Mithar

The following link contains Sarabloh Kavach http://www.scribd.com/doc/50631587/Sarabloh-Kavach It is from Sri Dasam Granth?

Amazing Shabads. Really well sung. Guru Jee's bani in Shabad Hazare Patshahi 10 is simply too good. It's still shocking how some Naastik minded people can doubt Dasam Bani.

PatiBartha Dharm is the Dharm of the ideal Indian woman who is faithful and obedient to her husband. The reason it is mentioned when talking about good Sikh women is because this is traditionally considered a praiseworthy quality for a woman to have. But due to western/feminist influence these types of traditional qualities are no longer considered sought after. Patibartha Dharm along with Sharam, chastity and modesty were considered not only good qualities amongst Sikh women but amongst all Indian women.

WOW, you have a lot of hate for people from the Pends don't you?

If I were in your place, I would drink all the apple juice I could have. Nothing like having fresh apple juice.

Arms training to Dera Sacha Sauda followers Alarmed, SGPC wants govt to act tough Tribune News Service Amritsar, July 8 The SGPC and Akal Takht today expressed concern over reports that the Dera Sacha Sauda was reportedly providing arms training to its followers at its headquarters in Sirsa. Talking to The Tribune, SGPC Chief Avtar Singh Makkar asked why those who claim to be spreading religion needed a private army. He said that the Centre had sent out a stern warning to Baba Ramdev who had announced his plan to raise an army of his 11,000 followers a few days earlier. “Similarly, the government should act tough against Dera Sacha Sauda too.” Akal Takht Jathedar Giani Gurbachan Singh said the SGPC should take the issue seriously and should raise it with the state as well as the Union Government. “Today, this dera is raising a private army. Tomorrow, others may follow suit. This is not a good sign,” he said adding that the government should act immediately on the matter. http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20110709/punjab.htm#1

This is an amazing find. Such temples are only to be found in South India.

I think people use the term "God" for lack of a better word in English. Singh2 is probably one of the most knowledgeable Singhs out there when it comes to the topic of Sri Dasam Granth Jee. I've even put a quote of his on my signature at the bottom.

The thing about Janam Sakhis is that maybe 10% may be incorrect, but that does not mean we should discard the rest of the 90%. That would amount to throwing the baby along with the bath water. Sikhs will be the first ones to argue fanatically against anything that shows or proves the greatness of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee or Sikhi over the rest. We like to claim, Sabb te vadda Satgur Nanak(SatGuru Nanak is the Greatest!), but in reality the Sikh Qaum does not beleive in this statement. ਇਸੇ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਤਾਂ ਸਿਖਾਂ ਦਾ ਇਨਾ ਬੇੜਾ ਗਰਕਿਆ ਹੈ| ਕਿਨੀ ਅਫਸੋਸ ਵਾਲੀ ਗੱਲ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਸਾਨੂੰ ਆਪਣੇ ਲਿਖੇ ਇਤਿਹਾਸ ਤੇ ਯਕੀਨ ਨਹੀਂ, ਮਗਰ ਜੇ ਕੋਈ ਮਗ਼ਰਿਬ (west) ਤੋਂ ਮੁਤਾਸਿਰ ਹੋਇਆ ਫੋਕਾ ਵਿਦਵਾਨ ਕੁਝ ਕਹੈ ਦਵੇ ਤਾਂ ਅਸੀਂ ਆਪਣੇ ਰਚੇ ਹੋਏ ਇਤਿਹਾਸਿਕ ਗ੍ਰੰਥਾਂ ਅਤੇ ਸੀਨੇ ਬਸੀਨੇ ਤੋਂ ਚਲੀ ਆ ਰਹੀ ਪਰੰਪਰਾਵਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਰੱਦ ਕਰ ਦੇਂਦੇ ਹਾਂ| ਸਾਨੂੰ ਆਪਣੇ ਆਪ ਤੇ ਬਹਤ ਅਫਸੋਸ ਕਰਨਾ ਚਾਹੀਦਾ ਹੈ|

