Pheena

WJKK WJKF All!!! :-)

Waheguru has blessed dass with a child and lil one should be entering our world around May 2011, making me nearly six months pregnant, now heres my question.

Throughout pregnancy I have been told various things by various gursikhs about sikhi and the soul etc etc.......but what puzzles me is: -

When the soul enters the body, does it even experience suffering?

At what point does waheguru begin rakhiah of the soul.....surely there has to be a peroid of suffering for the soul.....

as per gurbani tuks where Guru Maharaj talks about the pain of being in the womb, but also talks about waheguru nurturing the soul and protecting it whist in the womb, at this point my confusion begins.

Could some you you enlighten souls please help point in the right direction as to whats going on in my uterus on a spiritual level.......i am very curious to understand it....

bhul check khima

WJKK WJKF

The soul does not experience suffering per say. It is the Jiva (Soul + Mind) which enters the flesh. Suffering when it is spoke about the child in the womb is not suffering because it is in the womb. The Suffering is a response to taking birth into Maya which in its nature is the cause of Karmic suffering. The Karmic account must be settles so this Jiva has taken birth into this Suffering world and the process through which it must come into this world is also taken into this journey and spoken as suffering.

The protection that the Guru speaks of refers to the innocence of the child is in the likeness of Divinity, thus ever-pervading Parm-Atma nurtures the Jiva that is taking birth. The Karmic accounts of the child have not bore fruits so in its state of pure innocence the child is in the protection of the Divine.

To question when and how all of this happens is unfortunately known to very few Bramgianis. It is not commonly spoken about in normal conversation.

btw congratulations bhen ji!!

Q: I understand that life begins at conception but does this mean a soul enters the mother’s womb at the same time i.e. during conception or does it enter sometime later during pregnancy?

A: Vrinda, about this, one thing is to be understood the soul doesn’t enter. If you are using the word soul as an alternate to the hindi word ‘atma’ then I would say this is wrong choice of word. No.1, the right choice of the word would be the individual soul, the ‘jivatama’ not the ‘atma’ and secondly, the timing of the individual soul to enter into the womb is not during the conception or after the conception has happened. Actually, the mind of the individual soul is already present being pushed & pulled towards that right combination as per the karmic accounts to be settled. And then the mind begins to open up itself, it’s samskaras, impressions and karmic account & from there henceforth the body gets created.

So we can say that the conception is followed by the presence of that individual soul right there & right at that moment when that man & woman are having the intercourse. So it is not during & it is not after. But this is something which is very mysterious and what I am saying is coming from the sources of those great evolved individuals who had ability to see this happening. And it’s not a small thing; it’s most complicated & most mysterious thing. But which happen to be possible to some individuals who could have the first hand information about this whole process.

Indulge your passions....... you'll eventually get bored and thus get it out of your mind when you realise that the satisfaction is merely temporary. It may take years and even lifetimes but it does work (apparently).

This method may work, but only under the proper and strict guidance of a true living Master. It cannot be practiced from hearsay or books.

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all!

Some preachers plead. Reading the Guru is doing Naam Simran.

My curiosity is to know. Since when are you reading the Guru? Do you feel it is Naam Simran?

Balbir Singh

I think first we should look at the meaning of Simran. Simran, derived from the word Simurn means to remember. Driving home today I will remember my co-worker, not by reciting his/her name, but simply because I had a direct experience with that person. I will not need to say Ben Ben Ben Ben to remember him.

How can I, this Jiva, do Simran of that Naam for which I have no experience of?

This is a very good question. I've wondered about this myself more than few times. To think how long these Yug's really are and to think that I, this Jiva, never in those thousands and thousands of years came across a True Guru to liberate me......until this lifetime. OR perhaps I did, but never follow through with the Guru's Word!! Such ignorance and lack of self-motivation! To think I still suffer from the same vices that I have been dealing with all the countless past lives.

