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The Khalsa Fauj

Meaning of Mahakaal Shabad?

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Inder Singh, you are once again misquoting Guru Granth Sahib Ji's bani. Kartaa never comes or goes. Gurbani says:

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਨਾ ਆਵੈ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥

ਓਹੁ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਹੈ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੧੩॥

ਸਗਲ ਪਰਾਧ ਦੇਹਿ ਲੋਰੋਨੀ ॥ ਸੋ ਮੁਖੁ ਜਲਉ ਜਿਤੁ ਕਹਹਿ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਜੋਨੀ ॥੩॥

ਜਨਮਿ ਨ ਮਰੈ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਰਹਿਓ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੪॥੧॥

How many more quotes do you need? God never comes or goes because there is nothing to come or go to. God is omnipresent. God is present everywhere but it can't be seen by naked eye. Only Gurmukh eye can see it. THose who like to see weird species with 4 arms, etc. etc. They are different.

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Inder Singh, you are once again misquoting Guru Granth Sahib Ji's bani. Kartaa never comes or goes. Gurbani says:

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਨਾ ਆਵੈ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥

ਓਹੁ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਹੈ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੧੩॥

ਸਗਲ ਪਰਾਧ ਦੇਹਿ ਲੋਰੋਨੀ ॥ ਸੋ ਮੁਖੁ ਜਲਉ ਜਿਤੁ ਕਹਹਿ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਜੋਨੀ ॥੩॥

ਜਨਮਿ ਨ ਮਰੈ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਰਹਿਓ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੪॥੧॥

How many more quotes do you need? God never comes or goes because there is nothing to come or go to. God is omnipresent. God is present everywhere but it can't be seen by naked eye. Only Gurmukh eye can see it. THose who like to see weird species with 4 arms, etc. etc. They are different.

Fauji

This is on ang 862 of SGGS ji. Now you are trying to disown this shabad also.

If you are not able to comprehend tat does not mean the shabad is not there.

Read whole shabad

chhakaa 1||

First set of six. ||

raag gond mehlaa 5 cha-upday ghar 1

Raag Gond, Fifth Mehl, Chau-Padas, First House:

ik-oNkaar satgur parsaad.

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

sabh kartaa sabh bhugtaa. ||1|| rahaa-o.

He is the Creator of all, He is the Enjoyer of all. ||1||Pause||

sunto kartaa paykhat kartaa.

The Creator listens, and the Creator sees.

adristo kartaa daristo kartaa.

The Creator is unseen, and the Creator is seen.

opat kartaa parla-o kartaa.

The Creator forms, and the Creator destroys.

bi-aapat kartaa alipato kartaa. ||1||

The Creator touches, and the Creator is detached. ||1||

bakto kartaa boojhat kartaa.

The Creator is the One who speaks, and the Creator is the One who understands.

aavat kartaa jaat bhee kartaa.

The Creator comes, and the Creator also goes.

nirgun kartaa sargun kartaa.

The Creator is absolute and without qualities; the Creator is related, with the most excellent qualities.

gur parsaad naanak samdristaa. ||2||1||

By Guru's Grace, Nanak looks upon all the s

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opat kartaa parla-o kartaa.

The Creator forms, and the Creator destroys.

So when creator destroys he is called mahakal. This is functional name of God.

raam naam simar too jeeveh fir na khaa-ee mahaa kaal. ||1|| rahaa-o.

Meditating in remembrance on the Lord's Name, you shall live, and the Great Death shall not consume you ever again. ||1||Pause||

ang 885 SGGS

ਮਹਾ ਤੇਜ ਤੇਜੰ ਮਹਾ ਜ੍ਵਾਲ ਜ੍ਵਾਲੰ ॥ ਮਹਾ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੰ ਮਹਾ ਕਾਲ ਕਾਲੰ ॥੧੭

महा तेज तेजं महा ज्वाल ज्वालं ॥ महा मंत्र मंत्रं महा काल कालं ॥१७॥

He is the Most Effulgent of all lights and Supreme Conflagration of all fires. He is the Supreme Spell of all incantations and Supreme embodiment of Death over all such powers.17.

Bachitra natak , dasam granth

And also in SGGS ji Guru sahib writes

maDhusoodan daamodar su-aamee.

He is the Slayer of demons, our Supreme Lord and Master.

rikheekays govarDhan Dhaaree murlee manohar har rangaa. ||1||

The Supreme Rishi, the Master of the sensory organs, the uplifter of mountains, the joyful Lord playing His enticing flute. ||1||

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After observing the debates I have observed that these so called anti dasam granth preachers are the prey of their own haumai. They think that they have the brains to interpret the agam agaadh baani of Sri Guru Granth Sahib , and use it as a tool for analyzing the complex baani of Baapu ji.