Sikhs are probably the only religious group which puts more faith in western academic or orientalist scholars than their own traditional oral and biographical history of their religious leader/founders. This is what has led Sikhs to even doubt whether or not Bhai Lalo was an actual person and this is precisely what has led many orientalist Sikhs to even deny the Panja Sahib Sakhi, Banghdad and Meccay wali Sakhi, Guru jee meeting with the Bhagats and even about the traditional Sikh account of Baba Deep Singh Jee's shaheedi. You will never see Christian doubting stories that show how great Jesus was like he walked on water, cured the sick etc. You will never see Muslim doubting traditional stories of Mohammad like him splitting the moon. You will never see Hindus doubting the existence of a man with a elephant head or monkey man. These are all far out mythical claims made by members of the Christian, Islamic and Hindu faiths. Yet Guru Nanak Dev Jee meeting with the Bhagats and giving them Naam is not even a miraculous story and is even supported by puraatan Sikh and nonSikh sources and that show the greatness of their Guru, yet you will see Sikhs showing the most opposition to these events. Wah Jee Wah!

In regards to Bhagat Namdev Jee. The following was found on the Tapoban forum: We also have the oldest source of Gurbani, the Goindwal pothis saying: "ਕਬੀਰ ਨਾਮਾ ਭਗਤ ਗੁਰੂ ਬਾਬੇ ਕੇ"

Yes, they are taking his birth date from Macouliff. Whenever you see their reference they always refer to Macouliff because Macouliff was considered a very great historian of his time. The greatest proof of Bhagat Namdev being of a later era is his own bani from this very famous shabad: ਹਲੇ ਯਾਰਾਂ ਹਲੇ ਯਾਰਾਂ ਖੁਸਿਖਬਰੀ ॥ ਬਲਿ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਂਉ ਹਉ ਬਲਿ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਂਉ ॥ ਨੀਕੀ ਤੇਰੀ ਬਿਗਾਰੀ ਆਲੇ ਤੇਰਾ ਨਾਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਕੁਜਾ ਆਮਦ ਕੁਜਾ ਰਫਤੀ ਕੁਜਾ ਮੇ ਰਵੀ ॥ ਦ੍ਵਾਰਿਕਾ ਨਗਰੀ ਰਾਸਿ ਬੁਗੋਈ ॥੧॥ ਖੂਬੁ ਤੇਰੀ ਪਗਰੀ ਮੀਠੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਬੋਲ ॥ ਦ੍ਵਾਰਿਕਾ ਨਗਰੀ ਕਾਹੇ ਕੇ ਮਗੋਲ ॥੨॥ ਚੰਦੀ ਹਜਾਰ ਆਲਮ ਏਕਲ ਖਾਨਾਂ ॥ ਹਮ ਚਿਨੀ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹ ਸਾਂਵਲੇ ਬਰਨਾਂ ॥੩॥ ਅਸਪਤਿ ਗਜਪਤਿ ਨਰਹ ਨਰਿੰਦ ॥ ਨਾਮੇ ਕੇ ਸ੍ਵਾਮੀ ਮੀਰ ਮੁਕੰਦ ॥੪॥੨॥੩॥ The text in bold translates to "Why are there Moghals in the holy city of Dwaarikaa? ||2||" The mughals did not arrive in India and establish their empire until 1526 when they defeated the Afghans at the battle of Panipat. This is also the time period of when Guru Nanak Dev Jee was physically on earth in bodily form. I would also like to point out that historically there was more than one Namdev. It is very much possible that the people confuse all the Namdevs as being the same person just as we confuse the first Baba Farid the Pathan to Baba Farid Sani.

