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Everything posted by chatanga1

  1. A Brahman named "Din" Dayal? Din is a muslim/arab name. Yet it has been given to a Brahman. Telling us that this Brahman is not what he looks. What I found quiet curious in this charitar was the the slightest move of the hand, whether it was a quiet snapping of the fingers, or a flick of the fingers by the woman (nameless) by well read by the Brahman. It saved them both from trouble. This tells me that even the smallest, slightest messages have to be dicephered correctly. The Brahman had to look out for the sign which he could easily have missed in the blink of an eye. Even the smallest signs can carry heavy weight of message and importance.
  2. The sick parasite network have put up one of their favourite shabads to misquote. This is one of the 25 shabads that missionaries are taught in their college before they buy the appellation of "Bhai" or they have the option to learn some more shabads and become a "Professor." The reason why this shabad was one of those chosen for their 25 shabad syllabus is because of the connection with reincarnation. The missionaries believe that there is no such thing as reincarnation and that humans only have one life. That is why this shabad is one of the main ones they concentrate on. Their focus is to determine that the thoughts of Bhagat Tirlochan are not on birth , reincarnation and life but to say that Bhagat Tirlochan was talking about something which they fail to say. This article is written by some "doctor" called karminder, who is a big favourite of that rat aman on sick parasite network. I have highlighted this "doctors" words in green and my own opinions in black. As you will see from the the thoughts of this doctor, he is looking to disprove the shabad itself rather than give an explanation of what it means. From sick parasite network: The complete Shabd is as follows: ਗੂਜਰੀ ॥ Goojaree: ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਲਛਮੀ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥ At the very last moment, one who thinks of wealth, and dies in such thoughts, ਜੋ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਮਰਨ ਵੇਲੇ ਧਨ-ਪਦਾਰਥ ਚੇਤੇ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਇਸੇ ਸੋਚ ਵਿਚ ਹੀ ਮਰ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਸਰਪ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੧॥ shall be reincarnated over and over again, in the form of serpents. ||1|| ਉਹ ਮੁੜ ਮੁੜ ਸੱਪ ਦੀ ਜੂਨੇ ਪੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ ।੧। ਅਰੀ ਬਾਈ ਗੋਬਿਦ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਤਿ ਬੀਸਰੈ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ O sister, do not forget the Name of the Lord of the Universe. ||Pause|| ਹੇ ਭੈਣ! (ਮੇਰੇ ਲਈ ਅਰਦਾਸ ਕਰ) ਮੈਨੂੰ ਕਦੇ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਮ ਨਾਹ ਭੁੱਲੇ (ਤਾਂ ਜੁ ਅੰਤ ਵੇਲੇ ਭੀ ਉਹ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਹੀ ਚੇਤੇ ਆਵੇ) ।ਰਹਾਉ। ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥ At the very last moment, he who thinks of women, and dies in such thoughts, ਜੋ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਮਰਨ ਸਮੇਂ (ਆਪਣੀ) ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਨੂੰ ਹੀ ਯਾਦ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਇਸੇ ਯਾਦ ਵਿਚ ਪ੍ਰਾਣ ਤਿਆਗ ਦੇਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਬੇਸਵਾ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੨॥ shall be reincarnated over and over again as a prostitute. ||2|| ਉਹ ਮੁੜ ਮੁੜ ਵੇਸਵਾ ਦਾ ਜਨਮ ਲੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ ।੨। ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਲੜਿਕੇ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥ At the very last moment, one who thinks of his children, and dies in such thoughts, ਜੋ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਅੰਤ ਵੇਲੇ (ਆਪਣੇ) ਪੱੁਤ੍ਰਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਹੀ ਯਾਦ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਪੁੱਤ੍ਰਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਯਾਦ ਕਰਦਾ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੀ ਮਰ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਸੂਕਰ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੩॥ shall be reincarnated over and over again as a pig. ||3|| ਉਹ ਸੂਰ ਦੀ ਜੂਨੇ ਮੁੜ ਮੁੜ ਜੰਮਦਾ ਹੈ ।੩। ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਮੰਦਰ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥ At the very last moment, one who thinks of mansions, and dies in such thoughts, ਜੋ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਅਖ਼ੀਰ ਵੇਲੇ (ਆਪਣੇ) ਘਰ ਮਹਲ-ਮਾੜੀਆਂ ਦੇ ਹਾਹੁਕੇ ਲੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਇਹਨਾਂ ਹਾਹੁਕਿਆਂ ਵਿਚ ਸਰੀਰ ਛੱਡ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੪॥ shall be reincarnated over and over again as a goblin. ||4|| ਉਹ ਮੁੜ ਮੁੜ ਪੇ੍ਰਤ ਬਣਦਾ ਹੈ ।੪। ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਨਾਰਾਇਣੁ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥ At the very last moment, one who thinks of the Lord, and dies in such thoughts, ਤ੍ਰਿਲੋਚਨ ਆਖਦਾ ਹੈ—ਜੋ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਅੰਤ ਸਮੇਂ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨੂੰ ਯਾਦ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਇਸ ਯਾਦ ਵਿਚ ਟਿਕਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੀ ਚੋਲਾ ਤਿਆਗਦਾ ਹੈ ਬਦਤਿ ਤਿਲੋਚਨੁ ਤੇ ਨਰ ਮੁਕਤਾ ਪੀਤੰਬਰੁ ਵਾ ਕੇ ਰਿਦੈ ਬਸੈ ॥੫॥੨॥ says Trilochan, that man shall be liberated; the Lord shall abide in his heart. ||5||2|| ਉਹ ਮਨੁੱਖ (ਧਨ, ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ, ਪੁੱਤਰ ਤੇ ਘਰ ਆਦਿਕ ਦੇ ਮੋਹ ਤੋਂ) ਆਜ਼ਾਦ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਉਸ ਦੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਵਿਚ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਆਪ ਆ ਵੱਸਦਾ ਹੈ ।੫।੨। The question that needs to be examined pertains to whether this a correct translation of the verses that are composed by Bhagat Tirlocan ji and contained in the SGGS on page 526. Or are the verses wrongly translated because they are interpreted based on concepts and ideas that are contained in Vedic scriptures – in particular the Upanishads and the Garrur puran (one of the 18 purans) that focuses on the issue of what happens after life: Look at the use of the words" interpreted based on concepts and ideas that are contained in Vedic scriptures" . Immediately the reader is lead to beleive that it was some people who interpreted this from an Hindu angle. But all those who had translated this were Sikhs, inc the well cited translation of Sahib Singh. But to get anyone doubting anything in gurbani, throw up the bogey of "hindu/brahman/vedas" etc. To answer that question, it is perhaps worth looking first at some of the PROBLEMS that arise out of such a translation that is based on external and non- Gurbani sources such as the Garrur puran and other Vedic texts. A DEFECTIVE TRANSLATION – PROBLEM NUMBER ONE Let us first look at the translation of Verse Two as provided. ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥ ਬੇਸਵਾ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥ ੨ ॥ Aant Kaal Jo Esteri Simrey Aisee Chinta Meh Jey Mrey. Besva Joan Val Val Autrey. Translation: At the very last moment, he who thinks of women, and dies in such thoughts, shall be reincarnated over and over again as a prostitute. || 2 || SANT SINGH KHALSA The first problem that comes to mind is that a PROSTITUTE is not a Joon; not a life form. Going by the notion of reincarnation as contained in the Vedic texts, one could be reincarnated as an animal, insect, bird; as a mammal, reptile or amphibian because these are life forms. But one CANNOT be reincarnated as a prostitute. And certainly NOT again and again. A PROSTITTUTE is simply NOT a life form. One is not BORN a prostitute. One BECOMES a prostitute – while living in the life form of A HUMAN BEING. One becomes a prostitute by choosing to adopt certain actions and behaviors. It is clear therefore that to say that the verse ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥ ਬੇਸਵਾ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥ ੨ ॥ Aant Kaal Jo Esteri Simrey Aisee Chinta Meh Jey Mrey. Besva Joan Val Val Autrey translates as above makes no sense BECAUSE A PROSTITUTE IS NOT A JOON. So that’s problem number one. The meaning of JOON does NOT fit verse two. A PROSTITUTE IS NOT A JOON. The logical conclusion therefore is that the translation is wrong. karminders thinking here is that a joon can only mean body. Joon does not mean only body. it means "incarnation". It means a person received another life. Gurbani time and time again mention "jon" which is rebirth. Coming onto the point about a prostitute being a life-choice, karminder most likely doesn't know of the tradition in India, of prostitutes raising their daughters to be prostitutes as a long-standing tradition. Yes, that is correct, there were tribes (and still are) certain tribes who practise this tradition of raising their daughters to be prostitutes. "Devdasi" is a name that springs immediately to mind. These young girls are NOT given a life-choice of whether they want to do it or not. Just as slaves were NOT givena chnace to become slaves. They were made into slaves, and their children were born and died as slaves. The idea that these people made a life choice by choosing to adopt certain actions and behaviours to become slaves is ludicrous. The logical conclusion therefore is that a lifetime of being a prostitute is in itself a joon. A DEFECTIVE TRANSLATION – PROBLEM NUMBER TWO If indeed the translation is “At the very last moment, he who thinks of women, and dies in such thoughts, shall be reincarnated over and over again as a prostitute. || 2 ||” then one has to accept that Bhagat Tarlochan is gender biased – at least in this particular verse. The translation ‘he who thinks of women’ only applies only to males. What would a “woman who thinks of a man at the very last moment” be “reincarnated over and over again” as? Or are we to accept that the verse only applies to one half of the human race. The other half – in the form of women – stands exempted from the foretelling prophecies of the verse? Or worse, that women stand outside the sphere of spirituality altogether? Or worst, that Sikh spirituality is irrelevant to them; that they can think of men on their death bed and it would make no difference? The "istri" here isn't some random women, but a wife. So does that mean that this verse only applies to one-half of the human race? Is this verse gender biased? Is it the only verse as such in SGGS? What about this line which says " ਕੁਬੁਧਿ ਡੂਮਣੀ ਕੁਦਇਆ ਕਸਾਇਣਿ ਪਰ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਘਟ ਚੂਹੜੀ ਮੁਠੀ ਕ੍ਰੋਧਿ ਚੰਡਾਲਿ ॥ False-mindedness is the drummer-woman; cruelty is the butcheress; slander of others in one's heart is the cleaning-woman, and deceitful anger is the outcast-woman." Notice how everyone is a woman? Does that mean that only women are bad? Are 50% of the human race bad according to gurbani? or " ਗਊ ਭੈਸ ਮਗਉ ਲਾਵੇਰੀ ॥ A milk cow, and a water buffalo, I beg of You, ਹੇ ਗੋਪਾਲ! ਮੈਂ ਗਾਂ ਮਹਿੰ ਲਵੇਰੀ (ਭੀ) ਮੰਗਦਾ ਹਾਂ, ਇਕ ਤਾਜਨਿ ਤੁਰੀ ਚੰਗੇਰੀ ॥ and a fine Turkestani horse. ਤੇ ਇਕ ਚੰਗੀ ਅਰਬੀ ਘੋੜੀ ਭੀ ਚਾਹੀਦੀ ਹੈ ਘਰ ਕੀ ਗੀਹਨਿ ਚੰਗੀ ॥ A good wife to care for my home ਘਰ ਦੀ ਚੰਗੀ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਭੀ ਲੈਂਦਾ ਹਾਂ ।੨।੧। ਜਨੁ ਧੰਨਾ ਲੇਵੈ ਮੰਗੀ ॥੨॥੪॥ - Your humble servant Dhanna begs for these things, Lord. ||2||4|| ਮੈਂ ਤੇਰਾ ਦਾਸ ਧੰਨਾ ਤੈਥੋਂ ਮੰਗ" So when a women sings this shabad is she asking Waheguru to give her a good wife ? The line of this shabad is to say that one the point of death a person's thought should not move towards their wife/family. This theme is mentioned in Gurbani many times. What would we make then of the Gurbani verse on page 747 which makes clear that the messages of Gurbani are common for the entirety of mankind? ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਸੂਦ ਵੈਸ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਚਹੁ ਵਰਨਾ ਕਉ ਸਾਝਾ ॥ Khatree Brahmin Sood Vais Updes Chau Varna Ko Sanjha. The messages ਉਪਦੇਸੁ Updes is one, common and the same ਸਾਝਾ Sanjha for the entirety of mankind; EVEN IF it stands divided ਚਹੁ ਵਰਨਾ Chou Varna as four castes ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਸੂਦ ਵੈਸ Khatree Brahmin Sood Vai. Surely the one half of human race that is female is part of the entirety of mankind – whether divided into four castes by the pre-1469 religions – or united as equal by the spirituality of Guru Nanak and Sikhi. For Guru Nanak to have personally selected this (and other) Shabds of Bhagat Tarlochan, for Guru Arjun to have included it in the Pothi Sahib; and for Guru Gobind Singh to have endorsed it as Gurbani and part of our Guru – the SGGS – surely Bhagat Tarlochan and his compositions must meet the benchmark of the “unified nature” of mankind as the basic principle of Gurmat. In other words, the very fact that the Shabd under discussion is included in the SGGS is clear and unequivocal evidence that Bhagat Tarlochan is a non-subscriber to the divisive principles – caste, gender and any other – of the pre-1469 religions. Yet the translation of the verse as provided seems to portray Bhagat Tarlochan as exactly the reverse. The WHOLE world does not fall in these 4 varnas. Only those people who lived in that land were part of this structure. So does that mean that Gurbani is only for these 4 varans? What about the Khalsa which claims to above these structures? According to karminders idea Gurbani wouldn'e even be for the Khalsa. What karminderhas tried to do is twist gurbani around to say these four varans are only of importance, whereas Guru Sahib said that the message is the same no matter which of these four varans you belong to. A defective opinion offered by karminder. A DEFECTIVE TRANSLATION – PROBLEM NUMBER THREE An examination of the translation of Verse four brings forth problem number three. ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਮੰਦਰ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥ ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥ ੪ ॥ Aant Kaal Jo Mandir Simrey Aisee Chinta Meh Jey Mrey. Preyt Joan Val Val Autrey. The translation that is given is: At the very last moments of life, one who thinks of mansions, and dies in such thoughts, shall be reincarnated over and over again as a goblin. || 4 || SANT SINGH KHALSA The question that needs to be examined pertains to the existence of a goblin. A goblin obviously does not exist in the physical sense. It certainly does not exist as a life form. The usage of the word “form” in the phrase “life form” means it must have a form. How could one be reincarnated as a goblin if it did not exist? So we have two joons or two life forms that are problematic. A prostitute is NOT a Joon and the Goblin does NOT exist physically. A pret is not a goblin. A goblin is something That if it exists is something visible to the eye, whereas a "pret" is a ghost, with a body that is not visible to the eye. You can see the shallowness of karminders thoughts on his views of goblins. The meaning of this line is that a person should not be attached to his home/property that it is in his final moments of life. The line is to do with moh rather than being anything else. karminders defective translation problem number three is corrected. A DEFECTIVE TRANSLATION – PROBLEM NUMBER FOUR An examination of the translation of verse FIVE brings forth problem number three: ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਨਾਰਾਇਣੁ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥ ਬਦਤਿ ਤਿਲੋਚਨੁ ਤੇ ਨਰ ਮੁਕਤਾ ਪੀਤੰਬਰੁ ਵਾ ਕੇ ਰਿਦੈ ਬਸੈ ॥ ੫ ॥ ੨ ॥ Aant Kaal Narayan Simrey Aisee Chinta Meh Jey Mrey. Badt Tilochan Tay Nur Mukta Pitambar Va Kay Ridey Bsey. The translation as provided is: At the very last moment, one who thinks of the Lord, and dies in such thoughts, says Trilochan, that man shall be liberated; the Lord shall abide in his heart. || 5 || 2 || SANT SINGH KHALSA If indeed this translation is true; then the way to “liberation” for anyone who desires liberation is truly very simple. Going by the logic of the translation, one could spend one’s entire lifetime doing all the WRONG things one desires. Going by the rationality of the translation, we could spend our entire life time indulging in sinful activities, negative thoughts, hurtful activities; and devote our life towards activities pertaining to thievery, lies and deceit. We could dedicate our whole life living a lie and indulging in vices. But if AT THE TIME OF DEATH, DURING THE LAST MOMENTS OF DEATH, we could think of the Lord – or say His name, and die in such thoughts – and we will be liberated. Now that would be as wonderful as it is easy. One minute of death bed thinking of God would get us liberated, and into heaven. Just like that. There would indeed be NO need for spirituality. No need to spend a lifetime of learning of doing good. No need to contribute to humanity and make our world a better place than the one we were born into. No need for reading Gurbani etc. No need to know and understand 1429 pages of SGGS. The only thing that would matter would be the FINAL FEW moments of life – ten or twenty seconds before we die – all we will need to do is to think of the Lord during this time and we will be liberated. It hardly needs to be said that such a notion is most ridiculous. It is ludicrous, if not absurd by the most rudimentary percepts of just about any spirituality. Surely Guru Nanak and the succeeding Gurus didn’t spend 240 years traveling far and wide and writing 1429 pages of Gurbani to tell us such an absurd thing. It is obvious therefore that the translation of the verses as provided above are deeply faulty. Only a person who knows the final moments can explain this, but they are not of this life anymore so it would be kind of hard for them to explain wouldn't it? But I would say that when a person is close to death, then only the very strong-willed may keep them selves under some kind of mental composure to think of the supreme being. I think most would be crying for help. With only a fraction of deaths being known about, some could turn their final thoughts to the Supreme being. But with so many deaths being instantaneous how could anyone think of God before its too late and they are dead. In this line the question that needs asking is why "ਚਿੰਤਾ " is in there? Chinta is a negative aspect of the word "think". It means to fret, or to be anxious about something. To worry. Then at the end of this sentence Bhagat Tirlochan writes, "Narayan will reside in his heart." What heart? The person will be dead and cremated very soon after. The line "ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਨਾਰਾਇਣੁ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥ ਬਦਤਿ ਤਿਲੋਚਨੁ ਤੇ ਨਰ ਮੁਕਤਾ ਪੀਤੰਬਰੁ ਵਾ ਕੇ ਰਿਦੈ ਬਸੈ ॥ ੫ ॥ ੨ ॥" To me, this means "at the end of that time, should that person who has remembered Narayan (not just at the point of death but throughout their life) have any worries, Tarlochan knows that person to be mukt and Peetambar to be residing in his heart. The word "ਬਦਤਿ " can mean "knows." So to end this Bhagat Tirlochan is telling himself that the simran of Narayan is necessary and that he should not abandon it or be careless in it. ANother defective translation of karminders corrected. A DEFECTIVE TRANSLATION – PROBLEM NUMBER FIVE The fifth problem pertains to the nature of death as we understand it. A great many people die of strokes, heart attacks, in accidents, of gunshot wounds, of lightning strikes, falls, overdoses, in car mishaps, airplane crashes etc. The list is long. A great many people go into comas for hours, days, weeks or even months before they die. Many millions die in their sleep. In short a great number of people die SUDDEN deaths. For the very large majority of people therefore, death is always sudden. It is always UNEXPECTED. Death is WITHOUT NOTICE for a vast majority of human beings. Death is without WARNING. And if this is the case, then its logical to accept that a very LARGE majority of people – close to 99 percent of humans have NO opportunity to even formulate their thoughts during their final moments of life just before death. How does one even know when the last moments of life are when no one actually knows when death is coming.? So how is the so called reincarnation formula going to be decided for these 99% of people who met sudden deaths? Going by such logic, sudden deaths have NO ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਸਿਮਰੈ Ant Kaal Simrey. At the very least sudden deaths have NO ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ Antt Kaal moments that one could be AWARE OF in the first place. In other words, how is anyone to know when one’s ANT KAAL is, when NO ONE EVER knows the moment of death. One would have to know that I am dying at 7.15 am. Then at 7.14 am I start to think of the Lord. And then at 7.15 am that would be my final thought, my last thought, my dying thought. Then, and only then, according to the translation above, would I qualify for liberation. As defeatist as it may sound, it must be said that the only people who probably know they are going to die at 7:15 am are those who have made arrangements for suicide. Even then there would be no guarantee that death would indeed occur at 7: 15 am. What this means that IF WE accept the translation of the verses as above, then this final verse only apples to a miniscule number of the people who through some miraculous powers unknown to mankind, KNOW when they are going to die, and know when their ANT KAAL is, who then make a CHOICE of WHAT to think of (woman, wealth, children, mansions, and God). The point of the shabad is that when someone is on the verge of dying, they should still their mind and think of the next phase of their