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i m not forcing u to blieve something that u dont want to believe, after all u will believe according to u r past karmas and sanskaars ! even if it is wrong or right. how old r u 15-16? u still have a lot to learn

No. You dont need and if you still hanker after Sants, you wont get anything. Zero. Sri Guru Granth Sahib is the Guru Nanak. ... So are you going to follow Guru Nanak Dev ji or are you going to follow a Sant ! You have to have unwaivering, strong steel like faith in SGGS as the same as Guru Nanak Dev ji. Our teaching is from SGGS. Do you know simply by looking at SGGS, you can get all your questions answered, all your teachings.. You dont even have to read. You have to have FAITH ! No Sant can liberate you. No Mahapurkh. Only SGGS can. I am not going to use the word Sant again as Sant refers to only SGGS the rest of other sikhs are only Gursikhs. Moreover it is the Hukam of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji to consider SGGS as the Guru. Yes we can learn from banis of other bhagats in the SGGS, but that is not a signal to take refuge in Sants. Anyways, I have had my share of Sants. God has showed me a lot of Sants from crooks to real brahmgyanis & everyone have there different stories and different saying. No one will say the samethings. All are different from one another. There is no use following them and if u do meet someone just listen to them, take what u need - leave the rest and give them a good farewell and bye bye.

This correct answer and this is what all true Gursikhs will tell u, not the wanna bes. so from then on , I guess u had refuge only in SGGS and nothing else and after that answer you got. I dont think you need to ask again "can you teach me sikhi?" becoz only and only SGGS can teach u sikhi, no human being can make u meet Guru sahib not matter how big a Sant he is, no one else can ! and no matter how much u read biogprahies of these sants.. they are not going to help.

RupZ, I will take your advice of not being proud and egoistic. I agree with your saying that we should look inside and not at Sants and there biographies. I am not slandering them.. but if you really wanna know.. I'll tell u. If u ever meet a God-realized Sant, it is just a blessing of God. You dont have to search them or look for them or read biographies.. You will get nothing. But God will give you sangat of Saints and Mahapurkhs for one day or two days or more and whatever message God has for you it will be delivered by the Sant. What we SHOULD NOT DO IS... that we should not get attached to sants. We SHOULD NOT Hanker after them or look for them for inspiration. In simple we we should not become there disciples. As soon as we are done with them.. we should completely leave them. What most ppl will do is that they will never forget them and they will indirectly make them as there Guru. Then it is like "Sant Ji and SGGS" in reality it should only be "SGGS , ONLY SGGS" When ppl follow sants.. they loose, becoz sants can not deliver u. Long-time ago I had bad time practicing nitnem, I even stopped for one week, but then one Gursikh met me and all of a sudden he asked me only about doing nitnem and only about nitnem and then He told me never miss nitnem and from that day .. I have been doing nitnem regularly and it happens without self-effort, even if I am late I still tend to complete it. There are some days that I miss, but usually I do it. I am not following that Gursikh, that person came for 2 days and he left. He forgot me and I forgot him. I dont talk to him. So sometimes God sends small messages through Sants, it is noghitn but a blessing. We should Hanker after them !!

I know you are Great, RupZ _/_ You are the top Guriksh and you live a Gursikhi life style so pranaam to you !

You see sikhi, god, parents, brothers, world different from each other. A Real Gursikh sees only God and everything as Same.... so you dont rate or prioritise things like that. He sees only "God..God..God..God" .. everywhere. In parents, friends, teachers he sees only "God" While u are seeing it different. as for Rupz, he simply failed to understand what I said. Okay go u r way. I NEVER MYSELF LOOKED FOR SANTS.... God simply made them meet me out of no where. They met for a day and then they left.. I didnt get to attached to them and I didnt follow them. This is Lila or Games of God. You can not understand Lila or Games of God. You are trying to use Logic, Logic doesnt work. That too is the hukam of God.

