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Niranjana

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  1. Like
    Niranjana got a reaction from Arsh1469 in Gobinday Mukandey Uddarey Apaare Hariang Kariang Nirnaame...   
    There are 'stories' (accounts/sakhis/folktales - depending on your take) of the late and much respect Sant Attar Singh Mastuanewale reciting this 'Chand' repeatedly during his time at Hazoor Sahib (I believe the foremost propagator of this story is one 'Sant Baba' Maan Singh - who most will no doubt remember for his alleged 'sex slaves' incident a few years back).

    The late 'Yogi Bhajan' and his 3HO with their usual 'new age' influenced Sikhi chant this as part of their special morning 'sadhana for the aquarian age' (supposedly Yogi-ji knew that the chants that form part of this 'sadhana' were the best selection until 2012 - not sure if this has anything to do with the London Olympics). According to 3HO, this offers 'protection' and was used by Guru Gobind Singh alongside a particular 'Yoga' exercise peculiar to Yogi Bhajan's Kundalini Yoga when training his Khalsa Troops.
  2. Like
    Niranjana got a reaction from Arsh1469 in What is 'Trai Mudra' ?   
    Gur Fateh!

    In the Sarabloh Granth we find the following verses:

    The dharma panth of the Khalsa spread, whose form is truth, liberation and auspicious action.

    Adorned with kachh, kes and kirpan they worshipped the Guru.

    Worshippers of Kala, [following] chhatriya dharma, they girded their loins and came first in the field of battle.

    Among them forty-five were accepted, and five were supreme among the Khalsa:

    The beloved Ajit Singh, Jujhar Singh, Fateh Singh and Joravar Singh,

    The fifth among the Khalsa [was] the True Guru who manifested this good Panth.
    Sri Sarab Loh Granth, 3, p. 496.


    This is an interesting reference to the 'Kshatriya' aspect of the Khalsa vis-a-vis the 4 components that make up 'Bir Ras'; Dharam, Daya, Dhan and Yudh and hence combine into the qualities of the Khalsa.

    Also, there is the reference to the Tria Mudra (Kesh, Kirpan and Kach) that many old historical texts reference before the formalising of the 5 K's.

    Any thoughts of the forum on this development into the 5Ks and also the 5 Banis as we now know them today?

    GUR BAR AKAAAL!

    --------------------
    Dohraa

    Mahaa Kaal Kee Saran Jae Paray su lae bachae.
    Uor Na upjae doosar jag pachiyo sabhai banai.366

    and...

    We have seen the matter of the ‘Treh Mudra’ mentioned elsewhere in other discussions on the forum, I feel that this notion does merit a separate discussion and I invite all to present their views, research and arguments on this topic.

    From my personal understanding and limited research I have come across the following things:-

    (1) The ‘Treh Mudra’ whilst only explicitly mentioning Kesh, Kirpan/Kard and Kach/Kachera may also include through implicaion the two missing components that make up the present day understanding of the 5K’s, namely that Kesh will automatically encapsulate the Khanga and Kirpan ‘may’ also imply the kara...

    My reasoning behind this (and please do present any counter arguments for this, for at present this is purely speculative) is that the Khanga is implicit from the injunctions for Khalsa Singhs to not have their hair matted (traditionally signs of passiveness, not necessarily in terms of warriorship, considering that warrior traditions do exist amongst the likes of Udasis, but from life in general as matted hair/locks like shaved heads do indicate signs of renunciation) and the Kara as it complements the Kirpan or Kard in its function...(these arguments do warrant further expansion, which I will do later, but for now these are only for introductory purposes).

    (2) Following from the above idea, we can see that if this implicit notion holds, then the ‘Treh Mudra’ or in very basic translation the Three Symbolic Gestures/Positions/Artefacts (please expand, those who have a better understanding of the language than I) essentially form groupings representing certain messages/ideals...I say this, since the number 3 is the first number of form, without getting too caught up in numerological notions, the triangle is the most basic shape (composed of 3 sides, the minimum number required to create form)... using this methodology, I have heard from some scholars that the ‘Treh Mudra’ is a means to consolidate into one all the 3 varnas classified in the Rig Ved (those familiar with this text, please expand...all I know is that traditionally prior to the reforms of Manu, there were only 3 varnas and not 4 and that these could be moved within as opposed to the strict rigidity that now exists)...on a similar note, the number 5 usually corresponds to change within Numerological circles, considering this number occurs commonly for Sikhs, what implications could this have...

