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drawrof

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About drawrof

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    Jathedar||Jathedarni

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    neither here, nor there
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    thinking

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  1. .....I'm baaaack!!!!! look forward to engaging with everyone again :)

    1. amardeep

      amardeep

      Welcome back Singh :)

    2. drawrof

      drawrof

      Let's start a discussion :)

  2. I don't know much about him, please educate us on what he has spoken out against?
  3. Nij ghar, is that space within where one finds the palace of parmatma....here is my flawed translation of this: ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ ਪੂਰਬੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ रागु गउड़ी पूरबी महला ५ ॥ Rāg ga▫oṛī pūrbī mėhlā 5. Raag Gauree Poorbee, Fifth Mehl: ਕਰਉ ਬੇਨੰਤੀ ਸੁਣਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਮੀਤਾ ਸੰਤ ਟਹਲ ਕੀ ਬੇਲਾ ॥ करउ बेनंती सुणहु मेरे मीता संत टहल की बेला ॥ Kara▫o benanṯī suṇhu mere mīṯā sanṯ tahal kī belā. Listen, my friends, I beg of you: now is the time to serve the Saints! Drawrof: do a heartfelt request my dear friends, now is the time to engaging in/serving the peaceful mind (I read this as engaging guru-conciousness) ਈਹਾ ਖਾਟਿ ਚਲਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਲਾਹਾ ਆਗੈ ਬਸਨੁ ਸੁਹੇਲਾ ॥੧॥ ईहा खाटि चलहु हरि लाहा आगै बसनु सुहेला ॥१॥ Īhā kẖāt cẖalhu har lāhā āgai basan suhelā. ||1|| In this world, earn the profit of the Lord's Name, and hereafter, you shall dwell in peace. ||1|| Drawrof: Whatever you invest in now will go with you going forth and you will be in peace ਅਉਧ ਘਟੈ ਦਿਨਸੁ ਰੈਣਾਰੇ ॥ अउध घटै दिनसु रैणारे ॥ A▫oḏẖ gẖatai ḏinas raiṇāre. This life is diminishing, day and night. Drawrof: Same ਮਨ ਗੁਰ ਮਿਲਿ ਕਾਜ ਸਵਾਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ मन गुर मिलि काज सवारे ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ Man gur mil kāj savāre. ||1|| rahā▫o. Meeting with the Guru, your affairs shall be resolved. ||1||Pause|| Drawrof: your life will be set in pace and flow when your mind gets absorbed in guru (consciousness) ਇਹੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਬਿਕਾਰੁ ਸੰਸੇ ਮਹਿ ਤਰਿਓ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ॥ इहु संसारु बिकारु संसे महि तरिओ ब्रहम गिआनी ॥ Ih sansār bikār sanse mėh ṯari▫o barahm gi▫ānī. This world is engrossed in corruption and cynicism. Only those who know God are saved. Drawrof: This world you are currently absorbed in is full of fruitlessactions and doubts, only the one who ‘knows’ through experience floats above it without getting absorbed (again liberties taken in this translation) ਜਿਸਹਿ ਜਗਾਇ ਪੀਆਵੈ ਇਹੁ ਰਸੁ ਅਕਥ ਕਥਾ ਤਿਨਿ ਜਾਨੀ ॥੨॥ जिसहि जगाइ पीआवै इहु रसु अकथ कथा तिनि जानी ॥२॥ Jisahi jagā▫e pī▫āvai ih ras akath kathā ṯin jānī. ||2|| Only those who are awakened by the Lord to drink in this Sublime Essence, come to know the Unspoken Speech of the Lord. ||2|| Drawrof: whoever the guru (consciousness) absorbs through awakening (ie. Getting one’s mind out of ignorance) will ‘drink’ this ras….meaning they are floating and absorbing the ‘sublime essence’; they come to understand the ‘akath-katha’ (I don’t feel I can give an honest opinion to this at this point in my life) ਜਾ ਕਉ ਆਏ ਸੋਈ ਬਿਹਾਝਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਮਨਹਿ ਬਸੇਰਾ ॥ जा कउ आए सोई बिहाझहु हरि गुर ते मनहि बसेरा ॥ Jā ka▫o ā▫e so▫ī bihājẖahu har gur ṯe manėh baserā. Purchase only that for which you have come into the world, and through the Guru, the Lord shall dwell within your mind. Drawrof: What you’ve come here for (that which is mentioned above) is what you should be dealing in/working on/engaging with…and this will reside in your mind just like consciousness resides in har…or oangkar resides in eckankar. ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਮਹਲੁ ਪਾਵਹੁ ਸੁਖ ਸਹਜੇ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨ ਹੋਇਗੋ ਫੇਰਾ ॥੩॥ निज घरि महलु पावहु सुख सहजे बहुरि न होइगो फेरा ॥३॥ Nij gẖar mahal pāvhu sukẖ sėhje bahur na ho▫igo ferā. ||3|| Within the home of your own inner being, you shall obtain the Mansion of the Lord's Presence with intuitive ease. You shall not be consigned again to the wheel of reincarnation. ||3|| Drawrof: In your house within, you will realize the palace within and you will feel happiness intuitively with ease and never have to come back to pain again. ਅੰਤਰਜਾਮੀ ਪੁਰਖ ਬਿਧਾਤੇ ਸਰਧਾ ਮਨ ਕੀ ਪੂਰੇ ॥ अंतरजामी पुरख बिधाते सरधा मन की पूरे ॥ Anṯarjāmī purakẖ biḏẖāṯe sarḏẖā man kī pūre. O Inner-knower, Searcher of Hearts, O Primal Being, Architect of Destiny: please fulfill this yearning of my mind. Drawrof: The inner knower, that which is within everything-everywhere, the one who ultimately decides my destiny, please complete what my mind is willing to accept (in all humility. Sardha is accepting the truth/bachan of the guru) ਨਾਨਕ ਦਾਸੁ ਇਹੈ ਸੁਖੁ ਮਾਗੈ ਮੋ ਕਉ ਕਰਿ ਸੰਤਨ ਕੀ ਧੂਰੇ ॥੪॥੫॥ नानक दासु इहै सुखु मागै मो कउ करि संतन की धूरे ॥४॥५॥ Nānak ḏās ihai sukẖ māgai mo ka▫o kar sanṯan kī ḏẖūre. ||4||5|| Nanak, Your slave, begs for this happiness: let me be the dust of the feet of the Saints. ||4||5|| Drawrof: Nanak, the one who is one, says the servant of that one is asking for that one ‘peace’ that one that makes ‘me’ the dust/residue of that peace which those who have already traversed this path have received.
