Kaljug

Hmm.

I was actually trying to make a serious point. SE Asian women of our mothers' generation have a relatively high incidence of mental illness, especially if they came from India after their teenage years and especially if they do not speak English fluently. This is partly due to the experience of a clash of cultures, partly due to living a sheltered upbringing and not having achieved a degree of individuation and self-reliance, partly due to neglecting their own emotional and mental development, and to a small degree due to not getting out into nature and letting their skin absorb as much sunlight as they need.

Many women of that generation will end up in a doctor's surgery complaining of physical problems that are rooted in mental health issues, and some of them end up in the clutches of some witchdoctor baba because, due to a lack of basic psychology, they believe that someone is practising kala jadu on them.

From personal experience, I've met an auntie ji who began visiting some idiot pandit because she started having dreams of being attacked by a snake (she would have been better off visiting a Freudian analyst who would have explained the serpent symbolism in a few hours), another who had a psychotic break after intense mental turmoil due to her children leaving home (children who had been her only interest in life), and dozens more who had some sort of underlying mental condition they were trying to cure through paath or superstitions.

It's sad, because much of these problems could have been avoided had these auntie jis taken care of their own health and diet and had access to information on mental health and psychology.

See here for some information on health issues amnong the SE asian communities:

http://www.sawnet.org/health/

K.

Jaikaara:

Chandi di Var is supposed to be read at amritvela. If you recite it in the evening, then you need to recite it continuously until sunrise (as per Baba Harnam Singh Rampur Khere wale).

Also, whereas a Hindu might worship a geometrical shape made of interconnected triangles as representing Devi, for a Sikh any naked shastar represents Chandi (who in turn represents Akal Purakh's Shakti) and can be namaskared when reciting Chandi di Var.

Ghostface Killah:

Braham Kavach is a bir ras bani which is present in some birs of Sri Dasam Granth. The Nihangs still recite 32 times as per their maryada.


Whitegrass, Laadli Fauj:

Cool. Now all I need is the time to recite 21 Chandi di Vars. :-D

K.

The part about Shastar Puja is pretty cool also. It's especially cool since Sant ji is Nirmala-focused not a Nihang. For anyone who didn't listen to that part yet, Sant ji says that real shastar puja is cleaning and maintaining your shastar and learning how to use it. If you don't know how to use it, waving all the incense sticks in the world around your khanda will not help you one bit when you are forced to use it. It's a great reality check for those who confuse Shastar Puja with some empty ritual that will magically teach you to fight like you've got 8 arms and a tiger.

Fateh!

I think you're confusing mythological truths with recorded history - they are two separate things entirely. Gurbani does not propagate the reality of actual divinities running around and brawling with horned and pitchfork carring asuras, but that does not mean that mythologised history does not have a value of its own on a purely psychological and spiritual level.

You should read some of the work of the anthropologist and folklorist Joseph Campbell who wrote some brilliant books on the power of myth and the universal symbols that such myths contain. I found his books really useful in helping me understand the use of mythology in Gurbani in specific and religious scriptured in general.

You might even be able to find his 6 part series on this subject called The Power of Myth. There is some info on him on the Joseph Campbell Foundation website:

http://www.jcf.org/

Regards,
K.

A Cuban friend of mine once told me a story.

There was once a Cubano Catolico who so broke that he hadn't eaten any food for days. So, like a good Catholic, he got down on his knees and prayed: "Dios mio, I haven't had a straight meal for days. I'm starving, please answer my prayers and send me some good food and I'll go the Church next Sunday and light a candle for you in thanksgiving."

After the first day, the Cubano is getting pains in his abdomen because he still hasn't received anything. Again, he gets down on his knees, and this time with more passion and desperation, he prays and prays with tears in his eyes. "Eh Dios, I know that I haven't been the best Catholic that I could be, but I still love you. You are my mother and father, please provide for me.

It's approaching midnight on the second day and there has still been no response from Our Father in Heaven.

On the third day, too weak to stay on his knees and too dehydrates to weep, the man lies prostrate on the ground and mumbles his prayers continuously for the whole day. "Dios mio, I have no one but you. Provide me for me and my children as you provided for St Joseph to care for the infant Jesus." He goes on and on like this until early on Sunday morning.

On Sunday morning, at amritvela, the Devil appears in a puff of smoke, laughing at the man's misfortune. Says the Prince of Darkness, "You fool, you see that God does not answer your prayers because I am the real god of this world. Indeed, I am the sargun form of the Almighty who has come in answer to your prayers. Eat this food which I provide for you, and a light a candle for the one who has truly answered your prayers."