Beast, that is not ego. YOu failed to understand my question. It is simple... if u dont know about steel beams .. then u can not answer my question. Similary , if u r not in the shoes of fred'schildren then u cant answer that question nor can I . If you were.. then you'd probably know what to do. Simply by reading or talking we can not help other people, we have to be in there shoes. again read my above post. Let me tell u a sakhi, there was this boy was interested to learn archery, but his Guru didnt want to teach. This boy learnt it secretly by watching his Guru teach others, when his Guru found out that the boy had learnt it secretly and had become a good archer. The Guru asked the boy to cut the thumb of his right hand and the boy without hesitate cut off his thumb knowing that he would never be able to do archery the rest of his life. SO THIS IS HUKAM, ADHERENCE TO DHARMA/DUTY... If you dont have this quality in you, then u are far from even following the Hukam of Guru !! Its simple as that. ... those of who say on sikhawareness they follow the hukam of Guru. i can tell them that even if Guru sahib was appear to them in real-life, they would not even be able to follow a single hukam of Guru Jee.... They would fail hopelessly ! I can write down and tell.. that not a single person on sikhawareness can follow the hukam of Guru jee.. Not a single and that includes me. All ppl will talk big, but they cant follow hukam, they dont demonstrate in practical life. There is a famous saying "In the mouth there is God's Name, but in the hand there is a knife." you guys will slander u r parents and do nice seva at the Gurudwara. That is useless crap ! but if u do seva of ur parents or other human beings by seeing God or Guru Nanak in them, then consider u have done seva of u r Guru !

**Ram Chandra was son of Kaushilya and she sent Ram to 14 years in forest so that her real son would be king... but Ram Chandra accepted it as an order/hukam and never uttered a single word in protest and gave her full respect and love nothing less than a real mom. **Warnings1, The problem is with our ego, our thinking, the filth inside us. There is no filth outside ! or in our parents ! **Shraman served his parents to death, seeing God in them. He according to some sources later took rebirth as Gautam Buddha. **Prahlad , kept reiting the name of God even though His son father who was an evil man refused him and asked him to recite his own name. His father was going to kill Prahlad by asking him to climb on a hot pillar , when God came and killed the father of Prahlad and Prahlad even after the death of his evil father is asking God if his father will be liberated and God assures he will.

Warnings :1 You answer me first , If you are a doctor at a local hospital and I ask a engineering question of how to lift a 1 ton stainless steel beam without any crane or other lifting device ?

Guru Arjun Dev ji always listenned to his father, where as his youngest brother did not and was always wanting to do meditation, simran..etc..etc , He said he has nothing to do with the world.. But Guru Arjun Dev ji always lived in the Hukam, if father said to goto busienss purpose to Lahore or address the sangats or any other job .. Guru Arjun Dev ji did and finally Guru Ram Das ji(Father) passed Gurgaddi to Guru Arjun Dev ji(son). Is this example small enough for us ?

You also think too much, are your parents Fred West's type ? Yes or no ! Why not surrender to God and have faith in God rather than thinking of what 'type' our parents are and then see what results it will unfold for us?

Guru Nanak Dev ji got a slap and he never argued or spoke back ! while I guess if some ordinary person got a slap then they would slap back ! which is sin ! Regardind sexual abuse, I think that you think tooo much far and thinking has no limits.. you can think of all the worse things that can happen, but can you not think one positive thing? are your parents sexually abusing you? Instead wasting time like this it is more beneficial to have faith and surrenderance in God and then see .. what results will God unfold?