  4. Gurfateh ji, I translated but took a lot of liberties. Please point out areas which you feel can make this more truthful or anything I may clear up and let's work on this together.. Vivhaaraik satta- the existence through which the world functions. Where the creative, sustaining and destructive energies we commonly refer to as brahma, Vishnu etc control the creation-sustenance-destruction process that everyone and everything is bound to. Parmarthak satta- one life force (eyk parmesar) is the substratum to which nothing is external. So everything is part of that one (why we don’t see that is because of the veil of ignorance that we are subjected to in our uninitiated/sleep state) Praatheebhaasak satta- That which becomes true after knowledge of its true essence. It is like being under a false impression until the reality is revealed. Brahmgyani’s are not stuck in manners or ways due to experience, instead they have gone through the process of praatheebhasak satta to know what the parmarthak satta is of everything.
  5. knowledge is good if understood, felt and applied. What is everyone's thoughts?
  6. Premi, Sorry just came back on this forum today. I shall look into this and find the quote. I haven't gone back to trace what I was responding to, but on seeing your questioning...I'd agree..nothing happened.
  7. Prem Sumarag Granth/param sumarag granth which is believed have been written in 1701 talks of amrit sanchaar for women.
  8. The claim of the hindu-sikh sanatan thing was the biggest issue they had from what I saw. What about sampuran singh nihangs claim of being the same? I feel, from what I see, that people like holding onto titles and don't scratch below the surface to see what is going on and how/why things have evolved.
  9. I came across a reference, almost a decade ago now, of how the first charanpahul occured with bhai lehna during gurugaddi when bhai lehna ji became guru angad...the source was ishar singh nara. Any comments? can anyone corroborate.
  10. A path which is meant to be experienced and causes for a ceaseless battle against the mind, through engaging the mind and heart...continously can not 'adequately' be "branded" as A or B.... This branding takes away the current agency and throws the engagement into a mode that is suspended in time..I agree there is a shared heritage but people are constantly looking for secrets within gurbani because their own mind 'resists' facing itself. What if terms such as saadh, sant, and especially 'naam' are not just simple signifiers allowing one to engage with gurbani to open up experience as opposed to deducing a logic? So I say that we , as a collective, knew what was meant at one time when they said 'sikhi gaadi rah ya' (it is a straight route); the problem these days is that we have turned the sidhant into a fetish...I place myself at the forefront of this...
  11. Firstly, I'd like to apologize to Dalsinghfor not starting the new topic. It was the canada day long weekend here and I was riddled with alot of events. I would like to add in my 2 cents though. I read in a book by gyani ishar singh nara, that the first charanamrit ceremony occured when bhai lehna became guru angad sahib. This poses the question as to whether guru nanak had actually been giving gyan as opposed to setting up dharamsals. We read sidh gosht, but is there ever a mention of those naths or the bairagi's for whom japji sahib was created/explained as being gursikhs? Could it be that Guru Nanak had engaged in charcha and showed due respect to the bhagats but they had actually verified gurmat in their own way? (I'm not doing a one up here or a reverse one-up and taking a jab at the guru's in any way, so I apologize if it is coming across that way). I am merely saying that if the meetings did occur, they may have been influenced by gurmat and they were given the accolade of 'bhagats' because they were in line with what gurmat encompassed...where bhagti and gyan come together. I would say that sikhi being universal is a prachar that would be more in line with the politics around the 'enlightenment' period that was in vogue when early singh sabha'ites were interpreting sikhi through a new framework. In 6 patshah's time, sikhs were 'khalsa'/'darbari'/sahlangi....khalsa (those who took initiation from guru hargobind sahib), darbari (those who travelled with the darbar), sahlangi (those who took initiation from masands).....I believe there was room for everyone.
