Jump to content
jassasingh

Gods fear or friendship

Recommended Posts

ਨਿਡਰਿਆ ਡਰੁ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਬਾਝੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਬਾਰੁ ॥੩॥ Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj

&

ਏਕੁ ਜਿ ਸਾਜਨੁ ਮੈ ਕੀਆ ਸਰਬ ਕਲਾ ਸਮਰਥੁ ॥ - Guru Arjun Dev Ji Maharaj

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Abrahamic religions like Islam(Sunnis), Christianity(Catholics, American Christianity) seem to always make us fear God. While Indic Bhakti cults, Sufi cults, Sikhi shows us to love God with all our hearts. I think that PremaBhagti is the way to go. Jin Prem Kio, Tin Hi Prabh Payo.

If you read Sufi poetry by the likes of Rumi, Baba Farid Jee, Bulle Shah you get the message of love, same with Bhagti cults like Gaudiya Matt of Sri Chaitanya whose message is very similar to Sikhi(in my opinion). He also preaches PremeBhagti.

Our way is that of love. But at the same time I think that fear for God and only God should also exist, just as a dog(kookar) fears yet loves his master. Only through Prema Bhagti can we get Charan Kamal of our master Vaheguru.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i was having discussion with my friend that we should see god as friend or we should have fear of god ... so help me out ... what guru sahib says about it and sant mahapursh ...

excellent question jassa veer ji.

I think one fear god in avidya (ignorance) at the starting point of spiritual journey but when one start vichar of atma relationship with paratama one's deb dristhi starts opening then same person sees no difference between god and mitr(freind). God is a freind. Then at latter stages, when one start expereincing anubhav parkash of their own self-atma which is paratma via meditation/atam chintan then one does not see any difference between self and paratma. In fact there is only one, there is no two... ~Atma Paratama Hai ~

so there is no black/white or right/wrong answer jassa veer ji, both are state and perceptions of one's mind. Reality is above from both which is Vahiguroo is -Sat Chit Anandsaroop hai, tu bhi deh nahi bhi Sat Chit Anand Saroop Hai- Ashtol, Sukhsam, Karan Sirar tou upar dekh, Treh guna tou upar dekh, tin avastha tu upar dekh, panja kosha tuu upar dekh..there is no difference. We cannot realize this because we are behind this 5 veils (5 kosh), after one birthi rises above from these 5 veils(sheats), then there is nothing else but anubhav parkash, all these differences are erased, there is only oneness.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i'd reverse it and say in all relationships with friends see god and thank god for having friends, and when a person is afraid, learn why god is giving you fear, he makes me fear to teach me. to limit god to a friend or to be fearful to god makes a murti of friend or of fear. In other words if you are not careful you will project friendliness or fear on maya instead of god inside, and as with most people who aspire to god we are half with god and half with maya. God can only be a friend to a brahmgyani us others can only praise god in the variety of our experiences and pray for ekargartha.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't fear just something to prevent us from doing wrong? So if we steer clear of wrong we need not fear?

tottaly agree with you there.

On that note, not that i m justifying any wrong doing but at the end of day, whats more important and what matters is intentions behind any act- good intentions, bad intentions, malice intentions.

I do believe strongly that you are NOT sowing bad karma if you have good intention in a act which turns out be negative. At many times, things do turn out to be wrong/negative despite of having good intentions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Actually in that tuk, bhauo here means love i believe because if one truly loves unconditionally, seeing one absolute reality in all, all in absolute reality removes fear as there is nothing to fear about..fear from who and what? there is only ONE non dual reality..one is without second....this is what truly nirbhauo in mool mantar/gurbani means, as soon duality kicks in there is fear no matter how much one claims they are fearless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Also fear is in initial stage, that initial stage should spontaneously turn into love-higher stage..it has to if it does not there is conditioned mind kicking in and block the way of pure reality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually in that tuk, bhauo here means love i believe because if one truly loves unconditionally, seeing one absolute reality in all, all in absolute reality removes fear as there is nothing to fear about..fear from who and what? there is only ONE non dual reality..one is without second....this is what truly nirbhauo in mool mantar/gurbani means, as soon duality kicks in there is fear no matter how much one claims they are fearless.

​Bro, ਭਉ means fear.

It has other meanings too, but not love.

Quote

(1) ਡਰ, ਭੈ, ਤੌਖਲਾ (2) ਭਵਜਲ, ਸੰਸਾਰ ਸਾਗਰ (3) ਭਵ-ਸਿੰਧ, ਭਵ-ਸਾਗਰ, ਹਸਤੀ ਦਾ ਸਮੁੰਦਰ (4) ਫਿਰਨਾ ਭਟਕਨਾ, ਭੌਂਨਾ

Unquote [1]

http://www.khojgurbani.org/worddetail/gurmukhi/ਭਉ

The word for love is ਭਾਉ.

Bhul chuk maaf

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Thanks bro I will research more on this ..I read Sant gyani gurbachan SinghSingh ji bhindran wale japji sahib teeka using bhou bhagti few times not  gurbani quotations but as general updesh as gurmat sidhant I thought he meant prema bhagti as I heard sikhi being prema bhagti lot more than bhau fear bhagti.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brother Jass,

the fear to be had, is not of Wahiguru whom we love , and is the emodiment of Infinite Love, but we must fear of ourselves, in the sense, not to anything such(wrong) as to make our beloved Wahiguru annoyed, or displesed...(do not these words literally, it is a way of expressing the idea behind it)

Just as for example, one loves one´s mate, parents, wife or child, one will not do any such thing to make them feel uncomfortable. The lover always keeps in mind, the awareness of oneself, to keep the beloved happy at all times.

