Open Challenge To Kala Afghani Fauji For Discussion On Charitropakhayan

[singh2]

So called Khalsa Fauj is hopping from one forum to another and giving a twisted version

Of chartras 21, 22 and 23 of Charitrpakhyan.

He wrote yesterday on Sikh philosophy net following post

Originally Posted by The Khalsa Fauj View Post

I have been challenging Inder Singh to live debate for a very long time. Challenge is also there for Vijaydeep. Vijaydeep, you can ask Inder Singh to book your ticket to Toronto so you can come and debate Dasam Granth with us. We don't slander Dasam Granht. We just state what it states. Dasam Granth slanders Guru Gobind Singh Ji so it is not us slandering Guru Gobind Singh Ji but it Dasam Granth. Dasam Granth is the granth which sends King of Anandpur, the Guru of Sikhs to one Anoop Kuar who fools King of Anandpur, Guru of Sikhs. Guru of Sikhs, king of Anandpur, forgets his shoes and blankey in the house of Anoop Kuar because he was too frightened and nevous to remember his items.

Fauji

You are referring to charitropakhayan in above post. Need to remember that charitroapkhyan are written in Mantri bhup sambad style. In other words a minister tells tales to a king.

Charitra you are referring to is 21, 22 and 23. It is not associated with life of Guru Gobind singh ji. This is a story that is taken from middle east and rewritten by Guru sahib. It is an art of story telling where name of places have been changed. That does not say it happpened. It is a mythical tale to impart a moral lesson.

Guru Gobind singh ji was not a king.

Khalsa Fauj and other kala fghanis do not undersatnd the format of writing of Charitropakhyan. They do not know the the purpose of a myth and meaning of myth.

They are misinterpreting bani of tenth master by attaching this story to life of tenth master.

I throw an open challenge to him and his cohorts to discuss these chartiras on sikhawareness where gang type support he is enjoying on SPN

from other members while telling false stories about the life of tenth master is not tolerated.

Let us have discussion on this.

[Mithar]

Good job Singh2. Brother, may God bless you for countering the Kala Afghanist propaganda. You are doing a great Seva of Guru Jee.

[singh2]

Interesting information on Inder Ghagha who is considered as guide of anti dasam granth brigade.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/learning-zone/message/39386

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh

In winter of 1992, I was visiting village of my

in-laws known as village Ghagga in Patiala Distt. This

village is mostly inhabited by Pannus who migrated

from Amritsar Distt long time ago. Inder Singh Ghagga

was known as Bhai Inder Singh Pannu in those days. One

mornimg, I went to the Gurdwara Sahib to listen to

Katha as some one told me that a Giani of our own clan

(Aapnay Gharaan 'chon)does katha in the Gurdwara Sahib

daily. As I walked in, I noticed about 3-4 bodies

(mostly puranay sareer) sitting as listeners

(Sarotaas) with Loiies around their bodies. I sat till

the end of Katha, and Bhai Inder Singh spoke to me for

about 15 minutes afterwards. In this conversation, he

basically expressed a very keen desire to visit

Canada, and wanted me to send him a sponsorship

through our Gurdwara Sahib. I was not impressed with

his Katha at all because I noticed he knew only

surfacial meanings, and had no depth in his

elaborations of the Hukamnama that day. Infact I found

it very empty and meanings stretched with no linkages

in his conclusions. I walked back home and asked my

brother-in-law about Bhai Inder Singh's background and

as to how he became a Kathakar out of these illetrate

Pannus of Ghagga.

The Pannus of Ghagga are also known as "Khoondaymaar"

for their highhanded behaviour in the village. This

village is considered one of the backwardest in terms

of education. Anyhow, my brother-in-law told me that

Harpal and Inder's family did not have much land

and were very poor. Their father worked hard to send

his children to school. Inder Singh, the older son was

studying in matric and got a job as a driver with

Electricity Board, Bathinda office. The younger Harpal

was smarter and went to Punjabi Uni to do his P.hd.

This way I came to know that Inder Singh Panuu and

Harpal Singh Pannu of Pbi Uni were real brothers.

