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ekmusafir_ajnabi

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    ekmusafir_ajnabi
  1. Who do you go and confront?. These people do not like the truth. They tell you to either to comply with their views or shut up and if you do not then they cancel your membership. You will not find a single member on the admin team correcting the others blunders. Instead they will show their appreciation for the trash spewed. There are serious anti-sikhism views held by the admin team that they keep propagating. Jarnail Singh contradicts his own statements previously made and yet no from the admin team raises an eyebrow but they rush to appreciate him. I did confront these people in the past. One of the members on the admin team gave me a friendly suggestion. That was not to challenge them and accept that their farts were smelling tastier. I declined his offer and thus my membership was cancelled. Jarnail Singh does so many farts that the admin team appreciates it as Giaan Da Golla. But O' Boy they are so mistaken. They are not only digging spiritual graves for themselves but also for the whole membership. Randip Singh tells people it is ok to eat meat and attend the Gurudwara regurgitating it because the body is also a piece of meat hence there is no difference. He threatens people to shut up or they will be removed from membership. So dalsingh101 ji what is the point of banging ones head against the wall. Is the admin team blind to see what was written in the statement by a Giani of the forum somewhat incorrectly gives a wrong meaning. Just because a Giani has said that it must be true. Sikh Philosophy Network has the making of another Cult and should be classed as an anti-sikh site/forum. dalsingh101 ji your are their esteemed member why don't you confront them. Lets get one thing clear, I am not doing this to get their membership. NO THANKS.
  2. The following is a statement by a senior member of Sikh Philosophy Network and later acknowledged by the Admin. Gyani Jarnail Singh - "SPNADMIN has got thumb on the right spot....there will be NO REST until the Kirpan...the Dastaar...and thus SIKHI...is eliminated for GOOD." The following member appreciates Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji for the above message. spnadmin Brothers! What do you make out of this statement?
  3. SOME ARTICLES OF THE QURAN ARE HARMFUL-DELHI MAGISTRATE Z.S. LOHAT by Sarita Nair on Tuesday, 15 March 2011 at 11:23 SOME ARTICLES OF THE QURAN ARE HARMFUL,TEACH HATRED AND CREATE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN MOHAMMEDANS AND OTHER COMMUNITIES – DELHI MAGISTRATE Z.S. LOHAT I am enclosing herewith a copy of a very important Judgment dated July 31, 1986, delivered by Z.S. Lohat, Metropolitan Magistrate, New Delhi along with English translation of 24 Articles of Quran which promote enmity, ill-will, hatred, deception, fraud, strife, robbery and murder. In his judgment, Hon. Magistrate pronounced as under: “With due regard to the holy book of ‘Quran’, a close perusal of the ‘Aytats (articles) shows that the same are harmful and teach hatred and are likely to create differences between Mohammedans on one hand and the remaining communities on the other.” Please keep them handy and show them to anyone who argues that “Islam is the Religion of Peace”. Narain Kataria ___________________________________________ HISTORY OF THE CASE I In July 1986, a significant judgement on some articles of the Quran was pronounced by Z.S. Lohat, metropolitan magistrate of Delhi . As most of these articles figure in the Calcutta (Kolkata) Quran Petition of Chandmal Chopra, we thought it relevant to reproduce the pamphlet in which the articles were cited. Operative portion of the judgement is also being reproduced in order to give a glimpse of the arguments for and against. The poster had been published on behalf of the Hindu Raksha Dal, Delhi , by its President , Indra Sain Sharma, and Secretary, Rajkumar Arya. Both of them had been arrested under Sections 153A and 295A of the Indian Penal Code. These are the same sections which were invoked by Chandmal Chopra in his petition for prohibiting publication of the Quran. The publishers of the poster had cited 24 articles of the Quran under the caption: “ Why riots (Hindu-Muslim) take place in the country ( India )”. The publishers further argued that these articles command the believers (Muslims) to fight against followers of other faiths; and as long as these articles are not removed (from the Quran), riots in the country can not be prevented”. This case acquired considerable publicity when it came before the Court because Indra Sain Sharma happened to be Vice-president of the All India Hindu Mahasabha at that time. The prosecution seemed to be convinced that it had caught a big fish. But the Magistrate thought otherwise. He found that the Prosecution had failed to provide sufficient grounds such as could enable him to frame charges. He discharged both the accused with the observation that “ With due regard to the holy book of ‘Quran’, a close perusal of the ‘aayats (articles)’ shows that the same are harmful and teach hatred, and are likely to create disturbances between Mohammedans on one hand and remaining communities on the other”. The poster was printed in Hindi. The articles it cited were taken verbatim from an authentic edition of the Quran published by an orthodox Muslim organisation, Maktaba al-Hannat of Rampur in Uttar Pradesh. The edition provides the Arabic text of the Quran together with Hindi and English translations in parallel columns. We are reproducing the English translation of the ayats (articles). II English Translation of the pamphlet typed in Hindi. Some articles of the Quran command the believers (Muslims) to fight against followers of other faiths : 1. When the sacred months have passed, slay the idolators wherever ye find them, and take them (captive) and besiege them and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor due, then leave their way, Lo! Allah is forgiving, merciful. (Surah 9, ayat 5) 2. O ye who believe! the idolators only are unclean...( 9.28) 3. In truth the disbelievers are an open enemy to you. ( 4.101) 4. O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you and let them find harshness in you...