journey. Most people will wake up that day not expecting to die, and of most it is sudden. For those there is no time to contemplate on anything. So although what karminder says here is true it has no bearing on those who die instant sudden deaths. The shabad is really there to understand whilst you are alive. A DEFECTIVE TRANSLATION – PROBLEM NUMBER SIX. The sixth problem with the translations as provided pertains to the 8.4 million life forms that form the basis of the Vedic theory concerning reincarnation. Sans the Rahao Verse, this shabd has five verses. Four are about reincarnations in various forms. The first talks about reincarnating as a serpent, the second as a prostitute, the third as a pig and the fourth as a goblin. These are four life forms – according to the translation. But since we have determined that prostitute and goblin are NOT life forms; we are left with two: the serpent and the pig. The question that needs examining is this: are these two the ONLY life forms that human beings reincarnate into? What final thoughts at one’s death bed are required for reincarnating into the remaining 8.4 million life forms? Why are two life forms – serpent and pig – being singled out by Bhagat Tarlochan ji in this Shabd? "ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਭ੍ਰਮਤਿਆ ਦੁਲਭ ਜਨਮੁ ਪਾਇਓਇ ॥ Through 8.4 million incarnations you have wandered, to obtain this rare and precious human life. (ਹੇ ਭਾਈ !) ਚੌਰਾਸੀ ਲੱਖ ਜੂਨਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਭੌਂ ਭੌਂ ਕੇ ਤੂੰ ਹੁਣ ਇਹ ਮਨੁੱਖਾ ਜਨਮ ਬੜੀ ਮੁਸ਼ਕਿਲ ਨਾਲ ਲੱਭਾ ਹੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ਤੂੰ ਸੋ ਦਿਨੁ ਨੇੜਾ ਆਇਓਇ ॥੪॥੨੨॥੯੨॥ O Nanak, remember the Naam, the Name of the Lord; the day of departure is drawing near! ||4||22||92|| ਹੇ ਨਾਨਕ ! (ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ) ਨਾਮ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਵਿਚ ਵਸਾ, ਉਹ ਦਿਨ ਨੇੜੇ ਆ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ (ਜਦੋਂ ਇਥੋਂ ਕੂਚ ਕਰਨਾ ਹੈ) ।੪।੨੨।੯੨।" This shabad amongst numerous others prove that 8.4 million life forms is not only a vedic theory. This churasi lakh comes up so many times in gurbani. If the Guru's were not beleivers of this theory they would have written it just as explicitly as they have concerning 8.4 million. We shold ask "why pig/serpent"? Karminder asks this as well, but he doesnt provide an answer. The answer is that these forms amongst the others mentioned are all low forms of life. Neech joon. Just as in humans there are those privileged and those not.Just as in the world today we have certain notions about certain animals. People keep dogs as pets yet beat them and are cruel to them. People kill snakes and hate them. The use of these animals here isn't to say that this is your future life, but to say that these forms are low and suffer in the world, and they are not good forms to be born into. A DEFECTIVE TRANSLATION – PROBLEM NUMBER SEVEN. The seventh problem with the translation above has got to do with its prophetic nature. If indeed the translation is correct that a person who thinks of woman at the time of death will be reincarnated as a prostitute in his or her next life – then this amounts to a prophecy. Serious students of Gurbani know that the SGGS does not indulge in prophecies. Certainly not in matters concerning what would happen to us after death. Gurmat accepts the task of birth and death are the responsibility of our Creator alone. This is what Guru Nanak has to say about what happens to life after death. This is on page 648. ਮ: ੧ ॥ ਇਕ ਦਝਹਿ ਇਕ ਦਬੀਅਹਿ ਇਕਨਾ ਕੁਤੇ ਖਾਹਿ ॥ ਇਕਿ ਪਾਣੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਉਸਟੀਅਹਿ ਇਕਿ ਭੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਹਸਣਿ ਪਾਹਿ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਏਵ ਨ ਜਾਪਈ ਕਿਥੈ ਜਾਇ ਸਮਾਹਿ ॥ ੨ ॥ M: 1. Ek Dajhey Ek Dubbeah Ekna Kutey Khahey. Ek Panni Vich Usatteah Ek Bhi Fir Hasann Pahe. Nanak Eyv Na Japyee Kithey Jaye Smahe. Meaning: Some burn their dead, some bury, some allow animals to consume them. Some are discarded in water, some in wells. Nanak, no one knows where they go and reside. How could it be that we have Guru Nanak ji saying on Page 648 that no one knows where the dead go and reside, but we have Tirlochan saying on page 526 that he can predict (according to the translation above) where dead will go and under what conditions, as decided by what their dying thoughts are? Another defective reason of claiming there is no prophesy in SGGS: ਆਵਨਿ ਅਠਤਰੈ ਜਾਨਿ ਸਤਾਨਵੈ ਹੋਰੁ ਭੀ ਉਠਸੀ ਮਰਦ ਕਾ ਚੇਲਾ ॥ Coming in seventy-eight (1521 A.D.), they will depart in ninety-seven (1540 A.D.), and then another disciple of man will rise up. (ਪਰ ਹੇ ਭਾਈ ਲਾਲੋ! ਜਦ ਤਕ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਮੋਹ ਵਿਚ ਪਰਵਿਰਤ ਹਨ, ਅਜੇਹੇ ਘੱਲੂ-ਘਾਰੇ ਵਾਪਰਦੇ ਹੀ ਰਹਿਣੇ ਹਨ, ਮੁਗ਼ਲ ਅੱਜ) ਸੰਮਤ ਅਠੱਤਰ ਵਿਚ ਆਏ ਹਨ, ਇਹ ਸੰਮਤ ਸਤਾਨਵੇ ਵਿਚ ਚਲੇ ਜਾਣਗੇ, ਕੋਈ ਹੋਰ ਸੂਰਮਾ ਭੀ ਉੱਠ ਖੜਾ ਹੋਵੇਗਾ । ਸਚ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਆਖੈ ਸਚੁ ਸੁਣਾਇਸੀ ਸਚ ਕੀ ਬੇਲਾ ॥੨॥੩॥੫॥ Nanak speaks the Word of Truth; he proclaims the Truth at this, the right time. ||2||3||5|| (ਜੀਵ ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਰੰਗ ਵਿਚ ਮਸਤ ਹੋ ਕੇ ਉਮਰ ਅਜਾਈਂ ਗਵਾ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ) ਨਾਨਕ ਤਾਂ (ਇਸ ਵੇਲੇ ਭੀ) ਸਦਾ ਕਾਇਮ ਰਹਿਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੀ ਸਿਫ਼ਤਿ-ਸਾਲਾਹ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ, (ਸਾਰੀ ਉਮਰ ਹੀ) ਇਹ ਸਿਫ਼ਤਿ-ਸਾਲਾਹ ਕਰਦਾ ਰਹੇਗਾ, ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਇਹ ਮਨੁੱਖਾ ਜਨਮ ਦਾ ਸਮਾ ਸਿਫ਼ਤਿ-ਸਾਲਾਹ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਹੀ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਹੈ ।੨।੩।੫।" it's clear there is. As for prophesy in terms of the future when someone has died : "ਲਖ ਸੀਗਾਰ ਬਣਾਇਆ ਕਾਰਜਿ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੇਤੁ ॥ She may wear thousands of ornaments, but they are of no use at all. ਉਹ ਭਾਵੇਂ ਲੱਖਾਂ ਹਾਰ ਸ਼ਿੰਗਾਰ ਕਰੇ, (ਉਸ ਦੇ) ਕਿਸੇ ਕੰਮ ਨਹੀਂ ਆਉਂਦੇ । ਜਿਤੁ ਦਿਨਿ ਦੇਹ ਬਿਨਸਸੀ ਤਿਤੁ ਵੇਲੈ ਕਹਸਨਿ ਪ੍ਰੇਤੁ ॥ On that day when the body perishes-at that time, she becomes a ghost. ਜਿਸ ਦਿਨ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਦਾ ਸਰੀਰ ਨਾਸ ਹੋਵੇਗਾ (ਜਦੋਂ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਮਰ ਜਾਇਗਾ) ਉਸ ਵੇਲੇ (ਸਾਰੇ ਸਾਕ-ਅੰਗ) ਆਖਣਗੇ ਕਿ ਇਹ ਹੁਣ ਗੁਜ਼ਰ ਗਿਆ ਹੈ । (ਲੋਥ ਅਪਵਿਤ੍ਰ ਪਈ ਹੈ, ਇਸ ਨੂੰ ਛੇਤੀ ਬਾਹਰ ਲੈ ਚੱਲੋ)" How could Guru Ajran Dev ji prophesise this? Conclusion: As this is a shabad which emphasises the existence of reincarnation it is one of those 25 taken by the missionaries and distorted. The essence of this shabad is not to dwell on the future life forms but to avoid them. Bhagat Ji in all the life forms has used MOH and the results of it by listing low status reincarnations. The list of low status reincarnations is as endless as nature. Bhagat Ji if he wanted to, could have used insects, maggots, ants, anything! The key is not to get stuck on what Bhagat Ji has listed. From the way karminder (and the rest of them) distort this shabad it is clear that they have no sense of mysticism. Everything to these missionaries is black and white. Even dhadriwala is quoting this shabad recently and distorting it in the same way. These people are so troubled with hindu phobia. The rats at spn are blind. They just follow everything karminder says without analysing it. esp his favourite pet rat aman.
