calm and serene, but the smallest factor would trigger sudden episodes of rage. I responded by going to gurbani and found many shabads on eradicating the BIK(poison) and putting out the burning fires inside with naam and amrit. It gave me more determination to persevere and stay on the path of gurmat and Simran. I needed to find this naam and amrit, and my journey got more meaning to it. The more Simran you do, the more answers you'll find within yourself. Gurbani tells us to peek inside and stand in front of these inner demons, vikaars we have. I strongly suggest the tips mentioned above by Dalsingh101 and Das. I'm a firm believer in the powers of rock salt for absorbing negativities. On a different note; I was recently advised by member Lucky to try a Himalayan salt lamp and leave it in the area I do Simran in. Pleased to say I've noticed benefits and it really does balance out the ions in the air as well as the pavan in the ida pingala nadis.

A real nice share veerji. If anyone wants more clarity on some of the older posts referred to above on bhaikri, madhma, pasanti, para and rom rom jap, then this video is helpful. Gyani Thakur ji gives a good summary and forum members on those older posts have also given good details of their experiences. I encountered the same sort of scenario as it went back to the navel with a little more force. It's almost as if it goes from throat to navel - to body roms. Then, back again to navel. The navel is like the epicenter and I agree with lucky veer that one can initiate it from there when ever they need to. Walking, sitting, lying down. Personally, I find the lying down the most profound.

Totally awesome veer ji.

Very good advice, This method slows it down but it helps keep the concentration on breath and shabad jap stronger, since you recite one word with each breath with more thiaan. I was advised many years ago to keep it consistent and uniform. As long as there are same amount of breaths and pauses in the same spaces. Example.. ik oankaar=inhale. satnaam=exhale, karta purkh=inhale nirbah nirvair= exhale and so on. Some days I'd switch to a little faster with ik onkaar satnaam=inhale, karta purkh nirbhai nirvair= exhale, akaal moorth ajooni saibhang= inhale , gurprasad jap=exhale .. This was longer and slower breath but doing jap at the throat in a comfortable rhythm. I deduce that mantar can only get pakkah if it's jap with some kind of set pattern, unless you're a blessed vadbhagee with immense kirpa coming your way. I've heard people jap with erratic tempos, and I always doubt if it's bearing as much phaal as than if it were flowing in steady rhythm?

Totally awesome veer ji. I wish I'd stumbled across this a few years ago. Truly valuable.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh 1. First- I recommend reading and working with instructions from the this post and reading from about pages 13 to 22. Some praiseworthy contributions from members like Sat1176 and Lucky veer ji's 2. Second- I have heard similar questions to that you queried on many occasions. You know, about shivers and pressure on forehead. I heard these since someone in family were high kamayee wala gurmukh. (I can't say who they were because sangat may have heard of them). Anyhow, I would say these kind of incidences which students experience at preliminary stages usually confirm you possibly have naam kamayi from previous lives. Think of it as an indicator of potential inside A spiritual potential. Should be a good motivation to try and harness this spiritual force and direct it into an orderly flow. Getting familiar and steady with techniques explained in those pages of thread will be beneficial. Fateh

Wahguru ji ki fateh I couldn't help but feel your situation because I know what it's like. I can only tell you what I know from the way I've handled things. Although its a stage of my life that I'm extremely ashamed of, I'm aware of the darkness and difficulties. I remember how I'd regret most mornings and promise to not do it again. Sadly, just past afternoon, when i'd be more or less fully sober, I'd fall into a sudden slump of depression. Worried about how I would make it through to the night, I'd be craving and planning my evening liquor session. The anxiety, frustration, and just the plain fear of being sober. Sometimes, it was as if I felt naked without any drink and needed it to cover myself up and be presentable. My mind would be working full speed to convince me that tonight it would be okay just this once to get rat-assed again. I went up and down like a yo-yo many times. Problem was that I was looking to fill this hole that everyone looks for. As manukhs, we tend to fill the hole with 5 vices. When I went to AA meetings and was working on step plans, I found myself spending more time at casinos. Although I wasn't drinking, I was frequenting other naughty places as well as squandering thousands in casinos. Now, after 20 years, I realize that the "hole" I was looking for was "naam" and because I never found any naam, I just went from drinking on to other vices. There's people out there addicted to gossip, addicted to tv, addicted to kaam, addicted to violence, addicted to moh of possessions, addicted to moh of relations, lobh of money, lobh of more square feet to own..and so on. Either way, theire lives get consumed by panj doots unless they become Guru ka sikh and start practicing as guru ka sikh. What did I do? - Eventually, I plucked up the courage to start 10,000 mool mantar over 10 days. 1000 /day. This was advised by local gyani and I just took his word for it. He said do it 10 days, no khaana peena, just simple daal roti. Wake at 4am, bathe shower whilst doing Waheguru jap, then sit down cross-legged and do 1000 malas preferably with an extra mala of 108 at the end. Then wait a few days and start again on Sunday. So it went from Sunday to Sunday (8 days inclusive) plus Monday and Tuesday week after (10 days), then a break on wed, thu, fri and Saturday to start again on Sunday. Gyanee told me to go back after a month and see him. When I went back the first time, the first thing he enquired was whether I had fallen off the wagon and hit the bottle after first 10 days. But I hadn't, the vegetarian rehat and maintaining of purity on the outside did somehow cleanse my dirty mann from the inside. After 2 months, I changed my life around and started to focus on nitnem and doing simran with techniques my dad had taught me. I've never consumed any liquor since or even had any urges. After all, it was the urges that were eating me in those days. I strongly suggest you follow official advice as mentioned by soulfinder veer. I honestly believe the 5 vice salok will be beneficial. I explained before how I found myself switching from one vice to another after I started AA. I truly believe that it's our human nature and the 5 dhoots power to fool us this way.Doing the salok in addition is a vey good idea. In the end, it's not just about getting off the liquor, it's about a whole new transformation into a newer you. I remember that during the second mool mantar japs I found myself with lots of physical energy and started powerlifting and pumping weights that I didn't think were possible for me. Doing this will also be beneficial for you if you start with small weights and combo reps.