At this, a veritable feast with smoked jutia, chicharones, ropa vieja, and all the arroz the man can eat appears as if by jadu. The man takes one look at the food and eats his fill with the Devil laughing uproariously above him.

Come time for Sunday mass, the Cubano goes straight to church and lights a candle in thanksgiving, praying: "Dios mio, thank you for answering my prayer and sending your servant, the Devil, to bring me the food I asked you for. I light this candle for you, may it be a pleasing offering to you."

The point is that, you may have personal experiences of devatay, pirs, sheikhs, or whatever, but one shouldn't allow them to distract you from the path of worship of the Highest.

Yes, quote some Gurbani to make you feel better about your own ridiculous religious confusion.

There is one Satguru in this Kal Yuga, and it ain't your "devi" with the hugging fetish.

I just want you to know that I find the bilge you spew and mistake for real learning wonderfully entertaining. It is so clear that your one paltry "mystical" experience has unhinged your mind to such a degree that, years later, you are still repeating the same claptrap over and over again like a broken record in a garbled tongue, spun by a madman.

You are in the same position that you were years ago, nothing has changed in your avastha and you are still completely ruled by your own haumai. Tell me, in the time that you were away, have you learned Gurmukhi - or even Sanskrit - or are you still too egotistical and lazy to learn?

I often use you as an example of the dangers of having a basic and simple "spiritual visions" that any fool can have with a little practice and not being able to let them go to experience a deeper truth.

Ten years from now, you will be exactly the same person you are now, writing the same longwinded, rambling, meaningless posts.

K.

That foot juice she's been drinking from her gooroo must be some seriously potent stuff. Kind of like watching a kid on acid and speed trying to explain why she thinks superman is really, really cool and much better than spiderman.

A pox upon the house of whoever invited her back.

K.

If you have sharda, it works fine. If you are not meant to succeed in any of these sadhanas, then you will not be able to complete them. It is worth attempting them just to experience how real the power of maya in Kaljug is even if maya does not allow you to get the phal of these bania.

K.

Fateh!

A question that Dalsingh posed in a previous thread about Dasam Granth and the existence of Devatas got me wondering what Gurbani means when it talks about yugas.

If the devatas are mythological gods, does this neccesarily imply that a yuga is an era of mythological time? If so, what does Gurbani mean when it says that Satguru was present though all the 4 yugas?

If the yugas are actual measures of time, when did they begin and when did they end? If they refer to actual history, does this imply then that the devatas who were worshipped in those yugas, were actual beings? If so, where is the historical evidence for the existence of these devatas and the demonic asuras that they fought?

What do you think?

Regards,
K.

Here's the full shabad (in English translation for brevity):

BHAIRAO, ASHTAPADEES, FIRST MEHL, SECOND HOUSE:

ONE UNIVERSAL CREATOR GOD. BY THE GRACE OF THE TRUE GURU:

The Lord is in the soul, and the soul is in the Lord. This is realized through the Guru's Teachings. The Ambrosial Word of the Guru's Bani is realized through the Word of the Shabad. Sorrow is dispelled, and egotism is eliminated. || 1 || O Nanak, the disease of egotism is so very deadly. Wherever I look, I see the pain of the same disease. The Primal Lord Himself bestows the Shabad of His Word. || 1 || Pause || When the Appraiser Himself appraises the mortal, then he is not tested again. Those who are blessed with His Grace meet with the Guru. They alone are true, who are pleasing to God. || 2 || Air, water and fire are diseased; the world with its enjoyments is diseased. Mother, father, Maya and the body are diseased; those united with their relatives are diseased. || 3 || Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are diseased; the whole world is diseased. Those who remember the Lord's Feet and contemplate the Word of the Guru's Shabad are liberated. || 4 || The seven seas are diseased, along with the rivers; the continents and the nether regions of the underworlds are full of disease. The people of the Lord dwell in Truth and peace; He blesses them with His Grace everywhere. || 5 || The six Shaastras are diseased, as are the many who follow the different religious orders. What can the poor Vedas and Bibles do? People do not understand the One and Only Lord. || 6 || Eating sweet treats, the mortal is filled with disease; he finds no peace at all. Forgetting the Naam, the Name of the Lord, they walk on other paths, and at the very last moment, they regret and repent. || 7 || Wandering around at sacred shrines of pilgrimage, the mortal is not cured of his disease. Reading scripture, he gets involved in useless arguments. The disease of duality is so very deadly; it causes dependence on Maya. || 8 || One who becomes Gurmukh and praises the True Shabad with the True Lord in his mind is cured of his disease.

