tSingh

The sakhi is about the issue of Sri Guru Nanak Dev and Raja Janak. Sri Guru Arjan Dev states that Shiva, Brahma, the four maharishis, Sanak, Sanandan, Sanatan and Sanat Kumar, Raja Janak and others were praising Sri Guru Nanak Dev in satyug and put to him that the secret essential purport of the Vedas eluded them. They requested him to take avatar in kalyug to put the essential purport (tatparya) of the Vedas into colloquial language. Later it describes Gurbani as a delineation (tat nirnay) of the supreme truth contained in the Vedas. Perhaps not so surprisingly, both statements are missing from Bhai Vir Singh Ji's edit. Its an interesting sakhi not just for its view about the relationship between the Vedas and Gurbani but also concerning the identity of Guru Maharaj. (less than two years for a reply is pretty good going I reckon)

Just passing through and happened to notice this topic which got me thinking... I've been looking to check a quote from Sikhan Da Bhagatmaal by Bhai Mani Singh Shahid. The one I recently found didn't match. Where my original reference states '...aradhana kita si, jo veda da tatparya ati guhya hai asi pai nahi sakade. jo tusi kirpa kar ke...' the text I was looking at reads 'aradhana kita si, jo tusi kirpa kar ke...' Confusing. Then I looked at the publisher of the second source 'Khalsa Samachar Amritsar (1950)'. Its another 'critical' edition by the great man himself! So I checked a more recent edition by Dr. Harnam Singh Shan, and low and behold the original is there '...aradhana kita si, jo veda da tatparya ati guhya hai asi pai nahi sakade. jo tusi kirpa kar ke...' Clearly Bhai Sahib Ji didn't want us exposed to such claims by Bhai Mani Singh Ji Shahid! I won't be looking at that 1950 edition again. Interesting topic. Keep up the good work. See you in a couple of years!

Because they've only just been printed I'm reluctant, particularly the guru nanak dev university publication which is readily available. I'll try to upload part of mrityuchah pradipika which will be hard to get hold of although be aware its in devanagri not gurmukhi.

While I was in Haridvar I got given a couple of nice new books. One is the June-December 2009 edition of Sri Guru Nanak Dev University, Amritsar, Nanak Prakash Patrika journal which is solely dedicated to the Nirmala Sampradaya. Lots of very interesting essays submitted at the seminar that was held there including ones by Mahant Balwant Singh Ji Secretary, Sant Darshan Singh Ji Shastri and Sant Jail Singh Ji Shastri. The other book I was given is Mrityuchinah Pradipika (Bhasha Tika) by Pandit Deva Singh Ji Vedantacharya written in devanagri back in the early 20th century. Its just been published by Mahant Darshan Singh Tyagmurti Ji of Devapura Ashram and Sant Jodh Singh Ji Nirmal Ashram.

Talking of which, can anyone tell me anything about Sant Baba Karam Singh Ji Chaah Vale of Johal? They also attended the seminar as 'vishesh mahiman'.

