Mithar

KDSingh, if all writers of Guru Granth Sahib had same avasthaa and soch, then all stand by lines such as Hindu Anna Turku Kaana, Doha Te Gyaani Siyaana.

But you are right that he is probably the only one who surely didn't meet Guru Nanak Ji.

Mithar, you are right, quite a few Taksalis have said this. Any more information from the Kathas?

From what I remember from the Katha, Sant Gurbanchan Singh Jee Bhindrwanwalay said that many Bhagats had met Guru Nanak Dev Jee at Ayodhya where they became his Sikhs. He also said that this was mentioned by Giani Giani Singh. And when I checked my copy of Giani Gian Singh's Twareek Guru Khalsa, Giani Jee really did menion this.

Thanks Maha Singh! I downloaded the links. I've got a few dictionaries already but really found the 'fuzzy' search function of the online Patiala University dictionary handy for colloquialisms and finding the meanings of variantly spelled words.

Mithar, where can I download these from?

For the Darpan:

http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/darpan2/darpan_pdf.html

For Farid Koti Teeka:

http://www.ik13.org/PDFS/Fridkot_Wala_Teeka.pdf

Maha Singh has shown the link towards Mahan Kosh PDF. These are files we should all download and have saved.

I remember reading somewhere that the Baba Farid whose Bani is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee was Farid Sani a contemporary of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee and who was also on the Gadhi of Baba Farid who was born 200-300 years earlier then Guru Nanak Dev Jee.

Prof Sahib Singh's Darpan Skeek is available in PDF. So is Fareed Koti Teeka. No Sikh's laptop/computer should be without these.

Prof Sahib Singh's Darpan Skeek is available in PDF. So is Fareed Koti Teeka. No Sikh's laptop/computer should be without these.

This is very interesting. I remember listening to the Katha of Sant Gurbachan Singh Jee Bhindranwalay where Sant Jee mentions that all the Bhagats met Guru Nanak Dev Jee while they were on earth and even became his Sikhs.

One moment you say "we need to tell our people 'wtf!' about how they go on about stuff like this", then when someone does, you come out with the above crap.

Well done.

True. The caste problem will only go if we discuss it. From such discussions, awareness spreads and possible solutions also arise.

Sachkhand doesn't appear to be a physical place. I don't claim to understand the khands right now, but this seems excluded.

If Sikhs accept that living beings can merge back with the divine (achieve sachkhand) whilst in an earthly existence (a jivan mukht) then how does it become some spatial-temporal residential zone of Waheguru? It doesn't correspond to the Semitic concept of heaven where God sits.

Also Jaap Sahib describes God as ਅਧਾਮੰ , ਨ੍ਰਿਦੇਸੇ , ਨ੍ਰਿਧਾਮੇ , ਅਜਾਹ clearly emphasising the point.

I remember long ago reading on the Tapoban forum a debate between Kulbir Singh and J Singh about what "merging" with Vaheguru means in Sikhi. That was an epic debate. It was a debate between whether or not Sikhi subscribes to Advaita Vedant or not.

Prof Sahib Singh and Sikh missionary collage have interpreted the Khands as being an "avastha". Giani Harbans Singh, Joginder Singh Talwara, Bhai Randhir Singh Jee have interpreted it as spiritual realms instead of avastha.

haha, that's so cool.

check out this one with the chinese man speaking fluent Punjabi.

This should put all the NRIs to shame who have forgotten or cannot speak Punjabi.

thanks for the link. The secrets of meditation are still being examined and discovered by the west. More such documentaries should be made.

Where is the first mention of Akal Takht having a Jathedar? Or Akaali Baba Phoola Singh being a Jathedar of Akaal Takht Sahib.

Dilgeer in some article claimed that Bhai Mani Singh was not a Jathedaar. He quotes Bhangu, who called Mani Singh 'pujarion se vadaa pujari' (chief amongst priests)

If there is no early reference, will it be safe to assume that Jathedari in Akaal Takth is a new phenomen and we only had 'mukh sevadaars' earlier?

Dilgeer has turned into a heretic Kala Afghanist and now revises history to suit the Kala Afghanist agenda. He even puts doubts on the Panja Sahib Sakhi of Guru Nanak Dev Jee as being false.

I have seen many south Indian dubbed movies,don't found much difference though.Also we should remember that South India is not something we should in one sentence,Telugu are different from Tamilians,Kannads are different from malayali.Just check the thread I posted about voilence faced by elders Bangalore is No.1 with 40% while Chennai is last with 2% .They are too different from each other

These are fake masala polls ,don't trust them.My brother is in IT industry and I asked him and he said there is no situation is like this ,the situation is only bad among rich Indians which roam with their personal cars at the age of 18-20

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Around 15% of young men and 4% young women interviewed admitted to having pre-marital sex.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2010-02-21/india/28116578_1_young-women-age-youth

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4% must be the national average which includes girls from the villages who maintain virginity till marriage. It is no secret in India that most city girls are very loose in character. That is one of the main reasons why when NRI men go to India for marriage, they always prefer to marry girls from the village who are not only virgin but also traditional as opposed to the city girls who mostly have a boy friend before marriage, and having a boy friend usually means sexual activity will also be involved.