The shabad is about the supremacy of Naam and the pains of egotism, not about Shiva. If your inference is that this shabad tells us about Shiva's badness, what about the similar panktis about air, water, fire, mother, father? Do you think that all of these are inherently bad or is the shabad to be as a interpreted as a whole?



Here's the whole shabad in English translation:

RAAG GOND, THE WORD OF NAAM DAYV JEE, SECOND HOUSE:

ONE UNIVERSAL CREATOR GOD. BY THE GRACE OF THE TRUE GURU:

Chanting the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, all doubts are dispelled. Chanting the Name of the Lord is the highest religion. Chanting the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, erases social classes and ancestral pedigrees. The Lord is the walking stick of the blind. || 1 || I bow to the Lord, I humbly bow to the Lord. Chanting the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, you will not be tormented by the Messenger of Death. || 1 || Pause || The Lord took the life of Harnaakhash, and gave Ajaamal a place in heaven. Teaching a parrot to speak the Lord's Name, Ganika the prostitute was saved. That Lord is the light of my eyes. || 2 || Chanting the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, Pootna was saved, even though she was a deceitful child-killer. Contemplating the Lord, Dropadi was saved. Gautam's wife, turned to stone, was saved. || 3 || The Lord, who killed Kaysee and Kans, gave the gift of life to Kali. Prays Naam Dayv, such is my Lord; meditating on Him, fear and suffering are dispelled. || 4 || 1 || 5 || GOND: One who chases after the god Bhairau, evil spirits and the goddess of smallpox, is riding on a donkey, kicking up the dust. || 1 || I take only the Name of the One Lord. I have given away all other gods in exchange for Him. || 1 || Pause || That man who chants "Shiva, Shiva", and meditates on him, is riding on a bull, shaking a tambourine. || 2 || One who worships the Great Goddess Maya will be reincarnated as a woman, and not a man. || 3 || You are called the Primal Goddess. At the time of liberation, where will you hide then? || 4 || Follow the Guru's Teachings, and hold tight to the Lord's Name, O friend. Thus prays Naam Dayv, and so says the Gita as well. || 5 || 2 || 6 || BILAAVAL GOND: Today, Naam Dayv saw the Lord, and so I will instruct the ignorant. || Pause || O Pandit, O religious scholar, your Gayatri was grazing in the fields. Taking a stick, the farmer broke its leg, and now it walks with a limp. || 1 || O Pandit, I saw your great god Shiva, riding along on a white bull. In the merchant's house, a banquet was prepared for him - he killed the merchant's son. || 2 || O Pandit, I saw your Raam Chand coming too; he lost his wife, fighting a war against Raawan. || 3 || The Hindu is sightless; the Muslim has only one eye. The spiritual teacher is wiser than both of them. The Hindu worships at the temple, the Muslim at the mosque. Naam Dayv serves that Lord, who is not limited to either the temple or the mosque. || 4 || 3 || 7 ||

The message of the shabad is again about the superiority of Naam and worship of Nirguna Brahman.



There isn't much point in posting single panktis from a shabad to prove your point. Last time I checked, Shiva had not chak Amrit, so it's pretty stupid to accuse him of commiting a kurehit.

P.S. Since I have already been accused of being a Satanist for clarifying Aleister Crowley's writings, so let me take this opportunity to say that I am not a Shaivite, I do not smoke weed, and I do not ride to work on a white bull. However, I am almost certain this statement will not prevent some of the nutjobs here of accusing me of all these things and of being an agent for the RSS.

Regards,
K.

Veer ji, I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying. I don't suggest abandoning our historical granths, I merely propose putting them all side by side and determining where they agree and disagree with each other, and then comparing recorded history with the bachans of our Gurus as recorded in Gurbani.

It's a fact that the earlist historical source Sri Gur Sobha does not mention this havan of Chandi and, according to the views of many, such a ritual is not in accord with Gurbani. However, I am still all for attempting to understand why later Sikhs would have believed that this event actually took place.

The sentence of mine that you quote is my current personal belief based upon my understanding. It was not meant to somehow summarise your views.

I hope you continue to post often here, Singh.

K.

To be honest, I am beginning to wonder whether some Singhs like the author of Suraj Prakash Granth believed that, like the archetypal Warrior King of Indian religious tradition, Arjun, Dasmesh Pita did Pargat of Devi because it gives the Khalsa Panth a mythological and magical beginning and explains Sikh victory over insurmountable odds. However, I do like Pal 07's explanation.