Seminar finished. The title was the 'bahupakhi den' of the Nirmale and many pakhis were considered. Maha seva of Sriman 108 Sant Jodh Singh Ji of Nirmal Ashram and Sriman 108 Mahant Balwant Singh Ji Secretary of Panchayti Akhara Nirmala and pradhan of Akhil Bharatiya Akhara Parishad. Many many mahapurush were there who gave wonderful lectures. Very pleased to hear the highly learned pravachans of Sant Darshan Singh Ji Shastri Kashi vale, Sant Jasvinder Singh Ji Shastri and Sant Jail Singh Ji Shasrti, all three part of a new generation of Nirmale. Gyani Sher SIngh Ji Ambale spoke very well about the need for Nirmale to teach the pracharaks in punjab advaitavad (the topic of my paper) in order to combat the prachar of sikh missionary vale. Very impressed with Mahamandaleshvar Mahant Surinder Muni Ji Udasin and the way he spoke about Sant mahapurush generally. My guru Sant Sher SIngh Ji Patiala vale spoke on the origin of the Nirmal Panth which caused small stirs of controversy on the issue of locating the relative place of the Nirmal Panth. Sant Balwant Singh Kotha Guru Ji spoke wonderfully on Gyani Gyan Singh Ji and others. Mahant Amrik Singh Ji spoke on the very interesting topic of the ayurvedic tradition among Nirmale. The full paper should make for very interesting reading. Jathedar Trilochan Singh Ji announced that the recent hukamnama from Akal Takhat about the importance of Udasin and Nirmale, that they are part of the Panth, etc will be printed in english, hindi and punjabi on the SGPC website imminently. The papers submitted will be published as a book by Panchayti Akhara Nirmala... Although nothing is set in stone yet, following my paper and at the request of Sriman Sant Jodh Singh Ji, Sriman Bhekh Bhushan Sri Mahant Ji and Secretary Sahib it was announced before the khat darshani sadhu samaj that I will on behalf of and with the support of Panchayti Akhara Nirmala be arranging and holding the first seminar on the Nirmal Sampradaya in London next year! No info yet on who will be attending from over here in Haridvar. Kam expect an incoming pm requesting your seva!!! In case anyone is interested Sriman Mahant Bhagvant Bhajan Singh Ji will be holding another seminar at Guru Nanak University on the Nirmala Sampradaya and Baba Buddha Ji on the 14th of February (I think).

A bit of shameless advertising in case anyone is floating around India at the moment, (pm me as its invitation only I think): Through the collaboration of Sriman Sant Jodh Singh Ji of Nirmal Ashram Rishikesh and Sriman Mahant Balwant Singh Ji Secretary the Sri Panchayti Akhara Nirmala will be holding a two day seminar on the Nirmala Sampradaya in Kankhal on the 6th and 7th of December. Papers will be given by a number of Sants, Mahants and scholars. Mahapurush attending include: Sriman Nirmal Bhushan Swami Gyandev Singh Ji Vedantacharya Sriman Sant Jodh Singh Ji of Nirmal Ashram Sriman Jathedar Tarlochan Singh Ji of Takhat Keshgarh Sahib Sriman Jathedar Iqbal Singh Ji of Takhat Patna Sahib Sriman Mahant Rajinder Das Ji Kothari, Udasin Bara Akhara Sriman Swami Bhagat Ram Ji, Udasin Naya Akhara Sriman Mahant Ravinder Puri Ji, Mahanirvani Akhara Sriman Mahant Surinder Muni Ji Mahamandaleshvar, Avdhut Jagat Ram Udasin Ashram Sriman Mahant Bhag Singh Ji Nirmal Doaba Mandal Sriman Professor Sant Sher Singh Ji Sriman Dr Jaspal Singh Ji, Vice Chancellor of Punjabi University, Patiala Sriman Sant Baba Karam Singh Ji Johlan Sriman Mahant Teja Singh Ji MA and others Lectures to be given by: Sriman Sant Jail Singh Ji Shastri Sriman Mahant Amrik Singh Ji Amritsar Sriman Sant Gyani Balwant Singh Ji Kotha Guru Sriman Gyani Sher Singh Ji Ambala Sriman Sant Darshan Singh Ji Shastri Sriman Sant Kamaljit Singh Ji Shastri Sriman Sant Jasvinder Singh Ji Shastri Sriman Sant Teja Singh Ji MA Sriman Prof. Paramjit Singh Mansa Sriman Dr Shamsher Singh Ji A paper by myself in English and others Shabad Kirtan by Sriman Sant Pritam Singh Ji Dumelivale and others All papers are to be collated and published by Nirmal Panchayti Akhara afterwards

I agree on McLeod's earlier stuff. But the whole purpose of Harjot Oberoi who gets lumped in with the 'McLeodian school' was to explode the orientalist notions of Sikhi still prevalent in western academia by presenting the reality on the ground in the pre and post British era Punjab. He absolutely succeeds!

.

Again, scroll through the 'sampradaya' section from a few years ago, there's lots on all those subjects here and there.

You'll find most answers to your questions have been posted many times over on this forum. Please use the search button.

