dalsingh101

The old currant bun's take on the matter..... http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3607664/Militant-Sikh-mob-wreck-Sikh-Cultural-Centre-in-Dudley-in-booze-row.html

Came across a reference suggesting Buddhist monks would use tea to help them concentrate during meditation. Anyone ever experiment with this or have knowledge of this they can share? Would a cup of Earl Grey do?

I don't think it is that hard to understand. Ultimately, our people have taken the notion of izzat to stupid lengths. By this, I mean they feel diminished and degraded if someone can show more financial strength than them. Thy feel they lose izzat without overt shows of wealth/status. Underlying this is a complete lack of spiritual depth in our people. The type that will have people content with less in their life and take them out of materialistic competition with one another. Whereas haughty, snobby insults in another culture may well lead to the recipient feeling bad, they will soon get over it. With the pendu brain, such an insult becomes unbearable to the point of them becoming desperate to avoid it and even suicidal if they can't. The notion of being content with what you have doesn't seem to exist with the 'aspiring' pendu. Most of the guys I speak to from back home aren't poor by Indian standards. They are usually from relatively prosperous and connected families who can afford to make all manner of dubious payments to get them here. What is lacking is a greater, higher level, progressive thinking. We are so individualised as a community that we are stuck in a game of petty one-up-manship. What makes me laugh is that despite all of the skulduggery, our people aren't ever going to be as prosperous as some Russians, Arabs etc. Most of all, it is sad to see. It is sad that we debase our community and any sense of morality/ethics pursuing these dreams. It's like an ugly, horrible streak that is just SO at odds with what Guru Nanak taught that it makes your heart sink. You should try being a bit more 'nirvair'. lol

It's a amusing to read the Daily [Anglo Saxon's] Hate's... sorry ...Daily Mail's take on the matter: Sikhs lay siege to their OWN community centre after private party sold meat and alcohol http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1392108/Militant-Sikhs-trash-OWN-community-centre-bid-ban-sale-meat-alcohol-private-party.html

You know there is something very weird (or should I say predatory?) about the mindset of most desis back home. If they made the environment more conducive for people to resettle/retire back there, maybe we'd see more of this. But whilst things remain as they are, with poor infrastructure and the way they treat 'NRIs' like something from another planet, are you really surprised people don't want to return? But I do potentially foresee a time in future (a few decades at least), where people could be moving to India for a better life, that is if the economy really does pick up and prosper in the 21st century. It does, however, seem as if Panjab is failing to take full advantage of the impending change taking place to its advantage? We seem to have no economic vision outside of the tired old agricultural thing we'd had going on from time immemorial.

I know this. When we try and analyse the reasons for this, it looks like we have no trust or faith in each other as a quom. What do people base such suspicions on? Experience? Or is it paranoia? I haven't been for a few years but I still have A LOT of contact with freshies here and with family back home, so I know what goes on over there and I know the mentality well. I don't know why we are arguing anyway. I think we are both seeing the same thing but only differ in that you are taking a softer, sympathetic approach to the matter, whereas I feel that enough is enough and direct and stern words are the order of the day. We don't disagree on what is going on, but rather disagree on the stance to take towards it. I've only ever known one desi I worked with who came here and worked for a bit (on a site), felt demeaned and didn't like the waking up early and went back asap. Mind you he wasn't a Sikh but an atheist Panjabi communist from a Sikh background. Like I said before, when you compare how other communities operate to how our lot go on, it seems to indicate we have a lot of hostility, jealousy and animosity between each other. That is exactly my whole point, what other communities take as commonsense and practical (based on experiences) seems to fly over our people's heads. It's a deeply rooted problem. It's almost like we struggle with higher level thinking? Pendu brained. This isn't being arrogant on my part, but an observation based on growing up around the most diverse range of cultures going and comparing. That isn't to say we don't have good things going for us, but still, that petty thinking that seems to characterise our lot these days is pretty strange - no matter how anyone explains it away.

I don't know how much of this was purely posturing/maneuvering for obvious material advantage or just how many of these 'high castes' actually believed they were the 'spawn of whitey'? I tell you what, those Brits played havoc with our self conceptualisations through their 'ideas'.