    (3) Less esoterically, the ‘Treh Mudra’ was the form given and adopted by Guru Ji as signs of Khsatriyas (similar artefacts can be found in all Warrior traditions) and that insofar as keeping 5 items on one’s person this was a reference to the 5 Shasters to be kept (“Neeshani Sikhi di Punj Shaster Parvaan...Teero Dofungo...â€). Following the ban by the British on all weapon like implements, these were combined with the ‘Treh Mudra’ into the 5Ks as we now know them with increased ‘symbolic’ value over and above practical function...

    As I have indicated, the foregoing is simply presented as a means to spark discussion and are not entirely correspondent to my own views (which still are forming on this matter, hence the request to discuss further).

    I look forward to hearing from you all soon.

    Humbly,

    Niranjana

    and finally before anyone else asks where I the Sarabloh Granth can be found online...

    Sorry to disappoint, but I have not found the Sarabloh Granth online, despite trying to search for myself! There is very limited information about this on the net...I think I was asked about this on another thread, but if you do find anything, please do let me know...

    ...in the meanwhile, please could the forum provide some guidance on the points raised above...

    (For your informaiton, the quote above is not my own translation, but taken from the notes to an article published by Harvard Univeristy Press).

    Hope this helps...let's have some more on the Treh Mudra!!!
  3. Like
    Niranjana got a reaction from Inderpal1994 in Sada Jai Bhagauti   
    Desi Baba,

    Please reference further the Baba Deep Singh Granth as I have heard this many times in person when speaking with Sanatan Sikhs to the extent that his Gutka includes Uggardanti and a saroop of the Dasam Granth also contains this bani, however this is not referenced in any Dasam Granth study.

    As per the Bhagautee Astother, what are your views on the following lines:-

    "Parey preet so praat Astother Yaako, Karey RUDRA KALI namaskar taako"

    lit. "Whosoever recites this Astother with due love (preet) and reverence, Rudra (Shiva) and Kali (Durga) shall bow to them"
  4. Like
    Niranjana got a reaction from Arsh1469 in Udasis and Sewapanthi   
    "to remain celibate througout life is actually in option in Sikhi...(as) were the 10th guru's sons - all unmarried"

    Whilst there is evidence to suggest that separate written rehits developed for celibate existence within the Panth dinstinct from those of Sikhs/Akali Singhs, the reality is still that Grishti is 'encouraged'.

    The fact that all of the 4 Sahibzadas were unmarried is equally a case of their ages prior to being martyred. Moreover, there is also evidence which suggests that Guru Gobind Singh's eldest son was married, although this hasn't been widely accepted.
  5. Like
    Niranjana got a reaction from Arsh1469 in Our Mata, Mata Sahib Devi   
    The Dasam Granth makes reference to Guru Sahib's own birth and coming into the world on the hukam of Akal Purakh. Whether this relates to a physical previous birth or not is another question.

    It in no way implies that he was Dhust Daman, which is a story fabricated using the account given in the Bachittr Natak as its inspiration. Bottom line is Guru Sahib does not refer to himself as Rishi Dhust Daman at any place.

    As per the myterious Yogi - some more information would be nice, otherwise it is simply a case of chinese whispers - I heard from so and so, who knows a certain so and so, who is a great soul blah blah blah, that x Y z happened, hardly a great source is it now, and please save me the "certain things are only know as gupt" malarky.
  6. Like
    Niranjana got a reaction from Arsh1469 in Our Mata, Mata Sahib Devi   
    wahegurubol wrote:

    "Sikhs in india believe that Mata Sahib Kaur was was incarnation of durga mata , ofcourse I dont believe that..but thats what I heard from some ppl when i came across. Total crap !"

    The obvious question that comes to mind is if Mata Sahib Devi was indeed Durga, then

    (a) why did Guru Sahib marry her? Surely he would be inclined to do her pooja, given that the same group of people who advocate his myth also assert that Guru Sahib was Dhust Daman in his past life and obtained a boon from the Devi?

    ( Durga Devi always personally goes to war (in all her previous incarnations as Chamundi Maa or otherwise), our Mata Sahibs (contrary to the mascline image of Sikh warrior women portrayed by certain groups) never went to war themselves.