Our Baapu is a great philosopher, writer and poet. Even saying great is an insult to our baapu ji. He is beyond great...

Just because these fools fail to understand the deep subtleties they think they are right. You can't even teach them because their full of haumai minds wont listen to you but instead try to come up with counter arguments.

Mod's edit. No personal attack please.

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im having a hard time understanding what your argument is. The way i understad it is that you say Dasam Granth worships some demi-god because the name mahakal is mentioned and mahakal is a name of Shiva? Is this correct? In Guru Granth Sahib names such as gopal, mohan, sundar kesa vala etc are mentioned as names of God and these names are names attributed to Krishna among hindus. Do you also have a problem with this? the Gurus used names for God that were already common among people, so i dont see what the problem is when Dasam Granth uses names such as sri asipaan, mahakaal etc..

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"im having a hard time understanding what your argument is."

Lol, thats the whole point, its not their arguement! Its the Bhasauria jad and the Afghani/Gaggu/Darshani phal - the Naastik buta - that these unimaginative folk from CA are parroting!

"I feel that all these manmukh bande should be made to stand in line , beaten up with sticks, I feel that debating with them is useless, I am not a fan of verbal discussion, haramjaadean de jadon shittar paye naa taan saari akl thikane aa jaani a"

I know how you feel, as civil as one tries to be, when you know these people are not interested in real debate i.e. a probability that they may be convinced otherwise, then you know that its useless talking to these hatemongering, preaching, insulting, Victorian minded puritan heretics.

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"im having a hard time understanding what your argument is."

Lol, thats the whole point, its not their arguement! Its the Bhasauria jad and the Afghani/Gaggu/Darshani phal - the Naastik buta - that these unimaginative folk from CA are parroting!

"I feel that all these manmukh bande should be made to stand in line , beaten up with sticks, I feel that debating with them is useless, I am not a fan of verbal discussion, haramjaadean de jadon shittar paye naa taan saari akl thikane aa jaani a"

I know how you feel, as civil as one tries to be, when you know these people are not interested in real debate i.e. a probability that they may be convinced otherwise, then you know that its useless talking to these hatemongering, preaching, insulting, Victorian minded puritan heretics.

They have become self styled scholars being dished out from the thug schools

of kala afghana, darshan ragi ,inder ghagha gurudom. Darshan ragi who used to do kirtan

from a hand written parchi in front of him has become their philosopher. he asked in one of

his hate spewing lecture " Why Khalsa sirjana is not written in Dasam granth sahib"

Most probably it is in audio form on line.

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Amardeep, you need to get more Gurmat gyan and study Gurbani in depth. Then you will know the difference betwee gopaal and kaal. The difference between Hari and Bhagautee. The difference between mush and baydee, the difference between muraree and mahakaal, etc. etc.

The list can go on and on. You don't understand Gurbani fully isn't my issue. You guys keep repeating names such as hari, raam, gopal, etc. appear in Guru Granth Sahib and same is in Dasam Granth. I just got to say that you guys are at level 2/5 of Gurmat study. That is why it would take too long to discuss material here. Many of the posters are just making excuses to defend Dasam granth, in the process, they don't even know if what they are saying is Gurmat or not.

Someone issued threats, dogs keep barking while elephant keeps walking according to his liking. Same way, you guys can keep issuing threats and it won't matter. Since when did shers become scared of backstabber bakrees? By the way, whoever issues threat, please give me your name if you are a human. Give me your full name.

Raagmaala, give me your full name if you are such a sher. You people issue threats online but can't say a word when in public. Issuing threats isn't Gurmat anyways so it shows your Gurmat gyan. Threats are given by gundas and badmashs. Guru Kay Pyare follow:

ਭੈ ਕਾਹੂ ਕਉ ਦੇਤ ਨਹਿ ਨਹਿ ਭੈ ਮਾਨਤ ਆਨ ॥ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਸੁਨਿ ਰੇ ਮਨਾ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਤਾਹਿ ਬਖਾਨਿ ॥ ੧੬॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੧੪੨੭}

Bhai Kaahoo Kao Dayt Nahe Nahe Bhai Maanat Aan || Kahu Nanak Suon Ray Mnaa Geaanee Tahe Bakhaan || 16|

One who doesn’t scare anyone and isn’t scared of anyone else, says Nanak, make your mind accept such a person to be a spiritually wise person.

That is all I got to say for now.