  3. Chritar 94: Tale of Din Diaal ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥ Dohira ਚਾਂਦਨ ਹੂੰ ਕੇ ਦੇਸ ਮੈ ਪ੍ਰਗਟ ਚਾਂਦ ਪੁਰ ਗਾਉ ॥ In the country of Chandan, there was a town called Chandanpur. ਬਿਪ੍ਰ ਏਕ ਤਿਹ ਠਾਂ ਰਹੈ ਦੀਨ ਦਯਾਲ ਤਿਹ ਨਾਉ ॥੧॥ There used to live a Brahmin priest, whose name was Din Diaal.(1) ਚੌਪਈ ॥ Chaupaee ਦਿਸਨ ਦਿਸਨ ਕੀ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਆਵਹਿ ॥ ਆਇ ਬਿਪ੍ਰ ਕੋ ਸੀਸ ਝੁਕਾਵਹਿ ॥ The woman from various countries came there and paid their obeisance to the Brahmin. ਸੁਭ ਬਾਨੀ ਮਿਲਿ ਯਹੈ ਉਚਾਰੈ ॥ ਰਤਿ ਪਤਿ ਕੀ ਅਨੁਹਾਰਿ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥੨॥ All of them used to recite celestial hymns as he seemed to them as the epitome of Cupid.(2) ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥ Dohira ਏਕ ਨਾਰਿ ਤਿਹ ਠਾਂ ਹੁਤੀ ਰਤਿ ਸਮ ਰੂਪ ਅਪਾਰ ॥ There used to live a woman who was embodiment of the Cupid’s consort. ਸੋ ਯਾ ਪੈ ਅਟਕਤ ਭਈ ਰਤਿ ਪਤਿ ਤਾਹਿ ਬਿਚਾਰ ॥੩॥ Considering him to be the Cupid, she wrapped herself around him.(3) ਚੌਪਈ ॥ Chaupaee ਕਬਹੂੰ ਤ੍ਰਿਯ ਤਾ ਕੇ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਆਵੈ ॥ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਤਿਹ ਘਰ ਬੋਲਿ ਪਠਾਵੈ ॥ Now the woman started either to come to him or call him over. ਏਕ ਦਿਵਸ ਦਿਨ ਕੌ ਵਹੁ ਆਯੋ ॥ ਤਬ ਅਬਲਾ ਇਹ ਚਰਿਤ ਦਿਖਾਯੋ ॥੪॥ Once, during the day he came and the woman displayed this trick.(4) ਸਵੈਯਾ ॥ Savaiyya ਬੈਠੀ ਹੁਤੀ ਸਖੀ ਮਧਿ ਅਲੀਨ ਮੌ ਦੀਨ ਦਯਾਲ ਸੌ ਨੇਹੁ ਨਵੀਨੋ ॥ She was sitting with her friends and saying that she loved Din Diaal. ਬੈਨਨਿ ਚਿੰਤ ਕਰੈ ਚਿਤ ਮੈ ਇਤ ਨੈਨਨਿ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮ ਕੋ ਮਨੁ ਲੀਨੋ ॥ Although she was conversing sitting there, her mind was at the thought of her paramour. ਨੈਨ ਕੀ ਕਾਲ ਕੋ ਬੀਚਲ ਦੇਖਿ ਸੁ ਸੁੰਦਰਿ ਘਾਤ ਚਿਤੈਬੇ ਕੋ ਕੀਨੋ ॥ With askance looks she pointed her beautiful (friends) at him, ਹੀ ਲਖਿ ਪਾਇ ਜੰਭਾਇ ਲਈ ਚੁਟਕੀ ਚਟਕਾਇ ਬਿਦਾ ਕਰਿ ਦੀਨੋ ॥੫॥ She yawned and with the snap ofthe fingers pointed him to go.(5)(1) ਇਤਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਪਖ੍ਯਾਨੇ ਤ੍ਰਿਯਾ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰੇ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੀ ਭੂਪ ਸੰਬਾਦੇ ਚੌਰਾਨਵੋ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਸਮਾਪਤਮ ਸਤੁ ਸੁਭਮ ਸਤੁ ॥੯੪॥੧੬੭੬॥ਅਫਜੂੰ॥ Ninety-four Parable of Auspicious Chritars Conversation of the Raja and the Minister, Completed with Benediction. (94)(1676)
  4. A comedy of errors. From this it is apparent that speech is important, but also the timing and situation is critical as well. A singular sentence which is of no consequence brought pain and misery in others. That same sentence which may be so fitting in one conversation may bring ruin in another. The charitar I feel is telling us to be take stock of the person/s, environment etc that we are in, to engage our intellect before we open our mouth. In the end of the charitar, things all worked out well for the julaha, but I think this was just a good way to end the charitar whilst still keeping the main emphasis of the story. This is one thing that I have been keeping in my mind over recent time, whenever I'm in a gathering - to think twice about what I'm about to say, and whether there is any merit in saying it. Sometime before I was in the habit of blurting things out.
