heyyo

Fateh, Greetins to all. Basically, I'm going to be a counsellor at one of the Sikh Youth Camps that runs for a week near the end of summer. Anyways, I chose to lead a discussion on issues such as Alcoholism, Violence etc. (if you live in British Columbia, Canada, you unfortunately know how big of a problem it is fast becoming. :? ) Anyhow, anybody have any good ideas or articles/readings that I could present and any ideas for getting the children really involved in the discussion? (ie. skits etc)??? Your feedback would be much appreciated. PS: It's mostly going to be a group of kids between the ages of 10-17 Thanks

A serious question...... What about them people who get like lets say their eyebrows or something PERMANENTLY electrolicized or lasered (whichever) and basically the hair doesn't grow in too much nemore. Technically, if they take amrit and do the whole 9 yards with the kes etc, does that still technically make em amritdhari since they did get the "unattractive" hair problem fixed? Basically, I'm sure everyone is pretty much agree to an answer of NO, but more input would be appreciated. Thanks in advance

The title says it all

Bump

Once again, who are you to say that two individuals are together only on the basis of eachother's looks? Kind of a shallow argument, isn't it? :roll: Cmon, I expect better than that. Moreover, I can kinda see your argument that some people engage in lust blah blah, but think about: Whenever you see some young Sikh jack walking around with a girl on this hand, do you REALLY THINK THAT HE'LL END UP MARRYING HER? NO!!!!! That's just a stupid guy who's just looking for a good time....please don't automatically lump a person who sees or dates a girl with the concept of a love marriages!! As shocked as you may be to here this, it's actually possible to have a LOVE MARRIAGE/RELATIONSHIP without indulging in any premarital sex. Yes, I know, I'll face a fury of backlash sayin "yes, but you can be tempted"...but once again, that depends on the individual.....Sorry to tell all you hardcore religious types on this board, but you can see increasingly that even amritdhari sikhs have girlfriends prior to marriage!! So, like I said, it all depends on the person.....I think that most people are against love marriage only because they associate it with NON-SIKHI types who are already thought to be corrupt only for not being amritdhari. (Sorry, but I gotta say, I've met a few religious SIkhs who really look down on me cuz I'm not baptized, but when I turn around, it's their baptized kids who are out doing drugs and gettin drunk :roll: ) What I'm trying to say is that, please don't automatically dump on love marriages without fully exploring them, because in the end, even arranged marriages can be complete failures!!!! The mistake people make is to analyze the sort of marriage, and NOT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN IT!!!!!!! PS: I know how you used the Gurus as examples for love marriage, but cmon, that was a totally different time. I don't even think Guru Nanak could have brough up as big a change as introducing love marriages j/k........but newayz, I don't think it's a good example to use, also because you can't really compare the actions of the divine Gurus with ours..I know people will say it's up to us to achieve such a spiritual status, but lets face it, if ANY OF US were able to be 1/10th of what the Gurus were, don't ya think this world would be a damn better place to live And so ends my tiring monologue.........

Firstly, who's to say that love just means lust. So you're telling me that a person wouldn't feel that same way after seeing their arranged bride for the first time? Not exactly a good example, but you know what I mean....you can't simply correlate only a love marriage with lust Secondly, please don't use that 50% statistic. It's so flawed beyond comprehension. You know why most love marriages end in divorce according to your statistic? That stat is taken mostly from a caucasion population where it is seen as a mostly acceptable action (except catholics blah blah, you get the point though). But in general, the argument is flawed because do you think that a culture which forces it's people into ARRANGED marriages would be accepting of DIVORCE? NO!!!!!!!! Exactly the point. Tell me how many Indian women who have had arranged marriages to supposed Prince CHarmings, only to have them turn out to be drunk and abusive. Oh but WAIT, Indian culture doesn't look too happily upon this women divorcing her husband, no matter the circumstances...so she's inevitably STUCK........THAT IS WHY WE GET THE STAT THAT 50% OF LOVE MARRIAGES END IN DIVORCE! IT'S BECAUSE THE MAJORITY IF PEOPLE WHO GET ARRANGED MARRIAGES COME FROM CULTURES THAT FORBID DIVORCE, NO MATTER HOW DIRE THE CIRCUMSTANCES. Thanks

Disgraceful indeed, but relatively old news.