Okay bro, do.. try all your self-effort and we'll see where you get ! This kind of stage is hard to explain and can only be felt, but ppl get tired with there self-effort and repeating God's Name, they dont get anywhere. Your first step only happens by Kirpa of God ! Your effort doesnt work. The time you understand that "You have NO POWER"... that will be the day you will first enter the path to God. Your first step is to surrender to God, To have Faith in God, this is the First step. Once you surrender God comes all the way to you. God will take your hand, when you GIVE UP EVERYTHING TO GOD. Read first puaree of today';s hukamnama in Punjabi. *********************************************************** Regarding parents, A worldly person will see the world as follows "God, Parents, Brothers, Sisters, Wife, Children." A Gursikh will see the world as follows "God, God, God, God, God, God." A Gursikh never faces the problems that you mentioned or atleast even if he does, they are all well sorted and he never ends up in an argument. As for Amrit.. its not in your hands. If Guru Jee gives it to you.. you get it... if not then not ! but those who see God's Hukam in there parents... they get much more they asked for, while those who are argue and fight... usually end up with a headache ! I know hardcore bhagat, His parents use to stop him to do this and that and a lot of restrictions... but he never spoke against his parents and he is now in chardhi kala.... God has given him more !! much more !! kirpa and grace. First learn to see Akali Guru Gobind Singh Jee in your parents , in the world and everywhere.. Only then can u recognise the Hukamnama of Guru Sahib otherwise it is difficult to recognise the Hukam of Guru Jee & only those on whom Guru jee casts kirpa can recognise the hukam others will read from here and there and will go slander hindus and kill brahmins. So good luck with all your "trying" and "self-effort".

n30 singh, Gurbani is Brahm ! It is not a school book that you can open and read and draw out some basic conclusions on what can be done or not ! Bani can only be understood by people who have reached the stage of brahm-gyan ! and it cant be put to explanation ! I know what you are trying to say from Sukhmani Sahib. I will tell you that there is no such thing as Sant. The only Sant is Guru Sahib , the SGGS !!!! There is no other sant besides that ! Let me ask you, have you met any Sant ? I have met genuine Gursikhs myself , who have had extraodinary miraclous experiences with Guru Sahib. But I dont follow those Sants and they dont want me to follow them. They all say that there is no such thing as sants and no **human** can deliver a person to God. All of them beleive in the power of SGGS. I too beleive in the power of SGGS ! and I dont try to copy them or take inspiration from there life. We all take inspiration from SGGS. You will read one little biography of some sant you get filled with **awe** and run after that sant and start doing the samethings. .. It doesnt work friend that way ! basically you guys are just after miraclous/ridhis/sidhis. If I give you biography of Sant with no ridhi/sidhi or miracles in it.. then you will be least interested to read it ! haha Sants have a different story , a different purpose, infact everyone has a different story, different purpose.

okay then u copy Baba Nand Singh Sahib and do the samething and those links have no actual athuneticity and Baba Nand Singh Sahib never had refuge in anyone bsides SGGS or considered anyone else besides SGGS as Guru heh and you are NOT Baba Nand Singh Sahib, His story is different from yours. Copying him and doing the samething becoz it worked for him isnt gona work for you. It is God who makes you do what is right for you. Plus.. no, Baba Nand Singh Sahib never read from SGGS , but he knew all of it from heart ! I dont rely on Sikh historians and gyanis for info.