  5. Chritar 93: Tale of A Weaver ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥ Dohira ਚਲਿਯੋ ਜੁਲਾਹੋ ਸਾਹੁਰੇ ਉਡਿ ਜਾ ਕਹਤਾ ਜਾਇ ॥ A weaver was walking to his in-laws and kept on shoUting, ‘flyaway’ ਬਧਿਕਨ ਕੁਸਗੁਨ ਜਾਨਿ ਕੈ ਮਾਰਿਯੋ ਤਾਹਿ ਬਨਾਇ ॥੧॥ A hunter considering this to be a bad omen beat him up.(1) ਬਧਿਕ ਬਾਚ ॥ Badhik Talk ਉਡਿ ਉਡਿ ਆਵਹੁ ਫਾਸਿਯਹੁ ਸੌ ਕਹਤਾ ਮਗੁ ਜਾਇ ॥ (The hunter told him) ‘You must say come flying and get entrapped. ਜੋ ਐਸੋ ਬਚ ਪੁਨਿ ਕਹਿਯੋ ਹਨਿਹੈ ਤੋਹਿ ਰਿਸਾਇ ॥੨॥ ‘If you shout other way, I will get furious and kill you’.(2) ਚੌਪਈ ॥ Chaupaee ਫਸਿ ਫਸਿ ਜਾਵਹੁ ਉਡਿ ਉਡਿ ਆਇ ॥ ਐਸੇ ਕਹਤ ਜੁਲਾਹੋ ਜਾਇ ॥ Then he started his journey saying, ‘Come flying and get entrapped.’ ਚੋਰਨ ਕੁਸਗੁਨ ਚਿਤ ਬਿਚਾਰਿਯੋ ॥ ਦੋ ਸੈ ਜੁਤੀ ਸੌ ਤਿਹ ਮਾਰਿਯੋ ॥੩॥ This was heard by the thieves and they hit him with shoes two hundred times.(3 ) ਚੋਰਨ ਬਾਚ ॥ Thieve’s Instruction ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥ Dohira ਲੈ ਆਵਹੁ ਧਰਿ ਜਾਇਯਹੁ ਯੌ ਕਹਿ ਕਰੌ ਪਯਾਨ ॥ ‘Say, “Bring in here, leave and go away.” ਜੋ ਉਹਿ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਬਖਾਨਿਹੋ ਹਨਿਹੈ ਤੁਹਿ ਤਨ ਬਾਨ ॥੪॥ “If you speak otherwise, we will kill you.”(4) ਜਬ ਚੋਰਨ ਐਸੇ ਕਹਿਯੋ ਤਬ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਡਰ ਪਾਇ ॥ When afraid of thieves he walked asserting, ਲੈ ਆਵਹੁ ਧਰਿ ਜਾਇਯਹੁ ਯੌ ਮਗੁ ਕਹਤੌ ਜਾਇ ॥੫॥ ‘Bring it here, leave it and go away.’(5) ਚਾਰ ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹ ਕੇ ਇਕ ਨੈ ਤਜਾ ਪਰਾਨ ॥ A Raja had four sons. One had just breathed his last, ਦਾਬਨ ਤਾ ਕੌ ਲੈ ਚਲੇ ਅਧਿਕ ਸੋਕ ਮਨ ਮਾਨਿ ॥੬॥ And they were taking him for burial.(6) ਚੌਪਈ ॥ Chaupaee ਤਬ ਲੌ ਕਹਤ ਜੁਲਾਹੋ ਐਯਹੁ ॥ ਲੈ ਲੈ ਆਵਹੁ ਧਰ ਧਰ ਜੈਯਹੁ ॥ They met the weaver who was saying, ‘Bring in and put it there.’ ਸੈਨਾ ਕੇ ਸ੍ਰਵਨਨ ਯਹ ਪਰੀ ॥ ਪੰਦ੍ਰਹ ਸੈ ਪਨਹੀ ਤਹ ਝਰੀ ॥੭॥ When the Raja’s soldiers heard this, they gave him beating of fifteen hundred shoes,(7) ਤਿਨ ਸੋ ਕਹਿਯੋ ਕਹੋ ਸੁ ਉਚਾਰੋ ॥ ਕਹਿਯੋ ਬੁਰਾ ਭਯੋ ਕਹਤ ਪਧਾਰੋ ॥ They instructed him to repeat, ‘What a bad thing has happened.’ ਭੇਦ ਅਭੇਦ ਕੀ ਬਾਤ ਨ ਜਾਨੀ ॥ ਜੋ ਤਿਨ ਕਹਿਯੋ ਵਹੈ ਜੜ ਮਾਨੀ ॥੮॥ He (weaver) did not grasp why had they told him to say so.(8) ਏਕ ਰਾਵ ਤਾ ਕੇ ਬਹੁ ਨਾਰੀ ॥ ਪੂਤ ਨ ਹੋਤ ਤਾਹਿ ਦੁਖ ਭਾਰੀ ॥ There was one Raja he had many wives but no son. ਔਰ ਬ੍ਯਾਹਿ ਬ੍ਯਾਕੁਲ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਕੀਨੋ ॥ ਤਾ ਕੇ ਭਵਨ ਪੂਤ ਬਿਧਿ ਦੀਨੋ ॥੯॥ He married another woman and God bestowed him with a son.(9) ਸਭਹਿਨ ਆਨੰਦ ਚਿਤ ਬਢਾਯੋ ॥ ਤਬ ਲੌ ਕਹਤ ਜੁਲਾਹੋ ਆਯੋ ॥ Every body was very happy when the weaver passed by. ਬੁਰਾ ਭਯੋ ਕਹਿ ਊਚ ਪੁਕਾਰਿਯੋ ॥ ਸੁਨ੍ਯੋ ਜਾਹਿ ਪਨਹਿਨ ਤਿਨ ਮਾਰਿਯੋ ॥੧੦॥ ‘What a bad thing has happened’, he said, and he was given beating by the Raja.(10) ਪੁਰ ਜਨ ਬਾਚ ॥ ਭਲਾ ਭਯੋ ਇਹ ਕਹਤ ਪਧਾਰਿਯੋ ॥ ਜਬ ਲੋਗਨ ਜੂਤਿਨ ਸੋ ਮਾਰਿਯੋ ॥ After getting thrashing by every body he was told to say, ‘It is God’s blessing.’ ਜਾਤ ਭਯੋ ਤਿਹ ਠਾਂ ਬਡਭਾਗੀ ॥ ਜਹ ਅਤਿ ਅਗਨਿ ਨਗਰ ਮਹਿ ਲਾਗੀ ॥੧੧॥ Then he reached a village, which was on fire.(11) ਗਿਰਿ ਗਿਰਿ ਪਰੈ ਮਹਲ ਜਹ ਭਾਰੇ ॥ ਛਪਰਨ ਕੇ ਜਹ ਉਡੈ ਅਵਾਰੇ ॥ Huge palaces were even crumbling, and the roofs were flying away. ਭਲਾ ਭਯੋ ਯੌ ਮੂੜ ਪੁਕਾਰਿਯੋ ॥ ਜਾਹਿ ਸੁਨ੍ਯੋ ਤਾਹੀ ਗਹਿ ਮਾਰਿਯੋ ॥੧੨॥ The fool said, “It is God’s blessing”, and when the people heart this they beat him up.(12) ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥ Dohira ਦਸ ਹਜਾਰ ਪਨਹੀਨ ਕੀ ਸਹੀ ਜੁਲਾਹੇ ਮਾਰਿ ॥ After getting the beating of more than ten thousand shoes, ਤਾ ਪਾਛੈ ਪਹੁਚਤ ਭਯੋ ਜਹਾ ਹੁਤੀ ਸਸੁਰਾਰਿ ॥੧੩॥ The weaver reached the house of his in-laws.(13) ਚੌਪਈ ॥ Chaupaee ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਜਨ ਕਹਾ ਖਾਹੁ ਨਹਿ ਖਾਵੈ ॥ ਭੂਖਨ ਮਰਤ ਨ ਲਜਤ ਬਤਾਵੈ ॥ ‘The house people offered him food but he did not eat and went to sleep empty stomach. ਆਧੀ ਰੈਨਿ ਬੀਤ ਜਬ ਗਈ ॥ ਲਾਗਤੁ ਅਧਿਕ ਛੁਧਾ ਤਿਹ ਭਈ ॥੧੪॥ When half the night had passed, the hunger tormented him.(l4) ਲਕਰੀ ਭਏ ਤੇਲ ਘਟ ਫੋਰਿਯੋ ॥ ਪੀਨੋ ਸਕਲ ਨੈਕ ਨਹਿ ਛੋਰਿਯੋ ॥ Bolding a stick he broke the pitcher and drank all the water. ਸੂਰਜ ਚੜਿਯੋ ਉਡਗ ਛਪਿ ਗਏ ॥ ਫਾੱਸਿ ਪਾਨ ਸੋ ਕਊਆ ਲਏ ॥੧੫॥ The Sun rose, the stars went away and he took in his hands the weavers’ wefts.(15) ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥ Dohira ਤਾਨੀ ਬੇਚਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨ ਲੀ ਚਲਿਯੋ ਚਾਕਰੀ ਧਾਇ ॥ Be bartered the wefts, acquired a sword and marched again. ਮਾਰਤ ਮਾਰਗ ਸਿੰਘ ਜਹ ਤਿਹ ਠਾਂ ਪਹੁਚ੍ਯੋ ਜਾਇ ॥੧੬॥ Be reached the place where a lion used to plunder the people and eat them.(16) ਤ੍ਰਸਿਤ ਜੁਲਾਹੋ ਦ੍ਰੁਮ ਚੜ੍ਯੋ ਗਹੈ ਸੈਹਥੀ ਹਾਥ ॥ Being afraid, holding the sword in his hand, he went up the tree. ਤਰੇ ਆਨਿ ਠਾਂਢੋ ਭਯੋ ਸਿੰਘ ਰੋਸ ਕੇ ਸਾਥ ॥੧੭॥ And down there the lion, which was right furious, took his place.(l7) ਚੌਪਈ ॥ Chaupaee ਸਿੰਘਹਿ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਜੁਲਾਹੇ ਪਰੀ ॥ ਬਰਛੀ ਕੰਪਤ ਹਾਥ ਤੇ ਝਰੀ ॥ When the lion looked up at the weaver, he trembled and the sword fell from his hands. ਮੁਖ ਮੈ ਲਗੀ ਪਿਸਟਿ ਤਰ ਨਿਕਸੀ ॥ ਜਨ ਕਰਿ ਕੰਜਕਲੀ ਸੀ ਬਿਗਸੀ ॥੧੮॥ It went right into the mOUth of the lion and came out ofthe stomach.(18) ਜਾਨ੍ਯੋ ਸਾਚੁ ਸਿੰਘ ਮਰਿ ਗਯੋ ॥ ਉਤਰਿਯੋ ਪੂਛਿ ਕਾਨ ਕਟਿ ਲਯੋ ॥ When he observed that the lion was dead, ਜਾਇ ਨ੍ਰਿਪਤਿ ਕੌ ਤਾਹਿ ਦਿਖਾਯੋ ॥ ਅਧਿਕ ਮਹੀਨੋ ਅਪਨ ਕਰਾਯੋ ॥੧੯॥ He came down, cut the ear and the tail and showed to the Raja to claim more wages.(l9) ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥ Dohira ਏਕ ਸਤ੍ਰੁ ਤਾ ਕੋ ਹੁਤੋ ਚੜਿਯੋ ਅਨੀ ਬਨਾਇ ॥ The Raja had an enemy, who had raided him. ਸੈਨਾਪਤਿ ਪਚਮਾਰ ਕੈ ਇਹ ਨ੍ਰਿਪ ਦਿਯੋ ਪਠਾਇ ॥੨੦॥ Reflecting on his bravery Raja appointed him as the supreme commander.(20) ਚੌਪਈ ॥ Chaupaee ਯਹ ਪਚਮਾਰ ਖਬਰਿ ਸੁਨ ਪਾਈ ॥ ਨਾਰਿ ਜੁਲਾਹੀ ਹੁਤੀ ਬੁਲਾਈ ॥ When the weaver heard this news, he called his wife. ਚਿਤ ਮੈ ਅਧਿਕ ਦੁਹੂੰ ਡਰ ਕੀਨੋ ॥ ਅਰਧ ਰਾਤਿ ਬਨ ਕੋ ਮਗੁ ਲੀਨੋ ॥੨੧॥ Both were terror stricken and, at the pitch of the night, took their way to the jungle.(21) ਜਬ ਤ੍ਰਿਯ ਸਹਿਤ ਜੁਲਾਹੋ ਭਾਜ੍ਯੋ ॥ ਤਬ ਹੀ ਘੋਰ ਘਟਾ ਘਨ ਗਾਜ੍ਯੋ ॥ When the weaver and his wife were running away, the thunder storm approached, ਕਬਹੂੰ ਚਮਿਕਿ ਬਿਜੁਰਿਯਾ ਜਾਵੈ ॥ ਤਬ ਮਾਰਗ ਕੋ ਚੀਨਨ ਆਵੈ ॥੨੨॥ And amidst the severe lightning, they lost their way.(22) ਮਗ ਤੈ ਭੂਲਿ ਤਿਸੀ ਮਗੁ ਪਰਿਯੋ ॥ ਜਹ ਨ੍ਰਿਪ ਅਰਿ ਕੋ ਲਸਕਰ ਢਰਿਯੋ ॥ Losing their way they came to the place where the Raja’s enemy were encamping. ਕੂੰਈ ਹੁਤੀ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਨਹਿ ਆਈ ॥ ਤਾ ਮੌ ਪਰਿਯੋ ਜੁਲਾਹੋ ਜਾਈ ॥੨੩॥ There was a, well which was not visible to them and the weaver fell in it.(23) ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥ Dohira ਜਬ ਤਾਹੀ ਕੂੰਈ ਬਿਖੈ ਜਾਇ ਪਰਿਯੋ ਬਿਸੰਭਾਰ ॥ When he fell in the well, became unconscious, ਤਬ ਐਸੇ ਤ੍ਰਿਯ ਕਹਿ ਉਠੀ ਆਨਿ ਪਰਿਯੋ ਪਚਮਾਰ ॥੨੪॥ Then the woman shoUted, ‘My dear lion killer has fallen there.’(24) ਅੜਿਲ ॥ Arril ਆਨਿ ਪਰਿਯੋ ਪਚਮਾਰ ਸਭਨ ਸੁਨਿ ਪਾਇਯੋ ॥ Ever body heard that the lion killer was there. ਅਤਿ ਲਸਕਰ ਚਿਤ ਮਾਹਿ ਸੁ ਤ੍ਰਾਸ ਬਢਾਇਯੋ ॥ The whole (enemy) army was panicked with fear. ਲੋਹ ਅਧਿਕ ਤਿਨ ਮਾਹਿ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਐਸੀ ਪਰਿਯੋ ॥ They started to fight with each other, ਹੋ ਜੋਧਾ ਤਿਨ ਤੇ ਏਕ ਨ ਜਿਯਤੇ ਉਬਰਿਯੋ ॥੨੫॥ And none of them was saved.(25) ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥ Dohira ਪੂਤ ਪਿਤਾ ਕੇ ਸਿਰ ਦਈ ਪਿਤਾ ਪੂਤ ਸਿਰ ਮਾਹਿ ॥ (In the melee) Even the father killed the son and the son killed the father, ਇਸੀ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਸਭ ਕਟਿ ਮਰੇ ਰਹਿਯੋ ਸੁਭਟ ਕੋਊ ਨਾਹਿ ॥੨੬॥ And this way they all cut each other and no fighter was left behind.(26) ਚੌਪਈ ॥ Chaupaee ਤਜ ਪੁਰ ਤਿਸੀ ਜੁਲਾਈ ਆਈ ॥ ਆਇ ਬਾਰਤਾ ਨ੍ਰਿਪਹਿ ਜਤਾਈ ॥ Then the weaver-woman came and told the Raja what had happened. ਜਬ ਯਹ ਭੇਦ ਰਾਵ ਸੁਨਿ ਪਾਯੋ ॥ ਪਠੈ ਪਾਲਕੀ ਤਾਹਿ ਬੁਲਾਯੋ ॥੨੭॥ When the Raja learned the secret, he sent palanquin and honoured the weaver.(27)(1) ਇਤਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਪਖ੍ਯਾਨੇ ਤ੍ਰਿਯਾ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰੇ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੀ ਭੂਪ ਸੰਬਾਦੇ ਤਿਰਾਨਵੋ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਸਮਾਪਤਮ ਸਤੁ ਸੁਭਮ ਸਤੁ ॥੯੩॥੧੬੭੧॥ਅਫਜੂੰ॥ Ninety-third Parable of Auspicious Chritars Conversation of the Raja and the Minister, Completed with Benediction. (93)(J669)
  6. Yes, I at that particular time, the Dal Panth were planning and re-planning every possible scenario in order to achieve their goal, which was to not let the invader return with 100% of his loot. The Sikhs were helped in this regard by the route that Nadir took on his return. Nader wanted to avoid the stifling plains so took a route futher north towards the mountain footholds. This favoured the Sikhs because the mountains provided excellent cover and secure base, but also because the speed of the river was much greater than on the plains with the greater decline of the land going downhill. The river was also a heavier at this time because of the season. Yes everything was in place and the strike had to be quite "surgical." The logs had to be released at a time, where they would catch the rear-end of the train. If it was too early, there would be more of an amry to fight. Too late and there would be none. I was quite impressed by this operation, which is why I started this topic and asked the question in the title. From what I've read on this Nadir empire was attacked by Pathans from Kandahar and kabul. These places were under the Moghal empire. Nadir sought redress from Delhi but when none was forthcoming he decided to invade.
  7. Lol, I can't remember it now.
  8. Thanks. Anyone who wishes to read it a little easier can download it and use zoom feature to read it a little easier. It does still require some concentration though as it will not be crystal clear. Bhangu doen't mention Baba Deep Singh's shaheedi either.
  9. ਛੜ - ??? I think it is some kind of tree bark.
  10. Khalsa Aid if it's accounts are anything to go by, is hoarding over a million pounds, and if its charity work is anything to go by, is not interested in the Sikhs or Panjab by any noticeable margin. Otherwise Gurdwaras are holding a lot of money but seem to be fixated on bricks and mortar development rather than anything else. In the UK, some people tried to set up a UK Gurdwara Prabandhak Committee. Unfortunately it morphed into the Sikh Council, which quite frankly was disappointing. My parents generation certainly are. They don't really have a clue these days. But with our generation when the time comes, we will be better at organising and such.
