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nogroup singh

Do you believe in reincarnation?

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In my view Reincarnation is true: and I have seen it on Zeenews India no.1 News Channel they have shown a whole report on it. the report is on women called Binidya in this Janam she remembers her Last 3 (Janams) in first she died when she was 8 year old because of accident & in second she Died at 38 because of Heart attack and now she is 55 year old and living in UP India. she remember his relatives from his second Janam and even meet them regularly . her first Janam was in Pakistan so she cannot go there. its really a true story.

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wjkk,wjkf.

this is an open-shut case. :LOL:

there are sooooooo many references to reincarnation in SGGSJ.

here are but a few;

from 'jaap sahib'

nwnk hukmI Awvhu jwhu ]20]

naanuk hukumee aavuhu jaahu ||20||

O Nanak, by the Hukam of God's Command, we come and go in reincarnation. ||20||

from 'Guru Nanak Dev Ji-Siree Raag 19'

ibnu sbdY BrmweIAY duibDw foby pUru ]1]

bin subudhai bhurumaaeeai dhubidhhaa ddobae poor ||1||

Without the Word of the Shabad, people wander lost in reincarnation. Through the love of duality, multitudes have been drowned. ||1||

from 'Guru Nanak Dev Ji-Siree Raag 23'

Koty Kotu kmwvxw Awie gieAw piq Koie ]3]

khottae khott kumaavunaa aae gaeiaa path khoe ||3||

Practicing falsehood again and again, people come and go in reincarnation, and forfeit their honor. ||3||

could it be any clearer?

i could go on forever but i think this proves the point.

in short; YES ; we beleive in reincarnation, its undisputable.

bhul chuk maaf

wjkk,wjkf

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All,

My whole intention to start this thread was to bring up few facts from Sikhism point of view. It has been reported that so many Sikhs were approached by muslims and they have asked this question and trying to make reincarnation absurd belief.

Reincarnation and transmigration of the soul or Jivatma is a FUNDAMENTAL REALITY. I recommend the following materials for your probing into the reality of reincarnation and transmigration of soul:

http://www.childpastlives.org/stevenson.htm

http://www.pureinsight.org/pi/articles/2003/1/30/1400.html

Reincarnation and transmigration isn't only an Indian teaching, it's Middle Eastern too. Have you guys heard of the Druze people? The Druze began as an Islamic reform movement during the 11th century. Druzes believe in the esoteric meaning of the Quran and the Bible. THEY ALSO BELIEVE IN REINCARNATION!! Check out the following for more info on the Druze "Muslims".I don't know if they like being called Muslim, I would say they are Islam Gnostics. Check out:

http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Outback/9277/d4.htm

http://www.onebodymindspirit.com/news_cent...s_EndsEarth.htm

I also highly recommend all of you read the following books:

Reincarnation: True Stories of Past Lives by Roy Stemman

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Also, I would like to add following discussion to this thread.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

waheguru ji ke khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

Pyare jio, recently I encountered a bibi who was heavily influenced by islam. She wanted to have a debate with me. She seemed quite confident she was going to convince me about the superiority of Islam. I accepted. The angle she used was all about life after death.

A few weeks later I was talking to another local Gursikh about this. He said this was so strange. He said in the office he worked, he too was approached, and also asked about life after death. He said not only this, but his brother who studies in a birmingham university was also asked the same questions. So was his sister, who is a teenager in a leeds school. We thought this cannot be a coincidnce that in the matter a two weeks four practicing sikhs are approached by muslims with exactly the same questions. These are just the people we know, how many more?

Wondering about this, we came to the conclusion, that there must be some kind of organised approach to this. Quite possibly an egroup, which regularly lists questions which can be asked to all non-muslims, to question their faith, and then interest them in islam.

Two weeks ago, I met another sikh who works as a teacher in a school. He said he has alot of muslim kids in his class. He said one of them even came up to him, put his arm around him, and said, "give me half an hour, and I will convince you islam is the only way." He said he was amazed at the level of confidence in these kids that they could say something like that to their teacher.

Bibi: Bhaji, You sikhs believe in reincarnation. This is a completely absurd theory. It does not make sense. How can a human then become a pig?

Das: Bhen ji, both sikhs and hindus believe in re-incarnation, but our belief is different in some areas, but the whole concept of re-incarnation is not about what a person becomes in their next life, but about escaping the cycle of life and death and becoming mukht.