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Amardeep, you need to get more Gurmat gyan and study Gurbani in depth. Then you will know the difference betwee gopaal and kaal. The difference between Hari and Bhagautee. The difference between mush and baydee, the difference between muraree and mahakaal, etc. etc.

The list can go on and on. You don't understand Gurbani fully isn't my issue. You guys keep repeating names such as hari, raam, gopal, etc. appear in Guru Granth Sahib and same is in Dasam Granth. I just got to say that you guys are at level 2/5 of Gurmat study. That is why it would take too long to discuss material here.

Please enlighten us then. What is the difference between gopal, Krishna, Ram Hari and Mahakaal in terms of names used for God ??

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all!

Here is only God or His activity.

There is nothing.

Mahaakaal is HIS Activity.

It does not have a meaning.

Meaning is mind's deviation.

That gives false satisfaction.

Balbir Singh

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Please enlighten us then. What is the difference between gopal, Krishna, Ram Hari and Mahakaal in terms of names used for God ??

Just read description of Mahakaal as posted by Inder and also understand what Raam, Hari, etc. mean. Other than that, you can come to Toronto and we can talk here. I don't have time to go through each word here. It would be too long. Other than that, get enlightenment from Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

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Amardeep singh ji

This is what i wrote about mahakal in post no 70

Mahakal is a functional name of God. If God is kind to us he is called dayal,

If God is taking care in bringing us up, He is called Gopal.

If God brings about destruction of us in the form of death he is called Mahakal.

All these names have been used in both SGGS ji and dasam granth sahib.

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Well, if you don't see difference. You need to do deeper study of either Guru Granth Sahib Ji or Dasam Granth, depending which you think you lack knowledge of. If you are in Toronto, we can talk some time in person and go over Dasam Granth and definition of God.

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In Guru Granth Sahib, Guru Arjun Dev Ji writes the following Shabad where Akaal Purakh is named as Shiva, its interesting to note that the Guru statS "tera roop sagal dekh mohi", that people see his roop and become attached to it, so the Guru is reffering to a sargun saroop and not nirgun saroop. For the sake of integrity, I have posted the full shabad and not one liners.

ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥

Gauree, Fifth Mehl:

ਤੁਝ ਬਿਨੁ ਕਵਨੁ ਰੀਝਾਵੈ ਤੋਹੀ ॥

Who can please You, except You Yourself?

ਤੇਰੋ ਰੂਪੁ ਸਗਲ ਦੇਖਿ ਮੋਹੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Gazing upon Your Beauteous Form, all are entranced. ||1||Pause||

ਸੁਰਗ ਪਇਆਲ ਮਿਰਤ ਭੂਅ ਮੰਡਲ ਸਰਬ ਸਮਾਨੋ ਏਕੈ ਓਹੀ ॥

In the heavenly paradise, in the nether regions of the underworld, on the planet earth and throughout the galaxies, the One Lord is pervading everywhere.

ਸਿਵ ਸਿਵ ਕਰਤ ਸਗਲ ਕਰ ਜੋਰਹਿ ਸਰਬ ਮਇਆ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਤੇਰੀ ਦੋਹੀ ॥੧॥

Everyone calls upon You with their palms pressed together, saying, "Shiva, Shiva". O Merciful Lord and Master, everyone cries out for Your Help. ||1||

ਪਤਿਤ ਪਾਵਨ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੁਮਰਾ ਸੁਖਦਾਈ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਸੀਤਲੋਹੀ ॥

Your Name, O Lord and Master, is the Purifier of sinners, the Giver of peace, immaculate, cooling and soothing.

ਗਿਆਨ ਧਿਆਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਵਡਿਆਈ ਸੰਤ ਤੇਰੇ ਸਿਉ ਗਾਲ ਗਲੋਹੀ ॥੨॥੮॥੧੨੯॥

O Nanak, spiritual wisdom, meditation and glorious greatness come from dialogue and discourse with Your Saints. ||2||8||129||

If fauji can accept that Bhagauti is not the sword/chandi and instead reffers to Akaal Purakh, can he accept that Shiva is the comfort giving roop of God? If he can accept Shiva reffers to the comfort giver, can he then accept that Mahakaal is the roop which brings the destruction of everything?

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Well, if you don't see difference. You need to do deeper study of either Guru Granth Sahib Ji or Dasam Granth, depending which you think you lack knowledge of. If you are in Toronto, we can talk some time in person and go over Dasam Granth and definition of God.

This is not proper answer. His question is

I dont see any difference between the definition of mahakaal in Dasam Granth and the definition given of God in Guru Granth Sahib. please enlighten us, you seem to have all the answers

Answer that. Otherwise admit that you are not able to answer.