    This is also an issue I have with mainstream Hindus refering to Indira Ghandi as an incarnation of Durga last century, in this case, such an assertion it is nothing more than an insult to the Devi Durga, who is beyond comparison to a politician like Ghandi.
  7. Like
    Niranjana got a reaction from dalsingh101 in Mata Sahib Kaur Not The Giver Of Pataseh!   
    kam, you asked:

    “Can people put the quotes from differnt sources which do and do not suggest that Mata Sahib Devi was around at the time of the creation of the khalsaâ€

    I will reiterate and suggest the people try reading the text highlighted earlier - Sri Guru Sobha by Kavi Sainapati - this is, IMHO, one of the most reliable texts on Sikh history, however one of the most frequently ignored, particularly by modern day groups who like to dwell on Bhangoos Panth Prakash, which is, to frankly call a spade a spade, little more than Jatt propaganda. It also may well be regarded as the Nihang bible, however it is plain to see why given that it provides means to justify many of their supposed traditions and habits, strangely enough never found in any previous texts!

    As per your following comment:

    “i must remid you of the respect the Sikhs have for that of Mata Sahib Kaur is equivalent to theat of other feminine divens in history such as Lady Fatimah and Miriamâ€

    Again, as highlighted above, it is not Mata Sahib Kaur, but Mata Sahib Devi, this insertion of Kaur is purely revisionism which has been discussed at length elsewhere on this forum (from what I recall some 2 – 3 years ago).

    Likewise, the placing of Mata Jee on the same level as Lady Fatimah or Miriam is a more recent trend found amongst certain groups as a form of pseudo-feminism in an attempt to highlight contributions of Sikh women and uncannily one used to divert the inherent trend during the 18th and 19th centuries to parallel Mata Sahib with the Devi Durga, wherein certain segments of the Sikh populace under the influence of authors like Bhangoo chose to ape other tribal customs of those they regarded as warriors, namely the Rajputs and adopted a whole host of habits which were equally revisionist in view of the political climate at that time.

    What I find particularly interesting is that all of these revisionist attempts fail to highlight more apparent issues such as Mata Jee correctly being regarded as the Mother of the Khalsa (whether she was there placing patashas or not has no bearing on her position as our Mother, which she undoubtedly is) however she was never in any armed combat and never went to battle, which is something that is overtly ignored when it comes to discussing Sikh women in the pathetic bid to control them through the enforcement of rigid dress codes and other means under the guise of ‘equality’ as part of the pseudo-feminist stance that supporters of such thought use as a means of justification.

    Similarly, the roles of Mata Kivi Jee are frequently under represented, however the rise in popularity of Mai Bhago as the one defining role model of Sikh women is unsurprisingly one which is closely linked to more modern politically motivated agendas.

    The same is also true of many modern Sikh heroes who have only risen to popularity in modern times, including some large household names, such as Baba Deep Singh, who when one scans historical texts is not someone mentioned as frequently as say, Bhai Sukha Singh or Mehtab Singh for instance.

    Again, none of this lessens the contribution or respect one has for say Baba Deep Singh or Mai Bhago, however it appears only natural that with the passage of time, that certain aspects, figures, doctrines etc will be emphasised more than others, however the role of ‘silent evidence’ and ‘hindsight bias’ is something that historians and all of us need to consider in our assessments.

    For the record, the above are only my current observations and by no means intended to be authoritative/final in any way, just items for discussion and/or thought, bottom line is as outlined at outset, differences found in texts do not invalidate the concept or practice of the Amrit Sanchar nor does the discrepancies on Mata Jee’s presence in any way lessen respect for her as our mother.

    Regards,

    Niranjana.
  8. Like
    Niranjana got a reaction from AkalKiFauj in Mata Sahib Kaur Not The Giver Of Pataseh!   
    kam, you asked:

    “Can people put the quotes from differnt sources which do and do not suggest that Mata Sahib Devi was around at the time of the creation of the khalsaâ€

    I will reiterate and suggest the people try reading the text highlighted earlier - Sri Guru Sobha by Kavi Sainapati - this is, IMHO, one of the most reliable texts on Sikh history, however one of the most frequently ignored, particularly by modern day groups who like to dwell on Bhangoos Panth Prakash, which is, to frankly call a spade a spade, little more than Jatt propaganda. It also may well be regarded as the Nihang bible, however it is plain to see why given that it provides means to justify many of their supposed traditions and habits, strangely enough never found in any previous texts!

    As per your following comment:

    “i must remid you of the respect the Sikhs have for that of Mata Sahib Kaur is equivalent to theat of other feminine divens in history such as Lady Fatimah and Miriamâ€

    Again, as highlighted above, it is not Mata Sahib Kaur, but Mata Sahib Devi, this insertion of Kaur is purely revisionism which has been discussed at length elsewhere on this forum (from what I recall some 2 – 3 years ago).

