Lucky

No, but he contributed and portrayed the images of sikhi in positive lights with some of his mainstream dharmik productions. He had the gift of expressing sikhi in the music regardless if he was amritdhari or not. Very few artists can give you something that you FEEL as well as hear. It's when you hear people say ''that he sings from his heart.'' It's all in the god given voice and breath. There's only a handful of artists that can do this, and they are the one's that survive the longest in the industry. You will always remember the dharmik song and message mostly, and not the artist. There is a lot of groundbreaking dharmik material by old UK artists like Bhujangy group, which I always enjoy listening to along with some of the shabads and kirtan they produced. These guys weren't amritdhari, but they had the gifts of expressing guru's words. Sadly, these gems of music are very difficult to locate unless you have the LP's from 70's/80's. Luckily, i have been able to digitize my own copies of whatever I could get my hands on.

What the Hell ????? Sadly, Jonny jee, the way you foresee these issues, seems to be correct. The Guru's were inspired by some of the works of sufis, but they didn't encourage us to embrace te whole lifestyle and dharm further. I mean, Hans raj hans gave us that wonderful ''patha patha singhan da vairi'', a whole album that every household had at the time and I still keep in the car. If someone told me back then in the early 90's that this guy is gonna be a full muslim or is already a 'SID'(sulah in disguise!). Then I probably would have smacked them on the face ! I say again..........''What the hell'' ????

Look Dalsingh, You may feel they never had khalsa spirit, but the FACT is they were sardars, proudly wearing their dastaars. They went into battle every time with 'bole so nihal......'' and especially in WW1, they took hukamnamas and carried Guru Granth sahib saroops with them. The exchanging of dastaars, showed how they were more honoured to be sardars and sikhs of the guru than the flags they may have been on battlegrounds for. A sacrifice is a sacrifice, and I don't think that us no-doers, should sit back and start categorizing them into spirits of khalsa or not. Like I said, I'm sure that my grandfather would not have been amused hearing a degrading sardar joke. Well explained ! As you say we see blacks calling each other nigga. I've also heard Koreans over here say ''zipper head'' to each other.( For those of u not aware, ''zipper head'' was a very offensive term coined by US during the korean war) With so many different cultures over here, you realise other terms used in same manners like Chinks/ japs calling an americanised yellow dude- ''BANANA'' then if the same chink/jap acts and dresses like a black hip hop dude they say ''BRUISED BANANA'' or even "PEELED BANANA"" for chink/jap acting like pure white man. I'm sure there is many more in other parts of the world that I haven't heard !..

Listen guys, this whole sardar joke thing got me thinking a little. Sometimes we don't realize what we are doing or to whom we may be giving some contribution to, until we contemplate it further. I have also realized that the perception of jokes across the continents changes quite a bit. Me being a born n bred Brit, and like other Brits on here (Dalsingh & Sat), we have that room for the 'in your face' english humor. I think the Brits have always poked fun at other races like the Irish jokes, the pakis, the nigger jokes, jew jokes...etc... and you learn to accept them as the way the humor works in UK. Being over here, on the far west coast, i soon discovered that their sense of humor was much different to mine back in UK. There are many english jokes that I just couldn't tell to people here, because I learned that they find them offensive, if not directly to themselves, then maybe someone in society. For eg. if I gave some crazy hardcore Irish joke, then I would probably get the reply that my aunt/uncle/father was irish.......or something along the lines of ''we didn't like that'' On the other hand, I find the American humor very very bland. I will hear the listeners in stitches and shouting ''awesome'...but to me, it's actually pretty crap ! Maybe, because i have been so accustomed to the extreme, in your face, offensive british jokes ? But I find no humor in their tv shows and radio, and Dalsingh and Sat won't believe that most americans/canadians won't find ''Only fools and Horses'' as funny as we do !!!!.......I mean, I have never known a single Brit who has never laughed in one of their episodes ! Anyway, getting back to the santa banta sardar issue, I have actually realised the seriousness and motives behind these...... ...YES....... i've done an overnight U-turn, and I won't EVER find them amusing again ! Have a look at this video below that first got me thinking. And then I will explain how it influenced me along with the other posts on here- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpYamk8V5Qw&feature=player_detailpage It's made me feel that if I join the sardar joke humor, then I'm contributing to those dark inner motives of the people behind them. I'm actually a nobody and have only ever stayed on punjabi land for 3 weeks in my entire life. But my Grandfather was a Sikh army veteran in the 11th regiment of British Army. He passed away a few years ago, but I still remember the way he used to give me some war descriptions and stories, that would fascinate me as a young kid. These sikh soldiers ALL wore turbans and refused helmets completely. He said it was a sign of defeat and anti-khalsa. I remember my grandfather telling me that the MOST difficult thing wasn't the fighting, but it was being on the battleground with your close friends and colleagues beside you and you witness them getting taken down. He said it was most difficult to have to just walk beside them while they lay wounded and dead to find safer ground whilst trying to avoid cross-fire. Some of them had already told him to move on as per their movement strategy before they went down and had insisted not trying to carry their wounded bodies. He said there were moments when he was helpless and just had to move past their bodies with the rest of the force according to command. I can recall that on two or more occasions, he had encountered this devastating scenario of watching his colleague die and get shot down right beside him. The only way he could pay some respect and show some dignity was by exchanging the dastaars like a true sardar, during those last few seconds or after they had breathed their last breaths. He would have shared many days and nights with these fellow soldiers and I know that I wouldn't have the guts to be in such positions. I was probably around 9 yrs age at the time, but even then I could sense the emotions that he had when picturing these scenes. To witness these kind of sacrifices changes the complete emotional outlook that the war veterans have.This is why they are so rigid, tough,disciplined, hard natured, but at the same time they have the utmost loyalty. I'm sure that we can ALL agree that if a sardar veteran like my grandfather was here today, then they would NEVER laugh or find any humour in these jokes. And I probably feel guilt of shame if my grandfather knew that i was amused with giggles to some sardar degrading jokes. We should NEVER forget what our forefathers have done to uphold the honour of the dastaar that makes one a sardar.

