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The man is indulging in wild uninformed conjecture. Alchemy and other Islamic sciences are complex subjects that require dedicated study and access to the authentic doctrines. I have painstakingly scanned many books on this subject. These Youtube videos are a joke.

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Alchemy and other Islamic sciences are complex subjects that require dedicated study and access to the authentic doctrines.

Alchemy is not an Islamic science. Roots of alchemy existed long before Mohammad created Islam.

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Alchemy derived from al-kimia is an Islamic science that is a result of an attempt to follow the stipulation of the Qur'an to seek knowledge, applied systematically to the tradition of Hermes-Harran-Prometheus-Thoth that early Islam came into contact with. The Europeans such as Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa copied it almost exactly from the works written by Islamic alchemists.

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In Guru Granth Sahib Ji, there are often references to a stone named 'Paras' which has the ability to convert iron into gold provided that there is not even a thin sheet of paper that separates the stone and the iron.

So my question arising from my limited knowledge that alchemy involves transmutation of one element to another is : Is 'Paras' a concept in alchemy? Many modern scientists have refuted the alchemists claims, was it the failure of their understanding to fully comprehend the subject ?

Discuss.

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Alchemy derived from al-kimia is an Islamic science that is a result of an attempt to follow the stipulation of the Qur'an to seek knowledge, applied systematically to the tradition of Hermes-Harran-Prometheus-Thoth that early Islam came into contact with. The Europeans such as Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa copied it almost exactly from the works written by Islamic alchemists.

Just saying alchemy is derived from al-kimia is not enough what arabic root does this word derive from. I was under the impression alchemy was word borrowed into arabic from khemet meaning black i.e. the black land round the nile - Egypt- This is where 'alchemy' was first practised albeit under a different name. I thought that Islam was adverse to the Hermetic tradition, it being associated with magical techniques and the dark arts. Also i'd revise the list you put up prometheus stole fire (knowledge of the heavens) from the Gods he represents the excessive technological obsession of the modern world, Hermes-thoth was a psychopomp and messenger of the Gods, he guided souls across the river, he used the fire in harmony with the Gods. They represent two broad traditions.

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You are right insofar as the root of kimia refers to the black soil around the Nile. However the English word alchemy derives from the Arabic al-kimia i.e. contact with the Islamic world not from the Coptic origins of the term.

I won't strike Prometheus from that list because the Egyptian deity Thoth - who was believed to have been the bringer of knowledge to mankind - was the prototype of the Greek Titan Prometheus who was believed to have brought the secret of fire to mankind. Even though the Greeks themselves associated Thoth with Hermes, his role was more or less the same as Prometheus and it seems most likely that the tradition of Prometheus comes from Thoth as well.

The view of the court of Harun ar-Rashid according to the scholar Abu Ma'shar was that there were three Hermetic archetypes: 1 before the Flood to whom the development of the sciences were attributed; 2 the sage Hermes Trismegistus described by al-Fadl who was the occupier of one of 7 Iraqi astronomical observatories built by Dahhaq ibn Qay who later became king of Egypt; 3) the sage associated with Corpus Hermeticum. Abu Ma'shar, ibn Juljul and ibn Abi Usaybi'ah associate this final Hermes with Pythagoras - either his teacher or his student. Harun ar-Rashid was open to Greek science and philosophy and at that early period in history there was no perception that this conflicted with Islam.

Al-Mamun patronised the study of Persian, Indian and Greek sciences during his rule, and Hermes Trismegistus was - under the influence of Iranian astrologers - domesticated into Islam a generation before Plato or Aristotle.

Hermeticism is an established tradition within esoteric Shi'ite Islam. The connection is the Persian Hermeticist Jabir ibn Hayyan ('Geber') who was a student of Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq (as). The belief in the transmigration of souls propounded by the followers of Abu al-Khattab exemplify the Hermetic influece - a belief that continued in a modified form among the Ismailis perhaps due to contact with Mesopotamian Sabians.

The Rasail of the Brethren of Purity (10th century) also owes a great deal to Hermeticism (especially in the 52nd risalah) although most of it belongs to the falsafah tradition. The Brethren considered Hermes a Prophet, on the basis of the Sabians' identification of Hermes with Idris-Enoch.

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Fateh!

There is no such thing as Islamic Science no more than there is Christian Science or Buddhist Science or Atheist Science.

The origins of alchemy are far older than Mohammed's religion. To say Alchemy is some Islamic Science or an Islamic creation is bullshit. Alchemy, both practical and spiritual, was practiced in cultures and religions far, far before some openminded Persians and Arabs decided to experiment with the part of the art they learned from the pre-Islamic Egyptians and the Greeks.