Chill. You should get some more info before you jump the gun. You'll more than likely end up shooting yourself in the foot

Here in Surrey BC, all the foolish Punjabi population basically voted for people all the Punjabi candidates....that's why we have fools who can't even speak proper english walking around triumphantly, acting as if they're doing something for the good of the community. In actuality, they're just gettin rich and using the stupid masses as a tool to keep them in power. Seriously, I seriously think some ppl just shouldn't be allowed to vote

Jatti, I assume you're in the 2nd year biochem program at UBC...I am too, but I'm a total idiot by tryin to do honours biochem (well more like doing it for this year, only to have my low marks get me kicked out in 3rd year ) But newayz, I assume you too had chem 202/203 and bio 200, math 200 blah blah as I did. Well, I didn't do too well either.....well not good in respects to the outcome I expected given the amount of studyin I put in :? :x Yep, I know it's hard to do cope with the fact that we're doin so bad in UNI when we basically slept through highschool and still came out with A+ averages....but in the end, ask urself, what can ya do? Belive me, I've had the same thing happen to me.....thinkin that the constant studyin will pay off, only to have the opposite occur...... But really, I've realized that we all can't be Chinese geniuses and I just try to continue on and try not to let it get me down...Why bother lingering in the past....look to the future....and basically, I've told my parents not to get there hopes up too high nowadays .....yes, they're pissed, but TOUGH....this SH*T is hard (hell, even when it's easy it's hard....a contradictary thought you'd think, but for those in UNI, ya know what I mean LOL). In closing, I say, screw it and enjoy your holidays.....i'm sure you've earned it.....Dunno if I have, but hell, I'm enjoyin em newayz haha DEAAAAAATH TO UBC!!!!!!!! (crap....i'll be there in january.......)

Haha, but atleast he won't have to deal with the pressures of petty squabbles and mother-in-laws

And when doing so, please remember the word UNBIASED .....cuz really, that's the only way it'll be taken legitimately....give all the facts and let the people make their own decisions

Ahhhhhh, such idealism could only come from the mouth of a young child. Give her a couple of years.

nice, I gotta admit

that's what I love about these quaint little stories...they're often easier said than done

Yay....Saddam is caught....only a couple of hundred other bloodthirsty US imposed dictators left to topple .......nah, in all seriousness, it's good he'll be brought to justice and all credit goes to the US TROOPS, not the President who sat in the oval office without worries....but with that said, how about actually capturing the person who really needs to be captured: Bin Laden

Cheers to that.....but how about writing a piece on the current state of sikhism.....me thinks you'll have a more difficult time coming up with such positive comments

Conversely, can you please tell me why we're TOLD to THANK God for everything good that happens in our lives, yet if anything BAD happens it's generally considered a result of our own doing??? Is God just a egotistical glory hog then? Please educate my feeble mind y'all Thanks

I got an idea!!!! Lets donate more money to the Gurdwaras!!!!!!! Yep, that'll get the job done for sure....if there's enuff money left over once the president is done buying his palatial 100 acre estate

yep, cuz I got a lot of time for that That's not very practical at all!!

Theoretically speaking, try as you may, you can't live on without causing some sort of harm to any sort of living thing. For instance, you have a list of prohibited foods, but if you check this list, (and provided it's true) you sure as hell can't live without a lotta this stuff. http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Mad_Cow.html sucks to be you hehe

In his best Simpson's Comic Book Shop Owner's Voice: WORST MOVIE EVER!!!!! :wink: Nah, seriously, it was a bad movie. Not very equitable in it's views and just served to trivialize the entire 84 struggle.

