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Meaning of Mahakaal Shabad?

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Guru Da Sikh,

you wrote:

Based on your analyzes, I am NOT surprised at all that you boys will interpret (Kali, Bhavani, Mahakal, Chandi, Durga and any other name Raam, Shyam or Kal listed in Dasam Granth) as GOD himself.

No one has interpreted all these labels as god himself but attributes of god. Actually you just contradicted yourself when you accuse of others that they are using labels of (Kali, Bhavani, Mahakal, Chandi, Durga and any other name Raam, Shyam or Kal listed in Dasam Granth) as God but you said - god himself which implies you yourself bind god as masculine entity.

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Based on your analyzes, I am NOT surprised at all that you boys will interpret (Kali, Bhavani, Mahakal, Chandi, Durga and any other name Raam, Shyam or Kal listed in Dasam Granth) as GOD himself.

Give as refrence from dasam granth wherein the above named are referred as God? Do not beat about the bush and do not run away. Give refrences.

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Guru Da Sikh,

you wrote:

No one has interpreted all these labels as god himself but attributes of god. Actually you just contradicted yourself when you accuse of others that they are using labels of (Kali, Bhavani, Mahakal, Chandi, Durga and any other name Raam, Shyam or Kal listed in Dasam Granth) as God but you said - god himself which implies you yourself bind god as masculine entity.

It’s NOT MY INTERPRETATION. Even MoolMantar tells you the same (Karta NOT Karti, Purkh NOT Mayee).

I am sure if you were to search Gurbani you will find various shabads where Gurbani refers to GOD HIMSLEF in Masculine entity. Look for the words ‘Khasam Hamara’.

Please DON’T tell me now that Guru ji made a mistake.

Just to help your search, look in Sri Guru Granth Sahib: (Page 212 ) aiso hai rae khasam hamaaraa || Such is my Lord and Master (Page 376 ) avinaasee avigath agochar sadhaa salaamath khasam hamaaraa ||1|| rehaao || Imperishable, Unshakable, Unapproachable and forever safe and sound is my Husband Lord (NOT WIFE QUEEN). ||1||Pause|| (Page 384 ) anadh binodhee khasam hamaaraa ||3|| My Husband Lord is blissful and playful. ||3||

If you need more proof, I can post more.

Is Mahakal feminine?

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I am sure if you were to search Gurbani you will find various shabads where Gurbani refers to GOD HIMSLEF in Masculine entity.

ਤੂੰ ਮੇਰਾ ਪਿਤਾ ਤੂੰਹੈ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਾਤਾ ॥ Panna 103

ਜਿਉ ਬਾਰਿਕ ਮਾਤਾ ਸੰਮਾਰੇ ॥ Panna 105

ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਮਾਤਾ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਪਿਤਾ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰਾ ॥ Panna 250

Who is ਮਾਤਾ here?

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ਤੂੰ ਮੇਰਾ ਪਿਤਾ ਤੂੰਹੈ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਾਤਾ ॥ Panna 103

ਜਿਉ ਬਾਰਿਕ ਮਾਤਾ ਸੰਮਾਰੇ ॥ Panna 105

ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਮਾਤਾ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਪਿਤਾ ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਪਰਮੇਸੁਰਾ ॥ Panna 250

Who is ਮਾਤਾ here?

Laalsingh? Apnee akll daa devaalaa keo kad-daa?

That quote says Mayraa Maataa. Not mayree maataa.

Mayraa is masculine unless you are a bhaiyaa.

Bhaiyas speak the opposite.

They will say, "Sardar Jee! Kee Kardee Haigee?"

and say, "Bibi Ji! Kee Kardaa Haigaa?'

However, since it is mayraa maataa it is masculine though.

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Laalsingh? Apnee akll daa devaalaa keo kad-daa?

So called Khalsa ji, you may have 'akll', but I don't have any akll, only His.

Mayraa is masculine unless you are a bhaiyaa.

You get hyper whenever your ego hurts a little and starts calling names. I don't mind being called bhayaa or kaala or chura or whatever you want. :D

And since when 'maata' is masculine? You call her ਮੇਰਾ ਜਾਂ ਮੇਰੀ, it doesn't matter.