Well it was considered serious enough to be made a major kureit in most rehats a few centuries ago. Buying girls (which can be seen as a consequence of the low availability of females), was specifically mentioned as a problem in Prem Sumarag. We have the tales of Jassa Singh Ramgarhia and Sukha Singh being accused of the crime in 1700s. Plus we have accounts of the Brits who encountered it post annexation. What hope is there when educated people amongst us play it down or rationalise it away KDS? This paper covers some aspects of this. infanticide.pdf

It's not as simple as that. Foeticide has just replaced the much older practice of killing girls after they were born. We seem to come across this problem amongst apnay quite frequently in our history.

That's a point often lost on whitey. Killing unborn babies (regardless of sex) is considered okay here, but India gets hammered for doing this to females only. Thing people must realise is that whitey has a 'saviour' complex when it comes to 'exotic' females. This is probably feeding into that somehow? That being said, for Sikhs specifically, especially given the seriousness with which our ancestors viewed 'kurimaaring' - this is a disgrace.

Whatever you're on is obviously quite strong.

It's hit the national news. My flatmate mentioned it. I didn't exactly know how to respond to: "Is that how your people are going on!!!" Apparently the article she read singled out Panjab as one of the worst culprits.

lol@ I think playing the oppressed vulnerable, exotic female will probably have whitey going 'Aaahhhhh, you poor thing! Damn those beastly dark heathens!' Plus will help her career prospects.

Had to google 'Pete Burns' to find out who he/she was. Confession time. I vaguely recall thinking that she (Sophia) was moderately attractive many years ago. I'm so glad I quit the boozing.....

Hee hee!

KDS - People back home seem to think life is all roses for us here. It isn't. Nor was it easy for everyone growing up here. Desis need to figure that out. It is foolishly imagining that we are all living like kings here - that is causing half of the problems we are talking about. Plus yes, as a community, I think we really pity ourselves these days. That's sad.

I'm not disagreeing about the effects of geography on our thinking. That doesn't change the sad fact that overall, apna society just doesn't seem to be the circumspect, prudent type. And yes, on one side I do find it quite strange that given Panjabis Sikhs close contact with Brits for quite a while, and prolonged residence here they haven't really sussed out what goes on on this island to a great depth. But maybe that is simply down to the fact in reality we are a highly individualised society and that members generally have the psychology of doing things on their own without community support, unless it involves close family? Maybe that explains why apnay haven't been able to manipulate thee situation for a better corporate advantage for the wider community (as opposed to individuals)?

Interesting point.

Okay. Not at all. I've worked with these people many times over the years. Plus I've known A LOT of people who hire these types. So, although I agree that no one can speak absolutely definitively, I think I've been at the ground level enough to speak about the matter on more than just a theoretical level. Besides, don't misunderstand, underlying this is my own sense of disappointment that our own people couldn't do things more smarter, like I see other communities who do this kind of work do. The skills of the Polish immigrants here is often impressive. What Panjabis seem to have totally failed to grasp is how the 'good old days' of relying on former colonised people for labour is over and you now have hordes of motivated and trained people from eastern Europe to compete with. Strangely I noticed that all the garbage disposal trucks and road sweepers positions around here have been swamped by eastern Europeans in the matter of a few years. Seems like there are still some jobs our people just will not do (publically at least)? Even if the wages are very good?

I've always found the English [british?] people's failure to eat goat quite puzzling? I mean I'm pretty sure the animals are indigenous here but for some reason the natives seem to eschew them? Very peculiar?

An interesting related point to ponder is whether quirks of history lead to social groupings that somehow lead to certain types of biological characteristics being prevalent in said groups. OR does nature, within any human group naturally result in a diverse set of characteristics amongst them?

Truth is, I don't really see a strong will in the Sikh Panjabi community to preserve and use their language. I don't think the mass of young Panjabis think it important to learn the language to any significant depth even in Panjab. As one desi guy said to me in the Gurdwara, "Panjabis will employ one bhaiyya in their house and thee whole family will learn Hindi. Yet the bhaiyya will never bother to speak Panjabi. I think our sabhyacharak pehchaan is in flux right now. I don't know where it will end. From what I see the language is likely to be dead here in the UK in 2/3 generations. Already hordes of the 3rd generation can't speak it or do so very poorly. Unless we have something that makes learning Panjabi fashionable and enjoyable soon, I can't see this trend changing. I wonder ewhat the situation in Canada and the US is?

Those guys seem well organised: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/pakistan-humiliated-by-bin-laden-revenge-attack-2288175.html

What about construction work? What sort of provisions are there to learn these? Or are these passed down from family to family only?