  11. @dalsingh101 Dal thats a bit hard to read. Have you got a clearer copy at all? I was listening to katha of Panth Prakash, and in it, Bhangu has written that the Dal Panth had no qualms in looting invaders, or the moghal government. In fact they looked upon it as honourable enterprise. I don't know. What SS sources tell thi story?
  12. Guru HarGobind Sahib when arranging Akal Sena made Bidhi Chand as one of its commanders. It could be that this command continued with Baba Bidhi Chand's descendents until it became a formal jatha. Baba Bidhi Chand Dal was not a misl. Personally I think that it was the descendents of Baba Ji who carried on the traditions of Baba Bidhi Chand and it was eventually established as a chhouni. Equally it may just be that Budha Dal set up the chhoni (as all tarna Dal's can only be set up with their permission.) Today there are many misls around Panjab, some of them are quite new, some of them have origins going back to times of Dal Panth. These are some other Dals: Tarna Dal, Mehta Chowk Tarna Dal Baba Bakala Tarna Dal Harian Bela . These are all Nihang Chhounis. Maybe next time you go Panjab, visit the Chouni and get some information?
  13. The invasion of Nadir was seen as the death-knell for the Moghal Empire as an effective fighting force able to hold onto the empire. Most likely but I think also the audacity of the Sikhs in attacking Nadir won a lot of support in Panjab. What hasn't he mentioned?
  14. That's good. Let's hope that when the rain season comes it will work better than last year.
  15. Makes you wonder what kind of a hold these people have when they can get others to these kinds of acts. In Africa, witch doctors/elders were advising Aids carriers to have sex with virgins and that would cure them, leading to a shocking rise in rapes and pregnancies. And the more spreading of the Aids virus.
  16. Do you think that maybe we need to add political power to that as well? Sikhs in the UK are considered quite educated and financially strong, but we don't seem to get much else done here.
  17. "Raag Kaanara (ਕਾਨੜਾ) – Kaanara invokes feelings of being overcome by a personality, which is so impressive that its character is difficult to stop thinking about. The personality conveyed has a magnetism, which makes you think of them as your own and is able to win you over with its remarkable qualities and outlook. " - https://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Kanara I thought it was a little unusual why a specific raag was mentioned so I had a quick look at the effects of Raag Kanra on a person's emotions. Was quite surprised to read the above quote. The charitar also states that the Queen used rose water to take the peoples present attention's to one side to facilitate the removal of the Naat. This is also listed as a propoerty of rosewater " 4. The aroma of roses is said to be a powerful mood enhancer. It rids you of feelings of anxiety and promotes emotional wellbeing, thereby making you look relaxed. Since it is de-stressing, it helps you sleep better which means you will wake up feeling fresh." Never knew that. Obviously the Queen did, so she when the situation threatened to get out of control, she had the immediate response at hand.
  18. Not disputed. It also succeeded in driving the Sikhs out of Bari Doab into Jalandhar and Malwa. I can't see him being embarrassed by it a great deal. Infuriated, yes. Yes, so his own masters were slaves. This pushes even further down the scale of power-holders. Actually ZK had already been defeated in battle by Nadir outside Lahore, after which he (ZK) offered his submission to Nadir. Nadir then moved onto Delhi. The partial destruction of Panjab moghal happened before the near-annihilation of Delhi moghal rule. I don't think that Nadir cared too much about it to be honest. Nadir was more concerned with carrying his loot back to Persia, and I would say was more annoyed that a band of rebels had taken from him, what imperial armies what afraid to take. He destroyed the Moghal army, only to be attacked by rebels living in the most meagre conditions. About what? I think that Sikhs did rescue and free captives in their attacks on Nadir (and also Abdali). I can't see the Sikhs as having just attacked Nadir's army to take wealth and leave the captives there. However at this time, we can also say that ZK/Lakhpat also did get some captives released.
  19. Was reading "History of the Punjab" and came across this : It's a reference to how people escaped with their lives by hiding in and then being carried out in baskets. An event that we see happening in the charitars on occasion.
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