I'm not saying all city girls are like this. You live in Delhi and you are probably right about Delhi girls, but the city girls in Punjab have a very loose moral character. City girls in Punjab mostly have boy friends, which is why village girls are always preferred amongst NRIs for marriage.

I don't have measuring tape with me so I cannot always check whether it is upto waist or not lol but mid back is quite common

Anyway I live in area where there is very small population of Sikhs yet I always see sikh girls with long braid and kara on their hand more often than turbaned sikhs

hair till mid back is not long hair. What you consider "long hair"(mid back) is what I meant by "short hair". Even Gorees in Canada and America mostly have hair till mid back. And it is from looking at western women that Indian women began trimming hair to mid back. Long hair from traditional Indian perspective is to the waist.

I have to disagree with it.South Indians are are equal if not more westernised than North Indians.The sari they show is only at the time of marriage or traditional function O/W they too show westernised women.One South Indian heroine created havoc when she openly stated that men now should not expect their wives to be virgin

Take a look at South Indian movies that are dubbed in Hindi. The heroin always (or mostly) wears a Sari. The only time she wear modern clothing(pants/skirts) is during a song with the hero. As for virginity is concearned, according to a poll I read not too long ago, 3 in 4 women from the cities are no longer even virgin during marriage. Western culture is really destroying the India I knew once.

majority of Sikh girls from cities still keep their long but slightly trim it.As far shortening of hair is concerned ,One factor is you mentioned is behenji but the other factor is that most women are now working and they found maintaining long hair difficult as mostly they just roam with untied hair.Even in job market a westernised girl is much more demanded than a traditional one

Indians still love long untied hair on women that's why all top heroines of bollywood Katrina,Aishwarya,Kareena,Deepika etc sport long hair

Hardly any bollywood heroine try to experiment her with short style even if she does she revert it back in few months.Nobody call these heroines behenji

When I say long hair I mean long hair like up to the waist as Indian women had up until the late 90s. Remember that famous TV commercial((Dabur Amla Hair Oil) of Jayapradha with her long hair.

Short hair for me does not mean a boy cut. Compared to how Indian women were until the 90s, today's Indian women has very short hair. Just look at any of the Indian TV serials, all the young women always have short hair. None have hair to the waist. They all try to emulate white/western women.

One thing about South Indian movies surprised me that why they hardly take Heroines Which look like an average south Indian Girl.There heroines were mainly from North India,South Indian brahmin families or from fair skinned communitties of South India.none of them even closely look like an average South Indian woman.

I can understand North Indians Like fair skin as both fair and dark existed here ,but in south more than 95% people are dark yet they want to show their men that their future wife could be a fair skinned

Almost half of the South heroins are actually north Indian, many even being Punjabans. But one thing is, the South Indian concept of beauty is different from North Indian concept of beauty. In South India, their heroins are shown as very traditional type sari wearing women while North Indian/bollywood heroins have become very modern/liberal types similar to white women from the west who would never wear a suit/sari.

I think north Indian women have grown an inferiority complex since the last 20 years. They try to pretend they are white/western women. That is why it is not uncommon to see north Indian women call girls who wear Punjabi suits as "Bahanji". Up until the late 90s, most north Indian Hindu women had long hair and considered it a mark of beauty, but now you will rarely find Hindu women from the cities with long hair as they consider it as something that a "Bahanji" would do. Even Sikh girls from the cities are mostly hair cutters themselves.

In a way, it is sad and disheartening to see traditional Indian culture being swept away by western/American culture like this.

The reason I read western academic books on Sikhism is mainly due to the methodology used in these books. They are much more adequate and analytical than the few books i've read by Ganda Singh and Piara Singh Padam.

So you like the orientalist methods of interpreting Sikh history? Trilochan Singh pretty much destroyed much of the orientalist Mcloadian school in his book.

http://www.globalsikhstudies.net/pdf/Ernest_Trumpp.pdf

Mcloedian books may be good for non Sikhs who want to find out about Sikh history from the point of view of the orientalist mindset. But for a Sikh to say they prefer the orientalist Mcloedian books is really disheartening bro.

This movie was good. In south India, the heroes are mostly always men with a mustache and some facial hair and a little dark in colour, while the villain is always clean shaven and fair complexioned. Why can't Punjabis emulate the same thing in Punjabi movies? show the hero as being a handsome sardar(the ideal Punjabi Gabroo Jawan).

To be frank I don't mind if they do clamp down on Non sikhs.In non sikhs dominated area's many people just take advantage of langar and start treating Gurdwara's as their eating joints without having any respect for Sikhism or Sikhs

I understand what you are saying. But, we need to realize the fact that a Gurdwara is "Guru dha Ghar" (house of the Guru). If a Sikh comes to the Guru's house, he is a devotee. But if a non-Sikh comes to the Gurdwara he is a guest of the Guru. And the guest/mehmaan of the Guru should be treated with all the respect from Sikhs that a guest deserves. I could be wrong, but this is the way I see it.