My ultimate goal is to make it to the highest stage after death. This can be called the abode of sachkhand or basically where just the complete truth or SAT resides. It's the place of complete immersion, where no identity of this imaginery self remains. My current understanding at the moment is that, it is the abode or plane that is way above and past all other realms. Some may want to have darshan of saints, bhagats, angels, gurus, jesus.....whoever on the other planes, but these are not what i think are extremely higher mukhti attainments, because identity can still remain and some levels of dualism may well be present, but they don't necessarily affect you like the dualism here in this world. It's further than the descriptions of heavens, further than the courts of dharmraj, further than the places where your lekha and karma accounts are kept, further than any glorious descriptions.........you could perhaps call it the 'COMPLETE MERGE' or The highest status of gurmukh. I am also starting to believe more and more firmly, that bhagti MUST be done to bypass all the other heavens/planes/realms to get DIRECTLY to Ek Onkar Satguru It's a long long way,because I have got to seriously work at and try experience 'jivan mukhti' whilst i breathe on this planet. We just shouldn't waste any time ! (I even feel a little guilty just talking about it like a desire, because I should be doing some bhagti at this very moment in my own space )

Yes, good book that one, but i haven't actually read all of it. (I very rarely read any books cover to cover, but I just try and find what i'm looking for usually) There is much more material out there about the hidden mystic and esoteric layers of the bible. The above you noted about the brain hemispheres is something I only picked up recently. It was when Sat and myself were trying to confirm and find out about why the anhad sound current should be on the right side. I realized that the bible mentions this a hell of a lot, but the message doesn't get recognized. The Left is referred to the West as well, which means more worldly/desires/self gain..etc.. whereas the RIGHT is also mentioned as EAST is about the side associated with Spirituality and God conscious. Interestingly, I can't remember which one's, there are some famous paintings by da vinci or raphael..et.al that show things like divine dove whispering in the right ear or madonna listening and speaking to baby in right ear There is also a famous Jesus parable about goats and sheep getting separated on a field and the sheep on the right lend up in heaven whereas the goats on the left don't. The metaphor is that the farmers instructions were the same to both sheep and goats and it points that the ONE's LISTENING on the Right, will embrace the divine !