Wohhh, you're feeling it for sure. The order of changes sounds decent but you should have gotten absorbed in the first shabad sound when it were getting loud.. The crashing airplane like and screeching shouldn't have distracted you away from the loud shabad. Try and aim to drown in the shabad and leave all else behind. Say, you are watching TV and absorbed into something so deeply. Your phone is nearby and it starts ringing. The power of absorption between you and the TV is so high that you may hear the phone ringing in background, but it's not enough to divert your attention from the TV. , The shabad has to be like the TV. and all other thunder like experiences have to be in the background. The roller coater, jet like that you described; ….was that an internal kinetic energy like feel or was it heard. What I mean is, was it a motion like energy inside or was it sound vibration only?

@angy15 Dear Angie, After reading through some responses, I can't help this one question that keeps drawing near me; and that is "Do you do any simran?". Before someone starts to define meaning of simran to what suits them, By simran, I mean jap naam, jap waheguru mantar.? You can call it meditation or whatever you want but I'm referring to the process of chanting waheguru in harmony with breath or in a quiet meditation.t So, do you practice what I mean by simran? Have you ever done simran?

Avoid these at all costs, like I said earlier. It's amazing how many bibian in my own family would be up and about in time for their tv drama show but would give nitnem a lower priority. I stayed with one auntie here in Queens and couldn't help disappointment when I noticed her rushing through nitnem to finish in time for tv drama. My view is slightly different. I don't feel English movies affecting me too negatively. 'I'm okay watching them but I'm very selective and choosy with what to watch. Love to watch anything based on true story. Probably sit through a couple a week, but I'm able to switch off and move attention to nitnem or bhagti after 15-20 minutes and a hot drink.

I have family in the same area that the lady was from. The family I visited a couple of years ago told me about the incidence and another one of their cousins knew this family quite well from the impression they gave. Whether I believe in the lady's story isn't going to make a difference for anything. Anyone who side with the lady, automatically becomes gyani ji's enemy and vice versa. Gurbani is very clear that we shouldn't judge "anyone" and neither should we take sides. I can honestly say that I have problems judging my own actions. I can never be a true judge Nānak parkẖe āp ka▫o ṯā pārakẖ jāṇ. O Nanak, if someone judges himself, only then is he known as a real judge. I've explained what I think of gyani ji earlier. I'm no fan, but I've already taken and learned what I can from his kathas. The first question about believing the lady would be "is she lying" Well, from the character impressions I got; it was hard to imagine this. and no, I hadn't heard anyone mention marital problems at the time. No idea where that came from. I cannot mention the surname of the family or their business since I don't have the right or permission to do so.

btw is your name 'angie' as in 'Angela' ? or are you a bunda ?

You tell me. I know where I'm at with maya, so show me gurbani to educate myself with. Show me "your" understanding of the gurbani and not slap paste some video, because I don't watch them. Look forward to seeing your gurbani education.

ha ha The Truth itself is 'supernatural' and 'mystical' Truth is not maya. Behind the veil of maya is the truth. Do only brahman know what's behind veil of maya? Maybe only brahman knows the supernatural and mystical. I don't know anything about brahmans, so not speaking against them. Don't know much about taksal, nanaksar, akj, so i'd be a fool to speak against them. I learned a little more about naamdharees on another thread, so I can assume they don't know who my guru is. They're not in my boat and my foot's not in theirs. Tell me more on Alif Laila, because I don't know anything about it. If you do, i'll tell you more about Adam and Eve an also my favorite "gingerbread" man story.

your comment was not related to what was quoted really. You started "swinging" about the rehatnama's and SGGS. Read my post carefully. I've explained it clearly and I didn't link any rehatnama to gurbani either. I have no further interest engaging in this topic. I don't think you even know what I meant with "You talkin' to me? (De Niro)

Oh dear, that doesn't sound nice. You tried any natural approaches? changing luminosity, reading lights, breathing, yoga, pranayama, diet, looking for triggers, making note of patterns etc.? No, I avoid watching indian dramas or movies. I find the plots tainting and contaminating for my conscious mind. They come across with crafty nindiya chugleee scenarios. I feel elements of psycho-deceptive schemes in play. i.e. how characters toy with others emotions like nau-sass scenarios or agenda based jealousy traits. It may just be me, but I feel they plant negative subconscious seeds in me. I pick and choose very carefully if I were to watch an indian and the only one I've watched in last 2 years was "Dangal" . I'd read some reviews after a black guy at my gym told me - Amir Khan gained 60 lbs for movie and then lost it in a perfectly timed manner with a difficult regimen. My hero, De Niro had gained the same weight for Raging Bull movie. Dangal was different and not the typical Bollywood churn out that are made within a month or so . If there were another Bollywood that was well produced, carefully directed and based on real elements of truth, then iId watch it after seeing some reviews. Otherwise, I avoid indian at all costs.

"You talkin' to me?"

You got the wrong end of the stick Angie. I'm not speaking on the same wavelengths as Dhunda. He has no idea what the spiritual context of the shabad he quoted is and his interpretation is closed book. I said...….. Dhunda is the one who is misconstruing the shabad and implying that it says "you wear and keep red in gristi Jeevan" This is baloney. The shabad is NOT talking about maya. Do I said (below) Kindly re-read my post carefully and tell me which part you don't understand. We should try helping if we want to learn. No good poking. I have no interest in swinging to and fro. "swinging" isn't gurmat