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In Guru Granth Sahib, Guru Arjun Dev Ji writes the following Shabad where Akaal Purakh is named as Shiva, its interesting to note that the Guru statS "tera roop sagal dekh mohi", that people see his roop and become attached to it, so the Guru is reffering to a sargun saroop and not nirgun saroop. For the sake of integrity, I have posted the full shabad and not one liners.

Thanks maha singh ji for giving a beautiful sahbad. in the shabad it is SIVA. It denotes the One Formless and Timeless Divine Factor that pervades all creation.

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Shiva is written as Siva or Siv in Gurbani, without the sasseh pehr bindi which was added to the Gurmukhi script later. The word itself means the bringer of comfort which is reiterated in the line from the shabad ਪਤਿਤ ਪਾਵਨ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੁਮਰਾ ਸੁਖਦਾਈ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਸੀਤਲੋਹੀ with the word "sukhdaaiee"

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Shiva is written as Siva or Siv in Gurbani, without the sasseh pehr bindi which was added to the Gurmukhi script later. The word itself means the bringer of comfort which is reiterated in the line from the shabad ਪਤਿਤ ਪਾਵਨ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੁਮਰਾ ਸੁਖਦਾਈ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਸੀਤਲੋਹੀ with the word "sukhdaaiee"

But it is a reference to Akal purakh and not to Hindu devta shiv ji. When name of devta shiv ji comes in Gurbani he is qualified by a reference.

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There is no such thing as a "Hindu" Devta, it is either a devta or not. All roops which have been taken by Akaal Purakh are an image of himself, if you believe it to be a "Hindu" Devta, then Akaal Purakh himself is a "Hindu".

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There is no such thing as a "Hindu" Devta, it is either a devta or not. All roops which have been taken by Akaal Purakh are an image of himself, if you believe it to be a "Hindu" Devta, then Akaal Purakh himself is a "Hindu".

Maha singh ji

For the sake of not avoiding the real issue let us call Shiv ji a Devta and not hindu devta.

But in the verse you were quoting is not a refrence to Devta shiv ji.

It is a reference to siv who is formless God.

When name of Devta shiv ji is mentioned in Gurbani he is qualified by a refrence.

siv biranch asur sur jaytay kaal agan meh jartay.

Shiva, Brahma, angels and demons, all burn in the fire of death.

naanak saran charan kamlan kee tumH na daarahu parabh kartay. ||3||4||

Nanak seeks the Sanctuary of the Lord's Lotus Feet; O God, Creator, please do not send me into exile. ||3||4||

ang 1267

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Never once did I state that the shabad I posted was reffering to the Sargun Devta Shiv Ji, infact the shabad itself creates the paradox of sargun nirgun by describing the mohi saroop and then stating ਸਰਬ ਸਮਾਨੋ ਏਕੈ ਓਹੀ . Anyone or anything that takes birth is ultimately consumed by the fire of death, to hammer this truth home the Guru applies it to those beings which were seen as Gods themselves, showing how even us "mortal" beings are all prone to death. As stated in Bani, these Devtas are incarnations of Akaal Purakh however worship is reserved solely for his unmanifest nirgun form.

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Never once did I state that the shabad I posted was reffering to the Sargun Devta Shiv Ji, infact the shabad itself creates the paradox of sargun nirgun by describing the mohi saroop and then stating ਸਰਬ ਸਮਾਨੋ ਏਕੈ ਓਹੀ . Anyone or anything that takes birth is ultimately consumed by the fire of death, to hammer this truth home the Guru applies it to those beings which were seen as Gods themselves, showing how even us "mortal" beings are all prone to death. As stated in Bani, these Devtas are incarnations of Akaal Purakh however worship is reserved solely for his unmanifest nirgun form.

maha singh ji wrote earlier

so the Guru is reffering to a sargun saroop and not nirgun saroop.

Please elaborate what is meant by above.

maha singh ji wrote

Bani, these Devtas are incarnations of Akaal Purakh

Please support this by a quote from Gurbani.

Gurbani says that they were incarnations of Vishnu. Gurbani does not endorse vishnu as akal purakh.

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ਸੋ ਮੁਖੁ ਜਲਉ ਜਿਤੁ ਕਹਹਿ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਜੋਨੀ ॥੩॥

ਜਨਮਿ ਨ ਮਰੈ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥

ਨਾਨਕ ਕਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਰਹਿਓ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੪॥੧॥

"Let that mouth be burnt, which says that our Lord and Master is subject to birth. ||3||

He is not born, and He does not die; He does not come and go in reincarnation.

The God of Nanak is pervading and permeating everywhere. ||4||1||"

(SGGS - Ang 1136)

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