I have to agree here. Yes, I also firmly believe that a lot of the bible is actually in line with what we follow as per gurmat. It's just the ways that it has been interpreted and mistranslated over the years, especially when it comes to the metaphors used. I shall give a little brief and idea of what I have learned throughout my life and how I discovered the overlaps once i started learning deep sikhi later on in life. For me, my first introduction to God or religion was all about the bible, since i was born and raised in old school 'white man' UK at school. Those days, singing hymns, bible prayers, bible study..etc.. was mandatory in most british schools, we even had to carry our own little red mini bibles in our blazer pockets at all times, unless you wanted detention! It wasn't so bad, but those generations (60's,70's) just quietly got on humbly with whatever needed to be done. Well, could say after all the queen is the 'Head of the Church of England' !, and my grandparents chose to come there and we had to try and fit in as the extreme minorities we were. With the metaphoric/mystic meanings of the bible, I can briefly say that- For eg. there was no real Adam and Eve, but it talks about Adam being made in the image of God himself. This is the image of his formless consciousness. Then further it mentions that God clothed Adam with some skin, which gets interpreted as God gave clothes of animal skin to cover Adam.....This is actually about God giving a layer of skin to this very consciousness or soul that is itself a small fragment of God's image himself. Then we have duality of Eve or wo-man coming from Adam's chest. This is the duality/opposite of the same image of man being created... Also, we have the serpent and eating the forbidden fruit from a tree. In my personal opinion, this is also a Very strong metaphor because the Tree references are to a "Tree of knowledge'' that provides all the gyan to realise God and then there is the ''Tree of the Mind'', which of course is the tree that we get TEMPTED to eat from,the tree with Kaal's influence, the 5 dhuts, the worldly maya. (tree of knowledge is popular in quite a few other faiths like kaballah, jews...) It's also no surprise that I believe the Serpent itself is a metaphor for MAYA. EVEN in gurbani, there are numerous mentions of Maya the serpent. This Maya wraps and coils it's body around you, just like a snake does. And when one tries to fight and free themselves from the snake... what happens ??? .... The snake just continues to grip even more tighter, virtually making the stranglehold very difficult to escape from. MAYA does exactly the same thing in wrapping around you and making you dance around !! Jesus references to ''wine'' is actually amrit rus, but you have to look at the context of the specific bible quote to understand it. I remember at school, i was always confused since we were taught about not abusing your body and Jesus quotes ''that the body IS your temple and within is the doorway and entrance", so the RE teachers would hammer in that liquor,drugs, substances should not be used to abuse the body. But as an 8 yr old, I could never understand why all the talk about wine ??? When I read into some of them some time ago, I concluded that it was amrit rus/ divine nectar from within. Jesus mentions the temple, which is 'Ghar' within. Resurrection is about resurrecting the soul and going back to your mool.- it's not about forming some earthly church. Jesus calming the turbulent sea(story) is about what we call the bhavsagar within, and how to keep it calm to cross it. Jesus washed his 12 disciples feet and he went to John the baptist to get baptised ! John's quotes about 'The word' are what we call 'The shabad' ........ There are many more and even in the old testament,, the classic Noah's Ark is not about some world flood, but it's about meditation like Guru Nanak ji prescribes to wash the MIND at amrit vela. In greek mythology, there is also 5 levels of consciousness, that we can raise our vibrations through by meditation. these are of course,,the same 5 elements in gurbani and exactly what is described in sukhmani sahib 1-Earth Dharti Tat (earth element): As we need light to go through darkness; so we need light of Gur Sabad to see our way through the darkness of this earth element within. Gurbani says: JIH PAINDAI MAHAA ANDH GUBAARA || HAR KA NAAM SANG UJEEAARAA || Gaoree Sukhmani Mahalaa –5 (ang 264) 2-Water- which was always symbol of truth and why it is used in all different faith baptisms. t: As a boat is needed to cross a river; so, is the Gurshabad needed to ferry mind across the water element within this body. Gurbani says: JIO PAAKHAAN NAAV CHARH TARAI PRAANEE GUR CHARAN LAGAT NISTARAI 3-Air- by controlling and rising above your own pavan/breathing you are able to separate from thoughts.(also the balance through central sushmana) Guru Ji tells us how to concentrate the mind and transcend this element. The atmospheric air sometimes flows gentle and is at other times fast and stormy. The Paon Tat (the air element) within the body behaves the same way. Its flow rises and ebbs. The unsteady behavior of air disturbs our mental equilibrium. We need Gur Sabad to steady and focus our mind in the vortex of wind within. Gurbani elaborates: JIO MANDIR KO THAAMAI THAMAN || TIO GUR KAA SABAD MANAH ASTHAMAN || 4-Fire- a higher realm of spirit.The purer warming affect of the sun heat/ sustaining the whole world. To protect ourselves from the atmospheric heat, we seek shelter in the shade. We do have the element of fire within the body. Gurshabad provides shady shelter to our mind and protects it from the heat of the fire within. Gurbani says: JAH MAHAA BHA-I-AAN TAPTE BAHU GHAAM || TAH HAR KE NAAM KEE TUM OOPAR CHHAAM || 5-AKASH- greeks also called this the void space or the renewed mind where the shabad manifests in purest form, after hearing all the above type sounds. The Noah story is about the stage of water purifying and crossing over the stormy bhavsagar. The EARTH(1st stage) is taken into the water to be able to see it in purer form.- the begining of need for GURU to take you from dark to light. In Noah's story this is the flood, where the earth conscious gets submerged in water (2nd stage) NOTE- that water is also representing the Truth or Sat, and bathing/submerging in this is the ultimate cleanse. Then in the 2nd level of meditation, the consciousness rises towards the Air(3rd stage). In Noah's story, the ark rises to the mountain top in the flood, where the air can be breathed ! Once up in the air by mountain top, the ark is touched and dried/purified by the fire (4th stage) What results in the end is the ark being in the newly renewed mind space/void, where nothing except the primordial shabad is present. The 7 people on the ark represent the 7 chakras. This ARK is actually all in the mind. If you read the story now, you will see it in a completely different light that will make much more sense with gurmat. So now, we are all wondering what the hell were the 2 of each animals about ?? ANS- All about Duality. We live in the world of opposites and it is part of our human psyche that we have this own battle within of the dualities. The right from wrong, the positive and negative, the can and can't do, the love and hate....................etc We have this continuous battle of dualities within because our 'Animal Instincts' tempt us to follow the negatives and wrongs, the cravings, the lusts, the thoughts, the desires.....etc. We can't escape from them, but we have to take them with us in the Ark. Thus, when the Mind Ark rises to the mountain top and we have cleansed and renewed within, the lower animal instincts are still present BUT we have risen to the mountain top and are now ABOVE them. As in Gurbani, we have to be the lotus that floats above on top of the world ocean, yet still be in the proximity of the 5 dhuts and maya below ! Take the 2 by 2 animals is the instruction to NOT become recluses like siddha/old yogis and renounce from the maya world. The story is saying that you just need to RISE ABOVE THEM and have to take these animal instincts of opposing natures within you on your internal journey to rise above the mountains. With reference to the Devil issue of the OP. I think it's been pretty much answered. The Devil is a creation of GOD just like Kaal. It only has power where there are dualities, therefore rise above and meditate and you shall be free from those devil dhuts.