( 9.123) 5. Lo! Those who disbelieve our revelations, we shall expose them to the fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment. Lo! Allah is ever Mighty, Wise ( 4.56) 6. O ye who believe! Choose not your father nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Who so of you taketh them for friends such are wrongdoers. (9.23) 7. Allah guideth not the disbelieving folk. (9.37) 8. O ye who believe! Choose not for friends People of the Book and of the disbelievers. But keep your duty to Allah if ye are true believers. (5.57) 9. Accursed, they will be found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter. ( 33.61) 10. Lo! Ye (idolators) and that which ye worship beside Allah are fuel of hell. Thereunto ye will come. ( 21.98) 11. And who doth greater wrong than he who is reminded of the revelations of his Lord, then turneth from them. Lo! We shall requite the guilty. (32.22) 12. Allah promiseth you much booty that ye will capture. ( 48.20) 13. Now enjoy what ye have won as lawful and good. (8.69) 14. O Prophet ! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey’s end. (66.9) 15. But verily We shall cause those who disbelieve to taste an awful doom and verily We shall requite (?) them the worst of what they used to do. (41.27) 16. That is the reward of Allah’s enemies : the Fire. Therein is their immortal home, payment for as much as they denied Our revelations. ( 41.28) 17. Lo ! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs. They shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain...( 9.111) 18. Allah promiseth hypocrites, both men and women , and the disbelievers fire of hell for their abode. It will suffice them. Allah curseth them and theirs is lasting torment.(9.58) 19. O prophet ! Exhort the believers to fight. If there be of you twenty steadfast they shall overcome two hundred, and if there be of you a hundred steadfast they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve because they ( the disbelievers) are a folk without intelligence.(8.65) 20. O ye who believe ! Take not the Jews and Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo ! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. (5.51) 21. Fight against such of those who have been given the scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger and follow not the religion of truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low. ( 9.29) 22. Therefore, We have stirred up enmity and hatred among them till the day of Resurrection, when Allah will inform them of their handiwork. (5.14) 23. They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah. If they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose not friend nor helper from among them. (4.89) 24. Fight them! Allah will chastise them at your hands, and He will lay them low and give you victory over them, and He will heal the breasts of folk who are believers.(9.14) “ There are numerous (other) ayats of the same sort. Here we have cited only twenty-four ayats. Obviously, these ayats carry commandments which promote enmity, ill-will, hatred, deception, fraud, strife, robbery and murder. That is why riots take place between Muslims and non-Muslims, in this country as well as ( the rest of ) the world.” “ In the above –mentioned twenty-four ayats of the Quran, Musalmans are commanded to fight against followers of other faiths. So long as these ayats are not removed ( from the Quran ), riots in the country can not be prevented.” III THE JUDGEMENT “ I have heard learned APP( Assistant Public Prosecutor) for the state and counsel of the accused and have gone through the relevant record on the file. The main thrust of the Prosecution is that the above words in the disputed poster tend to create communal disharmony and ( the comment) is an act with deliberate and malicious intention of outraging the religious feeling of a particular class of citizens of India and is an attempt to insult the religion or the religion belief of the said class. It is also submitted that ‘Ayats’ in the form published in the poster are not available or are the distorted version of the same...“ There is a dispute that the 24 ‘ ayats’ published in the poster have not been taken from the ‘Quran Majeed’ translated by mahammedan writer. It is found that they are reproduced in the same form as are translated in the said ‘Quran majeed’. In my opinion the writer by writing the above words has expressed his opinion or suggestion and at the most it can be branded as a fair criticism of what is contained in the holy book of Mohammedans. By no stretch of imagination the opinion expressed by the writer that unless these ‘ Ayats’ are removed from holy book of ‘Quran majeed’ there will be no hope of stopping the communal disturbances in different parts of india, can be said to promote and attempt to promote feeling of enmity or hatred between different classes of citizens of India. In my opinion it s a sort of suggestion to the readers or at the most a fair criticism and by publishing such suggestion or criticism, the writer or publisher has not in any way outraged or attempted to outrage the religious feelings of Mohammedan community nor it tends to create communal disharmony or hatred between two classes. With due regard to the holy book of ‘Quran majeed’, a close perusal of the ‘Aytes’ shows that the same are harmful and teach hatred and are likely to create differences between Mohammedans on one hand and the remaining communities on the other. “ I have personally compared the disputed ‘ Ayats’ with ‘Quran Majeed’ translated in Hindi with notes by one Mohd. Farookh Khan and have found that most of the ‘ Ayats’ have been reproduced in the poster in its original form as is available in the ‘Quran Majeed’... “The close reading of all the ‘Ayats’ published in the poster and read from the book do not in any way give different meaning nor suggest anything that the same were published with malicious intention. Therefore, I do not agree with the contention of the learned APP that ‘ayats’ Nos. 2, 5,9,11 and 19 and 22 are either not available in ‘Quran Majeed’ or they are distorted version of the said ‘Ayats”... “ In view of the above discussion, I am therefore of the view that there is no prima facie case against the accused as offences alleged against the accused do not fall prima facie within the four corners of Sections 153-A/295-A and hence both of the accused are discharged.“dated 31st july, 1986 Sd/ Z.S. Lohat REFERENCE BOOK – The Calcutta Quran Petition, Compiled and edited by SITA RAM GOEL Published by Voice of India , New Delhi – 110002 and printed at Book Kraft, Delhi -110040 This pamphlet is circulated by R.V.Bhasin, Advocate Supreme Court
  4. Killing a defenceless animal is hardly martial either. Call your self a Lion and Kill Goats. Try facing a real Lion. Singh soormein chadde shikaar Makhi gheri vich bazaar Mari nahi par Langdi Keeni Singh Soormein Bahadri Kinni. This is your view of being Martial. Randip singh - let me know if you need an interpretation of this into english. - LOL
  5. KDSingh80 - You need not wait 50-100 years for a new version. You have it now at Sikh Philosophy Network where new Sikhism has already taken birth. This version can be termed as Jat-Sikhism or Akali-Sikhism. This is when something is beyond ones understanding, you give it a new meaning. - Congratulations SPN.