ਪੰਨਾ 74, ਸਤਰ 5

ਬੋਲਾਇਆ ਬੋਲੀ ਖਸਮ ਦਾ ॥

Is ਬੋਲੀ masculine? but still called ਦਾ. As per your definition, what were Gurus then? As per you, shouldn't it be ਬੋਲਾਈ ਬੋਲੀ ਖਸਮ ਦੀ?

What about ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ?

ਜੇ ਏਹ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਸਾਚੀ ਹੈ ਤਉ ਗੜ੍ਹਣਹਾਰੇ ਖਾਉ ॥੩॥ Panna 479

Isn't ਮੂਰਤਿ faminine in this tuk?

ਪੰਨਾ 596, ਸਤਰ 13

ਸਗਲ ਭਵਣ ਕੀ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਏਕਾ ਮੁਖਿ ਤੇਰੈ ਟਕਸਾਲਾ ॥੧॥ Panna 596

Yours is the one and only form of the entire universe; Your mouth is the mint to fashion all. ||1||

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Laalsingh? Apnee akll daa devaalaa keo kad-daa?

That quote says Mayraa Maataa. Not mayree maataa.

Mayraa is masculine unless you are a bhaiyaa.

Bhaiyas speak the opposite.

They will say, "Sardar Jee! Kee Kardee Haigee?"

and say, "Bibi Ji! Kee Kardaa Haigaa?'

However, since it is mayraa maataa it is masculine though.

Good point.

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So called Khalsa ji, you may have 'akll', but I don't have any akll, only His.

You get hyper whenever your ego hurts a little and starts calling names. I don't mind being called bhayaa or kaala or chura or whatever you want. :D

And since when 'maata' is masculine? You call her ਮੇਰਾ ਜਾਂ ਮੇਰੀ, it doesn't matter.

ਪੰਨਾ 74, ਸਤਰ 5

ਬੋਲਾਇਆ ਬੋਲੀ ਖਸਮ ਦਾ ॥

Is ਬੋਲੀ masculine? but still called ਦਾ. As per your definition, what were Gurus then? As per you, shouldn't it be ਬੋਲਾਈ ਬੋਲੀ ਖਸਮ ਦੀ?

What about ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ?

ਜੇ ਏਹ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਸਾਚੀ ਹੈ ਤਉ ਗੜ੍ਹਣਹਾਰੇ ਖਾਉ ॥੩॥ Panna 479

Isn't ਮੂਰਤਿ faminine in this tuk?

ਪੰਨਾ 596, ਸਤਰ 13

ਸਗਲ ਭਵਣ ਕੀ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਏਕਾ ਮੁਖਿ ਤੇਰੈ ਟਕਸਾਲਾ ॥੧॥ Panna 596

Yours is the one and only form of the entire universe; Your mouth is the mint to fashion all. ||1||

Bayeee ji, Devaala tan niklya hoya !

Bayee Laal Sian, thora bahut par tan lea kar, evenhe kuji vichon banta chak ke bhaj pena ate kehan lag pena key heera labh leya! Anvain saaryan da tam kharaab kari jana

Please read Prof. Sahib Singh ji’s analysis and you would have never made this claim.

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No one has interpreted all these labels as god himself but attributes of god. Actually you just contradicted yourself when you accuse of others that they are using labels of (Kali, Bhavani, Mahakal, Chandi, Durga and any other name Raam, Shyam or Kal listed in Dasam Granth) as God but you said - god himself which implies you yourself bind god as masculine entity.

It’s NOT MY INTERPRETATION. Even MoolMantar tells you the same (Karta NOT Karti, Purkh NOT Mayee).

I am sure if you were to search Gurbani you will find various shabads where Gurbani refers to GOD HIMSLEF in Masculine entity. Look for the words ‘Khasam Hamara’.

Please DON’T tell me now that Guru ji made a mistake.