Don't get me wrong. The songs are good with some strength in the lyrics and composition. Problem nowadays is these videos. A lot of the time, I will actually avoid the video for the very reason that it ruins the essence of the song. However, my point was in regards to the image of the pagh being portrayed in this case and the whole sufi image thing going on. I am a very firm believer that powerful songs by powerful artists can help change the direction of youth in many cases. Sadly, the industry is such that everyone has to market a video with every track as this is the only way of advertising and surviving. If you listen to some old tracks without any videos, they become more like the art that music is, since it should leave impressions on your imagination. (I used to be involved quite a bit with the music industry and this was just one of the many reasons to why i got out!) Don't get put off in exposing or bringing forward other music and artists. It's good to keep updated in this manner because nowadays I wouldn't be bothered to go and look for who's the latest, which producer is it or which label it is..,,,, So...keep them coming, by all means....Thanks

My understanding is that KAAL is limited here as he/it/the force is 'time' bound. AKAAL is the ek onkaar. We are in a realm of dualities. But the problem is that a lot of us can't completely grasp what dualities are. The sant mat/ radhsoami explanation of negative or opposing force is pretty good, but it is still confined to this realm. Maybe an easier way of trying to understand dualities is to think of everything as having opposites. (opposites like good-bad, right-wrong, dukh-sukh, birth-death, big-small, rich-poor, wet/water-dry/land...etc....).. it's ALL opposites in our existence Kaal isn't the opposite of God, but kaal is still his creation, that does a very good job in making US move in the opposing direction of God Consciousness. Kaal's influence is towards the opposites of all the negativites of dualities. Detaching from maya and naam simran can take you out of the confines of Kaal's limitations. In fact, Kaal cannot have any affect on individual conscious/soul development/learning. That's why a sikh-learner is to learn/develop and then Realise the Lord God. This is when sikh becomes gurmukh. Bani tells us repeatedly that Gurmukh is untouchable by any negatives or kaal. Sikhs we are, Learn we must, develop we should, and climb that ladder of spirituality of which the rungs are completely away from Kaal's reach. It is this ladder where satguru put his hand down to us to help lift us.

I agree ! Music industry has a huge influence on youth and they should pay attention to the images being portrayed. I think you are bang on, as they are trying to come across as mystic sufis. It feeds the wrong ideas to younger sikh youth who just may get influenced more to sikhi with some songs, which is what the idea should be behind these songs. In the west, the idea is always ''If it's not broken, then don't fix it '' However, with indians and punjabis it's more like '' If it's NOT broken, then Break it '' and we always seem to to a good job in breaking and ruining anything genuine.