  6. Simple answer to your quest is "Anand Sahib". Read, Understand and Practice. andrahu jin kaa moh tutaa tin kaa sabad sachai savaari-aa. Those who eradicate attachment from within themselves, are adorned with understanding of the Shabad, the Word of the True Lord. Those that truly detach themselves from worldly desires are the ones who shall develop a better understanding. The understanding of the message in the shabad gradually increases.
  7. There is no relevance to Abrahamic faiths here. The audience was not exposed to these missionaries yet. This is your personal angle to mis direct the audience. http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.g...id=18290#l18290 Page 397, Line 7 ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਹਭਾ ਹੂੰ ਬਾਹਰਾ ॥ बेद कतेब संसार हभा हूं बाहरा ॥ Beḏ kaṯeb sansār habẖā hūʼn bāhrā. He is beyond the world of the Vedas, the Koran and the Bible. Walk in the foot steps of the Guru's. Be physically and mentally fit. If they had not had been of a divine persuation, they would have been formiddable scholars. ਬੇਦ = Vedas, ਕਤੇਬ = Koran Where does the bible come into all this. These are small examples of your lack of knowledge especially in view of the essay belonging to someone else. I agree that Gurus were formidable scholars and were divine but you are showing a formidable lack of knowledge on Gurus Message. ekmusafir_ajnabi PS I shall not waste any further time to respond to your comments.
  8. Randip Singh ji, I am not a sheep that follows others with a blind fold. You claim yourself to be a historian but you know not anything about History. As I responded to your private message, you have spewed dirty on our Gurus, be it intentional or unintentional, but I will not stand for this insolence. I do and shall refute all your claims in your essay. I have already shown in my post above what Guru Nanak Dev ji was telling the Pandits in Kurukshetar. The line of thought and your misrepresentations stands out wide. There is a big difference in what Guru ji said and others understood. Those pandits now exists in the guise of a Sikh. When you have calmed down a little, read my post again and again and you too may come to understand Gurus message. No doubt you have over 8000 members but the first 8000 are all silent watching the stupidity of the number over. As VSGrewal pointed out you do not have more than 15 members participating so what is the joy in numbers. Most of the regular contributors are your moderators who are equally uninformed. You 8000 or so members are mere spectators and not contributors. "Oochi Dukaan Pheeka Pakwaan" Anyone can call himself a Sikh with a minuscule understanding of Gurus Updesh. This will not get anyone anywhere. We have all read your essay, please do not keep posting extracts from it again and again. Now wait for my response. You are a small fish that is taking credit of someone else's work but I will be responding to the main culprits head on. Try learning some other words like Daya, Santokh, Sabbar.(Dhaul Dharam Daya ka poot - One that has no Daya for other living beings is adharmic - his life is no better than an animal who does not have that Sense) Sabhna jiyaan ka ik data so main visar na jayee - All creatures belong to the same lord, let me not forget that - Japji sahib. Reading Bani, understanding and practicing are all related but follow in a sequence. Read Bani so that you can listen with your ears, Understand what you have listened and put it in practice. When you have done that, have some fear and love for the lord. It takes time but one day you will get there. ekmusafir_ajnabi
  9. On the contrary Randip Singh, It is not a case of winning and loosing but about misleading people as have been done in your essay by selecting English translations of the verses that are incorrect in the first place and further using your own twist on them. I am writing a full response to your essay and in due course i will publish it. You yourself have no understanding of Gurmukhi and are unable to read it, let alone trying to translate it. The proof will come out in the wash. Unfortunately for you, you are not going to have the controls of the moderators in this forum (unless you can buy yourself in) that you have exercised in deleting my posts. Mithar ji has already posted a question to you that SPN did not have the eyes or the understanding to see or it suits their agenda. When did you last use a dictionary. Let me give you a small lesson here. Lets first look at the definitions of Halal and Bismil: By definition: Halal – Ritual Slaughter: describes meat from animals that have been slaughtered in the ritual way prescribed by Islamic law Slaughter - the killing of animals for their meat Bismil - means to carry out an act in the name of Allah Please note that these scholars have come up with new meanings here. We are being told to take a blind view that Halal does not mean kill but refers to a specific form of slaughter. Let us now see what slaughter means: the killing of animals for their meat. So we have to conclude that Halal does mean killing. Now let me ask you here. When the animal is slaughtered by Jhatka! And the crowd chants “Bole so nihaal, Sat sri akaal.” How is that so different from saying Bismilla . Do you know that Jhatka is method of slaughter by HINDUS. How is their way of slaughter accepted over other denials Are the authors so illiterate and simple minded that it did not occur to them to consult a dictionary. So far there is no credibility in the essay, the author or the Editor. They have gained support from well educated individual who sing praises for this essay. This shows the mindsets of these supporters. The authors have dismissed this shabad as it does not carry the word Maas. Bravo to the Editor. He is so very right. Randip Singh, I do not blame your ignorance. Asankh MOORAKH ANDHGHOR Asankh CHOR HARAMKHOOR Asankh GALWAD HATYA KAMAYE Asankh PAAPI PAAP KAR JAHE Asankh KOORDIAAR KOODE PHIRAHE Asankh MALESH MAL BHAKH KHAHE Asankh NINDAK SIR KARE BHAAR Nanak neech kare kahe vichaar Wariya na java ek vaar JO TUDH BHAVE SAIE BHALIKAAR TU SADA SALAMAT NIRANKAAR - Japji Sahib. People like you exist in this world too but it is the truth that always wins. The response to you essay where your only contribution as the editor is to find the word maas will come very shortly together with several others of your mindset. Like my post above that is most probably beyond your understanding, i will show how the bani has been twisted. Having said that I have no enmity with you. People like you form part of this world. This is a SikhAwareness Board forum. They are part of any Cults and I intend to make people Aware of the truth over the Scathing lies you have spewed. Wishing you well. ekmusafir_ajnabi PS Just in case this forum also has an agenda and cuts my posts, come for parshad on my eBlogger. Also bring out your unknown authors from hiding.