This seems like an interesting article.......newayz, I'd like your thoughts and I apologize if this has been posted already.... ____________________________________________________________ Sikh Terrorism: the Struggle of a People INTRODUCTION: Terrorism is the use or threat of violence, especially used for political purposes. The Sikhs, a group that mainly live in the state of Punjab, India has used terrorism as a mode to and a method to speak out against discrimination and oppression and also of advocating their desire for liberation, in one case. THE PROBLEM:Terrorism is defined as the usage, or threat of violence, which is especially used for political purposes. Throughout India’s history, there has been a struggle between the Hindus, who compose the majority of the Indian population, and the Sikhs who compose only about 2 percent. Sikhs also compose 63 percent of the state of Punjab’s population. Sikhism is the youngest of the internationally recognized religions, which join the ranks of: Christians, Muslims, Hindus, and Jews. Guru Nank, who was born in India in 1469, created the belief of Sikhism. He believed: "There is one God. He is the Supreme Truth. He is the creator of the omnipresent. He is eternal and all pervasive. The idea of this religion came to mind when he craved for equilibrium, equanimity, harmony and peace. Later in the year 1699, Guru Gobind Singh founded Sikhism. Through time Sikhs have been "branded" as militant Hindus. This however is not true, for Sikhs as stated before are a separate religion; and as part of the Sikh religion have a mission to: Protects the weak, fight for freedom of religion, and to serve mankind. When the last Guru created Sikhism, he also had created Khalsa the Sikh Nation. Later in the undivided British India, an independent Sikh state was finally annexed in 1848. The Sikhs are an independent people who trace their heritage to the invading army of Alexander the Great over 2000 years ago. The Khalsa, which marked their beginning as a Nation in 1699, lasted as the Sikh Commonwealth from 1730 – 1849, which ruled the area, which is known today as Punjab. They also ruled in parts of Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Kashmir. After the transfer of power from the British government, the Hindu majority violated it solemn and documented assurances given to the Sikhs. At this time, the British government also legally declared the Sikhs as a part of the Hindu religion. The Sikhs feels that being a minority is difficult; and that it is even more difficult with the Indian majority launching deliberate campaigns to discredit their minority. Political parties were allowed to contest elections to the committees that manage the Sikh Shrines. This would be equivalent to have elections to change officials of the church. The elections are managed by the majority Hindu government and the elections are held by it as well. Most Sikhs feel that the single element that has unyieldingly led to the present situation in India is the hostility of the Ary Samaj, a militia Hindu sect that was founded by Swami Sayanand, towards the Sikh religion. The Arya Samaj have been responsible for burning the Sikh scriptures, attacking Sikhs in Haryana and elsewhere and harassing them in other ways. The government of India failed to punish or restrain many looters and arsonists from acting against Sikh places of worship. The city of Chandigarh was built with the sole purpose that it would stand as the capital city for Punjab. Nonetheless, the Indian government insists on retaining control of the city. It is a violation of freedom of worship to expect the Sikh religion to be modified to suit the expectations of members of the Hindu religion. The Sikhs have two separate goals. One goal under Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale and another goal who take a different approach. Bhindranwale and his followers wanted to have Sikh-Hindu unity; while others feel that the best way to deal with the problem is to secede from India and to recreate Khalistan (Khalsa). Bhindranwale was a priest who preached about non-violence, tolerance, self-discipline, and peace. It was-known as early as the summer 1983 that the government wanted to kill Bhindranwale for raising his voice against an authoritarian government authoritarian government meddling in the Sikh's religion. There are several organizations that share the goal of recreating Khalistan. They are: Akali Dal, which is the Main Sikh Party. Also there is, Dashmesh or the 10th Regiment, who are active in India, Western Germany and Canada. Another group is Dal Khalsad, who in 1981 hijacked an Indian Airline flight to Pakistan. Babbar Khalsa, like Dashmesh also operates in India, Western Germany and Canada. Furthermore there is the All India Sikh Students Federation which is the militant student wing of the Main Sikh Party. Other parties include is Azad Khalistan, Khalistan Liberation Force, Khalistan Commando Force, and the Khalistan National Army. In 1957, Sikhs launched a movement for a "Punjabi State," which is a separate province where all people who speak the Punjabi language could enjoy the freedom of preserving and promoting their culture and heritage. The Sikhs have also declared that they are for the Indian Freedom Movement. The Sikhs overtime have been subjected to persecution and many human rights abuses. There have been skirmishes, kidnappings, arbitrary detentions, and other abuses were the committed on the Sikhs. The Fifth Guru was tortured to death in 1606 because, according to the current ruler then, not only Hindus but also many Muslims followed him. In 1919, the British killed 1302 freedom fighters and 799 of which were Sikhs [sikhs Today: Struggle for Human Rights]. 21 Sikhs were killed when the police fired upon a peaceful "Rasta Roko" (stop the traffic) demonstration [The Sikh Problem]. 18 died at the massacre by the police on September 14, 1981 in Chondo-Kalan. 