I always carry cash n change in my back pocket, -this explains why I have a big ass!

It's a test to see if we judge someone from the car they travel in !

I don't think that one should just plainly deny it, if they don't get it ! I mean seriously, does it corrupt us or can it teach us?

My Understanding of saas graas and saas saas simran It's important to try and understand what Swaas graas and swaas swaas is firstly. But even more importantly, we should understand a little about what baikhri, madhma, pasant and para mean. For these explanations, we have some very good info in one post that has been displayed on a number of threads and below is just one thread that you can access this same info for reference. NOTE- just to simplify......... Baikhri- is doing jap loudly Madhma- is quietly, like whisper. Pasant- is silent jap, where there is no sound out from mouth. Para- is more further, when YOU are not making the effort to say, but waheguru himself is speaking-This borders/overlaps on further to anhad and rom rom (auto mode) Before we even attempt rom rom, we have to SET the saas graas and saas saas as primary foundations. I know there can be a lot of confusion between the two, and I never quite understood the difference for a long time. But from what I gather and the approach I made, I believe it to be as described below (in brief) Saas Graas This is done using gurmantar with BOTH breaths. 1) Breath in is ''Wahe'' along with slight pull of navel in. 2) Breath out is ''Guru'' along with relaxing of navel(comes back outwards) In between (1) and (2), is an important space of silence or void, that one should try and maintain each breath in and out. This should be a space of no thoughts in between, but you still have your dhyan there ! So, in effect it will sound like-... 1- inhale ''wahe'' 2- HOLD, and then 3- exhale ''Guru'' It should appear as.......Wahe...silence...Guru, ...Wahe...silence...Guru, ...Wahe...silence...Guru, ...etc.... Practice, practice, practice ...until you are doing this until you can bring ALL thoughts just down to One single thought,and then none ! then next you move onto- Saas Saas- 1st STAGE Again, the same gurmantar and breathing technique used, BUT only step 1) from above, while inhaling WITHOUT saying 'wahe' with tongue ! so,...... 1) Inhale in with SILENT internal 'wahe' with breath and navel inwards 2) Exhale with 'Guru' out and relaxing navel outwards. Therefore, you are doing the same as saas graas, but the only sound from tongue should be ''Guru' coming out on exhale, but the gaps, pace and lengths would be the same as if you were saying the 'wahe' as well. In effect, it will sound like...- 1- Breathe in, (no sound except of breath) 2- Hold for a second 3- Breathe out with 'Guru' sound. repeat. It should appear as ..Inhale.. silence... 'Guru', .. Inhale..silence...Guru', ..Inhale..silence..'Guru'...etc. Practice, practice and practice.. Again make the goal of killing the thoughts and using that void of silence to help steady mind. 2nd STAGE Eventually you want to get to just doing the breathing without any slight tongue movements. ie. ... breathe in..slight hold...breath out..... and while doing this you are silently japping Wahe-(in) and Guru-(out) by mentally incorporating the gurmanter in every saas.........this is Saas Saas simran. The 1st stage was a build up the 2nd stage where there should only be the sound of Breath in and Breath out now (only hear the saas) and the gurmantar is actually in your breath and you can hear it yourself but there is no tongue/sound making movement. Therfore, you will hear it, but others will only hear your rhythmic breathing. Personally, I think it is easier to always start with saas graas and then progress to saas saas, in every simran session. Whist also going from baikri to pasant/silent jap. With time, you will find you start going deeper and deeper whilst listening to the gurmantar. The other key is to listen,listen and listen. What I have given above is just the way that I was doing it after researching and reading from all other sources. Everyone can vary it slightly to suit their needs in order to help them get rid of the thoughts and HOLD that mind there. Once you really start listening to the jap and it starts embedding itself within you, then with Waheguru's kirpa, you shall start hearing the anhad/naad/primordial/celestial sounds or Waheguru's voice itself ! Please don't take the above as official simran rules or anything, because they are just my own final conclusions of what I ended up doing in the end after playing about with all sorts of other jugtees and techniques. They may be of some help to some to some of you who are going around in circles trying to settle in that little comfort zone where you feel some decent progress.

