The Bhatts (or Bhatrai Sikhs)

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[ipledgeblue]

It really makes me laugh seeing Jatts feeling so proud of being Jatt. Being a Jatt doesn't stop a Pathan from victimising you. But being a Sikh of Guru Gobind Singh does.

We need to be proud firstly of being Sikhs of Dasam Patshah. All other things are secondary and worldly, and in the bigger picture of things seems very small.

Well to be honest i think we should be proud to be humans 1st!

Also about vicitmisation, I see being told not to call myself a jatt also as a type of victimisation don't you think?

[ipledgeblue]

yes, everyone and even animals have maryada or kanoon. I would say people lacking maryada are the ones whose kids are kicked out of home to do anything on the streets, their daughters getting drunk and wearin skirts etc. but still even these people have some kind of maryada/kanoon.

Well the different race thing might not be true, biut regardless under british written history, jatts are one of the martial races hence under british law jatts can be a race.

Are you also not trying to portray sikhs as a race, just a question?

[ipledgeblue]

Please explain to me how Sikhi conflicts with, lets say the Law of the land in the UK? Please give examples.

Working is Kirat, last time I checked, my uncle who is a practising Sikh was still a pilot. I wonder how his Sikhi lifestyle conflicts with him flying a 777.

So, to be a Khalsa, you cannot live with your family? Why is that?

If you want to be a Khalsa, you can't be living in a "Civilisation".

Please define cvilisation and how it conflicts with the Khalsa.

I am sorry, but you are making no sense, best to stick with your potatoes.

Let me give you a hint, a Sikh is not a Yogi who leaves the world and lives in a Cave.

Grist Jeevan ring any bells?

Let me see here again, you are simply saying that a practising Sikh can't live with his/her family and is not civilised. Hence they should go and live in the "dal".

wow.

well if grizti jeevan is ideal then why do nihangs live in the dal?

Also not just nihangs, but why do udasis also live an ascetic lifestyle?

Telling us we can't be jatts is sticking your nose into our family affairs, why don't you just make us wear yellow arm bands like talibans did to non-muslims, just for going against your "no jatts allowed" rule??

Well I'd like to see someone wearing massive dumalla armed to the teeth with weapons and also carrying a big rifle, or massive khanda trying to do an office job or some oyther jobs I can think of?

[ipledgeblue]

yeah and your point is? You are stating nothing NEW. Sorry no BREAKING NEWS here.

What does "Apneh" mean?

Dude, you are too much.

You actually believe that you are not going against your Guru's teaching.

btw, who is your Guru?

I told you before, if you read my post, I am against discrimination, and all forms of it.

apneh, like punjabis.

and you are against all discrimination? Are you against discriminating against people who believe in caste as well, or do you believe in discriminating against these people? Do you discriminate against people who don't have the same beliefs as you?

And yes I do believe I am not going against Guru Ji.

Otherwise, it would also be going against Guru Ji to big oneself up as khalsa singh or sikh!!

[ipledgeblue]

singh, there is no such thing as jatt maryada. Maryada refers to a code of conduct. The social norms that exist among jatts overlap to a huge extent with other caste groups, and are also different in some ways. These norms are taught socially (referred to as learning through 'nature') and not passed down genetically (nature).

Although some personality characteristics are passed genetically, research has proven that not only does nurture influence these characteristics, but that nurture provides the lions share of influence.

maryada or kanoon or whatever, most families have one, well indian ones anyway, i dunno about more modernised families.

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[Mithr]

Also about vicitmisation, I see being told not to call myself a jatt also as a type of victimisation don't you think?

Acknowledging the fact that you're a Jatt is okay as long as one does not feel pride in being a Jatt. Guru Gobind Singh Jee gave Jatts Sardari. If you look at our Jatt counter parts in the Muslim and Hindu communities, it just comes to prove that we were not born with Sardari.

Sardari, Ankh, Izzat was given to us only because we were followers of Guru Gobind Singh Jee. Without the Gurmat factor, we are no different than the Hindu or Muslim Jatts.

I was once reading a Sakhi in Suraj Parkash long ago. A Sikh once asked Guru Gobind Singh Jee as to why you are giving Sardari to the lowly Jatts, Tarkhans, Chimbay etc instead of the high born Rajputs of the Shivalik?

Guru Gobind Singh Jee answered that “If I give Sardari to the Rajputs of the Shivalik, then tomorrow when they conquer large territories they will become proud and say they are great conquerors because they are Rajputs, and not acknowledge the role of the Guru in their triumph.

But If I give Sardari to the lowly Sikhs like the Jats, Takhans etc they will always recognise the fact that it was the Guru’s Kirpa that turned them into the masters of the land."

Today, I see so many ungrateful Jatts who have now become so proud of their Jattness that they dare to claim that they became great because of their Jattness, while not acknowledging the fact that it was only and ONLY because of Guru Gobind Singh Jee's kirpa that we became masters of Punjab against all odds. Sometimes I think that the only reason why Sikhs are in the sorry state that they are now in is because we have abandoned the ways of our Gurus. All of our boys especially Jats are cutting their hair, our girls especially the Jattis want clean shaven boys completely forgetting the sacrifices our Guru made for us. Such ungrateful people we are!

We as Jats have nothing to be proud of. The only thing we have to be proud of is that Guru Gobind Singh Jee is our Master, and we should feel VERY proud to be his humble slaves.

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[shaheediyan]

Again, excellent point Mithr Ji!

"Well to be honest i think we should be proud to be humans 1st!"

My dear, this is not something to be proud of, rather something to be humbled by. This realisation should fill you with gratitude and throw your head at your Guru's charan, it should make you become your Guru's servant and a servant to insaaniyat.