8 were taken off buses and killed by mobs in Haryana. [sikh Terrorism] 8 were killed by the police during a firing outside the Bibi Khan Kaur Gurdwara in Muktsar. According to Bhindranwale, nearly 200 of his men had been tortured to death and over 1000 crippled by torture at the hands of the police. From September 1981 till June 1984, Hundreds of Sikhs were killed in fake "encounters" with the police [The Sikh Problem]. When Bhindranwale was arrested in 1981, the police fired upon and killed 18 of his followers. Several thousands were killed in a few days when over 40 Sikh places of worship were simultaneously invaded by the Indian Army with tanks, artillery, helicopters, gun ship, etc. Tens of thousands of courted arrests peacefully in an attempt to persuade the Indian government. By July 1983, over 340 had been tortured to death. The government of India invaded over 40 Sikh places of worship in June of 1984; none of the places other that the Golden Temple was armed. The Sikhs in defending the Golden Temple were not hoping to overthrow the Indian Government. Their aim was to die fighting in the cause of freedom of religion. The Sikhs challenged the oppressors in courts of law and appealed to higher authorities, including the Chief Minister of Punjab, and other ministers and prominent people, as well as the government of India. The government however did not entertain any complaints of brutality against its law enforcement agencies. Another incident like this is where Sant Harchand Singh Longowal, in a letter to the members of the Indian Parliament in 1983, pleaded for an end to the campaign of ruthless repression against the Sikh young men were being tortured in jail and their unconditional release. But, once again this was on no help. Vicious abuse of the Sikh people including indiscriminate arrests, beatings and torture, and denial of due process of law continues. One reporter for the Christian Science Monitor on 15, 1984 named Nary Anne Weaver described the horror of a police search operation. She wrote: "the pattern in each village appears to be the same. The army moves in during the early evening, cordons a village, and announces over loudspeaker that everyone must come out. All males between the ages 15 and 35 are trussed and blindfolded, then taken away." Since these Army operations began, thousands have disappeared in the Punjab. People have been taken from their homes, tied up and shot. Others have been brutally beaten. Thousands, including children as young as 2 years old have been detained without trial and subjected to inhuman torture. There have been several reports of trains full of dead bodies of Sikhs coming into stations. There have also been gruesome stories of people being set on fire. The government have estimated that about 2000 have died. 1984 was perhaps one of the most violent and unforgettable years in Sikh history. There were large scale accounts of state sponsored terrorism against the Sikhs. Hindu mobs burned places of worship, shops were looted, all while the Indian police force and army looked the other way. In May of 1984, Security forces opened fire at the Golden Temple for 14 hours straight [sikhs Today: Struggle for Human Rights]. Sikh soldiers began abandonment from the Army; civil and foreign service Sikh officials resign in protest. The Army begins "search and destroy" operations in the Punjab. Since then over 60,000 Sikh youths are reported missing. Then on June 6, 1984 was without question, the worst event in Sikh history. Indira Gandhi, the prime minister of India had ordered operation Blue Star, which was an Indian Army attack on the Golden Temple in Amritsar, which killed thousands of Sikh men, women and children who were in the temple for one of the most important religious occasions. The Army destroyed the Akal Takht; the holiest place where holy records and books are kept. The army also took away all jewels and valuables in the temple. This is now marked as the dark day of the Amritsar Massacre. At this same time, 74 Sikh Gurdwaras (places of worship) were also attacked. The Sikhs in immediate retaliation assassinated Indira Gandhi. Throughout the world, not just in India, there have been many cases of terrorism on the part of the Sikhs. The Sikh terrorism is carried out by the several domestic and international groups seeking to establish an independent Sikh state, Khalistan. A violent movement emerged in 1981 when Bhindranwale began preaching of Sikh Fundamentalism and urging the Sikh community in India to pressure the government for an independent Sikh state; some of his followers adopted terrorism as one of their tactics. Later in June 1984, Indian troops stormed the golden temple in Amritsar. Bhindranwale and many of his followers were killed in the exchange. Terrorism within India, ranges from kidnappings and bombings to assassinations, continues at a high level. Sikh violence outside of India is finally declining after the attack in Amritsar. But, there have been regular and bloody attacks against Hindus and against Indian official targets, particular in the Punjab; desecration of Hindu holy places; assassinations; bombings and also aircraft hijackings. A group of Sikhs were responsible for bombing the Air India flight that down over the Atlantic Ocean in June 1985, in which the crew and 329 passengers were killed, and for an explosion at Tokyo airport on the same day, when luggage from a flight from Vancouver blew up and killed two Japanese baggage handlers [sikh Terrorism]. In 1991, Sikh terrorist attempted to assassinate the Indian ambassador in Romania and kidnapped and held the Romanian charge in New Delhi for seven weeks. Sikh advocates of a separate state of Khalistan have since engaged in bombings, sabotage, and indiscriminate murders of numerous government officials and civilians in an effort to keep the Khalistani cause prominent. Apparently, funding for terrorist operations appears to be generated strictly from within the Sikh community in India. The Babbar Khalsa group assassinated the Punjab Chief Minister outside his offices in Chandigarh on August 31, 1996. The Khalistan Liberation Force, claimed responsibility for the bombing of 3 civilian targets in New Delhi and Panjpit on September 21, 1996. Indian authorities suspect that the same Sikh group