I'm not even sure if its worth it anymore to take anything that happens in this life seriously...I mean, how many times, in how many births will I cry at someone's funeral, how many times my heart will be broken by girls or boys and I would think that it was the end of the world for me, how many times I will laugh at the same jokes, time and time again. To think I stand knocking at the same lustfull thoughts, angry rocks, wearing the same arrogant socks. <couldn't think of anything else that rhymed with rocks >

When the Guru says, you are fortunate to be in SadhSangat, the word Fortunate does not even cover 1% of the value behind the Guru's statement. It is unfathomable to think that I, this Jiva spend countless lives wandering around only to come at this point, in this life, in this body, in this circle of Divine circumstance to realize that I am not who I thought I was....

fear or curiosity will tranform into prem. doesnt fear of Guru turn into love of Guru? or something like that. have heard that the initial step is of fear of remaining in churasi, which then turns to prem of Guru, who relaeases from churasi.

I don't disagree with you there veer, but I don't think there is fear in the words of the OP.

My comment was coming from the point of view that often times our mind has an itch to scratch and we scratch it with asking questions that are floater. By floaters I mean questions that don't invoke a deep response, but are simply scratching an itch on the surface that does next to nothing on this Adhiatmic journey. ie: tea leafs.

Just to be clear, I'm not against asking questions, but I am simply trying to provoke a deeper question than what Tea Leafs to use.

Your last sentence implies 'disciple being ready' is also necessary. Ain't 'being ready' and 'out searching' same thing?

If the world is still a priority within the mind of the Searcher, then your search will be futile. We project outwards to the existence exactly what is within us and we attract ourselves towards that. If this searcher has lit the flame of Vairaag within, then you are ready, your heart is prepared for the seed to be sown and the One who has the capacity to show you, will find you. It is not simply searching out there, but searching out there with urgency and Vairaag.

If a Guru is the sole necessity then why is a title of being called a Sikh etc a requirement for you?

I feel the Guru's have built a ground where one can nurture their bhagti and if the intuitive voice comes calling to divert to other Samparda's, then I don't see why it has to be debated or questioned.

If the inquiry here is about a road-map of where to go and how to get there, then you have a huge burden on your head as the directions will change depending on who you ask.

The Bhagtas say, "I don't know where you are at, but you know exactly where I am at, so you come find me". It is not necessary for a Bhagta to go out searching, it is said that when the disciple is read, the Guru comes to find him/her. Are we ready?

So wait...Are you (Balbir Singh) Advocating that God is Lustful or Are you curious why God is Lustful?

Why does curiosity gives rise to inquiry about Rules and Regulation and not and inquiry of Love?

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all and Khalsa Fauj Jee!

This post is just to wake this thread.

As long as one exists in Jagat (world), he is a part of it.

Kabeer Jee is singing.

ਕਬੀਰ ਬਾਮਨੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਜਗਤ ਕਾ ਭਗਤਨ ਕਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਹਿ ॥

कबीर बामनु गुरू है जगत का भगतन का गुरु नाहि ॥

Kabeer baamanu guroo hai jagat kaa bhagtan kaa guru naahi. SGGS Ang 1377

Can someone please explain? Why Sikhs do not accept the Baaman as Guru?

Have Sikhs become Bhagats?

Balbir Singh

I believe Bhagat Kabir ji here is referring to the worldly attachment of the Baaman and they serving to the common man's worldly desire, instead of leading the common man to liberation from this world, the World (maya) becomes the Guru as it provides them of status of being a baaman and their ego is praised by the common man.

But for a Bhagat, the Guru is he is not engrossed in the World (Maya).

Is there no alternative product which can give you the same result from wine? If not, then are these nutrients for you body absolutely necessary, that you won't be able to do with out them? If you can't do without them, then how important/significant is your activity that is requiring this wine in your life?

Jesus said, even with the thought of beding another's wife, you have already sinned. (i'm parapharsing).How does the thought of doing an immoral act differ from the actual act. If such is the case and the words of Jesus are indeed his words and are divine, then we Sin every moment we get angry, fill ourselves w/ lust for another woman or get greedy for anothers possesions. The thought proceeding the act is equal to the act? The origin of Sin, the seed of the Sin has already been planted, the fruit is the action. Are our thoughts registered in the book of our karmic debt? I think the point that Jesus was trying to make is that to watch your mind, do not worry about your actions so much, instead look at the origin of when a thought to harm another or take what is not yours sprouts. That our Sins begin in the mind, not in our actions.