The human form is the greatest gift, if we spend that precious little time being ignorently proud of it we will have entertained our ego - strengthened our haumai and squandered the precious opportunity to unite with our beloved.

Please stop using incomparable examples - Singhs take pride in what the Khalsa stands for i.e. their Guru/their Guru's ideals, their Guru's beauty, their Guru's spirituality, their Guru's generosity - a true Singh doesn't take pride in himself - he takes pride in other Singhs, takes pride in his Guru - he sees himself only as a slave to the former.

[ipledgeblue]

So does that include Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Jains, Christians, Buddhist?..many members of these groups live in Panjab?

I would class all of them as "apneh" aswell, if you call "Apneh" as Panjabis?

yes it includes them as well

[ipledgeblue]

Acknowledging that the fact that you're a Jatt is okay as long as one does not feel pride in being a Jatt. Guru Gobind Singh Jee gave Jatts Sardari. If you look at our Jatt counter parts in the Muslim and Hindu communities, it just comes to prove that we were not born with Sardari.

Sardari, Ankh, Izzat was given to us only because we were followers of Guru Gobind Singh Jee. Without the Gurmat factor, we are no different than the Hindu or Muslim Jatts.

I was once reading a Sakhi in Suraj Parkash long ago. A Sikh once asked Guru Gobind Singh Jee as to why you are giving Sardari to the lowly Jatts, Tarkhans, Chimbay etc instead of the high born Rajputs of the Shivalik?

Guru Gobind Singh Jee answered that “If I give Sardari to the Rajputs of the Shivalik, then tomorrow when they conquer large territories they will become proud and say they are great conquerors because they are Rajputs, and not acknowledge the role of the Guru in their triumph.

But If I give Sardari to the lowly Sikhs like the Jats, Takhans etc they will always recognise that fact that it was the Guru’s Kirpa that turned them into the masters of the land."

Today, I see so many ungrateful Jatts who have now become so proud of their Jattness that they dare to claim that they became great because of their Jattness, while not acknowledging the fact that it was only and ONLY because of Guru Gobind Singh Jee's kirpa that we became masters of Punjab against all odds. Sometimes I think that the only reason why Sikhs are in the sorry state that they are now in is because we have abandoned the ways of our Gurus. All of our boys especially Jats are cutting their hair, our girls especially the Jattis want clean shaven boys completely forgetting the sacrifices our Guru made for us. Such ungrateful people we are!

We as Jats have nothing to be proud of. The only thing we have to be proud of is that Guru Gobind Singh Jee is our Master, and we should feel VERY proud to be his humble slaves.

well, I would definetly say that the misls and Maharaja Ranjit Singh were pushed by sikhi as well to fight the tyrants.

But I also wouldn't deny kingdoms belonging to jatt kings that were never sikhs.

[ipledgeblue]

Again, excellent point Mithr Ji!

"Well to be honest i think we should be proud to be humans 1st!"

My dear, this is not something to be proud of, rather something to be humbled by. This realisation should fill you with gratitude and throw your head at your Guru's charan, it should make you become your Guru's servant and a servant to insaaniyat.

The human form is the greatest gift, if we spend that precious little time being ignorently proud of it we will have entertained our ego - strengthened our haumai and squandered the precious opportunity to unite with our beloved.

Please stop using incomparable examples - Singhs take pride in what the Khalsa stands for i.e. their Guru/their Guru's ideals, their Guru's beauty, their Guru's spirituality, their Guru's generosity - a true Singh doesn't take pride in himself - he takes pride in other Singhs, takes pride in his Guru - he sees himself only as a slave to the former.

ok in that case we should be humbled to be human first

and i like using incomparable examples, are they perhaps politically incorrect?

[ipledgeblue]

Who has told you not to call yourself a Jatt? Correct me if I am wrong, nobody here has told you to anything, apart from anwering a few questions.

If you feel that you are a victim, then please lodge a complaint with the Mods.

well maybe its the type of questions and sarcasm

[Mithr]

But I also wouldn't deny kingdoms belonging to jatt kings that were never sikhs.

The only Jat kingdom that were not Sikhs were the Jats of Bharatpur. Yes the Bharatpur Jats were a great people as well. But, they were pushed around and bullied by the Rajputs of Rajasthan who quite often tried to put these Jats in their place as Shudras. The Bharatpur Raja had to pay the Sikhs who at the time were in the area for help against the Rajputs.

So the Hindu Jats were pushed around by the Rajputs, compare that to the Sikhs who would push around the Rajputs of Punjab. In Himachal Pardesh and Jammu the Rajput chiefs were all under the heel of various Sikh misls. In Malwa area, the Patiala Sikhs took most of their land from Bhatti Rajputs.

Sikh were not pushed around by anyone whether they were Mughals, Pathans, Rajputs or Gurkhas. Even Jihadis who during the first Wahabi Jihad in recorded history lead by Shaheed Syed Ahmad Barelvi lost from the Sikh forces who were outnumbered by the Jihadis in the North West Frontier. Sikhs fought triumphantly against all South Asian powers they faced. It took the super power of the time the mighty British army to defeat the Sikhs who were just a small minority in Punjab

The Muslim Jats don't really have any great history worth mentioning except for maybe Ranjha and Mirza Jatt. The Hindu Jats have a history of being bullied around by Rajputs. The ONLY reason Sikh Jatts have it different from their counter parts is because of them following the Guru's path. We only have Anakh and Izzat and a proud unrivalled history because of Guru Gobind Singh Jee. Being Jatt simply means NOTHING if you compare Jatts with other so called martial races like the pathans, Rajputs, Marathas and gurkhas.

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[ipledgeblue]

Tell me something, when it comes time to think, why are you LondonDaJATT playing with words. Is this one of your famous "Jatt Genetical Trait"?

Point is mate, you have avoided answering our questions.

if i have broken any rules, i will answer for them