Just to help your search, look in Sri Guru Granth Sahib: (Page 212 ) aiso hai rae khasam hamaaraa || Such is my Lord and Master (Page 376 ) avinaasee avigath agochar sadhaa salaamath khasam hamaaraa ||1|| rehaao || Imperishable, Unshakable, Unapproachable and forever safe and sound is my Husband Lord (NOT WIFE QUEEN). ||1||Pause|| (Page 384 ) anadh binodhee khasam hamaaraa ||3|| My Husband Lord is blissful and playful. ||3||

If you need more proof, I can post more.

Is Mahakal feminine?

Ever heard of metaphor? If you bother reading mool mantar carefully- sidhant is totally laid out when maharaj says: ajooni. God does not take birth. Therefore, god cannot be he or she. It's only attributes of God which are sometimes masculine or sometimes feminine and sometimes both. You binded god yourself but using "him" . One cannot say god is him or her but rightly say- god's attributes can be pursh/purkh or ishtri.

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The Khhasam metaphor is derived from Sufi thought, Guru Sahiban adopted this as one of many well languages (religious) to reach out to the populace.

Male/female are material Sarguna attributes, how can Ajooni Nirankaar Parmatma be limited by gender?

In Shahee-Shahaan-Shah Guru Gobind Singhs Jaap Sahib we find:

ਨਮੋ ਪਰਮ ਗਿਆਤਾ ॥ ਨਮੋ ਲੋਕ ਮਾਤਾ ॥੫੨॥

Oh, I just remembered, you will probably say that Jaap Sahib is not Gurbani or is An-Tie Gurmat or something, so here you go.

Here is the perfect tuk from Aad Guru for you to do abhyaas and vichaar on:

ਭੂਲਹਿ ਚੂਕਹਿ ਬਾਰਿਕ ਤੂੰ ਹਰਿ ਪਿਤਾ ਮਾਇਆ ॥੧॥

Guru Arjun Dev Ji Maharaj

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Show me Guru Granth Sahib Ji quote where Kaal or Mahakaal is used for God. What is your definition of functional names? Any names describing actions that occur? Kaal is death, mahakaal is an even worse death, spiritual death and Gurbani says to stay away from Mahakaal. Why would Guru Ji tell us to stay away from Mahakaal if it is God or an attribute of God? Clearly, you are just making general statements to proveyourself. How does God get 4 arms since God doesn't have any attributes? Read bachitter natak which says that God has 4 arms. Quote is chatur baah chaarung. Look it up.

You are the one who doens't understand. That quote is talking about the union betweent he soul and God. It has nothing to do with physical attributes. Any time you say God has arms or grinding teeth, you go against Mool Mantar's philosophy of Nirankaar, Akaal Moorat.

Look up metaphor, analogy, and simile in a dictionary or take a course in basic literary criticism, because these are used many times in bani.

Why are you guys debating a granth none of you have actually read from head to toe?

Does a granth have a head and toes, then?

Regards,

K.

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Bayee Laal Sian, thora bahut par tan lea kar, evenhe kuji vichon banta chak ke bhaj pena ate kehan lag pena key heera labh leya! Anvain saaryan da tam kharaab kari jana

You described me perfectly. Gurbani is like heera found for me.

Is ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ famine or masculine? You already tam kharaab calling people names and slandering banis. I think explaining mool mantar to kid like me wo'nt be waste of time.

As per Bhai Sahib singh

ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ = ਸ਼ਬਦ 'ਮੂਰਤਿ' ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਲਿੰਗ ਹੈ.

N3O said almost everything what can be said about this famine/masculine issue

Ever heard of metaphor? If you bother reading mool mantar carefully- sidhant is totally laid out when maharaj says: ajooni. God does not take birth. Therefore, god cannot be he or she. It's only attributes of God which are sometimes masculine or sometimes feminine and sometimes both. You binded god yourself but using "him" . One cannot say god is him or her but rightly say- god's attributes can be pursh/purkh or ishtri.

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ਮਹਾ ਕਾਲੁ—ਭਿਆਨਕ ਆਤਮਕ ਮੌਤ

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all and The Khalsa Fauj Jee!

May I ask if you have ever experienced Mahaa Kaal or you have read about Mahaa Kaal?

You wrote "Mahaa Kaal-Bhiaanak Aatmak Maot."