Bibi : But how do you become a pig from a human?

Das: The body is just a vessel, only the soul is what is of value. This soul can be born in any vessel.

Bibi: I do not accept this, I think it is absurd.

Das: Bhen ji, that is your choice. A person after death is judged according to their thoughts & actions. It is according to this judgement, that they are honoured or dishonoured in the next life. But even this is not so important. The important thing is to be able to break the cycle in life and death, while alive. To be able to attain a spiritual plain and obtain mukhti. Then it does not matter what you will be in the next life, for you are free and merged with God. That is the key to re-incarnation, that one breaks free from this cycle.

Bibi: Fine, but is sikhi the way? Judgement day will come upon us all.

Das: Yes it will, and it happens everyday. Everyday we are judged, and every action we do has a re-action. But in the end to Judgement day will come, we call it the Dharam Raj, you call it different.

Bibi: No, judgement day will come to everyone on this earth. The day will be beckoning, when Allah judges all, and the muslims will rise.

Das: You mean the muslims will rise, ie. all the ones buried in coffins will rise again and you will have an army of zombies fighting against non-muslims. You find re-incarnation absurd, but you find this acceptable?

Bibi: Islam is the truth, it is the only way. All those who are non-muslims will become muslims.

Das: Judgement day as a concept is complete nonsense. It does not make sense.

Bibi: How can you say that?

Das: Bhen ji, relax and listen. Firstly you believe in a day. Why? God, Allah, Waheguru, does not believe in day and night, God is timeless. Day and night is a concept of man, and the result of the earth circling the sun. Why would God wait for a day to judge everyone. God is beyond that. It is a continuous process as in sikhi has with the Dharam raj. Do you believe God is not capable of judging people continuously. Why wait for a day? Them muslims who died centuries ago are then unlucky for they have had to stay in coffins all this time, decomposing, waiting for this day to come when they can be judged. Does this not seem an ineffective way, surely continuous judgement via dhram raj is more sensible, and God`s way is Truth. I see more truth in continuous judgement.

Bibi: yes, but your way, turns a human into a pig?

Das: Bhen ji, You are stuck on one silly point. God gives his beloved souls many many chances, it is they who choose whether to take this chance or not. If they do not then they come back in some form or another. Just because muslims do not like pigs, does not mean they are bad. A pig is part of Allah`s creation aswell, just like everything else. A person who is a friend of God, is also a friend on his creation. That person learns to love and appreciate everything God has created.

Bibi: No, in islam there is only one chance, there is only one way, and you are judged according to it.

Das: How can this be the way of God? Even a mother with a child. The child as it grows up makes thousands of mistakes, the mother sometimes gets frustrated, but never stops loving the child. The mother always forgives and has that compassionate nature. And we are talking of God. It is God who put that compassionate nature into the mother. How can we say God is not compasionate at all? The human will make thousands of mistakes in their life, no matter how holy they are, but God will always love them, help them, and be compassionate towards them. he gives them thousands of chances.

Bibi: Yes, true a mother is compassonate and so must be God. l have to read deeper, maybe in islam you do get another chance.

Das: Then if you do get another chance, then that chance has a form. Whether or not you accept it, then that is a form of re-incarnation, and non-acceptance of Judgement day theory.

(Bibi goes quiet, revelation suddenly dawns upon her)

Bibi: No, No, I will have to get back to you ... We will talk about this again..

Bibi left.

waheguru ji ke khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

source: http://www.sikh-history.com/cgi-bin/Ultima...ic;f=1;t=001514

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You know whats really scary?Meeting someone who remembers their past life. Dang! One time ..This 3 year old girl ..who remembers her husband, kids, and stuff. Her kid was only 3 ! Damn !! --Scary!!..Anyone else like had this experience??

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Now that it has been undoubtable that Reincarnation is accepted in Sikhism... and may be it is a another chance to improve our Dush-Karams but still what is the philosophy behind Reincarnation? Why there are so few cases of Reincarnation reported...? And how do they remember all that stuff from previous lives...?