TO UNKNOWN-GIRL. PLEASE READ EVERYTHIGN WHICH IS WRITTEN BELOW YOUR QUESTIONS IN ARE IN RED AND MINE IS IN BLUE Can you gurantee that i wont get anywhere spiritually if i read biographies? who are you? God? No, but It aint a big help ! Nothing can be guarenteed here. Just because you'v had certain experiences does not mean to say that you will not reach God if u read biographies, How do you explain Bhagat Dhanna doing darshan of God through a STONE????? Bhagat Dhanna is Bhagat Dhanna... You are You. You wont get the same experience if you copy bhagat dhanna ! Bhagat Dhanna had his own karmas. oNCE upon a time I also use to do the samething that these bhagats did, but later I realised that my goal is to meet God and not be like the bhagats and now I only sit back and enjoy the love-filled banis of these bhagats. We shouldnt try and be like them? er... :? Sure not ! Coz thats impossible ! You are going to become what God will make u. You have NO POWER to be like them. They might not talk about INNER-LIFE but they can be a inspiration to some people to realise the true path and follow SGGS can't they? [glow=red:48e99b939f]"and SGGS"... why "And SGGS"?? ... why not "only and only The SGGS"??[/glow:48e99b939f] This is an indication of weak faith in the SGGS and to know the inner-life is impossible without grace. Guru Ji's Hukam comes first becuase when you die, you take responsibilty for your own actions, you cant get away with stuff by saying 'my parents are God' so i had to murder a guy because they said so, for example. Hahahaha. First learn to do your Dharma Duty properly ,, then go fall in the feet of the Guru. Once when one Mughal was asked to cut a gursikh into pieces then that Mughal refused to cut and became emotional and then the Gursikh said to the Mughal that it is your duty and order to cut me into pieces therefore complete your dut This Mughal followed the Hukam of God and was accepted in the court. Had he refused to follow his duty.. he would not be or atleast would have a hard time. In this game.. you have to keep your inner-self deatached from good and bad and follow the HUKAM. Guru Jee is gonna see your Inside and not your Outside ! Finally, You dont recognise the Hukam of the Guru. It is not easy to recognise. When your parents say dont take Amrit... Then that Hukam is coming from the Guru. Guru Jee's hukam is not same for everyone. The time when I had to take amrit.. my family tried to get me as late as possible.. I was one hour late for the amrit ceremony and had no hope of getting Amrit.... but when I arrived at the ceremony, luckily the ceremony had not even started. So if Guru jee want to give u something, then you will get it without worldly constraints and restraints, But if Guru Jee dont want to give you then no matter how much u try.. u cant get it ! Guru Nanak Dev Ji disobeyed their father, have you forgotten sacha sauda?? the Janayoo ceremony? Guru Ji always stood by Truth, if your parents and Guru Ji's rules are in line with each other then we should by all means obey our parents but if our parents tell us to do something against Guru Ji's Hukam then we should not obey them, i thought that would be obvious... No.. No... You are mistaken Guru jee never disobeyed there parents. You are completely mistaken. They never spoke against there parents. This you fail to understand. Even during the thread-ceremony He didnt disobey. You simply dont understand the hukam of the Guru and the principle duty/dharma of life ! This is why u see the two -opposite to each other. Okay if u want to against u r parents then go.. but it is A HIGH PRICE that you pay ! Moreover remember in the war of AnandpurSahib when Guru Gobind Singh was asked to leave anandpursahib by his mother and Guru jee knowing that it was a trick by mughals and even though he knew leaving Anadpursahib is goign to be a bad decision.. He still followed what his mother said. So we should not learn punjabi? or do Kirtan? Have you lost it? LOL.. You think God is gonna be happy with u learning punjabi .. HAHAHAHA.. If learnging kirtan doesnt melt your heart and mould your heart.. then its of no use and there are many raagis who do kirtan all the time and then they look at girls and cheat people. There are other people who dont even know anything about kirtan, yet they are filled with Love for God and as for pUNJABIS... God isnt pleased by "language".. God is pleased by Love. So "Punajbi" is not a variable factor for meeting God. Moreover SGGS says.. that so many ppl come and sing kirtan with great professionality, but they are not accepted becoz they dont live in the HUKAM God doesnt automatically make u a 'sant baba' . It takes alot of Bhagti and concentration to get to a stage like Baba Nand Singh Ji Maharaj hahahahaha... Please increase the size of the bucket you are carrying. God is the giver of Bhagit, Love.. If God wants He will give you all this, it is just a matter of how simple, innocent your heart is. Baba Nand Singh Sahib did what He was destined to do. He did what his simple, innocent heart told him to do ...but if you copy Baba Nand Singh Sahib you are loosing that simpleness, innocence. It is not a matter of to much "bhagti" or to high stage. God is the giver of all these things and God isnt gonna judge you by that. Goto Golden Temple and you will see 100s of ppl doing path 24 hours a day, but God didnt meet them, why ???? why??? they do so much seva, so much kirtan, so much path.. but why God dont meet them?? They even leave there homes and stay there ??? whereas a wife who serves her family well is at once blessed by God ??? If u r trading bhagti for meeting God.. u r not getting anywhere. Real Bhagats dont do simran to meet God, They do it becoz it has become a hobby and They love it ! Even if they had to goto hell.. they'd still do simran. If God wants.. He can meet you with zero bhakti and if God wants He wont meet you even if you do bhagti for 1000s of yugs. Understand it is the WILL OF GOD. Ajamaal did Sin all his life, having sex with a prostitute throughout his life and being outlawed by the country.. but in the last moment still God met Him hehehe Tell me what bhakti did Ajamaal did??