The guys in the video are just newage amateurs who have mixed up a little laya yoga, layman physics, the platonic solids, and mumbo jumbo. You can follow their instructions and nothing will follow except self-delusion, tree-hugging and the use of patchouli oil as a cologne.

The body of light is just another name for the astral body. In its natural state it is dark, lunar and amorphous; with spiritual practice it is made luminous, definite and solar. Initially one who attempts to take control of this body and travel in it remembers fragments of the journey as if it were a dream - there is no continuity of consciousness, the journey is fragmented, distorted and incompletely recalled. Furthermore one is prone to end up in whatever astral world that one's natural inclinations and karmas dictate. With increased experience and heightened spiritual awareness, the transition from the sleep of the physical body and the awakening of the body of light is seamless, and consciousness exists as luminous awareness. It becomes possible at this stage to visit the countless heavens of the different religions and to move from one physical bpdy to another at the point of death.

Sikhi teaches that to pursue these abilities is to further entangle oneself in maya, but to say the astral body is anti-Gurmat is sort of like saying the pineal gland and DMT is anti-Gurmat. These powers develop naturally during bhagti and naam abhyaas.

The best site on Alchemy is still Adam Maclean's site:

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/

Enjoy,

K.

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Alchemy derived from al-kimia is an Islamic science that is a result of an attempt to follow the stipulation of the Qur'an to seek knowledge, applied systematically to the tradition of Hermes-Harran-Prometheus-Thoth that early Islam came into contact with. The Europeans such as Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa copied it almost exactly from the works written by Islamic alchemists.

And the Mohammedans copied everything they learned about Alchemy from the Egyptians, the Persians and the Greeks. Alchemy has nothing to do with the Koran.

Similarly, Agrippa may have consulted the Picatrix for the chapter on the Lunar Mansions in his 3 Books of Occult Philosophy, but that form of astrology was in existent long before Mohammed was born.

K.

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Astrology is a different matter.

The Qur'an does not exist in isolation but belongs to a religious tradition that goes back to the Prophet Abraham. Also, it's a mistake to interpret the Qur'an from a narrow exoteric perspective, as its interpretation is a science in itself. Islam does not encompass only the Qur'an but the teachings of the Ahl al-Bayt as well.

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Astrology is a different matter.

The Qur'an does not exist in isolation but belongs to a religious tradition that goes back to the Prophet Abraham. Also, it's a mistake to interpret the Qur'an from a narrow exoteric perspective, as its interpretation is a science in itself. Islam does not encompass only the Qur'an but the teachings of the Ahl al-Bayt as well.

I was using astrology as analogous example. Let me make it clear for you: Alchemy is not an Islamic creation, neither is it a creation of the Judeo-Christian tradition. Therefore it is not an "Islamic Science". Now before you claim that, on an esoteric level, Islam goes back to the myth of Adam's creation and therefore everything thaty exists is an Islamic Science, I am not concerned with what you believe to be estorically true - I am talking about historical fact not mythologised history.

Regarding interpretation of the Quran being a science - nope. Exegesis, literary analysis, linguistics and etymology are no sciences. Furthermore the same tools are used to interpret other religious texts. Exegesis of I Ching is not a CHinese science, exegesis of the Torah and Talmud is not a Jewish science, and so on and so on.

If you actually have an interest in alchemy, I'd recommend Adam McLean's site as a good starting point. He also runs courses in practical alchemy, if that is your cup of Earl Grey.

Regards,

K.

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When one leaves in the astral body, is one actually leaving the physical body, or is the journey all within the mind? I'm asking b/c all these new age people make this seem so easy, yet I recall a sakhi of Baba Aya Singh ji hoti Mardan, which was told by Sant Jagjit Singh ji. Baba Aya Singh ji actually left his body during meditation and Baba Karm Singh ji grabbed him (the body that left) by the foot and pulled him back down. He taught that it is easy to leave the body, but can be very hard to return. You are not yet ready for this.

Now if our great sants, albeit not at full power at that time, found leaving the body such a risky thing, how can these airy fairy new age people so easily leave their body with no ill effects, with no risk?? It seems to me that they think they are leaving, maybe they actually aren't. leaving the body in the astral realm may be much different than actually leaving the physical body. hope that makes sense.

I'd just be ccautious before using new age tactics, or even very old techniques as who knows what else was mixed in with the technique to mislead people. I'm not saying the technique is bad, but we do need to be careful.