I think that one should do as much mental and silent jap as possible, with the sounds in the background. Then you get to a stage where you make the mental adjustment to focus on the sound more, while at the same time, the silent jap is still happening. Correlating the jap with breath and keeping your focus there to start with, is probably the easiest way to master this. 1st)- Get regular jap going- normal vocal, whisper, slight whisper to Silent.-OR -sometimes you may be ale to go straight into silent without doing any vocal or whisper. 2)-Then, keep focus on breath, whilst keeping mental jap going by doing ''wahe' on inhale and ''Guru'' on exhale. 3)- Make the breaths equal and try and keep that empty pause in between as Sat describes above. This is when the naad should begin to be heard more clearer and louder. 4) Slow down the breath and imagine as if you are trying to go deep inside your own chest and heart. 5) Try and maintain this whilst listening to the shabad and you should find that the breathing gets quieter and quieter, while the breaths get longer. 6) Just keep trying to get inwards, deeper and deeper until you feel completely formless. Absolute stillness and quietness is the key, whilst sitting comfortably. Once I got settled and familiar in this method, I started trying to focus in between eyebrows, mental jap and listening to dhun at the same time !....But, I'm not sure if this was right approach or not, but it seemed like the appropriate route to take at the time.

I totally agree about staying within our gurmat guidelines and being careful not to stray. There were in the past many yogis that saw yoga as more of a Physical system of suppression/manouvres with a Spiritual component. Whereas, nowadays it is much more of a Spiritual system with a Physical component. As some of you may be aware, I have been practicing kundalini yoga for nearly a year now. I am NOT trying to sell this science to anyone, but it has definitely had a positive impact on me. I find that it is an art of extending spiritual devotion into physical discipline. Done properly, it clears the mind, heightens awareness, strengthen the spine and body, teaches stamina and endurance, and Yes, it can give a feeling of Transcendent joy and spiritual ecstasy that I can't describe in words. On the 2 nights that I come back from classes, I always have the most intense and positively deeper simran sessions where i feel a closer connection. It's most likely because the 90 minute classes leave me with a very positive, vibrating and stronger aura that also helps enhance my own inner heights. I can only say that the yoga, kriyas and meditation combinations we do in class, all contribute to these very rewarding factors. Like I said, I am not a salesman trying to sell this science to any of you, but rather encouraging us to be willing to contemplate higher ways of doing things without dismissing them out of hand because of preconceived notions that may not be true. We know blind faith and empty practices are not gurmat but we have this habit of carrying these same ideas into any other associated practices. In the midst of our everyday lives, we are busy with work,family,kids...etc.. and some of us find it difficult to combine spiritual gurmat devotion with other functions in day to day life. In this worldly setting, I find that we all have plenty of room and time for more holiness and reaching higher heights, so I don't find anything manmat about doing a physical activity for general wellbeing that can leave me feeing much more elevated on a sacred scale. We are repeatedly reminded that we should try and keep the company of the sadh sangat in day to day settings. This 'sadh sangat' doesn't necessarily mean the company of the holy or the sangat in guru ghar. For me, it's the company of those who can help inspire to enhance our own inner development. OR quite simply, the people that can help bring out the best in yourself! Personally, my kundlaini yoga sessions are just one of my role players of sangat that help my own development and I only desire to continue pursuing them.

I also seem to be coming across more and more gurbani that is speaking to me about the anhad dhun/shabad/naad. Especially Guru Nanak and bhagat Kabirji's. There seems to be striking messages there, that I never quite picked up before ! meditation is in the music, and knowledge is in meditation. Become Gurmukh, and speak the Unspoken Speech. ||3|| Dhun meh Dhi-aan Dhi-aan meh jaani-aa gurmukh akath kahaanee. ||3|| ang 59 Know that from the vibration of the Word, we obtain spiritual wisdom and meditation. Through it, we speak the Unspoken. gi-aan Dhi-aan Dhun jaanee-ai akath kahaavai so-ay ang360 One who has obtained the Ambrosial Naam, the Name of the Immaculate Lord - his body enjoys the pleasure of spiritual wisdom. ||1||Pause|| amrit naam niranjan paa-i-aa gi-aan kaa-i-aa ras bhogaN. ||1|| rahaa-o ang1061 The musical instruments of the body vibrate and resound. baajeh baajay Dhun aakaaraa.

I think I may have mentioned that previously on here ? But, I know that I always described it as 'chaainey' chanakhing continuously without any pauses in between. They happened quite a few times and carried on for ages, even after I opened my eyes and closed again ! Not been encountered recently though. Some sounds are experienced just a handful of times, but some others like drums(many hundreds of them), thundering, continuous bell...have occurred much more frequently. Seems to more subtle sounds lately and even some melodies that I just can't explain or describe... They have sounded quite rhythmic with voices in some foreign/alien/unexplained language ! I first heard lot's of these unrecognizable voices that you just can't replicate. At the time, I actually got a little scared/worried that I was stepping out of gurmat territory. I later learned that part of the journey involves us passing through the other realms and worlds, and that it is part of the journey to Waheguru. I don't think anyone should go try and look for these different sounds or encounters of other realms, because they just happen when you don't realize or expect anything. Most of the time, they probably occur in the background for quite a while before you actually realise them..... I remember a few times that my focus was just in waheguru silent jap and being thought free, whilst some sound was happening for quite a few minutes that I didn't notice or acknowledge. Then, it was only when I stepped out a little, that I realised ''That was the sound of ..xxxx.....happening just then!!''