mORE... Sants/mahapurkhs have there own life-story and our story is different from them, reading there biographeis isnt gonna help. In most cases it wont apply to us even. Only what the SGGS says is gonna apply to us and that u r gonna know automatically if u have faith in it.

I disagree... To some how punjabi culture is simply being corrupted by sants./mahapurkhs. These people come and talk about how much seva they did of this and that sant and how pleased that sant was ! In my opinion people who go after sant/mahapurkhs.. lack faith in SGGS and have still not accepted SGGS as there True Guru ! Those people who have accepted SGGS is the True Guru.. Dont feel the need for any sant/mahapurkhs. If you want to talk , ask questions, or read biographies then go and talk to the SGGS. Regarding talking about praises of sants in SGGS.. as I said The bani of SGGS is brahm and can be understood only people who have met God. It is impossible to understand by just mere reading and one can only make mistakes and misunderstand and this is what the christains and muslims do with the bible and the koran. Regarding Sants. There are no sants. The only SANT IS SGGS AND NONE OTHER THAN THAT. The reason I say all this, because I have personally met many ppl who use to go and read biographies of sant mahapurkhs.. to get inspired and stuff and then do the samething. I myself use to do that a lot, but once I met a Gursikh who told me to immediately stop all of it ! People who are engaged in such practices usually dont get anywhere and are mostly stuck in "Self-effort" and get tired but with no results. This Gursikh told me not to follow or have faith in anyone besides SGGS ONLY ! by doing sangat for 2 days.. It changed my mind and I could see How Great my SGGS as compared to Sants/Mahapurkhs and after that I have had no problems. Other people also who were mislead just by sants/mahapurkhs and when this guy left all these sant/mahapurkh tales behind and had faith in SGGS.. He was in super chardhi kala Just remember NO SANT/MAHAPURKH can take u to God. Only the SGGS can take you to God. Our Guru is SGGS not SANT/MAHAPURKHS ! Some ppl are pretty amazed by biographies of Sant/Mahapurkhs.. ..and they easily loose faith in SGGS and then they start following and reading about Sants. None probably know about how great SGGS is .. that is why they follow sants. They dont know that SGGS is the Master of all SANTS.

Just remember unknown-girl and samosa singh.... that No sant baba can ever take you to God. No one and no one except and only Sri Guru Granth Sahib. You can break your head reading all the biographeis of sant baba and then awe over it. It aint gonna help you. Just try to keep faith in SGGS and leave all this sant babas for one time and you will see the difference. Reading such biographies one is only mislead ! You can read it for the fun of it, but dont try to be like them or try do the same or follow from there biography, because each sant is different for a different purpose and each sant will say a different thing that applies in a very stringent way.