Bhagat Pooran Singh Jee of the Pingalwara is an example we should try to remember. He was born a Hindu. But as a young boy he went to the Mandir and noticed how he was always hungary and never received any hospitality from the Mandir or it's Pandit. Then when he went to the Gurdwara he was given respect by the Granthi and also given all to eat until his stomach was full. This incident inspired him to become a Sikh of the Guru. And look what a great Sikh he ended up becoming that Sikhs to this day remember him, in fact I would say he can easily be counted amongst the greatest Sikhs of the 20th century.

A non-Sikhs(no matter how rich or poor) should be given all the respect we can give them when he come to a Gurdwara. Who knows maybe that non Sikh might become another Bhagat Pooran Singh Jee.

ਉਲਥਾ

This means "translation", this is a real Punjabi word. Although I mostly see people using the word "tarjama" instead which I think is an Urdu word.

yea ..the exaggeration is done and then perhaps is done that way that it becomes a taboo to do the particular act.

i would equal it to addressing cow as mother, it should be that there must have been beef eating and then as the importance of the animal was high, some people who were in the religious authority must have declared that killing a cow is equal to killing yor mother.

That's a good analogy and yes it is similar to the example you gave.

In the British Indian army, the British enforced the Sikh soldiers to follow Sikh rehet maryadha. Any disobedience from the Sikh rehet meant the soldier would be punished by the British officers. This was also told to me by a Buzurg about 12 years ago who was in the Sikh regiment in his younger years during the British Raaj.

Sikh soldiers back then had very high moral and ethical values. These Sikh soldiers were very conservative Sikhs and would end up forming the backbone of the Sikh Panth during the British Raaj. Most of the members of the Singh Sabha movement, Akali Movement, Babbar Akali movement, and even the Gadhar movement were former soldiers. The first thing the Indian government did during the so called independence in 1947 was to secularize the Indian army. Since 1947 the Sikh officers have become the most secular, liberal minded section of Sikh society. Almost all their daughters have Hindu sounding names and even marry Hindu men instead of Sikh men.

So I'm not surprised seeing the low moral and ethical values of post 1947 Sikh soldiers of the Indian army.

there have been so many sex-selective abortions in the past three decades that 163 million girls, who by biological averages should have been born, are missing from the world. Moral horror aside, this is likely to be of very large consequence.

This is so shocking to read. 163 million is no small figure. This figure is larger than the population of most countries. I bet a couple of million of those "missing"(more like murdered!) girls must be from amongst the Sikhs alone. Religiously minded Sikhs should take sum stiff action in India against abortion clinics, because this is murder of Sikh and non Sikh daughters.

We have so many Sikh groups getting militant against Hindus, Muslims, Christian missionaries, RSS, Gurudoms, but abortion clinics are doing more damage then all those enemies of the Panth put together and we don't know it! The mass extermination of Sikh and non Sikh girls is one of the biggest tragedies of our history and abortion clinics need to be stopped.

I think what the Dhadhi meant was that kesh was a thing of honour for a Sikh. When Muslims would attempt to cut the hair of a Sikh it meant the Sikh had to die to protect his honour(kesh) at any cost similar to a Ghairatmand Sikh fighting to protect his daughter being raped by outsiders. But if a Sikh were to cut his own kesh it is like he is dishonouring his own self akin to like raping his own daughter.

We may not understand this type of mentality anymore, but this is how Sikhs would think a few generations ago where hair cutting was unknown amongst the Sikhs. Even the least religiously observant Sikh would still be a Keshadhari. My Nanke for example were hardcore communist minded people who actually made fun of religious minded Sikhs. But even they were keshadharis and would not allow their children to cut kesh. This is how things were during the time of my grandfather's (Nana Jee) generation. After that it started to change. Hair cutting became acceptable amongst Sikhs in part due to NRI influences and also secularization of the independent India.

While on this topic, in India where can one get Sri Dasam Granth in 2 part Sainchis?

Thanks for that.

I was wondering, did it use familiar Panjabi words in ways you never encountered before? I think this guys writes the story in English first then translates it.

It seems like it is a translation or maybe inspired by another story. Either way, this is good stuff. Firstly, I have never encountered anyone writing science fiction in Punjabi. Writers like him should expand on this and even write whole novels of science fiction in Punjabi and have it promoted. I just wish that some organization in Punjab could start a magazine on the subject of science written in Punjabi. It would be a great development for the language.

We should take inspiration from the Jews who managed to revive a dead language (Hebrew) after 2000 years and turn it into a language of the contemporary world. Today in Israel, science is taught in Hebrew! If they can do it to a dead language, then surely Sikhs can do it to a language which is still spoken and has official status in the state of Punjab spoken by millions through out the world.

This is pretty good. This type of stuff should be taught in the schools of Punjab. This can encourage Punjabi children to become more creative when writing Punjabi. The Punjabi language needs to be expanded so that even science and technological studies can be taught in the Punjabi language.

Since the times of Bhai Veer Singh Jee, the Punjabi language has not moved farward. Punjabi language needs a new Bhai Veer Singh Jee so that Punjabi bhasha can cover new ground.