Inder Singh, however was charged & convicted with

theft/stealing from Electricity Board Bathinda and was

dismissed from his Driver's job. He returned back to

Ghagga. After that Inder Singh took correspondence

courses with Missionary College Ludhiana, and upon

completion of his diploma, started doing Katha and

make his both ends meet. The local Gurdwara offered

him a fixed salary to extend help to Inder Singh's

family. This much I came to know at that time. The

matter rested at that. Many years passed by, till Kala

Afghana controversy started circulating. As destiny

has it, I met Kala Afghana here in London as well few

years before his black-writings were published. Kala

Afghana was staying with his daughter, who's husband

was a physician in local hospital. Interestingly

enough KA gave me the first draft of his book Bipran

Ki Reet printed on dot-matrix printer (I still have

that) to look it over, and offer my opinion. I found

his writing so boring that I never bothered about it,

and dismissed it as crazy cravings of an old

frustrated man who was angry at Sikhs that his

relative who was a Kirtania got killed by Khardkoos.

KA went away to California and things were quiet for

some years. Suddenly, his books started appearing and

controversies were seen in the papers. I found out

about KA's conviction in molestation case of Victoria

Gurdwara and published the judgement on the Gurmat

Learning Zone for the first time. This bombshell came

as a surprise to KA followers. At first they did not

believe it and doubted its authenticity. When

confirmed, they started putting up another argument

that what matters is not his chracter but what he says

about Gurmat, and the service he has rendered in

exposing Bipar influence upon Sikh way of life. I have

not yet published KA's shameful act in the Gurdwara in

Saskatoon, and he received a severely worded warning

from Sangat to not repeat such things. His followers

can ask him directly about this, if they think he will

tell the truth. Anyways, let us continue...

The dead stories became alive again recently as I

heard one Prof. Inder Singh Ghagga appearing as member

of Sri-Dasam-Granth-Hate-Brigade, and

Hindu-Hate-Brigade (like admirers of KA such as

Joginder Singh Gurtej Singh). I never knew who is this

Prof. Ghagga, but the word "Ghagga", being village of

my in-laws, made me curious to find out who was this

guy. When I checked further, I found out that this man

was the Inder Singh Pannu, I met long time ago in

Ghagga Gurdwara - Dr. Harpal Singh Pannu being his

younger brother. The story became more dramatic as I

learned

this:

I spoke to Dr. Anokh Singh ji of Bathinda, and asked

him if he knows Prof. Ghagga. He confirmed further

that he is brother of Prof Harpal Singh Pannu. I said

but Pannu's views about Sri Dasam Granth are

diametrically opposite to that of Inder Singh. How is

it possible to have this relationship? Dr Anokh Singh

added that he met Dr. Harpal Singh at some

Sikh gathering and asked similar question as I had. He

asked him if he was Inder's real brother, by the same

parents. Harpal Singh confirmed but with a few very

interesting qualifying remarks. Dr Harpal Singh Pannu

said:

"1. Dr Sahib, Pirthyaa was born in the same Guru's

house hold.

2. I (Dr Harpal Singh Pannu) had a small modest

dwelling in Patiala that I built after a long time

working as a professor at the Uni. Whereas, my brother

Inder, who is matric educated, owns a kothi in

Ludhiana."

This is how Dr Harpal Singh Pannu responded to Dr.

Anokh Singh's shocking questions. By the way, this Dr

Anokh Singh was present in Toronto area location where

about 150 Singhs had assembled to have a debate with

Prof Ghagga on points of contention. Prof. Ghagga

never appeared there as already reported in the press.

I asked Dr Anokh Singh about the title Prof. that

Inder Singh Ghagga uses. He explained that a Gurmat

College was started across from canal in village

Jawaddi by some Gurmukh piara by donating his

ancestral land. That man has died. Inder Singh got job

to teach Gurmat there after receiving his diploma

from Ludhiana Sikh Missionary College's correspondance

course. This is how he found a short cut to

Professorship as opposed to his brother Dr Harpal

Singh Pannu.

For reader's knowledge I would suggest two books: One

is titled Kalaey Afganay Dey Kalay Leikh. This book is

a very good collection of articles dealing with Kala

Afghana's anti-Sikh writings. Dr Anokh Singh has

written excellent articles in this. (Dr Anokh

Singh has written one small book on Gurbani Grammer as

well, worth acquiring as well.) Second book that deals

very thoroughly the KA issue and deals with the filth

of KA systematically, is "Sabh Dushat Jhakh Maraa" by

Kanwar Ajit Singh of Patiala. This is a must read for

all the KA supporters, and those who seek truth of

Gurmat, Guru-Gyan-Bhauray.