Sin is a thought/act that lacks compassion.

I feel a great tendency to avoid making Sin into a black and white thing. For example Lying is wrong or even sinful, yet I cannot help but consider the circumstance when lying is a necessity to protect the Truth. Killing is Sin, yet when it happens in War or in self-defense it is acceptable. Killing an animal is a sin, but when one is starving in the jungles to feed oneself or their family it is acceptable.

Every act is circumstantial and without inquring as to the intent of the individual, we become the jamdoots of passing judgement on others.

that is a really heavy documentary. I was being pulled in and out by it.. maybe because it was lunch time and i was hungry.

overall i liked it.

Try waking up about an hour earlier than you currently do. Most often you experience these things after your normal sleep cycle has completed.

A very thought prevoking reply shaahediyan pahji, i whole-heartedly agree with your sentiments, but if, for example, when making the decision to marry, one, is still very unsettled within themselves, and is in danger of using marraige as pretext of escaping or covering up the real issues one needs to deal with............... how do feelings and emotions for your spouses remain under control so that your spiritual journey does not become over-shadowed?

You cannot avoid this wave of emotions, all you can hope for is that you are able to ride it out. The emotional attachment that occurs between 2 married couples has its purpose, to build a bond that will last through their life together. But when this bond become a prison and not a medium to build a relationship the down-spiral begins. Like the Moh of a mother must also transform into Love which free the child when he grows up. Similarly this emotional bond must also migrate into the realm of unconditional Love for one another. If both individuals understand the importance of Love and how to love one another then it is a positive sign that these emotions and feelings will rise then fade away when they are ready to do so.

Unless like shaheediyan veer said that 2 individual grew up together, it is next to impossible to eliminate all fears and insecurities before you get married. For the most part marriage is a gamble that requires you to take a risk on issues. Generally speaking I don't think one can ever be 100% certain that this person I'm about to marry is the one for me.

I find it interesting that Tao also started his book on the Japji Sahib with the same story as Osho did in his The True Name.

those were the good ol' days!!

I see both interpretations to be relevant to the context of one's outlook and position.

If God can be considered the Ultimate Ego, and we are sparks or Individual Egos that spring from that Ultimate Ego, then at root it can be said that we too are God, we too are that same Ultimate Ego--so are we then egotistical because we are essentially japping our own name, us being God and all?

this is a very deep observation and i can't help but agree to it :!:

how can god be realised then? if hes choosing wether people go to heaven, hell or wat to be reborn as surely he has some sort of judgement?

This is the problem the Orthodox Christianity has created in the West. Fear of Hell and a desire for heaven, again you are forced to live in Duality. God=Good and Devil=Bad, enslaving even God in duality. They have completely cutoff the Nirgun aspect of divinity to the masses.

God does not give 2 rupees whether you jap his naam or not. God is what God is with or without your praise.

Your 'choice' to jap his name liberates 'you', it has nothing to do with God.

To provoke a question of Ego, must mean that God has a Mind which personifies God and confines God to an attribute of duality. Where there is Duality, there cannot be something called God.

The sooner we realize that God cannot be understood by or through the Mind and nor is God a product of the mind, the better off we are going to be.

If he sees himself as a spiritual master/teacher then his aim would be to lead people to true happiness. Yet, he doesn't see anyone 'happy' so may feel he's failed his mission OR it's his empathy towards peoples pain that makes him cry.

An interesting question. I've heard in Katha that the only time Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji ever had tears in their eyes was when they were asked to tear up the 'bedhava' written by the 40 mukte. On the other hand, I've heard that Guru Har Rai Ji was always in bairaag.

thats exactly what i felt as well, the tears express the humanity of even a Master. It was a window moment into the compassion of the one who has gone beyond duality.

I assure you, that has nothing to do with the reason.

HE ALONE KNOWS to whom He will reveal Himself under which form.

By what path and in what manner He attracts any particular man to Himself with great force is incomprehensible to the human intellect.

The path differs indeed for different pilgrims.

Before you click on the video, I would like for you just watch the video and not read the comments. I'd like for you to think on your own about the question in the Title of this thread.

The context of the 1 min video has very much to do with the emotions expressed in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJyX9vFT7aw...feature=related