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What about the punishments we receive of badness/goodness of our past sins? Will they come exactly like our previous life? I mean, say if we got really angry unnecessarily with someone in this life and we did it a lot of times (bad thing), will this badness come back in the same form at us in future life (i.e. we will be gotten angry at many times exactly as in this life), or could it come in a different form(s), like something majorly bad happens in one go that is equal to several of these times that we get angry at someone in this life??? I am confused, I understand the basic concept of reincarnation, that we reap what we sow, that we must break the cycle to realise Waheguru, but how exactly do actions in lives mirror themselves in future lives in terms of good deeds meaning good in future and bad deeds leading to punishment/suffering in future?

If you can still keep up with what I am saying, please respond to my query... :)

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Had we remembered the deeds of our past births, it would have helped us to know what we did in our previous births that earned us the fate in this birth. I still believe that it was just one of the tact of Gurus to make ignorant people understand that they should beware of their wrong deeds because they would face the consequences latter. It was much easier to mold the thinking of the people rather than all out refuting of the prevalent system. There was no way that psyche of the people could be changed overnight. So, our Gurus tried to reform using their prevalent myths, faiths and beliefs.

According to Karmic System, we are just the playing objects in the hand of God, If He takes notes of all the acts of us then why does He not allowed us to realize our follies in this Birth only so that we could start afresh in next birth. Why to maintain such lengthy bank account of everybody, when there is no reconciliation of the accounts periodically.

When we talk of death of a newly born child then do you think that God made a mistake by giving the child the birth because he did not gave that child a chance to make amends in the mistakes done in the previous birth. And why did He made the mother of that child suffer if the child had to die in infancy. Now, we assume that it was the karmas of mother that she had to suffer for her deeds in previous births.

But, then a very serious point comes into consideration. Now, if the things moved like this in the hands of God, then when the husband of a newly wedded bride dies. Does that mean that it is the karams of the newly wedded bride? Then that means that we are not doing any wrong when we put the blame that bride even if she is suffering on her own due to her karmas in previous life. But then our Guru firmly advocated widow marriage... Then Why did our Gurus not left these unfortunate widows to suffer their life in misery due to their Karmas in previous life...?

Again when we talk of beggars or poor people then when the God has made them materialistically poor then why should worry about their lot. They deserve to be left to their fates and we should make no efforts to improve their lot. There was no need for people like Bhagat Puran Singh to devote a lifetime to help of less privileged people in the society. They should continue to suffer as what they got in their lot was what they deserved according to their karmas in previous births... And then even Bhagat Ji committed a sin by going against the Karmic System...

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wat ideal singh has raised is very interesting :D

a baby dies during birth

baby loses life - mother loses son

it isnt just one of their karmas being fulfilled.. its both.. the whole familys.. the baby probably has probably a certain amount of life times to be born and die.. but each janam is goin by fast...

its in mothers karma that she will lose a niyana.. for wat reason only waheguru knows.... put both of them together and both karmas are fulfiled... hmmm im gettin confused now :P

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Had we remembered the deeds of our past births, it would have helped us to know what we did in our previous births that earned us the fate in this birth. I still believe that it was just one of the tact of Gurus to make ignorant people understand that they should beware of their wrong deeds because they would face the consequences latter. It was much easier to mold the thinking of the people rather than all out refuting of the prevalent system. There was no way that psyche of the people could be changed overnight. So, our Gurus tried to reform using their prevalent myths, faiths and beliefs.

According to Karmic System, we are just the playing objects in the hand of God, If He takes notes of all the acts of us then why does He not allowed us to realize our follies in this Birth only so that we could start afresh in next birth. Why to maintain such lengthy bank account of everybody, when there is no reconciliation of the accounts periodically.

When we talk of death of a newly born child then do you think that God made a mistake by giving the child the birth because he did not gave that child a chance to make amends in the mistakes done in the previous birth. And why did He made the mother of that child suffer if the child had to die in infancy. Now, we assume that it was the karmas of mother that she had to suffer for her deeds in previous births.

But, then a very serious point comes into consideration. Now, if the things moved like this in the hands of God, then when the husband of a newly wedded bride dies. Does that mean that it is the karams of the newly wedded bride? Then that means that we are not doing any wrong when we put the blame that bride even if she is suffering on her own due to her karmas in previous life. But then our Guru firmly advocated widow marriage... Then Why did our Gurus not left these unfortunate widows to suffer their life in misery due to their Karmas in previous life...?