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When one leaves in the astral body, is one actually leaving the physical body, or is the journey all within the mind? I'm asking b/c all these new age people make this seem so easy, yet I recall a sakhi of Baba Aya Singh ji hoti Mardan, which was told by Sant Jagjit Singh ji. Baba Aya Singh ji actually left his body during meditation and Baba Karm Singh ji grabbed him (the body that left) by the foot and pulled him back down. He taught that it is easy to leave the body, but can be very hard to return. You are not yet ready for this.

Now if our great sants, albeit not at full power at that time, found leaving the body such a risky thing, how can these airy fairy new age people so easily leave their body with no ill effects, with no risk?? It seems to me that they think they are leaving, maybe they actually aren't. leaving the body in the astral realm may be much different than actually leaving the physical body. hope that makes sense.

I'd just be ccautious before using new age tactics, or even very old techniques as who knows what else was mixed in with the technique to mislead people. I'm not saying the technique is bad, but we do need to be careful.

Fateh!

Deep question. Do these astral realms and heavens exist in an actual location in space-time, or are they inseparable from the humans who seek to travel to them? IMO, astral travel is an inner experience as well as an outer one, and there is a limit on the realms one can access that is governed by one's spiritual devolopment and character (e.g., you aren't going to be able to gain entrance to Valhalla if you are a pacifist tree-hugger).

Leaving the body at the point of death is a very different experience from leaving the body in trance because the astral sheath is still joined to the physical body in the latter case. At the point of death, the connection is entirely severed and the mind has nothing to hold on to as the process of severing occurs. If at this point you have not realised through spiritual practice (naam abhyaas and bhagti in Sikhi) that consciousness of some form exists on a transpersonal level, one just gets lost in the astral realm which is the realm of illusion and mistakes one's visions as being reality. The Tibetan Book of the Dead goes into much depth on what happens at the point of death.

The people who practice astral projection do come across risks in their travelling. It's easy to become fascinated by the astral world. Sooner or later one will come across some entity that will try to convince you that it is some kind of higher being who has chosen you to give a very important message to humanity. The people who fall for this crap are numerous. If you want proof of this, go into the mind, body & spirit section of your local bookshop and see how many "channelled" books you find that are supposedly dictated by everything from dolphins to magicians from Atlantis.

Regards,

K.

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I was using astrology as analogous example. Let me make it clear for you: Alchemy is not an Islamic creation, neither is it a creation of the Judeo-Christian tradition. Therefore it is not an "Islamic Science". Now before you claim that, on an esoteric level, Islam goes back to the myth of Adam's creation and therefore everything thaty exists is an Islamic Science, I am not concerned with what you believe to be estorically true - I am talking about historical fact not mythologised history.

You cannot arrogate to yourself the right to dictate to me what is 'Islamic' and what is not 'Islamic'. Your definition of Islam is extremely narrow and you completely missed the point of my remark about the esoteric meaning of the Qur'an. What you consider to be Islam is undoubtedly different from mine, but I don't find this discussion interesting as we might as well ask 'Is there any such thing as Indian food?' considering that chillies came to India from Portugal. 'Is there any such thing as Islamic science' is like a first-year undergraduate's essay topic.

Regarding interpretation of the Quran being a science - nope. Exegesis, literary analysis, linguistics and etymology are no sciences.

The interpretation of the Qur'an by western secular academies has no bearing on the Islamic science of exegesis of the Qur'an. If I say 'Islamic science' I am naturally referring to a sectarian system.

Furthermore the same tools are used to interpret other religious texts. Exegesis of I Ching is not a CHinese science, exegesis of the Torah and Talmud is not a Jewish science, and so on and so on.

As a non-Chinese Taoist or a non-Jew what gives you the right to suggest that exegesis of the I Ching and Torah respectively are not within the compass of those sectarian traditions? Indoctrination is the factor you're overlooking. That first year undergraduate essay has no right or wrong answer, but a sectarian academy certainly adopts a position on such questions. The Academy of the Church of Indian Food would only give you marks for saying yes, there is such a thing as Indian food.

If you actually have an interest in alchemy, I'd recommend Adam McLean's site as a good starting point. He also runs courses in practical alchemy, if that is your cup of Earl Grey.

I'm busy with other things right now, but will check the link later. To be honest I'm not short of materials on this subject matter, but it's not my main area of interest.

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Blah blah blah.

Like I said, you can believe whatever the hell you want, however that doesn't make it true.

I repeat: Alchemy is older than than Islam and the Judeo-Christian tradition. If you think that it is an Islamic science, you are ignorant of history. People have been studying it for longer than Islam has been in existence, and before Moses was born.

K.

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