Thanks amardeep, very kind of you. Just the reference will do if it saves you some hassle.

I think it would be very very valuable for people to read through these old scriptures! Even to read through Suraj Prakash would be very very useful! Amardeep - the only Nirmala texts I can see in these lists are the works of Pandit Gulab Singh Ji (four of them). The text opens with Ik Ongkar not Ganesh! Ganeshaya Namah means salutations to Ganesh, which in old texts is the custom for undertaking any literary or artistic effort followed by a mangal to Sarasvati. In some of the original texts being translated thats how the text begins itself. Anyone with a cursory understanding of his works will recognise that his ishta is nirgun Braham, since that is what his lengthy text establishes through defeating all other possible philosophies. I recall Kamalroop Singh trying to argue the same that Pandit Gulab Singh Ji worshiped devtas. So please read on...its available on Panjab digital library website. You'll find the same traditional mangals to Sarasvati in Kavi Santokh Singh Ji's works...which I'm sure you'd recognise was not written by a Hindu Purohit. In fact you can see in the old photo a murti of Ganesh placed over the doorway of the Bunga dedicated to the Gyanis in Amritsar in which resided Gyani Sant Singh Ji, granthi of Sri Darbar Sahib, part of the lineage of Damdami Taksal and Kavi Ji's guru. There is also a mistake on the site when it says that Siddhantvind is a work of Sankaracharya. Its undoubtedly the commentary called Siddhant-Bindu on the Dash-shaloki of Sankaracharya written by the 17th Century Sri Madhusudan Sarasvati.

A correction. Nirmalas are expected to go through amrit sanskar. They have been 'Singhs' since their inception. However they don't keep all panj kakkar, only kesh is vital. Sevapanthis nowadays are mostly amritdhari, although not in the past. Udasis never were nor were the Sevapanthis up until the 20th Century. Why? Because they were sadhus who pre-existed the Khalsa Panth and by decree of Guru Maharaj were not expected to uphold the tenets of the shastrdhari tejasvi kshatriya Khalsa Panth. Nirmale are part of the Khalsa Panth but historically were focused on brahamchari, learning and propagating Gurmat rather than fighting.

Interesting points dalsingh. I think you are right about the foreseeable future of Sikh studies. Oberoi sets the blue-print as far as I can see, although I haven't read it in ages, it does have inaccuracies in there. Personally I have no interest in academia per se. That objective critical distance from the subject matter and the study of hermeneutics or use of structuralist/post-structuralist methodologies creates a gulf I'm not willing to create. What an academic sees as an interesting possibility or a relevant insight seems to be determined by what is relevant to that methodology, which itself is a product of that culture. The reason for learning and sharing this knowledge is for right belief, so that makes it a different thing - didactic writing.

dalsingh101 Of course, and there is a notional sympathy for both the early Namdharis and the Singh Sabha in Nirmala literature. The fallout of the Akali lehar is generally criticised. Obstinacy, distortions and fanaticism of the 'neo Sikh' are criticised. Yet there is also criticism of some Udasis, particularly for changing their appearance. We're going off topic

A 'revision' is the act of looking back over things and altering them. We wouldn't be talking about the Singh Sabha if there were not real and lasting changes made to what existed before! The language is fine. And yes, I'm not at all bothered about what this gets labeled as. Its a consistent tradition written large in black ink on discoloured manuscript paper and in the practices of mahapurush from the last few centuries and well before the late 19th Century.

Pre. The differences will constitute a rather lengthy new book I'm half way through writing...so its a bit tricky to summarise! Its a holistic thing too. Some of the differences are subtle and others are quite striking in the sense that they are an affront to some of the well established Singh Sabha revisions of Sikh doctrine. Rehit, interesting. I've no idea what Fenech's talking about there. Could you find the reference for me? I've read a bit of his stuff and it seemed well researched, if more of that academic thing of ever-egging a topic in the name of groundbreaking academia. What have I got that hasn't been published? Sudharam Marg granth which has a section on Nirmale, its part rehit part description of their psyche and practices. It acknowledges both deredar and virakt Nirmale, but mainly describes the practices of the latter. I guess the point is that for social, military and political activity to be fruitful it needs common, agreed upon codes of conduct...which is not to say that its a social and ethical free for all for non-shastardhari Singhs. However, Nirmale are critical of any tendency to consider upkeep of rehit alone being a means to achieve kaivalya moksh, which you get hints of occasionally in some post-Singh Sabha ideologies. That would be a distortion of Gurmat.