is responsible for a bombing in New Delhi on November 21, 1996 [1995-1996 Patterns of Global Terrorism]. Peace once again was shattered on August 31, 1995 when Beant Singh, Punjabs chief-minister – the man who had crossed terrorism and restored normality after a decade of violence, was killed. It is said that the military group, the Babbar Khalsa, assassinated Prime Minister Singh. ATTEMPTED SOLUTIONS: Solution 1) Informative Pamphlets about the Sikhs A series of pamphlets intended to discuss topics of analysis of Punjab elections; India’s deceitful foreign policy and the suppression of civil liberties in India, was created by World Sikh Organization which is directed by Ganga Singh Dhillon which started on November 15, 1985. The Sikh Cultural Society (SCS) of Richmond Hill, NY came forward to provide the funds for printing and distribution of these pamphlets. The purpose is to inform and educate the American public opinion, and to show that it is not the responsibility of some Sikhs, but of all Sikhs. This was quite effective in informing the American public, or to those interested in the matter. This is not effective though if this does not circulate to the U.S. department of foreign relations of to the United Nations. If the United Nations could get involved, perhaps the problem could be solved. Solution 2) Declaration of Sikh Recognition In 1929-1930, Mohondas K. Gandhi and Pandit Jawaharia Nehru had declared that Sikhs would be treated as a distinct separate entity and no Indian constitution would be approved without the participation and endorsement of the Sikhs. This was effective for the term that it lasted, in that it allowed the Sikhs to live by rules that they agreed to. This however was not effective because it soon lost value and Sikhs continued to become subjected to many different abuses. Solution 3) Sikh’s Appeal to the Government of India The Sikhs challenged the oppressors in courts of law and appealed with complaints of brutality of the law enforcement agencies, to authorities including the Chief Minister of Punjab, other ministers and prominent people, and the Government of India. This appeal though attempted, was not effective against the government. This did not work because due to the state of terrorism and other factors the government had not done a thing. Solutions 4) A Letter of Plead to the Parliament Sant Harchand Singh Longowal, in a letter to the members of the Indian Parliament in 1983, pleaded for an end to the campaign of ruthless repression against the Sikh young men who were being tortured in jail and their unconditional release. This like the previous solution was also not effective. This plead had no effect on the Parliament and was not effective, because much of the Sikhs were in malicious activity and the government did not want to negotiate with a party that is not willing to abate. Solutions 5) India-Egypt Anti-Terrorism Agreement India has recently signed an intelligence-sharing agreement with Egypt to combat international terrorism and organized crime. This would focus on decreasing all terrorist activities by working together to solve the problems. This was effective because it took the war against terrorism to a more regional scale instead of within a single country. This made it more stable and reliable. The two countries could rely on one another. This was ineffective because it will focus more on general terrorism, while not really focusing on problems of smaller magnitudes. Solution 6) Creation of International Organizations to Deal with Sikh Problems The Sikh's have created several international organizations that deal with Sikh problems overseas. The most renowned organizations are the World Sikh Organization and the International Sikh Youth Federation. They focus on disputes and problems that the Sikhs must deal with and encounter. By creating these, Sikhs can have a better, more organized, less violent method of achieving their goals. They could deal with organizations outside of India and make the problem more known. Having people more informed of the problem could help them solve more of the problems. Rejection of these organizations could possibly cause the Sikhs to be enraged and could spur on more terrorist activities. PROPOSED SOLUTIONS: Solution 1) Peace Agreement with the United Nations The United Nations should intervene on the matter and let two leaders representing The Sikhs and India talk over the matters. They could discuss letting the Sikhs have there own province or country were they could prosper on their own and embellish their culture. By doing this, it would ensure agreement because India would respect the UN and they would realize that this would be the fairest way of deciding what to do with the matter. On the other hand, India could totally deny the UN rights to intervene because this is already dealt with within the constitution. This would cause Sikh temperament to become worse. This meeting could easily take place. The UN could meet in India and establish peace talks between the leaders of the parties. Solutions 2) Positive Promotions of India’s Different Groups One way to have more people accept one another would be to promote the different groups around India. Through the media, they would tell more of positive matters between and of the minority and the majority groups of India. This would have everyone be more accepting of surrounding religions such as: Islam, Sikhism, and Jainism. Promoting this would greatly decrease terrorism. It would open people’s horizons of all the different groups. The only problem that this could have is the financial support for this. This can be financed by the UN other countries. They would help pay for all the changes in tone of the media.

Just wanted to take a poll of how many people went to any of the Khalsa School's situated in NA or the UK. Here it goes: Khalsa School Surrey, Grades 5-10 (I'm in 2nd year Uni now) Anymore?.........

God I'm dyslexic.....when I read this, I thought it said "Babies BLOWING Up the GGS" :shock: :shock: (I'm not trying to be insulting, I actually thought that's what it said for a second :?)