Mithar

True. The riots against the Sikhs had started way earlier during 1946. But Sikhs did not react until 1947. Had the Sikhs reacted strongly in 1946 maybe the outcome might have been different.

The article posted by DalSingh is very interesting. It shows that the English (Americans and British) have not learned from history. The author of the article is a person named Dr. Preeti Nalwa. Could she be a relative of Hari Singh Nalwa by any chance?

Seems like Abbott was a real villain. And yes, it is such an irony that the city where the Angrez were plotting Jihad against the Sikhs, fate chose the same city to house the modern face of Jihad Osama. The British also secretly supported the first known Wahabi Jihad of Syad Ahmad Barelvi and Shah Ismael(grandson of Shah Walliulla). But Sikhs crushed that Jihad during the battle of Balakot where Syad Ahmad Barelvi and Shah Ismael both died. Shah Ismael may not be such a known figure amongst the Sikhs, but amongst the Muslims of South Asia he is well known since he was the grandson of Shah Walliulla, who is regarded as an authoritative figure amongst the Muslims of South Asia. It was he who invited Ahmad Shah Abdali to invade India and defeat the Marathas which he did during the 3rd battle of Panipat.

Someone wrote this on the comments section.

1500 vs 16000 is way over exaggerated. Lets not forget that the Sikh army was a modern army of it's time unlike other non European armies which lacked knowledge of modern warfare. British accounts of the Anglo Sikh wars are extremely bias and usually always show British as being outnumbered and over inflate Sikh army.

LOL even many NRI SIkhs are in this business in India. Even my family is in the builder business. Even though we live in Canada, still someone from the family goes to India once a year to buy a plot of land in Ludhiana or Jalandhar and make a house or stores on it and sell it for a profit. It is really profitable work.

I did not mention Sikh youths. I said Sikh leaders. Badal is useless as a leader. But in the future if and whenever we have a useful visionary leader, it would be wise on his part to look beyond India (look beyond the well) and establish relations independently of Delhi. Sikhs need to stop caring "what will Indians think" type mentality. Sikh leaders need to think of the Panth first and then anyone else second. For a Sikh leader the interests of the Panth should be first rather then thinking "what about this or that"? Due to globalization, Sikhs need to think globally rather then being stuck in the well. In 1962, the China Soviet conflict had just begun, but it was not serious enough to cause a war between the two. That was much later in the late 60s which eventually split the communist world in two camps. In 1962 war, China had actually over run and occupied Arunanchal, they still gave it back to India after the war because Arunanchal was not their objective. If they really wanted Arunanchal they would have simply kept it and not give it back and India could have done nothing at the time. Arunanchal is only now used as a scare tactic. You need to understand in the world of diplomacy this is common. I still don't understand what this has got to do with India's good relations with Soviets. Nehru being a bumb idiot is his own doing not the soviet union's fault. If a family has a Nalayak foolish son, you cannot blame the neighbors for this just because the foolish Nalayak son has friendly relation with the neighbor. Russia and China now are different from the realities of the cold war. Russia will be a 1st world economy within 2 decades and China will surpass the US in a decade as the largest economy. The winds of change are blowing at a different direction and India should realize this and have good relations with China. Russia knows what the west is up to which is why they are trying to make India and China come close to one another.