There where is love, is also a fear, to not do any such thing, to annoy the beloved.

Sat Sree Akal.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ਭੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਲੰਘਸਿ ਪਾਰਿ ॥

Without the Fear of God, no one crosses over the world-ocean.

ਭੈ ਭਉ ਰਾਖਿਆ ਭਾਇ ਸਵਾਰਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

This Fear of God adorns the Love of the Lord. ||1||Pause||

 

ਜਉ ਡਰ ਡਰੈ ਤ ਫਿਰਿ ਡਰੁ ਲਾਗੈ ॥

When one rejects the Fear of God, then other fears cling to him.

ਨਿਡਰ ਹੂਆ ਡਰੁ ਉਰ ਹੋਇ ਭਾਗੈ ॥੧੯

But if he becomes fearless, the fears of his heart run away. ||19||

 

ਭੈ ਤਨਿ ਅਗਨਿ ਭਖੈ ਭੈ ਨਾਲਿ ॥

The fire of fear within the body is burnt away by the Fear of God.

ਭੈ ਭਉ ਘੜੀਐ ਸਬਦਿ ਸਵਾਰਿ ॥

Through this Fear of God, we are adorned with the Word of the Shabad.

ਭੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਘਾੜਤ ਕਚੁ ਨਿਕਚ ॥

Without the Fear of God, all that is fashioned is false.

ਅੰਧਾ ਸਚਾ ਅੰਧੀ ਸਟ ॥੨

Useless is the mold, and useless are the hammer-strokes on the mold. ||2||

 

ਡਰਿ ਘਰੁ ਘਰਿ ਡਰੁ ਡਰਿ ਡਰੁ ਜਾਇ ॥

Place the Fear of God within the home of your heart; with this Fear of God in your heart, all other fears shall be frightened away.

ਸੋ ਡਰੁ ਕੇਹਾ ਜਿਤੁ ਡਰਿ ਡਰੁ ਪਾਇ ॥

What sort of fear is that, which frightens other fears?

 

ਮਰਣਾ ਮੁਲਾ ਮਰਣਾ ॥

Death, O Mullah-death will come,

ਭੀ ਕਰਤਾਰਹੁ ਡਰਣਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

so live in the Fear of God the Creator. ||1||Pause||

Edited by paapiman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/22/2015 at 8:41 AM, Guest said:

Thanks bro I will research more on this ..I read Sant gyani gurbachan SinghSingh ji bhindran wale japji sahib teeka using bhou bhagti few times not  gurbani quotations but as general updesh as gurmat sidhant I thought he meant prema bhagti as I heard sikhi being prema bhagti lot more than bhau fear bhagti.

Bro, beautiful verse below, explaining the progression from love to unconditioned love, through fear.

 

ANG 53

ਲਾਲਿ ਰਤੀ ਸਚ ਭੈ ਵਸੀ ਭਾਇ ਰਤੀ ਰੰਗਿ ਰਾਸਿ ॥੨॥

She is dyed in the love of her Darling and abides in the fear of the True One. Imbued with His affection she assumes True Colour.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From Sri Aasaa kee Vaar Sahib jee

ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਨ੍ਹ ਮਨਿ ਭਉ ਤਿਨ੍ਹਾ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਉ ॥੨॥

O Nanak, those whose minds are filled with the Fear of God, have the love of God in their minds as well. ||2||

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/22/2015 at 8:23 AM, Guest said:

Also fear is in initial stage, that initial stage should spontaneously turn into love-higher stage

At higher stages, the below verses apply:

 

From Sri Aasaa kee Vaar Sahib jee

ਏਹ ਕਿਨੇਹੀ ਚਾਕਰੀ ਜਿਤੁ ਭਉ ਖਸਮ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ (475-1)

What sort of service is this, by which the fear of the Lord Master does not depart?

ਨਾਨਕ ਸੇਵਕੁ ਕਾਢੀਐ ਜਿ ਸੇਤੀ ਖਸਮ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੨॥ (475-2)

O Nanak, he alone is called a servant, who merges with the Lord Master. ||2||

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From Sri Aasaa Kee Vaar Sahib jee:

ਭੈ ਵਿਚਿ ਖੁੰਬਿ ਚੜਾਈਐ ਸਰਮੁ ਪਾਹੁ ਤਨਿ ਹੋਇ ॥

In the Fear of God it is bleached white, if the treatment of modesty is applied to the cloth of the body.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/18/2008 at 10:01 PM, jassasingh said:

i was having discussion with my friend that we should see god as friend or we should have fear of god ... so help me out ... what guru sahib says about it and sant mahapursh ...

We can have both of them in our relation with Wahiguru Akal Purukh.

We should undoubtedly love Him, and do not fear Him, as if He were to judge or punish us, for He can never ever do so.

Usually, people in moments of weakness, thus , out of ignorance blame Him, who is nothing, but an Infinite Ocean of Love (Prem) and Mercy (Daya)

So, just as even  in our personal relations, to those whom we love, we fear to do anything, which may be disliked by our beloved, so  at least that attitude of love and fear, should be towards Him, the Highest, and most adorable and benevolent.

Sat Sree Akal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...