Again when we talk of beggars or poor people then when the God has made them materialistically poor then why should worry about their lot. They deserve to be left to their fates and we should make no efforts to improve their lot. There was no need for people like Bhagat Puran Singh to devote a lifetime to help of less privileged people in the society. They should continue to suffer as what they got in their lot was what they deserved according to their karmas in previous births... And then even Bhagat Ji committed a sin by going against the Karmic System...

Someone mocked at me: How does Gurbani define 'Karma' & 'Reincarnation' with relation to scientific logic as we claim Gurbani to Rational and Logical ?

Is Karmic theory, as being interpreated by us, from Gurbani Rational or Irrational :?:

Please advice urgently :!:

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Guest Javanmard

Karma is the law of cause and effect: you can't be more rational and logic than that.

Who said that Sikhi had to be scientific??? That's pure idiocy! Science and Religion serve different means. One cannot be taken as a measure for the other: That's complete non-sense!!!

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Karma is the law of cause and effect: you can't be more rational and logic than that.

Who said that Sikhi had to be scientific??? That's pure idiocy! Science and Religion serve different means. One cannot be taken as a measure for the other: That's complete non-sense!!!

Do this cause and effects carry forward over to next births?

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let me die first and I'll tell you in my next rebirth :wink:

I hope you remember me... :wink: thankz I have my answer !!

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I understand that human birth is obtained through Guru’s kirpa.

But can someone explain what criteria must be met to gain human birth ?

Or is it mandatory that a soul must transmigrate though chaurasi lakh before human birth is obtained?

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Guest Javanmard

I'll the ask "The Great Moderator"! Might take some time though because He/She is trying to tell us that all that matters is our love for Him/Her. so there might be some interference between our futile questions and his/her love for us. :wink:

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I dislike when people bring up the thing called "sceince, science". it is a scientific religion.. bla .. bla. bl.a

What is Science first of all?

That which man can understand and comprehend with proof and facts is called science and that which he can not is labelled as myth, religion, mystery !!.. bla bla..bla

as we can see science is just a man-made thing, a man's perception of the Universe created by God... and an illusionary understanding of it. The Mind is an illusion, your thinking is an illusion.. science is a complete illusion

Its like in a dream u r driving a car and another person in the dream can explain why and why the car is working and how it travels.. but the one who has created the dream or is dreaming and created that person in that dream.. can not be understood by scientific evaluation and the person woh created the dream can change it so much that such that it will be out of the understanding of science.

Science is one branch of maya.. and by maya you cant understand God.

It is a man-made or a mind=made thing and a component of the human way of thinking. God and Religious things are above and beyond science or I will say it transcends science.

As to the topic of reincarnation. I'd like to say.. Reincarnation exists and surprisingly I have heard of an amritdhari sikh who eats meat and says he will also eat humans and doesnt believe in in reincarnation coz it goes with the hindu-way of thinking. He is Khalistani ! :twisted:

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Guest Javanmard

jjj wrote:

I have heard of an amritdhari sikh who eats meat and says he will also eat humans and doesnt believe in in reincarnation coz it goes with the hindu-way of thinking. He is Khalistani !

:LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:

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REBIRTH.jpg

Scientific Evidence of Reincarnation--Update

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IS rebirth possible? Are there any scientific bases for believing in rebirth? Since time immemorial, man has been struggling to find a solution to this mystery but conclusive evidence has thus far eluded him. Jupinderjit Singh from TribuneIndia.com (03-13-03)

Now, in probably the first-ever case of its kind, a Patiala-based forensic science expert has sought to scientifically prove the phenomenon. Putting forward for debate his research in a case involving the rebirth of a child who lived in Chakkchela village of Jalandhar district in his past life and now lives in Alluna Miana village of Ludhiana district, Vikram Raj Singh Chauhan claims to prove on the basis of the comparison between the handwriting of the child in his previous and present births, the theory that rebirth is possible. His findings have been hailed at the recent National Conference of Forensic Scientists at Bundelkhand University, Jhansi.

A couple of months ago, a six-year-old boy Taranjit Singh of Alluna Miana village near Payal in Ludhiana claimed to remember his previous life. In fact, according to his economically weak parents, the boy had been claiming this since he was two years old and used to attempt to run away from home. The boy said he was born in Chakkchela village in Jalandhar district in his past birth and his real name was Satnam Singh and his father’s name was Jeet Singh. He said he was a student of Class IX in a school in Nihalwal village at the time of his death. On September 10, 1992, he was returning home on a bicycle from his school along with his friend Sukhwinder Singh when a scooter-rider named Joga Singh of Mirajwala village, Shahkot tehsil, hit him. He received serious injuries on his head and died the following day.