To your question... I would like to say that you are not Baba Nand Singh Sahib or Bhagat Kabeer !! You are You You are different and you should do what you have to do and by reading biographies of sant babas you are not getting yourself anywhere.. but just putting yourself in a difficult position ! I have had that experience and I can write down and tell that no one is going to meet God unless they have unwaivering faith in SGGS. Your only refuge is the SGGS !! AND NOTHING ELSE BESIDES THAT. I myself use to read a lot of Sant baba biographies, but when I dumped all sant babas including the real brahmgyanis and when I had concrete faith in SGGS... all my doubts were cleared and everything was open for me. SGGS spoke to me from inside my heart and not from any biographies ! We should respect all SANT BABAS, But we should not read there biographies and try to be like them. They are different from us, we can not take there example and try to imitate them. There biographies dont show us the path to GOD. Plus there biographies dont talk about there INNER-LIFE... which is more important. Regarding serving our parents, kirt.... Samosa Singh let us first see how good we are at it ?? Your parents put food in your mouth from the time you were born.. God possibly will not accept someone who cant obey there parents and serve them properly. Someone who cant respect,serve and do there kirt CAN NOT also obey the hukam of God and be faithful to God. Regarding taking amrit , Unknown girl. If your parents dont allow you ..then dont take it. Dont be too self-fish and you will see that God will give you even more ! once my parents told me to stop meditation on God and I stopped ! and guess what ?? I didnt have to meditate anymore.. God gave me the power to remember Him in sleep and that I obeyed my parents.. I feel God ang sang with me always and even more closer than I felt before ! and now my parents say that I should never miss my nitnem. This is the Blessing of God which you will get if u surrender and walk on hukam! This is the power of God and this is what God will give you .. if you live and obey your parents ! and do your duty and kirt fully. You guys are runnign here and there... putting so much self-effort in doing this and that and quarrelling with each other by picking verses from SGGS. Some of u guys do half your nitnem and then bang your head over not doing the rest of it, while others break there heads agains the wall for not waking up at amrit vela. :bling: I know the situation of you guys, but this isnt the correct way. HAVE FAITH IN GOD AND OBEY.. Then see ! wasting hours learning punjabi, kirtan and reading biographies of sant baba. All of this is not gonna get you anywhere. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA :-) If God want to make you a sant baba.. then you will automatically become one, Reading biographies and copying and imitating them isnt gonna help and no sant baba will take u to God , but only SGGS will take and only SGGS will show "YOU" the path to God , a biography of Sant Baba isnt going to show you. It can perhaps mislead you. Nothing is in your hands.. All is in hands of God. You can not do simran.path by yourself ..... It is God that makes you do it. You can not take amrit by yourself... It is God that gives it to you.

Most people here are just caught up in there intellects/rational/logical reasonging. Sargun and Nirgun Gods..... ---> There is no such thing. God is God. Not be understood in contexts of "nirgun" "sargun" and those who say they follow the Guru's Hukam are Not actually following it. and there are others who will just criticise the hindus and slander sikhs for keeping pics of Guru Jis and worshipping them. Well okay, I got a pic of Gur HarKrishan on my table and I always pray to it ! calli t hindu, call it wrong or call it against hukam. BUT... Guru jee dont care about these things ! Guru Jee only care about Love and only Love in the devotee and Guru jee sees how simple a devotee is . The more simple you are the more acceptable you are and if you are reading books and trying to copy from them and do samethings.. then you are not being yourself. In this path you have to be yourself. as for Rupz talking about reading from the Sri Dasam Granth. I told you that the BANI of Guru is Brahm ! You can NOT understand by reading, contemplating or getting into intellectual war ! The Bani is ONLY understood by people who are in One with God ! Those who people are in One with God dont even have to read, they already know it from before, they dont even have to learn kirtan, tabla, harmonium, ... becoz then they automatically know all these things... while other ppl are only wasting these things. Kal Yug once said to Guru Nanak that Kal Yug will mislead people by showing them criticisin in the bani of bhagats and thus making them do sin and this is what I actually see some people doing it. criticising and falling in the maya trap

you dont have to be like bhagat puran singh or bhai lehna or imitate them to be hardcore seva. God already gave you so many things... parents, kirt, etc. ....

Jis ke vast soi lain jayega. "What he has given, he can take it back". For me God is like a pond of water and I will drink from it and drink as much as I want. N30 SINGH. ... Hardcore seva exists. You dont have to goto teh Gurudwaras. God gave you parents to do seva for. He gave you duty/kirt for which you should do seva and morning and evning doing path/simran. This is hardcore seva. You dont need to search or go out for seva.