I have heard that Aatmaa does not die. Is this the translation from a Sikh?

-----

ਅਨਿਕ ਜੋਨਿ ਜਨਮਹਿ ਮਰਹਿ ਆਤਮ ਰਾਮੁ ਨ ਚੀਨ ॥

अनिक जोनि जनमहि मरहि आतम रामु न चीन ॥

'anik joni janmahi marahi aatam raamu na cheen'. SGGS Ang 254-12

Saakat through many incarnations gets birth and dies, does not recognize Aatam Raamu.

The above Vaak explains that the Saakat gets birth and dies. Aatam accompanies one through all incarnations.

Balbir Singh

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Fauj, just out of interest, who do you believe the term Mahakaal refers to in this Tuk.

ਜਪਿ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਗੋਪਾਲ ਲਾਲੁ ॥

ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਤੂ ਜੀਵਹਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਨ ਖਾਈ ਮਹਾ ਕਾਲੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Is Maha Kaal a seperate entity from Akaal, is it not Mahakaal at all and just means death, or is Maha Kaal and Akaal one and the same?

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Show me Guru Granth Sahib Ji quote where Kaal or Mahakaal is used for God. What is your definition of functional names? Any names describing actions that occur? Kaal is death, mahakaal is an even worse death, spiritual death and Gurbani says to stay away from Mahakaal. Why would Guru Ji tell us to stay away from Mahakaal if it is God or an attribute of God?

Mahakal is another name of God and an attribute. Gurbani does say to keep away from Mahakal. An easier way of looking at it is, If you get on God's bad side e.g through sin, your going to experience his wrath a punishment for sins.

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God transcends dualities like gender:

ਸੁੰਨ ਮੰਡਲ ਇਕੁ ਜੋਗੀ ਬੈਸੇ ॥ ਨਾਰਿ ਨ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਕਹਹੁ ਕੋਊ ਕੈਸੇ ॥ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਜੋਤਿ ਰਹੇ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਈ ॥ ਸੁਰਿ ਨਰ ਨਾਥ ਸਚੇ ਸਰਣਾਈ ॥: Sunn mandal ik Yogi baise. Naar na purakh kahahu kou kaise. Tribhavan joti rahe liv laaee. Sur nar naath sache saranaaee: The Yogi, the Primal Lord, sits in the Realm of Absolute Stillness (state free of mind's wanderings or Phurne). (Since God) is neither male nor female; how can anyone describe Him? The three worlds center their attention on His Light. The godly beings and the Yogic masters seek the Sanctuary of this True Lord (sggs 685).

# ਆਪੇ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਆਪੇ ਹੀ ਨਾਰੀ ॥: Aape purakh aape hee naaree: You Yourself are the male, and You Yourself are the female (sggs 1020).

# ਆਪੇ ਨਰੁ ਆਪੇ ਫੁਨਿ ਨਾਰੀ ਆਪੇ ਸਾਰਿ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਪਾਸਾ ॥: Aapae nar aape fun naaree aape saar aap hee paasaa: He Himself is male, and He Himself is female; He Himself is the chessman, and He Himself is the board (sggs 1403).

These shabads prove that God has both masculine and feminine attributes, they do not preclude calling God by a feminine name. Additionally, regarding God's roop, the last shabad shows that he is in all forms, and not just bound to one.

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Saying God has 4 arms sure isn't Gurmat because then God is no longer Nirankaar.

Some people don't understand Sargun and Nirgun and keep repeating themselves without reading posts.

Once again for final time:

Nirgun = Without the three elements or Maaya (Above maayaa)

Sargun = Sarab Srayst (greatest of all, most inspiring)

How do any of those two defintions above fit into 4 arms?

Balbir Singh Ji!

Say Sat Sri AKaal

Jee Aayan Nu, Jee Aayan Nu

Mahakaal = great death = death worse than physical death = spiritual death or aatmac death

How can it mean God in any circumstances then?

You have a frog, you attack maha in front of it.

It will become maha dadoo meaning the biggest daddu.

It will not become opposite of daddu and become dadduless.

