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Biasakhi And the Nishan saab

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Can somebody answere for me the following query.

On Biasakhi, the Khalsa was formed and the sikhs gathered and moved forward as one family. Equality of both sexes has been an important part of the faith.

So why is it that on Baisakhi, when also the Nishaan Saab is renewed only the male's of the family are mentioned in any parth or ardas. Is this something that the scriptures provide for is is it something that over the decades we have let grow

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It would take ages for everyone to be mentioned, so I guess they just mention the head of the family. In cases where this happens to be a bibi, they mention her. It all depends what you tell the granthi - he'll mention whoever you want, or nobody at all, if that's what you prefer.

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Thnak you for the reply. I apprecite that practical implication sof mentioning verybody.

i am not sure i expressed my question qite as clearly having read it again.

What I wanted to know was, is there any basis in the scriptures for saying that the renewing of the Nashaan saab on Baisakhi is for the boys/men of the famaily and to that extent the girls are excluded.

I can not beleive that to be the case

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BSU, the 'renewing' of the Nishan Sahib is not mentioned in Gurbani. It's a big deal outside India nowadays, with the Nishan Sahib designed to pivot down so everyone can help change the 'chola'. In this sewa, there is absolutely no reason why women should be excluded. Did you see this for yourself?

If it did happen, it's plain wrong.

In India, however, most Nishan Sahibs are fixed and the 'chola' is changed by a Singh who climbs up it. This happens quite often and not just on Vaisakhi.

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I think it is just coincidence that you have only heard men's names, if any sexism exists it is cultural and not religious, many times has sikhi and panjabi culture clashed.

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Silence,

So would not allowing a female to climb up the pole to change the Nishaan Sahib in front of the Sangat amount to sexism?

It's not always a clash of culture and faith, the two are inter-related in many ways - influencing each other, you only have to look at the structure of Gurbani raags to know this i.e. the inclusion of popular folk music of that time.

Don't confuse tradition (established for good reasons) with sexism.

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then the fault is with those pervos. How is it any different with a Singh wearing a chola and kuria watching? you already hear plenty of chit chat "ooh hes buff" at nagar keertans. Just cause some people are so perverted they have kaam while doing seva why should we restrict the good person from doing seva?

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Silence, in accordance with your logic, do you suppose we should adopt total western political correctness and allow bibiyan to not have to wear salwaar at Amrit Sanchaars so that they can stand on equal foot with men?

'Think' before you answer - your "then the fault is with those pervos" quote is entirely relevant here.

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Equality has different meanings in different parts of the world. We cannot simply assume that the equality taught by the Gurus necessarily be the concept of equality we have been brought up with in the West and believe to be highest form of equality.

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Western political correctness is actually counter productive. Sikhs for the last 100 years, and more so for the last 40 years have been trying so hard in trying to fit Sikhi into western political correctness, some how hoping that Sikhi will appear more acceptable to secularists and westerners. This political correctness along with our Hindu phobia really annoys me at times.

I don't know about you guys, but I doubt a self respecting Singh out there would want his wife, sister, daughter climbing up a pole while hundres of men watch from below.

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Its not even about men or pervs watching the singhni but the thing is why would men let a woman take the risk of climbing the pole when there are other people present out there who should do it. I think just of respect for their sisters, mothers and daughters Singhs won't let them climb up as long as they are present there.

Also climbing a Nishan Sahib can be a risky business, there are many instances when people have fallen down resulting in their death. This could be another probable reason.

Unless the Jatha is completely of women and there are no singhs around to do this seva , then climbing the NIshan Sahib by a bibi may sound reasonable.

It just occurred to me right now that when they change the chola there is a seat that is fitted to the pole which rises up as the lever down below is rotated. So I guess even Bibis could do it if they are seated on a seat and as long as they dont climb it like a monkey with their legs wrapped around a pole and make a mockery of themselves.

I realize i just made a mess of my post by posting contradictory views , anyways i will post to see you guys' reactions hehe

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why not if its a long, decent chola? if a bibi is doing panj pyare seva then they wud have to remove pajama. Having said that the nishan sahib seva is a completley different case, I mean the bibi would be completley decent from her own side all covered up, so someone is pretty messed up in the head if they can get pervy from that tbh

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