Mithar Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8066005.stm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted May 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 http://www.tribuneindia.com/2009/20090525/main8.htm This is getting serious. RIOTS!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 does anyone know what was the reason behind the assault on the granthi? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted May 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 does anyone know what was the reason behind the assault on the granthi? Accoring to the report on Tribune India, the attack was on some leader of a Dera called "Dera Sachkhand" and the leader's name is Sant Niranjan Dass. The Gurdwara is a Chamar Gurdwara. That is probably why Chamars in Jalandhar are rioting since Chamars are most powerful in the Doaba region, especially in Jalandhar. The incident is still very fresh, so very little information on what really happened. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.Kaur Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 It's really sad to see the state of the Panth; today we have caste-based Gurdware what will the next be?! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 about 10 years ago, Sant Niranjan Das visited england Ravidas Gurdwaras, where there was a furore as he allowed people to touch his feet inpresence of Aad Guru Granth. This even split the Ravidasias into 2 groups both pro and anti Niranjan Das. I remember the Council of Ravidasias issuing a press statement saying that no-one should do this in presence of Aad Guru Granth Sahib. Sant Niranjan Das has stated that they are not sikh, so is it a panthic matter? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Here is my personal observation on this: - Sikhs suppose to take up sword as instructed by sri guru gobind singh ji when all other means have failed as khalsa is sovereign, in this case... were all other means tried to request sant niranjan das not to play with sikh sentiments by allowing followers matha taiking to him in front of guru maharaj hazoori? if so, when and where? and how? - I am all up for justified force at the last resort against someone who does maha beadi of sri guru granth sahib ji. Khalsa must follow foot steps of dharam yudh maryada by sri guru gobind singh ji, last resort means state gov't failed to do anything, in most cases gov't abroad take hurting religious sentiments by any cult or anyone very seriously. - Was force use in this act, was justified force at last resort or unjustified/brute force? In this case, force used was unjustified were innocent but may be misguided followers got hurt. CBC Canada is already reporting - 1 person being killed in this. This is totally unacceptable, must be condemn on all levels by panthic jathebandiyas and sri akaal takth sahib - the main sikh body. - Hot headed extremist/sharia panthis have made other sikhs living abroad living hell by using kirpans/swords to prove their frustration and anger. Next time, do think about what kind of reaction your action invoke? Thank you shariapanthis for your mahan seva yet again now this will give chance to court to have second opinion on Sikhs wearing kirpan in public places. If you must use the violence despite of trying other peaceful means then use a damn brick next time. We must step up to condemn these actions also voice our concerns to this senseless violence which involved innocent civilians. These hooligans are hijacking our dharam and make it look like- another sunni/wahabi violent cult and what's even more outrageous if these attackers die, they be declare shaheeds and be equated the same level of shaheediyan- puratan gurmukhs gave for the panth. What a fiasco !. These days just every sacred term is used soo loosely that in next few years, sacred terms will be start wearing off its significance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaljug Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Fateh! I would be very surprised if these Sikhs turn out to be educated chardikala Amritdhari Sikhs. How ignorant do you have to be to do this kind of thing so close to the 25th year anniversary of operation bluestar? So far I've heard claims that the ones responsible are "high caste fundamentalist Sikhs", chardikala Sikhs who are avenging some beadbi, that this is a family matter gone wrong, and that they are Indian government agents. It's going to be interesting to hear what they have to say when the smoke has cleared. Well done to the Ravidasis in Punjab who are going round waving swords and setting fire to cars before anyone has figured out what is actually going on. Blowing stuff up is a great way to solve crimes. Regards, K. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Whats happening in punjab is very concerning. Jathedar of sri akaal takth should step up and request for peace from both parties until more information is given out. Every Sikh should be armed in punjab for self defense. Last thing we want to see innocent people/by stander lives being lost like 1984 riots during this fiasco. As i said, panthic bodies should condemn this incident in veinna strongest way possible. Kalyug, you may be right about this might be espionage by GOI to disrupt 25 anniversary of operation blue star but don't also be surprised if this is indeed serious sikh extermist element in the panth who are ought to hijack sipahihood concept in Sikhism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted May 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8066783.stm Apparently the man killed was a self styled Sikh Guru 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 can anyone post facts on this sant? Did he really equated himself with sri guru granth sahib ji? The reports are stating that he preached love and equality and never equated himself with sri guru granth sahib ji. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 What does sant samaj think about this situation? kam anyone? can we fetch official response from sant samaj of killing sant ramanand (ravidas self style guru) ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pr1tpal Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 My massis pind is not far from this Dera Sachkhand, and from what I know, two of the Babai from the Dera were at this Gurdwara in Austria, and the younger one of the two has been shot dead. The dera (as far as i know) has its roots in the Udasin samparda. It has its own website: http://www.sachkhandballan.org/ I cant say I've ever been there, so I don't really know what goes on there. but the majority of the followers are Chamar by caste, due to the fact that the all of the mahants of the dera (as far as i know) have been of that caste. I can see bad times ahead following all this. Lots more dera witch-hunts, singh sabhia vs udasin maybe, and lots of caste based agression with the spotlight being put on practises within Guru Ravidass Gurdwaras. bad times. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 can anyone post facts on this sant? Did he really equated himself with sri guru granth sahib ji? The reports are stating that he preached love and equality and never equated himself with sri guru granth sahib ji. Most dambhis preach love and respect until they gain a large enough following to claim to be equal to the Gurus. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Joker Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 The shootings where out of order! I dont think in this day and age you can go around killing anybody disrespecting your religion. These shootings has made us seem like the Muslim extremist or maybe worse because 'caste' is involved. When the nirankari cult was disprespecting Guru Granth Sahib Sikhs took to peaceful means of protest. Untill finaly they raised the sword after the events of the massacre. Todays self styled 'sikhs' are quick in wanting to kill someone over the smallest 'beadbi' Seems to me like a dirty game of politics though where religion is used as a tool to cause divides. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaljug Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Babbar Khalsa Condemns killing of Sant Rama Nand: http://www.punjabnewsline.com/content/view/16830/38/ Neo, I believe that the head of a Ravidas dera (Gaddi-Nishan) is considered a guru, but on their websites and such they are always referred to as Sant. Some European papers have confused the issue by referring to the dead Ravidasi Sant as Shri Guru Ravidas Sabha. The rumour is that this guy sat level with the Sri Guru Granth Sahib and asked people to matha tek to him. If that's the case, I'm not sure why the Sikhs could not sit this guy down and explain that this is disrespectful. I suppose we will just have to wait for things to calm down and for the full facts to come out. If you read many of the discussion forums from Indian newspapers (e.g., rediff.com), many people believe that the violence is being fomented by Congress-paid goondas to solidify their rule in Punjab. Regards, K. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 oh come on you dont shot people because they sit at the same level as Guru Granth Sahib.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted May 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 My personal view based on the limited info I have is that he should not have been shot. If he did a beadbi even then he did not deserve to be killed unless he has killed or physically hurt Sikhs himself first. A Sikh should only use violence as a reaction to violence. A Sikh should not be the first one to start with violence. If he sat at the same level as Guru Granth Sahib Jee, I think that faithful loyal Sikhs of Guru Granth Sahib Jee should have gone over to him and explained to him in a civilised manner that he is doing wrong. Killing the man only made us look like extremists like Muslims, and that is not a repuation we want or should have. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 sikhs of today are not civilised.. they are barbarians.. i dont think anyone of you can mention a country in the west where there has'nt been sikh fightings.. its a shame 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted May 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 If you read many of the discussion forums from Indian newspapers (e.g., rediff.com), many people believe that the violence is being fomented by Congress-paid goondas to solidify their rule in Punjab. Regards, K. The only reason I think people are blaiming the Congress is because they are our favourite scapegoats. When ever there are caste based riots in north India there is always a hand of Bahujan Samaj Party (BSP) or the communists involved. The BSP is heavily dominated by people belonging to the Chamar caste. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 I just don't understand why can't we acknowledge that our panth have ultra extremist hostile elements who would kill innocent people to prove a point or statement just like Muslims have talibans/ alqueida?? Why we always like to put GOI spin on to this? While speculations are fine but as soon it becomes trend and then obviously there is an issue. Catholic Christians have vatican, we have Sri Akaal Takth Sahib. We do have a voice. These ultra extermist hostile elements who killed this baba (pakhandi or not) and hurt innocent people at least should have tried peaceful means ie- approaching Jathedars sahiban of Sri Akaal Takth Sahib and any other tatkh sahib for possible peaceful solution instead of becoming self styled soorma's bought stigma to Sikhs worldwide. I bet you media is hungry for these type of news. May be not in Canada, but for sure European union will have second thoughts of allowing sikhs to wear kirpan in public places. As i said earlier, use a damn brick next time if you cannot help it and deal with law afterwards. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaljug Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Fateh! By the by, not all of the people at rediff.com who are accusing the Congress party of playing an underhand role in the roubles are Sikhs. Whether the accusations are true are not, no one knows yet. There is an interesting perspective on sikhsangat.com by a poster called ghorandar who I believe is posting from Punjab. Regards, K. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaljug Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Fateh! Akal Takht Jathedar appeals for peace: http://www.punjabnewsline.com/content/view/16831/38/ Post 130 on the sikhsangat.com thread about this situation has some information on this dead Ravidasi Sant from SunnySinghDoad: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showto...4491&st=120 Scroll down to post 130. There are uncomfirmed rumours of a saroop of Sri Guru Granth Sahib being set alight in Jalandhar. If true, and the crime was committed by one of this Sant's followers, it is likely to create a permanent rift between mainstream Sikhs and Ravidasi Sikhs. I hope it's not the case. Perhaps I am being a paranoid fool, but I can't help but think that this was planned by some nefarious people to draw attention away from commemorating 1984. Regards, K, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 can someone from here post on sikhsangat to those who like to spread rumors like- ravidasa will attack darbar sahib or burnt sri guru granth sahib ji or 3 singhs were killed without any source to hold off and think before typing such stuff. Even though intentions might be good, but all this is doing breading more hatred among both parties, youths. Please ask them provide sources of any kind of blunt news they post, they are not doing any good, they are adding more fuel to the fire which is totally unneeded at this moment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaljug Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 can someone from here post on sikhsangat to those who like to spread rumors like- ravidasa will attack darbar sahib or burnt sri guru granth sahib ji or 3 singhs were killed without any source to hold off and think before typing such stuff. Even though intentions might be good, but all this is doing breading more hatred among both parties, youths. Please ask them provide sources of any kind of blunt news they post, they are not doing any good, they are adding more fuel to the fire which is totally unneeded at this moment. Fateh, Veer ji! The 3 dead Singhs were reported in punjabnewsonline.com. It's the only source for it so far that I have seen. I will relay your message though. K. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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