  10. Shaheediyan ji, It is not my opinion but the message of Guru Nanak Dev ji and Guru Arjan Dev ji, without selecting specific verses out to make a point. The point of the article was to bring awareness to the reader of the theme running through these shabads and how the verses have been misinterpreted in the past by various scholars to justify their own personal agenda. You have obviously not understood the message of Guru Nanak Dev ji. I have no intention to argue with you either. Guru ji have said in the shabad above: ਨਾਨਕ ਅੰਧੇ ਸਿਉ ਕਿਆ ਕਹੀਐ ਕਹੈ ਨ ਕਹਿਆ ਬੂਝੈ ॥ Nanak Says, what can be said to these (Spiritually) blind people? Even if one tries to explain them they will not understand what is being said. The translations are in line with the interpretations of Prof Sahib Singh and Freed Kote Wala Teeka. If you have any particular issue with the translation then I am happy to discuss with you here. You response has gone off topic. -- ------------------------------ We can discuss this in another topic, but to give you food for thought. Your comment: All that said - the historical accounts of Guru ordained Jatka such as the Amarnama and detailed versions of 1699 - which completely tie in with the unaffected maryada of the takhts outside of the revisionist Sikh Vatican reach - give the searcher a reason to interpret the above shabds in a manner that reconciles with all the Gurus forms. Jhatka is also a traditional form of sacrifice as practiced by Hindus. It is a Hindu Ritual and should not be connected with Sikhism. The Hindus, when carrying out sacrifice of an animal, recites a mantar that roughly translates as: “We are fully conscious that we are going to take the life of this animal for our benefit. Should this animal need our services in the future, we will happily oblige the same” When a so called Sikh performs Jhatka he shouts out “Bole so Nihaal, Sat Sri Akaal” this is no different to the muslim saying of “Bismilla” – in the name of God. Amarnama by the Bards. Let me enlighten you of the fact that firstly, in the times of our Guru’s, the Bards were not allowed to perform in the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib or for that matter at Harimandir Sahib. Secondly , the performances by the Bards is regarded as Kacchi Bani. Bani that is not accepted as the word of our Lord. Bards used to make up stories that were performed in front of the warriors to uplift their moral before going to battle. Their sequence of events cannot be used to back up history. It is NOT authentic. I leave you to ponder on this. If you want to discuss the Amarnama, then please open up another thread. This one is off topic. ekmusafir_ajnabi
  11. Chatanga1 ji, Please read and re-read the article. Your answer lies there. ekmusafir_ajnabi
  12. The Fools argue shouting over Flesh Maas Maas Kar Murakh Jhagre The verse on page 1289 SGGS has been used by many prominent scholars as a means to justify their desires of eating flesh. They merely concentrate on the first part of the verse, whilst ignoring the real message. Guru ji is challenging the hypocritical stand of the Pandits/Scholars. The shabad relates to an event that took place in Kurkshettar. During the first Udasi, Guru ji visited Kurukshetra, a place where the famous battle of Mahabharat was fought between the Kauravs and the Pandavs. It was an occasion of solar eclipse when the Guru ji visited Kurukshetra. Thousands of pilgrims from all over the country including a large number of Brahmins and Saints had gathered there. Hindus consider it sacred to go to Kurukshetra at the time of solar eclipse, bathe in the holy tank and give alms to Brahmin priests. According to Hindu belief, solar eclipse occurs when Sun, the God, is harassed by its enemies, the demons. None is required to eat anything during the eclipse. Guru ji has as we see from historial evidence, has again challanged the hypocritical practices prevalent in the society. Guru ji intended here to highlight to the erring Hindu community that the eclipse was nothing but only a natural phenomenon. On this occasion, he noted the pundits were into heated arguments on the issue of flesh. In order to attract attention of the crowd, as the Sun began to eclipse, he availed a dead dear from the forest and asked mardana to begin roasting it. The smell attracted the crowed and they came running to see what was happening. Undoubtedly the Pundits and general public would have considered this act sacrilege to their beliefs A large angry crowd gathered in anger to attack the persons responsible. Some scholars tend to over emphasise this incidence and take the opportunity to highlight the issue that Guru ji Cooked and ate meat. They also attach stories like: 1. Meat dish of a deer was presented to them by one of his followers. 