Because Faujan naturally do puja of the "Goddess of War" by training for and engaging in war itself. That's why weapons are worshipped as being the real Goddess of War in Shastar Nam Mala and other Dasam Bania. Shastar Puja for Sikhs is more than just waving some incense sticks around a tulwar - without knowing how to use the weapon one is doing puja of, one is just performing idol worship.

K.

That's the legend.

....

Fateh!

So I had a closer read of Dasam Granth, and singh2 is right - there is no mention of Guru Gobind Singh that I can find referring to himself as Dusht Damun. The panktis about Dasmeh Pita's previous incarnation, during which Guru ji meditated on Hemkunt, van be found here:

http://www.sridasam.org/dasam?Action=Page&p=132

It seems like story of Guru Tegh Bahadur being the Rishi (Samaundh Rishi) who Devi came to for help and Guru Gobind Singh being the shakti, Dusht Daman, comes from a different source. There are various versions of the story related here:

http://sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Dusht_Daman...er_of_The_Evil)

So, does the sakhi which melds the story of Dusht Damun with Dasmesh Pita's previous form as related in Bachittar Natak only occur in Suraj Prakash as singh2 says? Is there another source for this story? Is the story accepted by any other puraatan samaparday apart from the Nihangs?

Regards,
K.

How does one obtain this ability? Is it simply a matter of building up the number of Jap Ji Sahibs one does daily? Do these sevadars jump right into doing 101 Jap Jis every day?

From personal experience of doing the 10 Jap Ji Sahibs per day for 40 days that Sant Jagjit Singh Harkhowale sometimes recommends, my concentration improved dramatically (nothing like you are describing, though) but swiftly dropped down to base level again when the 40 days were over and I went back to my usual routine.

K.

How does one obtain this ability? Is it simply a matter of building up the number of Jap Ji Sahibs one does daily? Do these sevadars jump right into doing 101 Jap Jis every day?

From personal experience of doing the 10 Jap Ji Sahibs per day for 40 days that Sant Jagjit Singh Harkhowale sometimes recommends, my concentration improved dramatically (nothing like you are describing, though) but swiftly dropped down to base level again when the 40 days were over and I went back to my usual routine.

K.

I'm guessing it was the obviously Muslim author who wrote the article that did that. However, the British media is in the habit of writing "Asians" when they clearly mean Muslims. I imagine they consider it more politically correct to smear the whole Asian community for the crimes and failings of Muslims and Islamic culture in the West.

K.

Fateh Jio!

I am Kaljug, and I shall be entertaining you for the next 432,000 years.

K.

To be honest, I am beginning to wonder whether some Singhs like the author of Suraj Prakash Granth believed that, like the archetypal Warrior King of Indian religious tradition, Arjun, Dasmesh Pita did Pargat of Devi because it gives the Khalsa Panth a mythological and magical beginning and explains Sikh victory over insurmountable odds. However, I do like Pal 07's explanation.



Because Faujan naturally do puja of the "Goddess of War" by training for and engaging in war itself. That's why weapons are worshipped as being the real Goddess of War in Shastar Nam Mala and other Dasam Bania. Shastar Puja for Sikhs is more than just waving some incense sticks around a tulwar - without knowing how to use the weapon one is doing puja of, one is just performing idol worship.

K.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

It's fine as a developmental tool and an aid to greater concentration.

There is a method of naam simran described in Sant Jagjit Singh Harkhowale's autobiography that involves meditation on 4 chakras for each of the 4 syllables of Waheguru gurmantra.

Sant Jagjit Singh however also says that meditation on chakras is not stable as the only true reality is Nirankar.

Some who meditate on ajna chakra find that it heightens their spiritual vision, but it can also make one a little "spacey" and lose touch with the material world; thus they recommend spending as much time meditating on the navel chakra, as this tends to ground ones spirituality in the material world. Apparently, it's kind of difficult to concentrate on work and chores if one is constantly seeing gods and angels. ;-)

K.

Fateh!

- Mahakaal in Dasam Granth is the same as Ram, Narayan, Akal Purakh, etc etc in Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Overwhelming evidence provided by singh2 is too numerous to summarise.

The assenting opinions:
- Mahakaal cannot be God because he has said nothing about Mangoes. (Balbir Singh)
- Mahakaal cannot be God because I cannot think in anything but literal terms. (Kala Afghana ki Fauj)
- Dasam Granth cannot be Guru Gobind Singh Ji's writings because it has naughty words in it that give me a funny feeling in my lower tummy that I don't understand. (Kala Afghana ki Fauj)
- Mahakaal cannot be God but I am too tired to provide evidence so you just have to take my word for it until I make my TV appearance. (Kala Afghana ki Fauj),

Hope that helps.