His present father Ranjit Singh said as the boy became more insistent, he and his wife took him to Chakkchela village in Sangrur district. They could not find anyone resembling the people their son had described as his parents. When someone told them that there was a village called Chakkchela in Jalandhar district as well, they decided to go there.

The boy’s father Ranjit Singh and his friend Rajinder Singh went to the government school in Nihalwal village in Jalandhar district where they met an old teacher who told that it was true that a boy named Satnam Singh had died in an accident and he was the son of Jeet Singh of Chakkchela village. Then the family reached the house of Jeet Singh and narrated the whole story.

Ranjit Singh also said that his son claimed that the books he was carrying when the accident occurred had been soaked in his blood. He also had Rs 30 in his purse. On hearing this, the woman Taranjit claimed was his mother in his previous birth, started weeping and confirmed his claim. She said she had preserved the blood-stained books and Rs 30 as the last memory of her child.

After few days Taranjit Singh’s brother in his previous life Kewal Singh, sister Lakhbir Kaur, friend Buta Singh, father Jeet Singh and mother Mohinder Kaur came to Alluna Miana village to meet Taranjit. Lakhbir Kaur showed the photographs of her marriage to Taranjit Singh and asked him to recognise himself in his previous birth. Taranjit Singh immediately recognised the same as also the photo of his parents in his previous birth.

This story was carried in some newspapers. Vikram Chauhan told this writer that as a man of science, he refused to believe such a story but driven by curiosity, he decided to investigate. He visited the villages concerned a number of times. The boy and the parents of both the births repeated the same story. He spoke to a shopkeeper who told him that the boy had taken a notebook on credit of Rs 3 from him a few days before his death. When the shopkeeper went to the boy’s village, the boy immediately recognised him but said he owed him Rs 2 only. The shopkeeper admitted the fact and said he had only wanted to test the authenticity of the child’s claim.

Thereafter to confirm the incident scientifically, Chauhan took samples of the writings of Taranjit Singh both in Gurmukhi and English and also of Satnam Singh from the notebooks kept by the family of Satnam Singh, in order to find out whether or not the handwritings of Satnam Singh and Taranjit Singh were similar. A basic theory of forensic science that the handwritings of two different individuals cannot be the same was the basis of his investigation. If Taranjit Singh and Satnam Singh were the same person, then their handwritings also had to be the same.

The author explained that a person’s handwriting has specific characteristics, which are determined by one’s personality and hence no two persons write in the same manner.

It is an applied science combining the study of optics, physiology and psychology. A person’s psychological makeup determines, to a large extent, his handwriting. Thus, the mind plays an important role in shaping a person’s handwriting and the hand only translates into action the dictates of the mind, which cannot be the same in two different writers.

The author revealed he was amazed to find that the handwriting of Taranjit Singh corresponded almost exactly with that of Satnam Singh. The only difference lay in the muscular coordination of the two writers as Taranjit Singh was not accustomed to writing. This was quite unusual and suggested that something in the two boys was same.

The author argued that if it is presumed that the soul is transferred from one person to another then it can be inferred that the mind will remain the same. Thus, if Satnam Singh’s soul was believed to have been transferred into Taranjit Singh’s body, then it stood to reason that the handwriting of Taranjt Singh would correspond with that of Satnam Singh.

The scientist proved this in a conference. According to the minutes of the conference, a number of forensic experts examined the handwriting samples and found that these were similar.

"I have some scientific basis to claim rebirth is possible", says Chauhan, "but I wish to research further on the subject and am closely monitoring the development of the child." According to Chauhan, another factor bolstered his conclusions. "In his present birth, Taranjit has never gone to school as he belongs to a poor family, but yet when I told him to write the English and Punjabi alphabet, he wrote them correctly."

Taranjit is living with the parents of his present birth as they refuse to give him to his former parents, even though they are poorer than them. The parents of his previous birth have also not pressed their claim saying they understand the feelings of their counterparts.

http://introduction.krishna.org/Articles/2...0/09/00134.html

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Agreed that Reincarnation is a Fundamental Reality... but do we carry forward our Karmas too in the new incarnation... or everything is dealt in this life only ?

What Gurbani has specifically said about this ?

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