    Likewise, the placing of Mata Jee on the same level as Lady Fatimah or Miriam is a more recent trend found amongst certain groups as a form of pseudo-feminism in an attempt to highlight contributions of Sikh women and uncannily one used to divert the inherent trend during the 18th and 19th centuries to parallel Mata Sahib with the Devi Durga, wherein certain segments of the Sikh populace under the influence of authors like Bhangoo chose to ape other tribal customs of those they regarded as warriors, namely the Rajputs and adopted a whole host of habits which were equally revisionist in view of the political climate at that time.

    What I find particularly interesting is that all of these revisionist attempts fail to highlight more apparent issues such as Mata Jee correctly being regarded as the Mother of the Khalsa (whether she was there placing patashas or not has no bearing on her position as our Mother, which she undoubtedly is) however she was never in any armed combat and never went to battle, which is something that is overtly ignored when it comes to discussing Sikh women in the pathetic bid to control them through the enforcement of rigid dress codes and other means under the guise of ‘equality’ as part of the pseudo-feminist stance that supporters of such thought use as a means of justification.

    Similarly, the roles of Mata Kivi Jee are frequently under represented, however the rise in popularity of Mai Bhago as the one defining role model of Sikh women is unsurprisingly one which is closely linked to more modern politically motivated agendas.

    The same is also true of many modern Sikh heroes who have only risen to popularity in modern times, including some large household names, such as Baba Deep Singh, who when one scans historical texts is not someone mentioned as frequently as say, Bhai Sukha Singh or Mehtab Singh for instance.

    Again, none of this lessens the contribution or respect one has for say Baba Deep Singh or Mai Bhago, however it appears only natural that with the passage of time, that certain aspects, figures, doctrines etc will be emphasised more than others, however the role of ‘silent evidence’ and ‘hindsight bias’ is something that historians and all of us need to consider in our assessments.

    For the record, the above are only my current observations and by no means intended to be authoritative/final in any way, just items for discussion and/or thought, bottom line is as outlined at outset, differences found in texts do not invalidate the concept or practice of the Amrit Sanchar nor does the discrepancies on Mata Jee’s presence in any way lessen respect for her as our mother.

    Regards,

    Niranjana.
  9. Like
    Niranjana got a reaction from Arsh1469 in Authenticity of Sri Guru Granth Sahib   
    "SGGS writen by its founding fathers"

    Like the American Constitution.
  10. Like
    Niranjana got a reaction from Arsh1469 in ~ Suraj Parkash Granth ~   
    amardeep - there are plenty, however I'm sure you'll find that this fine chap will be making sure that those parts are adequately glossed over in his translation using the 'touchstone of Gurbani'.

    In summary, the usual controversial items that crop up in all texts from the so-called 'Sanatan Sikh era', i.e. Bhang, Sharab, Devi Pooja, etc etc...however there are many other issues which are conveniently overlooked in most of these Granths by "scholars", "sampradhas" and "jathas" when its suits their own particular outlook...but that is another discussion for another time...
  11. Like
    Niranjana got a reaction from harsharan000 in Blind Faith & Sikhi   
    "Vent your questions and doubts and dispel them with the light of vichaar. Do not let 'faith' create a wall between you and Guru Ji"

    Thanks for this - it is of paramount importance to us all and well very put by you in your post.

    Best regards,

    Niranjana.
  12. Like
    Niranjana got a reaction from JustAnotherSingh in Beards   
    Let's cut to the chase guys:

    Keeping uncut hair as done by Singhs, will eventually result in a receding hairline (regardless of how 'long' the actual strands may or may not grow).

    Leaving aside the cosmic 'it helps meditation' points, tying the beard has the exact same effect on the beard hairs as a top knot has on the Kesh of the head, it is only exaggerated by the use of hair fixers and the like, however these can be avoided depending on the method of tying employed.

    I personally keep my beard open on most occasions (i.e. 99% of the time), however my beard is barely a fist long and I have little to be concerned about compared to others with consdirably longer facial hair - as Kavita pointed out, there are genuine reasons for others to tie theirs.

    This whole argument of 'seena-baseena' is nothing but a convenient argument, the AKJ love using it for their sarablohi rehit and hyper ventilating simran sessions, others for something else, like all fundamentalists, their position is ultimately that today the mainstream are not aware of certain practices of the ancients, so we need to correct it, however the sources of their evidence for what the ancients supposedly did are invariably highly questionable.
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