Like I said, there is a difference between the older orders and the newer ideology.

This is where older orders diverge from the newer ideology. Although there is nothing stopping us from being both Sant and maha-bir, and there are incredible personalities in the past who were both such as Baba Budha Ji, Baba Sahib Singh Bedi, Sant Bir Singh Naurangabad, etc, in practical terms people generally have a gunic disposition towards one rather than the other. 18th century literature acknowledges internal diversity in the Singh Panth.

I got lost half way down with talk of multiple planes but I think I understand what you're getting at. Its not so intricate - nirgunvaad plus rajya kshatriya dharam = Khalsa panth. Two streams within it - the raj-rishi so culture, ethics and politics of rajya dharam (thats why translations of chanakya rajniti, mahabharat, along with Sri Dasam Granth, etc) or the braham-rishi, so study of brahamvidya, sattvik maryada, sadhana and pursuit of atamgyan. As we all know karam and dharam are intricately connected, all actions are judged in accordance with dharam. Aatam-Braham, being indivisible chetan, is free of action and dharam and no desire or compulsion to act arises within it. Its standard definition as given in classical granths.

Entirely depends on what you take 'adharamang' to mean. Its in all classical descriptions of nirguna braham. Why is this of limited relevance? Because your Satiguru is telling you that a life that has any value is one in which the jiva has gained aatam-gyaan, so investing time and effort into pursuing how we are different and distinct is interesting but not the be all and end all. You're question about how our siddhant is different is conflating the pursuit of brahamgyan with kshatriya dharam. The two are not opposed, but nor are they same thing. All can access brahamgyan and it comes as no surprise that the Khalsa rehitdhari Sikh has no exclusive claim on knowledge of Braham. The external form is the svarup of the Ishvariya Panth given to us by Sri Kalgidhar Swami Ji. This is why Nirmale keep kesh. In principle the treh mudra/panj kakkar are there for upholding and implementing the kshatriya dharam.

In a sense bhakti is bhakti. It would be odd to consider one bhajananandi inferior to another! Yet because our sidhant is different, there are differences. In common with all forms of bhakti i) we have sharanaagati as the perfect state, complete surrender to Bhagvan, the rejection of mamtaa (I-am-ness) and kartritva (I am a causal agent) ii) we have the nine manners of bhakti iii) we have the same states of bhav and ras. Yet we have vairat svarup as the focus, we have the notion that bhakti is necessary for attaining purity prior to the guru-gyan that will bring kaivalya moksh, and we have the gurmantra as revealed by Akal Purakh (these are the sadhanas). For Gurmat Sidhant we do not recognise the four inferior types of moksh (salokya, samipya, etc) as ultimate, only kaivalya moksh of non-difference (hari harijan dui ek hai bib bichar kuch nahi, etc). Bhakti and Advaita Vedanta, it is there...not in dry academic Advaita, but in practice figues like Madhusudan Sarasvati and Sachidanandindra Saraswati were vociferous proponents of bhakti combined with Advaita but like us, they recognised that the essential form of Braham is formless. Personally I find questions of religious identity interesting but of limited relevance. That supreme Braham is singular and has always been a truth that has existed and has been realised as per Gurbani.

In general terms, the symbolic worship (upasana) of Akal Purush in His omnipresent form (vairat svarup) rather than worship through a anthropomorphic physical form (panchbhautik svarup). Our focus (ishta) toward which we enact worship is Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji because we see no difference in identity between Ishvar and Satiguru.

Only a flying visit! Good question. I'll keep it ultra terse and to the point - nirgunvaad, our sadhanas and the place of bhakti.