More harsh example,

moorakh

You add maha in front of a person who is moorakh

It will only become maha moorakh meaning even a bigger moorakh.

Same way, adding maha in front of kaal only makes it a bigger death which is spiritual death. There is nothing worse than spiritual death in Gurmat. Physical death comes to everyone, it is part of nature and life. Gurmat doesn't consider it death because that death is the death which unites us with the Lord if we bhagat karam, however if we are busy reading or promoting third party books, then that death is really bad because chance to meet God is lost.

Look up metaphor, analogy, and simile in a dictionary or take a course in basic literary criticism, because these are used many times in bani.

I sure know what those are. You aren't going to use fire to represent cold by any means unless you are lost. Instead of these cheap shots, why don't you study Gurbani and bring the quote where Mahakaal is used for God. It is hard to debate with illeterate people who have never read or understood Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Mahakal is another name of God and an attribute. Gurbani does say to keep away from Mahakal. An easier way of looking at it is, If you get on God's bad side e.g through sin, your going to experience his wrath a punishment for sins.

When did God develop a bad side? There is nothing bad about God.

Gurbani says, whatever God does is great.

Brahmgyani Tay Kash Buraa Na Bhaeaa ||

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God transcends dualities like gender:

ਸੁੰਨ ਮੰਡਲ ਇਕੁ ਜੋਗੀ ਬੈਸੇ ॥ ਨਾਰਿ ਨ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਕਹਹੁ ਕੋਊ ਕੈਸੇ ॥ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣ ਜੋਤਿ ਰਹੇ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਈ ॥ ਸੁਰਿ ਨਰ ਨਾਥ ਸਚੇ ਸਰਣਾਈ ॥: Sunn mandal ik Yogi baise. Naar na purakh kahahu kou kaise. Tribhavan joti rahe liv laaee. Sur nar naath sache saranaaee: The Yogi, the Primal Lord, sits in the Realm of Absolute Stillness (state free of mind's wanderings or Phurne). (Since God) is neither male nor female; how can anyone describe Him? The three worlds center their attention on His Light. The godly beings and the Yogic masters seek the Sanctuary of this True Lord (sggs 685).

# ਆਪੇ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਆਪੇ ਹੀ ਨਾਰੀ ॥: Aape purakh aape hee naaree: You Yourself are the male, and You Yourself are the female (sggs 1020).

# ਆਪੇ ਨਰੁ ਆਪੇ ਫੁਨਿ ਨਾਰੀ ਆਪੇ ਸਾਰਿ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਪਾਸਾ ॥: Aapae nar aape fun naaree aape saar aap hee paasaa: He Himself is male, and He Himself is female; He Himself is the chessman, and He Himself is the board (sggs 1403).

These shabads prove that God has both masculine and feminine attributes, they do not preclude calling God by a feminine name. Additionally, regarding God's roop, the last shabad shows that he is in all forms, and not just bound to one.

Don't use Gurbani quotes you don't understand. It is like you guys are getting knowledge of Gurmat without putting in any effort.

# ਆਪੇ ਨਰੁ ਆਪੇ ਫੁਨਿ ਨਾਰੀ ਆਪੇ ਸਾਰਿ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਪਾਸਾ ॥: Aapae nar aape fun naaree aape saar aap hee paasaa: He Himself is male, and He Himself is female; He Himself is the chessman, and He Himself is the board (sggs 1403).

This quote is from Bhatt Swayas. Like I said before, there isn't a proper teekaa available of BHatt Swayas so please refrain from using one or two lines from there. Also, I don't have time to go through the whole shabad at the moment. Once we release the proper teekaa of bhatt swayas, we will be able to get proper answers of that quote. Proper teekaa of Sidh Goast at the moment is being worked on. Bhatt Swayas are probably next. Other than that, Bhatt swayas aren't something to be understood in a second. It takes time to understand them.

Also, God gave roop to everything. We don't pray to that roop. We pray to what Japuji Sahib says to pray to:

Ades Tisai Ades

Aaad Aniil Anaad Anaahat

Juog Juog Eko Vays

There are many shabads in Guru Granth Sahib Ji for which we don't have proper aarths. How could we spend time and have proper arths when we can't get out of third party books?