Badal is a stooge of the BJP. He only cares for himself and his family. If and whenever Sikhs have a leader who will selflessly care for the Panth, then he should develope relations with China independently of India. The SGPC has a lot of potential if only used by the right leader. In 1962 war while India was getting beaten, Nehru asked US for military help which the US refused. Regardless of military aid, India was at the mercy of China since it had advantages over India militarily. China could have done all it wanted and more. At the time, China was not a nation that cared about world opinion which is what Nehru failed to realize. Arunanchal was for China's taking as she pleased and India could have done nothing. But China didn't take it simply because she knew that India had been badly defeated and the Chinese objective of the invasion had been fulfilled. Arunanchal and other parts of India are only being claimed by China only as a counter measure to keep India at check. It is more of a diplomatic issue now than a real military threat. Indian media tends to over exaggerate the Chinese threat to keep viewers more eager to listen to the news since Pakistan is such a boring new now to Indian viewers. Media tends to create new threats which are only as true as the boogyman. As I said previously, the biggest tragedy for India was Nehru himself. That pathetic man chose all the wrong economic policies for India because of which India could not progress until Manmohan Singh became finance minister in the 90s and opened up India. India's economic backwarness has nothing to do with it's dealings with the Soviet Union. India's failure was because of it's socialist economic structure that Nehru decided to adopt. As far as the economy is concearned then India's greatest leader is undoubtedly Manmohan Singh. If only a man like him had been India's leader in 1947 India would now have been a first world nation. Indian leaders have shown over and over that they are not smart enough to deal with other world leaders. The US will only use India as a counter balance against China for it's own selfish interests. The US is the most imperialistic nation since the fall of the British empire. Russia and China alliance are the rising sun, they are nations which will be advanced economically and military in the near future. India would be smart to join them.

Hubert Harrison's reply represents all the people's who were dominated by the western empires lead by the British. In today's terms it perfectly represents western powers lead by the US.

Which is why people say Nehru is the reason why India got beat in 1962. When the British left India in 1947, they left India with a modern army which was amongst the best trained armies in the world. But Nehru had an anti army stance. He made cuts after cuts to the army which made the army only more inefficient. China on the other hand was spending more and more money on their army. So in 1962 when a strong large and efficient Chinese army faced a under equipped, under funded Indian army the result was not surprising. Only after 1962 did India realized it's mistake and began investing in the army and the results show how well India performed in the 1965 war against Pakistan. If Nehru was not PM of India, it is very likely that today India would have been a first world nation. Taking advantage of an opportunity when it presents itself is a quality Sikh leaders need to realize. Much of the world including the Muslim world is now looking towards China. They realize China will be unstoppable and Sikhs leaders need to take advantage of this. SGPC should send religious delegations to China to build a solid relationship since SGPC is considered a representative of the Panth. Not really, if China wanted to take over Arunanchal and other parts of India they would very well have done so in 1962 when they had India at their mercy. They use Arunanchal (and other parts of India) more of a scare tactic to keep India on her toes so India would be on the defensive instead of the offensive and claim territory lost to China in the 1962 war. It is a tactical move on China's part. Plus they do this because of India's open support of the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan independence movement. From China's perspective it is a counter measure to India's moves that they see as threatening to Chinese territory. No my friend, trusting USA would be the worst move India can make. Friendship with USA is often as deadly as hostility from the USA. You can never trust the US. The US is like the former British empire. Just as the Sikhs trusted the British by signing treaties of friendship with the British but ended up being taken over by their former "friend", same way friendship with the US will result in India being controlled by the US. If India is smart they will rather choose Russia and China over the US.

Not according to the Buddah Dal Gutka which lists 5 Kakkars.

Well, as far as Communist China is concerned it is a threat to India. But from China's perspective, India is no angel. India's open support for the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan freedom movement is a direct challenge to Chinese territorial integrity. The reason why India got it's ass kicked in the 62 war is all because of Nehru. He was the worst thing to have happened to India. As far as Sikhs are concearned I think Sikh leaders should develop good relations with China. China is a future world leader which will even surpass the US-Euro world domination. In fact, India should also realize this and develop friendly relations with China instead of trying to complete with it. The US does not want China and India to have good relations. These Anglo Saxons are smart and still playing their divide and rule game. They are trying to use India as a counter balance to a rising China. Russia knows what the west is doing, that is why Russia is trying to promote India Chinese friendship by creating and promoting BRIC in opposition to US-Euro economic bloc. Russia on their part is even trying to counter NATO by creating and promoting the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO). Russia is trying it's best to bring India into the SCO but India trying not to make the US feel threatened is not joining, while Pakistan knowing the benefits of the SCO is trying it's best to join but the SCO does not want Pakistan that much since they know Pakistan is going to be more of a liability than an asset.