Wow !..... ... I never actually associated that with a horn sound, although i have encountered it in the background on numerous occasions ! I know we have the worldly descriptions to describe theses sounds but in reality you can only associate them if you step away from them and then try and link them. I have mentioned the 'binaural sounds' a few times previously, and I'm certain there is a link between how they function on the brain in deep meditative states and how they can help align your chakras. The anhad naad, I believe have to be followed and listened to in order to align these same chakras and help one to higher states. I believe that the naad are also binaural(which means different beat frequency in each ear) and that they help one get into even further deeper meditative states. However, one has to first get into very deeper states to start experiencing the naad in the first instance ! An important point to make is that one should NOT try to increase their vibrational energies by listening to these binaural technologies alone!... Since this is the same kind of Non-gurmat practices as some sadhus practiced back in the day. We should only attempt with naam simran alone and not occult alternatives.

On the contrary, you will find that people who may use sophisticated english, whilst practicing etiquette in everyday work life, actually try to keep things simple on forums, info websites, conversation/chat media....etc... I agree that tisapanth is trying to be a ''wannabe'' with the use of big words that end up leaving the whole sentence incomprehensible. This ends up coming across as jargon, as in the example above (by lazy sevadaar), that makes no sense in conversation. Substituting words from thesaurus does NOT work when you start using more than one or two substitutions per sentence.

Both of these books were the first one's I read some time back and well before any anhad experiences. However, the dasam duar book left me confused since it differentiated between yogic sounds and gurmat sounds???? Now, that I do kundalini yoga, i perceive things much differently. For quite some time my preconceived ideas about this whole sound/light matter were off tangent to the reality The bandginama is a good book and covers most areas but doesn't go into too much details of jugtiees, techniques..etc.-which is probably why I never went back to it again. He has outlined the stages of simran and i deduce that I'm running around somewhere on the 2nd stage, although not in any solid order. It's these stages that sometimes also confuse me, because at times I feel like that everything should be done in sequence and then other times I feel that I should proceed according to where I feel my ''personal comfort zone'' is. They say that our thoughts are defined as either ''sequential' or 'cluster ' thoughts. Majority are usually sequential where we get a thought because one had led to the other,, such as....We may think about an old friend because we had once watched some movie with them and then that particular movie got mentioned and we remembered the time when we watched it, and this leads to us thinking about that person, his family,his wedding..etc... OR.... we start thinking about some one, some event every time we have a certain food, just because it triggers a certain event in the past where this food was being made or eaten...etc.....etc...-I think you get the idea ? These are more than 80% of our thoughts that our mind initiates and processes itself following some worldly action. On the other hand, 'Cluster' thoughts are just random, out of nowhere thoughts that fly in from all angles. They say that these thoughts should be paid attention to since it is the subconscious or divine letting you know something ?? All the greats/enlightened one's like Einstein, Pythagoras et al ....had massive percentages of cluster thoughts. Anyway, I have recently noticed that i seem to be getting more and more cluster thoughts every day, but i'm not getting any smarter ! Maybe, it's the deep meditation and being more aware in the moment when going inwards? I'm not trying to go off topic, but I think that if you take notice of some of these cluster thoughts then you may know what step to take next and whether it is the appropriate one for you. I think at this 2nd stage of simran, there is no direct sequence of if you taste amrit ras first, then hear anhad naad, hear different melodies, be capable of ajapa jap, feel intense electrifying unexplainable anand,..vibrations around chakras...etc....etc.. I reckon they all happen in your own personal customised clusters or sequences by HIS kirpa and grace. This is unlike the 1st stage where steps are taken in sequence with the jugtees that suit you like starting with baikhri jap,then madhma,.pasanti,..silent mental jap..etc..etc..

In all honesty, I personally feel it has had the opposite effect to a road block ! It has made me realise that i have a very long way to still go and there is so much more. As an idea, I feel it is ONLY a fraction (1/10th) of the complete journey to sachkhand. The only thing that can worry me at times is that I may feel that everyone thinks I'm becoming introverted and detached. But I am far from that because I feel much more in touch and attached with REALITY.