2. Meat was given to Guru ji as an offering, he did not refuse the courtesies of his devotee (Bhai Mani Singh, Gyan Ratnavali, pg. 123) 3. The deer-meat was, according to this version, brought to him as an offering by a Prince and his consort, who having been dispossessed of their realm, came to him for a blessing. (Dr Gopal Singh World Sikh University Press, Delhi ) Let us look at the absurdity of these statements first. - The event in question is marked as a religious event where everyone if fasting. No one would have in their possession cooked or uncooked meat for that matter. - Guru ji is not a familiar face that he would attract his followers to this fair. - No one would want to associate with a person who would have intended to disrespected the beliefs of thousands of gatherers let alone an unknown Prince and his Consort. - The statement by Bhai Mani Singh is subjected to manipulation. One who has spent his life in the Company of Guru Gobind Singh ji would be spiritually mature not to make such a statement. - Present day Sikhs that support meat eating are actually partaking in killing bakra(He goat) for meat and not deers. These statements are not only contradictory to the teachings of Guru Nanak Panth but inconsistent with the prevalent culture and are dismissed as non- conclusive. We must remember that throughout the lives of our Gurus, even their own family members were working against their teachings. So to misquote or mischievously alter text is not uncommon. Unfortunately these people are no more smarter than the pandits (scholars) that were arguing about flesh. Guru ji calls them fools. In order to do justice to the verse it is important to look at the entire theme of flesh that starts with Pauri on page 1289 followed by 2 Shabads. The theme that follows this is related to the taste of the tongue. All Shabads are by Guru Nanak Dev ji. Pauri : ਪਉੜੀ ॥ ਪੜ੍ਹ੍ਹੀਐ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਾਲਾਹ ਹੋਰਿ ਬੁਧੀ ਮਿਥਿਆ Mehla 1 : ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ੧ ॥ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਨਿੰਮਿਆ ਮਾਸੈ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਵਾਸੁ ॥ Mehla 1: ਮਃ ੧ ॥ ਮਾਸੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਰਿ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਝਗੜੇ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੈ ॥ ਅੰਧਾ ਸੋਇ ਜਿ ਅੰਧੁ ਕਮਾਵੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਰਿਦੈ ਸਿ ਲੋਚਨ ਨਾਹੀ ॥ ਮਾਸੁ ਪੁਰਾਣੀ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਤੇਬੀ ਚਹੁ ਜੁਗਿ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਮਾਣਾ ॥ The cause of misinterpretation is due the tendency of most prominent scholars is to pick and choose verses from SGGS to suit their personal agenda and the agenda that conforms to their collective manmat of our religious institutions. Some of these scholars tend to stand on one step on the ladder and attempt to explain every thing from the same step. This leads to misconceptions, distortion of the theme and misleads the listener. The listener is bound by the superiority of the scholar to tell the truth. Others do to display their superiority just because they have read SGGS more than 50-60 times. It is these people today that fall in the category of Fools as did the Pandits back then. In the Pauri Guru ji sets the scene of the mentality (ਮੂਰਖੁ) of the foolish scholars followed by a lesson on Gyi-aan and Dhi-yaan before elaborating on flesh. Let us go through the theme in the sequence it has been laid. Pauri - A form of versification – Pause. ਪਉੜੀ ॥ ਪੜ੍ਹ੍ਹੀਐ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਾਲਾਹ ਹੋਰਿ ਬੁਧੀ ਮਿਥਿਆ ॥ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਚੇ ਵਾਪਾਰ ਜਨਮੁ ਬਿਰਥਿਆ ॥ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਰਾਵਾਰੁ ਨ ਕਿਨ ਹੀ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ ਸਭੁ ਜਗੁ ਗਰਬਿ ਗੁਬਾਰੁ ਤਿਨ ਸਚੁ ਨ ਭਾਇਆ ॥ ਚਲੇ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਿਸਾਰਿ ਤਾਵਣਿ ਤਤਿਆ ॥ ਬਲਦੀ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਤੇਲੁ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਘਤਿਆ ॥ ਆਇਆ ਉਠੀ ਖੇਲੁ ਫਿਰੈ ਉਵਤਿਆ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੈ ਮੇਲੁ ਸਚੈ ਰਤਿਆ ॥੨੪॥ Pa▫oṛī. Paṛĥī▫ai nām sālāh hor buḏẖīʼn mithi▫ā. Bin sacẖe vāpār janam birthi▫ā. Anṯ na pārāvār na kin hī pā▫i▫ā. Sabẖ jag garab gubār ṯin sacẖ na bẖā▫i▫ā. Cẖale nām visār ṯāvaṇ ṯaṯi▫ā. Balḏī anḏar ṯel ḏubiḏẖā gẖaṯi▫ā. Ā▫i▫ā uṯẖī kẖel firai uvṯi▫ā. Nānak sacẖai mel sacẖai raṯi▫ā. ||24|| Pauree: Contemplate on Lords Naam and Sing His Praises; all other intellectual pursuits are false (anything that one evaluates intellectually is false – Sahaj siaanpa lakh ho te ek na challe naal – Japji Sahib.) Without dealing with the Truth (Naam of the True Lord), life is deemed worthless. No one knows the Lord's limit. None has ever found it. The whole world is enveloped by the darkness (blinded) of false egotistical pride; they can not accept the Truth. Those manmukhs that depart forgetting the naam of the Lord (they burn in the fire of desires in their hearts) is like being roasted in a heated pan. Putting oil on their burning fire, they burn due to duality (duality of Ego due to intellectual knowledge), They come into the world and depart when the play is over, in between leading an aimless life. Nanak proclaims, upon meeting the true Lord(the Omnipresent), the mortal gets imbued and merges in the Truth. ||24|| So who are the fools, they are those that are on intellectual pursuit of spirituality, those that are bereft from Naam. The best critic is one that is a failure in his field. They are blind and enveloped by the darkness of false egoistic pride. How can they stand the truth because that is a hindrance to their trade. It is upon meeting the true Lord(the Omnipresent), the mortal gets imbued and merges in the Truth. ||24|| ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ ਅਸਟਪਦੀਆ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਘਰੁ ੧੦ ਰੈਣਿ ਅੰਧਾਰੀ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਜੋਤਿ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਝੂਠੇ ਕੁਚਲ ਕਛੋਤਿ ॥ ਬੇਦੁ ਪੁਕਾਰੈ ਭਗਤਿ ਸਰੋਤਿ ॥ ਸੁਣਿ ਸੁਣਿ ਮਾਨੈ ਵੇਖੈ ਜੋਤਿ ॥੬॥ (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji 831) Raiṇ anḏẖārī nirmal joṯ. Nām binā jẖūṯẖe kucẖal kacẖẖoṯ. Beḏ pukārai bẖagaṯ saroṯ. Suṇ suṇ mānai vekẖai joṯ. ||6|| Without the blessing of Naam Simran their life is like a dark night, only the divine light can dispel their darkness. Those that lack Naam of the Lord are false, filthy and untouchable. The Vedas preach them sermons of devotional worship, those who listen, listens and accepts it (brings forth devotional love) beholds the divine light. ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ੧ ॥ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਨਿੰਮਿਆ ਮਾਸੈ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਵਾਸੁ ॥ ਜੀਉ ਪਾਇ ਮਾਸੁ ਮੁਹਿ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਹਡੁ ਚੰਮੁ ਤਨੁ ਮਾਸੁ ॥ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਕਢਿਆ ਮੰਮਾ ਮਾਸੁ ਗਿਰਾਸੁ ॥ ਮੁਹੁ ਮਾਸੈ ਕਾ ਜੀਭ ਮਾਸੈ ਕੀ ਮਾਸੈ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸਾਸੁ ॥ ਵਡਾ ਹੋਆ ਵੀਆਹਿਆ ਘਰਿ ਲੈ ਆਇਆ ਮਾਸੁ ॥ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਹੀ ਮਾਸੁ ਊਪਜੈ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਸਭੋ ਸਾਕੁ ॥ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਮਿਲਿਐ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਬੁਝੀਐ ਤਾਂ ਕੋ ਆਵੈ ਰਾਸਿ ॥ ਆਪਿ ਛੁਟੇ ਨਹ ਛੂਟੀਐ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਚਨਿ ਬਿਣਾਸੁ ॥੧॥ Salok mėhlā 1. Pahilāʼn māsahu nimmi▫ā māsai anḏar vās. Jī▫o pā▫e mās muhi mili▫ā had cẖamm ṯan mās. Māsahu bāhar kadẖi▫ā mammā mās girās. Muhu māsai kā jībẖ māsai kī māsai anḏar sās. vadā ho▫ā vī▫āhi▫ā gẖar lai ā▫i▫ā mās. Māsahu hī mās ūpjai māsahu sabẖo sāk. Saṯgur mili▫ai hukam bujẖī▫ai ṯāʼn ko āvai rās. Āp cẖẖute nah cẖẖūtī▫ai Nānak bacẖan biṇās. ||1|| Shalok, First Mehl: First, the mortal is conceived in the flesh, and then he dwells in the flesh (Womb). When he comes alive (i.e. soul enters the body), he finds his tongue in the mouth is of flesh; his bones, skin and body are all flesh. As he comes out of (the womb) flesh, and takes a mouthful of flesh (suckles on the breast). His mouth is of flesh, his tongue is of flesh; his breath dwells is in flesh. He grows up and gets married, and brings his wife of flesh into his home. From flesh (womb), flesh (children) is produced; all his relatives are made of flesh. When the mortal meets the True Guru, then he realizes the Hukam of the Lord's Command, then he comes to be reformed. Trying to release oneself, the mortal does not find release (release from the company of flesh from birth to death); Nanak Proclaims, making such unqualified claims, is damaging and fruitless ||1|| Guru ji has bestowed Spiritual knowledge on us that from birth to death we are part of flesh. It is all around us. Our soul , our breath dwells in flesh. It is with meeting the True Guru, that one realizes the Hukam of the Lord's Command, and he comes to understand and becomes aware of his surroundings. As you can see this is a lesson of Gyi-aan. ਮਃ ੧ ॥ ਮਾਸੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਰਿ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਝਗੜੇ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੈ ॥ ਕਉਣੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਉਣੁ ਸਾਗੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਕਿਸੁ ਮਹਿ ਪਾਪ ਸਮਾਣੇ ॥ ਗੈਂਡਾ ਮਾਰਿ ਹੋਮ ਜਗ ਕੀਏ ਦੇਵਤਿਆ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੇ ॥ ਮਾਸੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਬੈਸਿ ਨਕੁ ਪਕੜਹਿ ਰਾਤੀ ਮਾਣਸ ਖਾਣੇ ॥ ਫੜੁ ਕਰਿ ਲੋਕਾਂ ਨੋ ਦਿਖਲਾਵਹਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਸੂਝੈ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਅੰਧੇ ਸਿਉ ਕਿਆ ਕਹੀਐ ਕਹੈ ਨ ਕਹਿਆ ਬੂਝੈ ॥ Mėhlā 1. Mās mās kar mūrakẖ jẖagṛe gi▫ān ḏẖi▫ān nahī jāṇai. Ka▫uṇ mās ka▫uṇ sāg kahāvai kis mėh pāp samāṇe. Gaiʼndā mār hom jag kī▫e ḏeviṯi▫ā kī bāṇe. Mās cẖẖod bais nak pakṛėh rāṯī māṇas kẖāṇe. Faṛ kar lokāʼn no ḏikẖlāvahi gi▫ān ḏẖi▫ān nahī sūjẖai. Nānak anḏẖe si▫o ki▫ā kahī▫ai kahai na kahi▫ā būjẖai. First Mehl: The fools argue shouting about flesh, but they know nothing about meditation (higher understanding – understanding of a spiritual life) and spiritual wisdom (higher conscience). What is called meat, and what is called spinach (green leafed vegetables) What leads to sin? You have killed the rhinoceros, and made a sacrificial offering to appease the Gods(according to their assumed nature). Now you have forsaken meat and sit holding your noses but you devour men at night (planning /scheming to defraud people). You make a show before other people ( practice of hypocrisy of not eating meat) because or their inability to explain it through Gi-aan and Dhi-aan. Nanak Says, what can be said to these (Spiritually) blind people? Even if one tries to explain them they will not understand what is being said. Guru ji explains here to the pundits that just because they do not now eat meat, they are not free from flesh. Little do they understand the purpose spiritual life nor do they have any awareness. Else they would sit and contemplate on the difference between flesh(meat) and spinach and by eating which leads to sin and which does not. In ancient times, people used to make sacrifices to please the Dieties according to their nature(to please them) they would kill the rhinoceros and make a feast of the burnt offerings. Those people that think they have