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The Khalsa Fauj:

Saying God has 4 arms sure isn't Gurmat because then God is no longer Nirankaar.

Why are you guys debating a granth none of you have actually read from head to toe?

So, saying a granth has a head and toes means it's not a book? Or is it a figure of speech? It's clear that you have no idea how similes, metaphors, analogies, allusions and figurative speech work, despite your claims that you do. This is not a cheap shot, it's actually an illustration of your inability to think in any but literal terms.

When Maradona claimed that it was the Hand of God that enabled him to score the winning goal in the World Cup, he wasn't talking about a big hand coming out of the sky and tapping the ball into the net.

Some people don't understand Sargun and Nirgun and keep repeating themselves without reading posts.

Once again for final time:

Nirgun = Without the three elements or Maaya (Above maayaa)

Sargun = Sarab Srayst (greatest of all, most inspiring)

Your translation of these two terms is incorrect and has no basis in historical etymology.

Mahakaal = great death = death worse than physical death = spiritual death or aatmac death

How can it mean God in any circumstances then?

See above. Now you are just being silly and dramatic.

Same way, adding maha in front of kaal only makes it a bigger death which is spiritual death. There is nothing worse than spiritual death in Gurmat. Physical death comes to everyone, it is part of nature and life. Gurmat doesn't consider it death because that death is the death which unites us with the Lord if we bhagat karam, however if we are busy reading or promoting third party books, then that death is really bad because chance to meet God is lost.

Aatman does not die according to Gurbani.

I sure know what those are. You aren't going to use fire to represent cold by any means unless you are lost. Instead of these cheap shots, why don't you study Gurbani and bring the quote where Mahakaal is used for God. It is hard to debate with illeterate people who have never read or understood Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Have you never heard of cold burns? :LOL: It's amusing that you call people illiterate when it's completely evident from your post that your reading comprehension is non-existent. Perhaps if you spent some time reading fiction and poetry instead of posting nonsensical statements in every thread, you might be able to understand these things.

Regards,

K.

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So, saying a granth has a head and toes means it's not a book? Or is it a figure of speech? It's clear that you have no idea how similes, metaphors, analogies, allusions and figurative speech work, despite your claims that you do. This is not a cheap shot, it's actually an illustration of your inability to think in any but literal terms.

When Maradona claimed that it was the Hand of God that enabled him to score the winning goal in the World Cup, he wasn't talking about a big hand coming out of the sky and tapping the ball into the net.

God’s hand means help and it isn’t hard to understand. Saying God’s hand or arm helped me means God helped me extensively. It doesn’t mean there are physical characteristics of God. Like I said before, stop linking two completely different things together. I don’t know why it is so hard to understand. Saying God extended arm to help me is an expression widely used when 4 arms comes from Hinduism and is a literal term. A person who can’t distinguish between literal and metaphorical isn’t a scholar or vidvaan.

Your translation of these two terms is incorrect and has no basis in historical etymology.

You can keep doing aarths to Hindu mat and keep falling in trap. Choice is yours. No wonder you believe in Dasam Granth.

See above. Now you are just being silly and dramatic.

Very easy to dodge question by saying silly and dramatic when you are the one being silly by saying there is no difference between saying God has 4 hand and saying God’s hand protected me. One is clearly literal and the other is clearly an expression.

Like I said, bring your game to proper debate on live TV or live radio. We will let callers decide who is silly and dramatic and who isn’t.

Aatman does not die according to Gurbani.

Jehdi jamiir mar jaandee, ohdi aatmaa mar he jaandee. A soul which is stuck in duality is dead and needs to be awakened.

Have you never heard of cold burns? It's amusing that you call people illiterate when it's completely evident from your post that your reading comprehension is non-existent. Perhaps if you spent some time reading fiction and poetry instead of posting nonsensical statements in every thread, you might be able to understand these things.

Cold is the cause for the physical ailment while burning is the sensation experienced by the person. Maybe you should read Gurbani and you will know the difference between Gurbani which is pooran sach and Dasam Granth (an anti-Gurmat book).