Harkinder Singh

London Ontario Canada

[Mithar]

As always, that was a very informative post Singh2. Please don't stop. Let us dedicate this entire thread to Gurbaksh Kala Afghana and Inder Singh Ghagha.

[singh2]

As always, that was a very informative post Singh2. Please don't stop. Let us dedicate this entire thread to Gurbaksh Kala Afghana and Inder Singh Ghagha.

I wrote this on sikhsangat. This was my parallel source of information about ghagha.

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showto...24&start=24

QUOTE by jassa ji

u can find him ( khalsa fauj)on orkut in the largest community of sikhs ... "sikhism" with 25000 + members ... there he did open beadbi of jaap sahib ... in order to prove anyone can write jaap sahib style ... he wrote his own jaap sahib look alike poetry ... mods there didnt even cared to warn him ... i even have the screen shots of the beadbi ...

There is some background of his insults for Jaap sahib. It comes from Inder Ghagha, his guru.

Inder Ghagha was a driver with Punjab state Electricity Board. he was caught while stealing cable and jailed.

He was lodged in Bhatinda jail around 1983.

Also lodged there was an activist of sikh students federation. Inder Ghagha was a member of communist party.

he had no belief in Gurbani. One day while taking bath in front of a hand pump in compound of jail, he started reading

his trumped up( home made) jaap sahib. THis activist listened. He took garvi from the hand of Inder Ghagah and hit it on his head.

This gentleamn is in USA and lives in northen california. he related this event to sangat.

So this is gurdikhia Fauj has taken from his Guru Ghagha.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Instead of running around on different forums giving challenges. Why don't you drag yourself to Toronto and bring along Sher Singh, Harpal Singh, etc. Lamba is in New York so he can come too. Also bring along Jodh Singh. Like I told you on SPN, bring live talk.

[singh2]

Sangat ji

I have entered into discussion with khalsa fauj earlier on discovesikhi forum.

Normally khalsa fauj and international akali appear together on forums. Mostly it is khalsa fauj aka international akali

to cause impression that they are two persons.

Given below is debate from discover sikhi site on some issues with us and then he fled.

Post by akali international

No you are wrong singh. In bachitar natak it says with the Kaan thee mail of shashobit the whole universe was made. So that is a contradiction.


As for ardas it is only up to sab thaihee hoye sahai. And that is all. And after that it says


khanda prathmai manaiekai jin sabh saisar oappiya.


But if you read apni katha aka bachitar natak the entire srishrti was made from kaan thee mail of shashobit raja.


So what should we do? believe one or the other?				 


This post has been edited by [b]International Akaali[/b]: Mar 29 2008, 09:42 AM

Answer by abc123 and that is me Akali That verse in Bachitra natak seems to be beyond your comprehension.Have you read that verse or you are just spreading someone else 's propaganda. I have read that verse.That does not mean what you say above.Please read it yourself. Post by akali international

Das has read that, and am looking at it right now.


please explain das the thuk as it is not beyong your comprehension. Please go to dasamgranth.org


Go to Bachitar Natak. Page 12. and you will see in there. I am not spreading anyone elses propoganda with gurus kirpa. With gurus kirpa i am reading what is shown. I will not type in gurmukhi as it take time. I will give you the link.


[url="http://&lt;banned%20site%20filter%20activated&gt;/institute/dasam/volume1.shtml"]http://<banned site filter activated>/institute/dasam/volume1.shtml://http://<banned site filter activ...m/volume1.shtml[/url]


Page 12. Paragraph 4.

Answer by abc123 and that is me The link you have given above does not have page 12.Can you correct that? Post by akali international

You did not click bachitar natak so das will do it for you. Here is the new link:


[url="http://&lt;banned%20site%20filter%20activated&gt;/institute/dasam/pdf/v1_3.pdf"]http://<banned site filter activated>/institute/dasam/pdf/v1_3.pdf://http://<banned site filter activ...am/pdf/v1_3.pdf[/url]


Now you go to Page 12. Paragraph 4.


In Kav Bans Varnan.

Which is Pauri Number 13 it says in Chapai.



You can see there. So you don't get confused just go to page 12 and 4th paragraph. Pauri number 13

.