Sikh leaders in America still have a lot of work to do to inform Americans that Sikhs are a distinct group.

interesting video

This reminds me of this story. A few years ago, my family knew this one educated Kesadhari NRI boy. My mother wanted one of her relative's girl to marry him from India since the boy was a very good boy. My mother told the parents of the girl in India about the boy and the parents liked the proposal. Then when parents asked the girl, she refused saying she will only marry a clean shaven NRI boy. The proposal was dropped. So the rejected Kesadhari boy did go to India and married another girl. Our relative's girl also found a Rishtaa with a clean shaven NRI boy who drives a truck with no education background. When the girl came to Canada she began to have all these restriction imposed on her. All of a sudden she was not allowed to communicate with her relatives in Canada or even her parents in India. While the girl who married to educated Kesadhari NRI boy is living the good happy life with no restrictions. I'm not saying that clean shaven are bad. Plenty are good, they are no different from kesadhari boys, it is just Sikh girls who don't see it that way. But he moral of the story is that Sikh girls are one of the dumbest species out there. No offense to Sikh girl members of this forum. I have seen Kesadhari boys having no problem attracting the attention of Hindu and Muslim women, but Sikh girls seem to avoid kesadhari boys like they are not even Sikhs themselves. Sikh girls suffer from the worst inferiority complex ever! I would say that since child hood, most of my friends have eventually cut their hair. The reason they give is that they are cutting it because Sikh girls like Sikh guys who are monaas. It is one thing to have Sikh religion decline because of outsiders, but this declining trend of Kesadhari boy is mainly because of Sikh girls. That is mainly why Sikh boys of marriageable age are mostly all monaas. Sikh girls have done the most disservice to Sikh faith in my opinion.

all the khatri arora Sikhs i have met are good Sikhs. They do a lot of seva in the Gurdwaras. Are you talking about Hindu khatri/aroras?

is Sheykh Abdul Kerim al-Kibrisi a Nakshbandi sufi? and is he a student of Shiekh Nazim?

The best way to counter Islam or any other religion is to have plenty of knowledge about your own religion. That way they will not be able to convert you or any other Sikh. Sikhs are not out to convert anyone, but if Sikhs start a movement of conversion in the future, the Muslims will be the hardest ones to convert for a number of reasons. Firstly, a Muslim who leaves Islam will be shunned by the family and is also condemned to death. Secondly, Muslims are usually more informed about their religion that the average non Muslim is about his religion and also takes great pride in Islam. I think that if Sikhs start to do Parchar to non Sikhs, the Hindus of India will be the easiest and most receptive to Sikhi.

Sheikh Faiz sort of looks like wolverine from x-men

Known-well known BTW, this is a great thread.

This forum is called Sikh awareness where we are trying to primarily learn about Sikhi. But the last month this forum has turned into Islam awareness.

Peer Buddhu Shah Jee was not Shia. He was a Sufi Saint. As Amardeep Jee mentioned, Imam Ali did not sacrifice his son. His sons died long after the death of Imam Ali.

The thing with the war between Islamic imperialists and western imperialists is that none of them follow the proper conduct of war. For us we think it is wrong to kill an unarmed person because our Dharm teaches us that. But Americans pick and choose which rules they want to follow of the Geneva convention. Same thing with the Muslims. They will not show mercy to an unarmed combatant either especially if the combatants happens to be non-Muslims. Like I said earlier this war is a war between two evils.

Wow, great seva. This is something that I was looking for. Also do you have the teeka by Udasi sadhu Anandghanas? It would be interesting to read that and compare a puraatan Udhasi viakhya of Japjee Sahib.

This report seems more like a conspiracy theory. Zawahiri had no reason to kill Bin Laden. In fact, Al Qaida as an organization is almost finished as it is. All of it's members are on the run or hiding rather then planning terrorist attacks. Rather then Al Qaida of Osama, groups that owe allegiance to AL Qaida or groups which are using the Al Qaida brand name all over the world are more dangerous then the original Al Qaida itself of Bin Laden and Zawahiri. Now that Osama Bin Laden is dead, what are the 150,000 NATO forces still doing in Afghanistan considering the fact that they were there to find Osama dead or alive. Now that the purpose of their invasion has been fulfilled they need to leave Afghanistan alone and focus their combined resources on what really matters "the economy".