Below is some info on ajapa jap, which has made me pursue this approach whilst hearing the anhad naad. It has also been referenced in some very early posts below http://www.sikhawareness.com/index.php/topic/7613-ajapa-jaap/ AJAPA JAAP (continuous repetition of Naam/ Waheguru) is the spiritual condition of a person when the Simran (repitition of Waheguru) goes on an auto pilot mode in your Surat (mind) and in your Hirdey (heart) as explained below. It means that Simran becomes a round the clock thing inside you, Simran doesn’t stop at any moment, it carries on and such a condition comes with Gurkirpa (God/ the guru’s blessing) and after a lot of Bhagti Kamai(meditation) or can also be attained with the Kirpa (blessings) of a Puran Braham Gyani(ascended master). The experiences of bliss follow a path such as this: 1. Jaap (repetition) with Tounge – Rasna – this happens in Dharam Khand 2. Jaap with the breathing – with Swaas – this happens in Gyan Khand and Saram Khand 3. Then Naam (waheguru) goes into your mind – Surat, in your thinking, then it becomes Simran from Jaap – this is a very good stage – this happens in Saram Khand and Karam Khand. (silent jap with anhad naad begins) 4. The next stage is when Simran goes into Hirdey – this one is even much higher stage when Naam goes into Hirdey – this is where it goes on an automatic mode, this is where the real bhagti(meditation) starts. (this is the auto Ajapa jap as mentioned ) 5. The next stage is when Simran travels to the Nabhi, when Nabhi Kamal(lotus)blossoms – Karam Khand 6. The next Stage is when Simran goes into Kundlini – Mooladhaar Chakkar and spine – Karam Khand 7. The next stage is when Simran travels through the spine to the brain, and back to Surat where it completes the cycle. This is what the real Mala (rosary) of Naam (meditation) is. When this happens then the Gyan Netter and Dassam Duaar (10th Gate) opens and you form a permanent connection with Akal Purakh (God), you start to receive divine knowledge – “Braham Gyan”.- This happens in Sach Khand. Enjoyment – Anand in Smadhi and Sun Smadhi is beyond description. That is why the enlightened souls go into very deep meditation some time for days together. You experience a lot of things during your Smadhi and Sun Smadhi, see a lot of things, meet a lot of Saints, Gurus, see Param Jyot, conversation with the Sants and Akal Purakh , it is beyond description wh at happens and through what you go when you go into deep meditation. This is the stage when all the doors – Bajjar Kapaat are opened and there is a continuous flow of Amrit, body is always full of Amrit. 8. The Simran in Smadhi and Sun Smadhi continues until NIRGUN AND SARGUN becomes one, at this point Simran goes into rom-rom – every bit of your body does Naam Simran, your Suksham Dehi becomes as pure as gold, your entire body is filled with Naam Amrit all the time. You become Braham Leen, and reach Atal Awastha. These stages are beyond description. Sat Chit Anand Ghar Hamare – Gurmukh Rom Rom Har Dhyae – Nirgun Sargun Nirankaar Sun Smadhi Aap, Apan Kia Nanka Apan Hi Fir Jaap and so on. One lives in Puran Parkash all the time and listens to Ilahi Kirtan(heavenly Kirtan/singing)– Anhad Naad Dhunis (heavenly music) all the time. I have also read that Anhad naad can begin to manifest in the transformation from Gyan khand to Saram khand. Many higher beings advise that the nam jap should stop when anhad dhuni starts. For quite some time, i carried on with regular nam jap and trying to leave the sounds in the background ! I am getting the strong inclination that ajapa jap should be my next approach, but I could be completely wrong !

I do still have these doubts at time of whether it is just some kind of tinnitus and i am under false illusion ! I don't know but how would i really know ? Somehow, I always get some kind of personal message or reassurance from waheguru that it's the correct path. There are other things (mystical) that you notice, that I don't think you would with medical condition of tinnitus !

I'm still working on this, by trying to do 'ajapa jap'. Previously, i never quite understood how ajapa jap or rom rom would work in practice, but i seem to have a much better idea I think ! I found that it was much easier to go into a deeper meditative state since the sounds started. My aim is usually to try and get into ajapa jap whereby the jap becomes like auto pilot with heart beat and breath, and then try and focus on sound. -I'm not actually too sure if this is the right thing to do, but at the moment it seems the most comfortable and effortless approach. Sometimes it will be for just 5 minutes and sometimes it may go for much longer.- my idea is too try and prolong it whilst trying to get deeper and deeper.