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all and The Khalsa Fauj Jee!

You wrote "Saying God has 4 arms sure isn't Gurmat because then God is no longer Nirankaar."

Please provide the reference of the above with page and line. I will be thankful.

You wrote "Mahakaal = great death = death worse than physical death = spiritual death or aatmac death

How can it mean God in any circumstances then?"

Please take some time and explain. Why is Kaal death and Mahaa Kaal is aatmac death?

You wrote "Once again for final time:

Nirgun = Without the three elements or Maaya (Above maayaa)

Sargun = Sarab Srayst (greatest of all, most inspiring)"

Guru Arjan Dev Jee is singing.

ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਆਕਾਰ ਆਪਿ ਨਿਰਗੁਨ ਸਰਗੁਨ ਏਕ ॥

निरंकार आकार आपि निरगुन सरगुन एक ॥

nirankaar aakaar aap nirgun sargun ayk. SGGS Ang 250-11

Is Mahaa Kaal something else than Sargun God Himself?

Balbir Singh

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Khalsa Fauj:

You can keep doing aarths to Hindu mat and keep falling in trap. Choice is yours. No wonder you believe in Dasam Granth.

Etymology not Hindu Mat. You reinvent the meanings of words for your own purposes and then have the gall to whine about no one understanding you?

Very easy to dodge question by saying silly and dramatic when you are the one being silly by saying there is no difference between saying God has 4 hand and saying God’s hand protected me. One is clearly literal and the other is clearly an expression.

There was no question, you were just making up completely idiotic meanings for expressions you clearly do not understand. It's clear to every single person, except you, reading these threads that the only one dodging questions and changing subjects every 2nd post is you.

Jehdi jamiir mar jaandee, ohdi aatmaa mar he jaandee. A soul which is stuck in duality is dead and needs to be awakened.

Absolute rubbish. Atman does not die because one is unaware of it, no more than the moon ceases to exist when the sun comes out.

Cold is the cause for the physical ailment while burning is the sensation experienced by the person. Maybe you should read Gurbani and you will know the difference between Gurbani which is pooran sach and Dasam Granth (an anti-Gurmat book).

Blah blah blah.

Let me know when you and your fellow missionary nincompoops are on Jerry Springer and I'll be sure to tune in.

K.

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The Khalsa Fauji you wrote:

Jehdi jamiir mar jaandee, ohdi aatmaa mar he jaandee. A soul which is stuck in duality is dead and needs to be awakened.

Gurbani says otherwise atma :

Atma paratma iko karaie antar ki dubta antar mein maraie ||

ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਦੀਸੈ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਏਕੁ ਏਕੁ ਵਖਾਣੀਐ ॥

breham dheesai breham suneeai eaek eaek vakhaaneeai ||

ਆਤਮ ਪਸਾਰਾ ਕਰਣਹਾਰਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੀਐ ॥

aatham pasaaraa karanehaaraa prabh binaa nehee jaaneeai ||

Acharcj Katha Maha Anoop

Paratma parbhram ka roop ||

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The Khalsa Fauji you wrote:

Gurbani says otherwise atma :

Atma paratma iko karaie antar ki dubta antar mein maraie ||

ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਦੀਸੈ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਏਕੁ ਏਕੁ ਵਖਾਣੀਐ ॥

breham dheesai breham suneeai eaek eaek vakhaaneeai ||

ਆਤਮ ਪਸਾਰਾ ਕਰਣਹਾਰਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਣੀਐ ॥

aatham pasaaraa karanehaaraa prabh binaa nehee jaaneeai ||

Acharcj Katha Maha Anoop

Paratma parbhram ka roop ||

Like I said before, bring live debate. I don't want to get into aatmaa concept now or what aatmaa means. Like I said before, I don't have time to waste here online. Bring game to debate and we can talk there. Someone said I didn't answer shabads about Apay Naaree, the reason is typing aarths and explaining will take too long so I won't bother doing it here. Bring it to the debate and we can talk there. I got other things to do than talk all day online here. It is time to move on. When you guys have a scholar ready to debate, send me an email and we will arrange debate in Toronto area.

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