das Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 If I am NOT mistaken, then this is the topic named as "Orthodox Christianity & Uncut Hair".......I think that I should be sorry because I posted the turban thing from which you guys have got what you need....masala to debate about nothing. Great....keep it up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 Well, I still beleive that Hanuman Jee was a Monkey or some sub species of monkey that may no longer exist, and he did have a poonch. He wore a Kashara and that Kashara had a little hole in the back for the poonch to go through. Dhoti cannot accomodate a poonch but a Kashara can. Hanuman Jee was an avtar ansh of Shiv Jee who had enormous powers. For him to send his ansh in the form of a monkey-man is no big deal for him. But to many modernists like you Bahadur this may seem like mere myth. Go ahead deny it, doesn't mean it's not true. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morghe Sahar Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 Mithar wrote: "Well, I still beleive that Hanuman Jee was a Monkey or some sub species of monkey that may no longer exist, and he did have a poonch. He wore a Kashara and that Kashara had a little hole in the back for the poonch to go through. Dhoti cannot accomodate a poonch but a Kashara can. Hanuman Jee was an avtar ansh of Shiv Jee who had enormous powers. For him to send his ansh in the form of a monkey-man is no big deal for him. But to many modernists like you Bahadur this may seem like mere myth. Go ahead deny it, doesn't mean it's not true." You're right. I am sure Father Xmas and Batman will understand you better. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted December 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 What are you saying, Santa Claus doesn't exist?!!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 You're right. I am sure Father Xmas and Batman will understand you better. Well if Imam Mahdi can disappear for centuries just to return to reinstate Mutaa then I guess anything is possible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morghe Sahar Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 I don't what your problem is Mithar.Most educated Brahmins agree that the Vanjaras aren't monkeys and clearly state that most uneducated people due to their ignorance believe that the Vanjaras were monkeys. As for your insult against Imam Sahibe Zaman (ajf), the sin is on your head. I haven't insulted Hanuman or Sri Ram. I have studied the Ramayana in the original Sanskrit and it's a work of great poetic beauty which I profoundly love. Your ignorance that make Hanuman to be some monkey super hero is the true insult to the beauty of the Ramayana. Going back to Imame Zaman (ajf) your insult againt him doesn't surprise me as the Prem Sumarg Granth says that the Khalsa will oppose Imam e Zaman (ajf). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinegar Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 Ha this is better than Eastenders...how on earth did you chumps get so off topic 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morghe Sahar Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 I don't know either but I am certain Tarentino is having fun reading this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 Morge Considering that some of the hadiths mention that the character of the mahdi will be the same as that of Mohammed, is it any wonder that the Khalsa will oppose such a tyrant? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morghe Sahar Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 1. Nice to know that you believe that the Khalsa is to oppose Sahibe Zaman (afj). 2. It is your choice to rely on Sunni hadiths. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 As far as i recall Prem Sumarag mentions that a powerful muslim will rise from the west but it says nothing about Imam Mahdi being the charachter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morghe Sahar Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 Who is it then? Abou Abad of Beyrouth? LOL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 It could be anyone. It says that he will be defeated, i dont think Imam Mahdi will be defeated by anyone according to the hadits 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morghe Sahar Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 Well Chaubis Avatar says an ant will kill him. And as the katha of Sant Jarnail Singh has shown, we can say that the traditional understanding of Khalsa Sikhs about Islam is a pretty negative one to say the least. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 Then it is our duty to bring changes.. Be the change you wish to see in the world 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted December 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 As far as i recall Prem Sumarag mentions that a powerful muslim will rise from the west but it says nothing about Imam Mahdi being the charachter. I wouldn't trust anything in Prem Sumarag. Is it the job of the mod(s) to keep threads on-topic? :wink: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 right, so on topic you people otherwise i ll pass fatwa of sikhawareness against each of you. :evil: :evil: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 "Then it is our duty to bring changes.. Be the change you wish to see in the world" LOL, hell is more likely to freeze over before Bahadur Ali ever entertains the idea of peace!! Prem Sumarag is a very important pieceof literature which has been purposefully ignored by the reformists. It gives glances of many lost practices and traditions of the Khalsa of old. All due respect to Mcleod for translating it and many other rehit documents for the world to see and give them the chance to form their own opinions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morghe Sahar Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 Peace at the cost of truth? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 "Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods." Albert Einstein 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekhane'ch Jannat Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 what truth? Historical? Metaphysical? Transcendent? I've never known such a harlot as this 'truth' people speak of these days. As you well know philology is a good way to get to the truth, so does this truth, have an objective sense which we all can aim to understand (of course with the correct preparation) Or is this truth a wishy washy subjective fantasy. please flesh out this concept for our benefit. I would propose to use the word reason, instead of truth, as truth implies an absolute an unchanging essence, whereas we can have degrees of reason which are derived from truth, with God being ultimate truth and therefore ultimate reason. By using such a word as truth you are being deliberately unflexible. While I understand a pinch of supremacist thinking and subordination and inclusion of the ideas of other 'ways' must be the constituent of any path. (no one believes theri own ideas are inferior) It is not correct to attempt to batter the other ideas into submission, it will leave only a bloody mess. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morghe Sahar Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 The issue here is simple: the perennialist reading of Sikh tradition at the expense of some uncomfortable historical truth. And the problem is this: the Dasam Granth discourse. It simply in incompatible with a perennialist vision of things. There are worlds separatingh the view that Sikhism preaches acceptance of all religions and then the Dasam Granth discourse which makes all non Sikh paths and prophets to be frauds. It's something that always struck me when I first read 19th century scholarship on Sikhism, the fact that these scholars were shocked at the deep contrast between the Nanakian discourse and then the very anti-Islamic discourse of the Khalsa. Both the Dasam Granth and the Rahitname literature contain very anti-Islamic and in part very anti-Brahmin elements that cannot just be dismissed as biproducts of history. What I mean to say is that tonyhp32 and the Niddarpanthi crowd, though separated by differences of liturgy, share that same discourse. Shaheediyan and Amardeep have a more reconciliatory, perennial discourse, and it is my fear that it is something that may be confirmed by the Adi Granth, which I consider constructive but then again the Dasam Granth discourse of :"God sent fake prophets to humanity and we are the right ones", contradicts it. My mistake in the past was to try and reconciliate both discourses at the expense of what was obvious, even though the Mahadin issue taken literally gave space for that. But that was done ignoring centuries of Sikh sampradaic tradition that make previous prophets frauds. I have no problem with peace but peace in the name of what? Social pacification imposed from above by a secularist "we're all one" ideology serving imperial capitalism? Certainly not it would just be conveniant but not based on truth. Peace has to be based on solid foundations.If Wahabis believe in ecterminating Jews and Christians I see no possibility of peace. If Nihangs and many other Khalsa affiliated Sikhs believe that one day they will conquer Mecca and exterminate Islam, then peace is not possible. But if the belief can be shared about a saviour that will reconciliate all revealed traditions and that in the meantime we can set our differences aside and live in peace as good neighbours , then yes this is the foundation of peace. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted December 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 Now you decide to take things literally and believe some versions of sau sakhi and prem sumarag? We have no desire to exterminate Islam or to conquer Mecca, that is not what Guru Ji taught us. We may not agree with your beliefs, but you have the right to believe them. That is what will bring peace. What does Islam say about other religions (not 'of the Book')? Show me one place in Gurbani where it says to harm people of other religions? We're going off-topic again, but I had to say something about your previous post. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 He is reffering to Karninama that says the khalsa will conquer Mecca and Medina. The topic of "the religion of Guru Granth Sahib" and the "religion of Dasam Granth" is mostly used among those who reject dasam bani because they say that the teachings are completely different, as God, history and the world is portrayed differently in dasam bani. There is an answer to that however, and that must be found in the grey zone 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 Wow, Morghe now has a new incarnation! Another miraculous conversion! Hallelujah! Eh Banda tan Mahatma Gandhi ban gaya! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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