Regards,
K.

The Khalsa Fauj:





So, saying a granth has a head and toes means it's not a book? Or is it a figure of speech? It's clear that you have no idea how similes, metaphors, analogies, allusions and figurative speech work, despite your claims that you do. This is not a cheap shot, it's actually an illustration of your inability to think in any but literal terms.

When Maradona claimed that it was the Hand of God that enabled him to score the winning goal in the World Cup, he wasn't talking about a big hand coming out of the sky and tapping the ball into the net.




Your translation of these two terms is incorrect and has no basis in historical etymology.



See above. Now you are just being silly and dramatic.




Aatman does not die according to Gurbani.



Have you never heard of cold burns? It's amusing that you call people illiterate when it's completely evident from your post that your reading comprehension is non-existent. Perhaps if you spent some time reading fiction and poetry instead of posting nonsensical statements in every thread, you might be able to understand these things.

Regards,
K.

Look up metaphor, analogy, and simile in a dictionary or take a course in basic literary criticism, because these are used many times in bani.



Does a granth have a head and toes, then?

Regards,
K.

Khalsa Fauj:




Etymology not Hindu Mat. You reinvent the meanings of words for your own purposes and then have the gall to whine about no one understanding you?



There was no question, you were just making up completely idiotic meanings for expressions you clearly do not understand. It's clear to every single person, except you, reading these threads that the only one dodging questions and changing subjects every 2nd post is you.



Absolute rubbish. Atman does not die because one is unaware of it, no more than the moon ceases to exist when the sun comes out.



Blah blah blah.

Let me know when you and your fellow missionary nincompoops are on Jerry Springer and I'll be sure to tune in.

K.

A Cuban friend of mine once told me a story.

There was once a Cubano Catolico who so broke that he hadn't eaten any food for days. So, like a good Catholic, he got down on his knees and prayed: "Dios mio, I haven't had a straight meal for days. I'm starving, please answer my prayers and send me some good food and I'll go the Church next Sunday and light a candle for you in thanksgiving."

After the first day, the Cubano is getting pains in his abdomen because he still hasn't received anything. Again, he gets down on his knees, and this time with more passion and desperation, he prays and prays with tears in his eyes. "Eh Dios, I know that I haven't been the best Catholic that I could be, but I still love you. You are my mother and father, please provide for me.

It's approaching midnight on the second day and there has still been no response from Our Father in Heaven.

On the third day, too weak to stay on his knees and too dehydrates to weep, the man lies prostrate on the ground and mumbles his prayers continuously for the whole day. "Dios mio, I have no one but you. Provide me for me and my children as you provided for St Joseph to care for the infant Jesus." He goes on and on like this until early on Sunday morning.

On Sunday morning, at amritvela, the Devil appears in a puff of smoke, laughing at the man's misfortune. Says the Prince of Darkness, "You fool, you see that God does not answer your prayers because I am the real god of this world. Indeed, I am the sargun form of the Almighty who has come in answer to your prayers. Eat this food which I provide for you, and a light a candle for the one who has truly answered your prayers."

At this, a veritable feast with smoked jutia, chicharones, ropa vieja, and all the arroz the man can eat appears as if by jadu. The man takes one look at the food and eats his fill with the Devil laughing uproariously above him.

Come time for Sunday mass, the Cubano goes straight to church and lights a candle in thanksgiving, praying: "Dios mio, thank you for answering my prayer and sending your servant, the Devil, to bring me the food I asked you for. I light this candle for you, may it be a pleasing offering to you."

The point is that, you may have personal experiences of devatay, pirs, sheikhs, or whatever, but one shouldn't allow them to distract you from the path of worship of the Highest.

Yes, quote some Gurbani to make you feel better about your own ridiculous religious confusion.

There is one Satguru in this Kal Yuga, and it ain't your "devi" with the hugging fetish.

I just want you to know that I find the bilge you spew and mistake for real learning wonderfully entertaining. It is so clear that your one paltry "mystical" experience has unhinged your mind to such a degree that, years later, you are still repeating the same claptrap over and over again like a broken record in a garbled tongue, spun by a madman.

You are in the same position that you were years ago, nothing has changed in your avastha and you are still completely ruled by your own haumai. Tell me, in the time that you were away, have you learned Gurmukhi - or even Sanskrit - or are you still too egotistical and lazy to learn?

I often use you as an example of the dangers of having a basic and simple "spiritual visions" that any fool can have with a little practice and not being able to let them go to experience a deeper truth.

Ten years from now, you will be exactly the same person you are now, writing the same longwinded, rambling, meaningless posts.

K.