  12. So are you suggesting that because someone is a relative of the Guru they are infallible? Thinking like this comes and goes. Look at how (according to old manuscripts) people used to think Guru Nanak Dev ji was a reincarnation of Raja Janak (read Dabistan), how many Sikhs think that now? DalSingh, I have read that the visit that was made to the nanakpanthi dera in dabistan-i-mazhab was actually a visit to a 'mina' dharamsal and that would make sense as prithi chand was the head administrator in guru ram das ji's darbar and had control over darbar sahib at that time...which would have still been considered the sikh spiritual center. Now, according to the janam sakhis written by the minas (ie. bala janamsakhis...which comes from their lineage); guru nanak was raja janak and then later kabir was his guru....I will provide some references for this in a few hours. It is probably 11:15ish uk time for you, but it is only 6:15am in toronto and I'll be heading home in a few hours. if at that point I can't back up what I'm saying....I'll do one of those fake 'das-maafi-khima de jaachak' spiels. If not, then we can continue dialoging. My point in referencing this is that the mina's had an agenda where they had to prove the sodhi meherban and hariji were spiritually more elevated than guru arjan sahib and guru hargobind sahib. Some historians credit the vaars of bhai gurdas being a guide to what the guru-community should be following in the absence of guru hargobind sahibs exile in gwalior. It would make sense in many ways as people naturally thought prithi chand was the 'heir' as he was the administrative head and according to what I've read in the 'uthanka' guru arjan sahib had written 'kahe re man chitveheh' in rahraas sahib when bhai gurdas ji had come back from bengal (I believe) and was wondering why the 'maya' had decreased at darbar sahib. just points to ponder.
  13. I tried logging into the site but I can't from work. We have the goindval pothi's and the har sahai pothi which were written at the time of the guru's. We also have birs with the guru's signature in the british library and other places around north america. their god is pure...but then if evil isn't god's creation...is evil a parallel creation created by another diety? if so, does their god have a nemesis? We believe in reincarnation and the cycle ends with knowing that god exists within us and that we are god. So heaven and hell are mental states at best. have they any proof apart from faith that heaven and hell exist apart from a promise?
  14. I'm voting for the candidate this time around. The only problem is that each candidate will take the side of their party leader. Personally, an NDP like social concscience with conservative fiscal policy would be ideal for me. I'm not big on centralized governments, but the NDP policies will make us stronger.
  15. Hello, I'll make my response short... 1) Be careful of the spiritual masters you approach. A friend of mine who became a muslim felt that there was an innate spirituality lacking and he became sufi. Within 4-5 years he became very strict and was expected to focus on certain hadiths etc etc. He realised that it was very cult-like and in talking to others who were part of different orders....the trends were very much the same. It is akin to our 'dodgy' baba syndrome. Now, what he did make very clear to me was. Some...NOT ALL...Some Sufi path's don't focus on hadith's, but many do....and it is the fact that they bring in 'innovation' that puts them at odds with the mainstream. 2) Maharaja Ranjit Singh had many virtues and vices, as do we all. he wasn't literate....so reading namaz may not have been something he had memorized. I recall reading somewhere that he couldn't even recite mul mantar until he was 19-20. His biggest virtue was his respect for saadhu's/sants/pirs 3) My understanding of the history of 'religion' and how sikhi has fallen into this category really makes me wonder if we are even looking at sikhi properly. This, in no way, undermines more traditional paths/approaches. My own experience has shown me that our 'sahib' is 'sada meherbaan'. If you are earnest in what you are looking for, it will come to you. If you meet someone who is the real deal....learn more from their nature and experience. Not everyone who looks the part, is playing the part......that applies to everyone everywhere.
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