Answer by abc123 and that is me Akali ji page starts with no 56.From where page 12 comes in.Please check at your end again or you can write it down here. Akali ji It is on page 64.have you read first line of chaupai.There Guru ji writes Pritham kal jab kara pasara Oankar te sirisht apara When kal (Lord) first extended He through Oankar created the world How it is different from creation of the world as described in SGGS ji. It is clearly given in Punjabi also. [Akali ji It is page 64.Anyway the verse is given below. in the very first line Guru ji describes how this world was created. Next is a Myth.Myth is not reality.Myth is told to impart a moral lesson.Moral lessons is given in last lines. ਚੌਪਈ ॥ चौपई ॥ CHAUPAI ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਕਾਲ ਜਬ ਕਰਾ ਪਸਾਰਾ ॥ ਓਅੰਕਾਰ ਤੇ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਉਪਾਰਾ ॥ प्रिथम काल जब करा पसारा ॥ ओअंकार ते स्रिसटि उपारा ॥ In the beginning, when KAL created the world, it was brought into being by Aumkara (the One Lord). ਕਾਲਸੈਣ ਪ੍ਰਥਮੈ ਭਇਓ ਭੂਪਾ ॥ ਅਧਿਕ ਅਤੁਲ ਬਲਿ ਰੂਪ ਅਨੂਪਾ ॥੧੦॥ कालसैण प्रथमै भइओ भूपा ॥ अधिक अतुल बलि रूप अनूपा ॥१०॥ Kal sain was the first king, who was of immeasurable strength and supreme beauty.10. ਕਾਲਕੇਤ ਦੂਸਰ ਭੂਅ ਭਯੋ ॥ ਕ੍ਰੂਰ ਬਰਸ ਤੀਸਰ ਜਗ ਠਯੋ ॥ कालकेत दूसर भूअ भयो ॥ क्रूर बरस तीसर जग ठयो ॥ Kalket became the second king and Kurabaras, the third. ਕਾਲਧੁਜ ਚਤੁਰਥ ਨ੍ਰਿਪ ਸੋਹੈ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਤੇ ਭਇਓ ਜਗਤ ਸਭ ਕੋ ਹੈ ॥੧੧॥ कालधुज चतुरथ न्रिप सोहै ॥ जिह ते भइओ जगत सभ को है ॥११॥ Kaldhuj was the fourth kin, from whon the whole world originated. 11. ਸਹਸਰਾਛ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਸੁਭ ਸੋਹੈ ॥ ਸਹਸ ਪਾਦ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਤਨਿ ਮੋਹੈ॥ सहसराछ जा के सुभ सोहै ॥ सहस पाद जा के तनि मोहै॥ He had a thousand eyes a thousand feet. ਸੇਖਨਾਗ ਪਰ ਸੋਇਬੋ ਕਰੈ ॥ ਜਗ ਤਿਹ ਸੇਖ ਸਾਇ ਉਚਰੈ ॥੧੨॥ सेखनाग पर सोइबो करै ॥ जग तिह सेख साइ उचरै ॥१२॥ He slept on Sheshanaga, therefore he was called the master of Shesha.12. ਏਕ ਸ੍ਰਵਣ ਤੇ ਮੈਲ ਨਿਕਾਰਾ ॥ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਮਧੁ ਕੀਟਭ ਤਨ ਧਾਰਾ ॥ एक स्रवण ते मैल निकारा ॥ ता ते मधु कीटभ तन धारा ॥ Out of the secretion from one of his ears, Madhu and Kaitabh came into being. ਦੁਤੀਯ ਕਾਨ ਤੇ ਮੈਲੁ ਨਿਕਾਰੀ ॥ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਭਈ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਇਹ ਸਾਰੀ ॥੧੩॥ दुतीय कान ते मैलु निकारी ॥ ता ते भई स्रिसटि इह सारी ॥१३॥ And from the secretion of the other ear, the whole world materialized.13. ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਕਾਲ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਬਧ ਕਰਾ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਮੇਦ ਸਮੁੰਦ ਮੋ ਪਰਾ ॥ तिन को काल बहुरि बध करा ॥ तिन को मेद समुंद मो परा ॥ After some period, the Lord killed the demons (Madhu and Kaitabh). Their marrow flowed into the ocean. ਚਿਕਨ ਤਾਸ ਜਲ ਪਰ ਤਿਰ ਰਹੀ ॥ ਮੇਧਾ ਨਾਮ ਤਬਹਿ ਤੇ ਕਹੀ ॥੧੪॥ चिकन तास जल पर तिर रही ॥ मेधा नाम तबहि ते कही ॥१४॥ The greasy substance floated thereon, because of that medital (marrow), the earth was called medha (or medani).14. ਸਾਧ ਕਰਮ ਜੇ ਪੁਰਖ ਕਮਾਵੈ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਦੇਵਤਾ ਜਗਤ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥ साध करम जे पुरख कमावै ॥ नाम देवता जगत कहावै ॥ Because of virtuous actions, a purusha (person) is known as devta (god) ਕੁਕ੍ਰਿਤ ਕਰਮ ਜੇ ਜਗ ਮੈ ਕਰਹੀ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਅਸੁਰ ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਸਭ ਧਰਹੀ ॥੧੫॥ कुक्रित करम जे जग मै करही ॥ नाम असुर तिन को सभ धरही ॥१५॥ And because of evil actions, he is known as asura (demon).15. ਬਹੁ ਬਿਸਥਾਰ ਕਹਾਂ ਲਗੈ ਬਖਾਨੀਅਤ ॥ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਬਢਨ ਤੇ ਅਤਿ ਡਰੁ ਮਾਨੀਅਤ ॥ बहु बिसथार कहां लगै बखानीअत ॥ ग्रंथ बढन ते अति डरु मानीअत ॥ If everything is described in detail, it is feared that the description will become voluminous. When he realizes he is wrong international akali tries to change the subject Post by akali international