True, since my childhood I was also taught that all religions are the same and all lead to the same place, and the example of the Bhagats was always cited as an example of this thought. Out of ignorance I believed this and even proudly state this in order to show what a great religion Sikhi is. Then once a Muslim friend of mine said to me: "if Sikhism believes that all religions are equal and the same, then what incentive does a Muslim, Christian, Hindu or Buddhist have to leave their religion and convert to Sikhism?" I was left speechless to say the least. Then I started to analyze Gurbani itself and seeing tukhs like Hindu Anna, Turku Kaana and the Savaiya from Rehras Sahib "Raam, Rahim, Puraan, Kuraan, Anekh kahe mat ek na manyo" started getting me to think that does Sikhi beleive that all religions are the same? or is there more to this. If Sikhi does not offer anything new or unique than any other religion out there, were our ancestors who left Hindu dharm for Sikh dharm, were they all fools? Surely not, they saw the uniqueness and greatness of Guru Nanak Dev Jee and realized the truth.

These birth dates are based on Max Arthur Macouliff's guess over a 100 years ago. We already have puraatan Sikh and non Sikh sources stating that the Bhagats had met with Guru Nanak Dev Jee, so the birth dates given given by Macouliff can be discarded from this discussion. Even the birth dates given by Macouliff from logical stand point do not make sense if you bring in other historical factors.

LOL, he's probably married and has children by now

This section of the Vaars deal with events from the lives of the Bhagats of the Bhagti movement and even the Bhagats of the previous Yugas. These events give spiritual moral lesson to the readers. They are called Dhrishtaants. These Dhristaants inspire the reader to also be as spiritually eager as the Bhagats. The eagerness of Bhagat Kabir jee presented in this story is inspirational and shows that Sikhs should also be as eager if they want to achieve spiritual heights. The Vaars are full of Dhristaants from start to end.

True. but they should also be given a course on how to counter the Kala Afghanists. These communistic minded Sikhs are the ones who are causing the most damage right now and are dividing the Panth.

In addition that that: *Giani Gian Singh Nirmala's Twareek Guru Khalsa also confirms Guru jee meeting with the Bhagats. *Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwalay also confirms this. His Gurmat vidhya lineage goes all the way back to Guru Gobind Singh Jee. ---------------------- I agree with you on the point that it can be quite possible that there may have been more than one historical Jaidev just as it is confirmed that their were more than one Naamdev.

According to the following link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amarkantak#Kabir_chabutra_.28the_platform_of_saint_Kabir.29 These are places that are known to Kabir Panthis. We Sikhs do not even know of these places. Just imagine the unknown portions of Sikh Guru history we are yet to discover. Sab Te Vadda Satgur Nanak!

Try to get your hands on Giani Gurdit Singh's book on Ithihas Bhagat Bani. That is probably the best and most well researched book on this topic. Giani Jee leaves no stone unturned to prove that the Bhagats were not only contemporaries of Guru Nanak Dev Jee but also took Naam from him. It is the (Dhur Ki)Bani after they took Naam from Guru Nanak Dev Jee that was included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. While the Bani that they wrote before getting Naam from Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee was not included and is not considered Dhur Ki Bani by the Sikhs. I remember Bijla Singh of Sikh Sangat forum wrote some excellent posts regarding this issue.

Mir Manu??? wasn't he a Muslim?

Sikhs are rediscovering lost chapters of their history. According to older Sikh sources, the Bhagats met with Guru Nanak Dev Jee and even got Naam from him. But when the British took over their historian Max Arthur Macouliff disregarded old held traditions of the SIkhs and asserted that the Bhagats were not even contemporaries of Guru Nanak Dev Jee. So it is our choice, whether we want to believe in British created history or traditional Sikh history based on primary(puraatan) Sikh sources. http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20110508/punjab.htm

a reply to this post was:

The debate on this link is directly related to the topic we are discussing now. I'm convinced that the Bhagats did meet with Guru Nanak Dev Jee. http://www.tapoban.org/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=8841&t=8841&v=f

Bhai Gurdas Dhian Varaan is not a Janamsakhi type scripture which presents jeevan sakhis of the Gurus or Bhagats. The saakhis that are mentioned in Bhai Gurdas Dhian Varaan are only used as Dristhaants.