forsaken flesh, and on the occasions they see flesh, they hold their noses. In essence these very people devour humans at night i.e. they plot to deceive/cheat them. They practice hypocrisy (of not eating meat), and make a show before other people, but they have no understanding or awareness of what to say. Nanak proclaims that there is no point in educating these people, Even if one makes an effort to explain them they will not understand what is being said. They are fools as they argue for the sake of argument without knowing what in meat. They are totally ignorant. To use the above shabad to emphasise that Guru ji is advocating meat eating, puts those individuals in the same category of blind people and fools that argue about flesh, they are devoid of the understanding about meditation (higher understanding – understanding of a spiritual life) and spiritual wisdom (higher conscience). ਅੰਧਾ ਸੋਇ ਜਿ ਅੰਧੁ ਕਮਾਵੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਰਿਦੈ ਸਿ ਲੋਚਨ ਨਾਹੀ ॥ ਮਾਤ ਪਿਤਾ ਕੀ ਰਕਤੁ ਨਿਪੰਨੇ ਮਛੀ ਮਾਸੁ ਨ ਖਾਂਹੀ ॥ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਪੁਰਖੈ ਜਾਂ ਨਿਸਿ ਮੇਲਾ ਓਥੈ ਮੰਧੁ ਕਮਾਹੀ ॥ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਨਿੰਮੇ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਜੰਮੇ ਹਮ ਮਾਸੈ ਕੇ ਭਾਂਡੇ ॥ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਕਛੁ ਸੂਝੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਚਤੁਰੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਪਾਂਡੇ ॥ ਬਾਹਰ ਕਾ ਮਾਸੁ ਮੰਦਾ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਘਰ ਕਾ ਮਾਸੁ ਚੰਗੇਰਾ ॥ ਜੀਅ ਜੰਤ ਸਭਿ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਹੋਏ ਜੀਇ ਲਇਆ ਵਾਸੇਰਾ ॥ ਅਭਖੁ ਭਖਹਿ ਭਖੁ ਤਜਿ ਛੋਡਹਿ ਅੰਧੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਜਿਨ ਕੇਰਾ ॥ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਨਿੰਮੇ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਜੰਮੇ ਹਮ ਮਾਸੈ ਕੇ ਭਾਂਡੇ ॥ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਕਛੁ ਸੂਝੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਚਤੁਰੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਪਾਂਡੇ ॥ Anḏẖā so▫e jė anḏẖ kamāvai ṯis riḏai sė locẖan nāhī. Māṯ piṯā kī rakaṯ nipanne macẖẖī mās na kẖāʼnhī. Isṯarī purkẖai jāʼn nis melā othai manḏẖ kamāhī. Māsahu nimme māsahu jamme ham māsai ke bẖāʼnde. Gi▫ān ḏẖi▫ān kacẖẖ sūjẖai nāhī cẖaṯur kahāvai pāʼnde. Bāhar kā mās manḏā su▫āmī gẖar kā mās cẖangerā. Jī▫a janṯ sabẖ māsahu ho▫e jī▫e la▫i▫ā vāserā. Abẖakẖ bẖakẖėh bẖakẖ ṯaj cẖẖodėh anḏẖ gurū jin kerā. Māsahu nimme māsahu jamme ham māsai ke bẖāʼnde. Gi▫ān ḏẖi▫ān kacẖẖ sūjẖai nāhī cẖaṯur kahāvai pāʼnde. They alone are blind, who act blindly. They have no eyes (light of spiritual wisdom) in their hearts. They are produced from the blood of their mothers and fathers, but they do not eat fish or meat (being hypocritical of fish and meat eaters). But when men and women meet in the night, they come together in the flesh and there they perform bad deeds. In the flesh we are conceived, and in the flesh we are born; we are vessels of flesh. You have no awareness of spiritual wisdom and meditation, and yet you call yourself clever. O master, you believe that flesh outside is bad, but the flesh of those inside your own home is good. All beings and creatures are of flesh; the soul has taken up its home in the flesh. You eat the uneatable but you reject and abandon what is eatable, they have a teacher who is blind. In the flesh we are conceived, and in the flesh we are born; we are vessels of flesh. O Pandit, you have no awareness of spiritual wisdom and meditation, and you call yourself clever. Who is blind/ignorant? They whose actions are based on ignorance. Those that have no spiritual understanding. Otherwise if common sense prevails on them, they themselves they should realise that they too are a product of the blood of their parents. How can you condemn flesh as being bad (flesh that is not part of them). They are being hypocritical of fish and meat eaters. But when men and women meet in the night, there it is with the same flesh they perform bad deeds (ਮੰਧੁ = Bad, ਕਮਾਹੀ= Karam, deeds). The Pundit unnecessarily participates in an argument on the issue of flesh to prove his superiority over others. The underlying truth is he himself does not understand or have any awareness of the reality. He is hypocritical of the flesh that is outside his confines but the flesh of those inside his own home(his wife), he considers as good. All beings and creatures around us are of flesh. Our soul has taken up its home in the flesh. You eat the uneatable (earning by deceptive means) but you reject and abandon what is edible, (This should not be taken as an open invitation to eat.) The point to note here is that Guru ji talking here about flesh and how we are all born of flesh. He does not advocate eating here because the purpose of this discussion was not about eating but the provide an understanding to the Pandit who lacked knowledge of the subject and participates in an argument. Each time Guru ji says uses the word flesh, he makes repeated references to the understanding of where flesh comes from and not to the eating aspect. ਮਾਸੁ ਪੁਰਾਣੀ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਤੇਬੀ ਚਹੁ ਜੁਗਿ ਮਾਸੁ ਕਮਾਣਾ ॥ ਜਜਿ ਕਾਜਿ ਵੀਆਹਿ ਸੁਹਾਵੈ ਓਥੈ ਮਾਸੁ ਸਮਾਣਾ ॥ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਪੁਰਖ ਨਿਪਜਹਿ ਮਾਸਹੁ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹ ਸੁਲਤਾਨਾਂ ॥ ਜੇ ਓਇ ਦਿਸਹਿ ਨਰਕਿ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਤਾਂ ਉਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਕਾ ਦਾਨੁ ਨ ਲੈਣਾ ॥ ਦੇਂਦਾ ਨਰਕਿ ਸੁਰਗਿ ਲੈਦੇ ਦੇਖਹੁ ਏਹੁ ਧਿਙਾਣਾ ॥ ਆਪਿ ਨ ਬੂਝੈ ਲੋਕ ਬੁਝਾਏ ਪਾਂਡੇ ਖਰਾ ਸਿਆਣਾ ॥ ਪਾਂਡੇ ਤੂ ਜਾਣੈ ਹੀ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਿਥਹੁ ਮਾਸੁ ਉਪੰਨਾ ॥ ਤੋਇਅਹੁ ਅੰਨੁ ਕਮਾਦੁ ਕਪਾਹਾਂ ਤੋਇਅਹੁ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣੁ ਗੰਨਾ ॥ ਤੋਆ ਆਖੈ ਹਉ ਬਹੁ ਬਿਧਿ ਹਛਾ ਤੋਐ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਬਿਕਾਰਾ ॥ ਏਤੇ ਰਸ ਛੋਡਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੰਨਿਆਸੀ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਕਹੈ ਵਿਚਾਰਾ ॥੨॥ Mās purāṇī mās ketābīʼn cẖahu jug mās kamāṇā. Jaj kāj vī▫āhi suhāvai othai mās samāṇā. Isṯarī purakẖ nipjahi māsahu pāṯisāh sulṯānāʼn. Je o▫e ḏisėh narak jāʼnḏe ṯāʼn unĥ kā ḏān na laiṇā. Ḏeʼnḏā narak surag laiḏe ḏekẖhu ehu ḏẖińāṇā. Āp na būjẖai lok bujẖā▫e pāʼnde kẖarā si▫āṇā. Pāʼnde ṯū jāṇai hī nāhī kithhu mās upannā. Ŧo▫i▫ahu ann kamāḏ kapāhāʼn ṯo▫i▫ahu ṯaribẖavaṇ gannā. Ŧo▫ā ākẖai ha▫o baho biḏẖ hacẖẖā ṯoai bahuṯ bikārā. Ėṯe ras cẖẖod hovai sani▫āsī Nānak kahai vicẖārā. ||2|| Meat is permitted in the Puraanas, meat is also permitted in the Bible and the Koran. Throughout the four ages, flesh has been used. It is featured in sacred feasts and marriage festivities; meat is used in them. Women, men, kings and emperors originate from flesh. If one visualises them going to hell, then you should not accept charitable gifts from them. The giver goes to hell, while the receiver goes to heaven – is this not injustice. You do not understand yourself, but you preach to other people. O Pandit, you stand to be wise. You do not even understand where meat originates from. Corn, sugar cane and cotton are produced from water. The three worlds came from water. Water says, "I am good in many ways." But water too has its shortfalls. If one forsakes all these delicacies, then one becomes a true Sanyasee, a detached hermit. Nanak says reflect on this. ||2|| (One who reflects on this will come to an understanding that it is almost impossible to become a true Sanyasee. So cast off you Ego.) The above shabad refers to the hypocracy of the pundit about flesh. Guru ji is telling the pundit that you are a hypocrite. Today you have stopped eating meat and it has become bad. You have been feasting on meat for the past yugas in all of your ceremonies. The fact of the matter is that you do not know how to respond to this issue and you get into arguments on this subject. Guru ji then bestows the wisdom on the pundit and explains to him that all living beings and creatures are of meat and the origin of meat is water. The soul has chosen to abide in this flesh therefore there is nothing wrong with flesh where ever the lord abides, that place become pure. In the last verse Guru ji refers to the eating of meat as ਰਸ delicacy. The theme in this shabad is not related to the eating of flesh but to understand what is flesh. Guru ji is emphasizing that do not make statements when you have no understanding of the subject. To merely argue just for the sake of argument is stupidity. We have seen that the theme in the above shabads by Guru Nanak Dev ji is trying to educate the pandit on the origin of flesh and its purpose. Guru ji by giving historical examples tells the pundit not to be hypocritical about flesh on the basis that today you do not eat flesh and it becomes bad but yesterday it was ok when you were eating it in the pretence of sacrificial offerings to your Gods. One type of flesh is good (wife) and the other is bad when both types originate from water. Flesh becomes sacred because the Lord himself resides in it. The soul dwells in it. This flesh is the temple of the Lord. By killing the animal or for that matter a human being you are causing the soul to become homeless and nature has to create another body for it to be housed so that it can fulfil its karmic life. This is the spiritual reason for not killing. Be it man or animal. Nature calls for an account in both cases. In essence this is what Guru ji is telling us in the above shabads but our manmat scholars due to their inability to understand Gurus message twist the words out of frustration like an individual who has failed in his profession and now has become a critic. The reason why there is so much confusion and mis-understanding on this topic is because although people have academically acquired high degrees but have the missing element of Spiritual Wisdom. This is not available in books but is a blessing from our Lord. Other reasons for the misunderstandings is due to the illiteracy of out peers that run these institutions as well as the followers. They take everything for granted as being told by the scholar. No one dares to challenge the Sikh Scholar as no one dared to challenge the Pandit Scholar. There is no difference between them. They are one and the same. The purpose of this life is to rise above these intricacies and do Naam Simran. It is the religious duty of every human being to make an unselfish contribution to the pool of Naam Simran. Since everything originates from Naam. Time has come to stamp out and expose these fools who are desecrating the sweet memories and teachings of our beloved Gurus. Ekmusafir_ajnabi – April 2009 ekmusafir_ajnabi@yahoo.com
  13. Amrik$ingh ji, Please provide reference page for this shabad or Gurmukhi version
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