This is my last post. I will be closing my eyes.


Why was bachitar natak written? It is apaani Katha. an autobiography. Why would myths be written in apaani katha. who cares why does this effect me? do you care if a myth says the univerise was made with the grime of ear?


Also did you read the last line you posted in there


ਬਹੁ ਬਿਸਥਾਰ ਕਹਾਂ ਲਗੈ ਬਖਾਨੀਅਤ ॥ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਬਢਨ ਤੇ ਅਤਿ ਡਰੁ ਮਾਨੀਅਤ ॥

बहु बिसथार कहां लगै बखानीअत ॥ ग्रंथ बढन ते अति डरु मानीअत ॥

If everything is described in detail, it is feared that the description will become voluminous.


"guru sahib" is too scared that the granth is gonna get too big. "Guru sahib" has fear instilled in him according to this quote.

Answer by abc123 and that is me The moral is in these two lines. ਸਾਧ ਕਰਮ ਜੇ ਪੁਰਖ ਕਮਾਵੈ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਦੇਵਤਾ ਜਗਤ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥ साध करम जे पुरख कमावै ॥ नाम देवता जगत कहावै ॥ Because of virtuous actions, a purusha (person) is known as devta (god) ਕੁਕ੍ਰਿਤ ਕਰਮ ਜੇ ਜਗ ਮੈ ਕਰਹੀ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਅਸੁਰ ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਸਭ ਧਰਹੀ ॥੧੫॥ कुक्रित करम जे जग मै करही ॥ नाम असुर तिन को सभ धरही ॥१५॥ And because of evil actions, he is known as asura (demon).15. When guru sahib has said in the very first line that Oankar created this world then there is no doubt left. This is a myth described to convey that people who do good works are appreciated and demons are punished.Myths are In SGGS also but these are used extensively in Dasam Granth. Such myths are there all over the world.There is babylonian myth of creation.Then there is biblical myth of creation.Mahabharata have also such myths.A myth is not reality. The point here is that those who criticize that guru ji wrote like this need to understand these myths.Had they that much exposure especially these 10th grade missionaries, they will never question Dasam Granth bani. Post by akali international

ok if the writer is too scared about writing these myths so the granth will get so big. Why write them in the first place? And after the line where he says im too scared that the granth will get big.... Is that all a myth too? From that point he should stop writing the myths because the granth is gonna get too big. So I'm assumming the writings of myths should be over and the only thing that should be written is of some value rather than a myth.

Answer by abc123 and that is me The writer has given moral lessons at the end of condensed of myths.The last line just denotes that he is not elaborating as it may enlarge the granth.That means that essence of the myth is conveyed. Post by akali international

What moral do you get out of this story? What is your definition of moral lessons?


Where is he saying this is a moral lesson? what is the moral in the story?

Answer by abc123 and that is me

Akali

Have not you read earlier?I reproduce.

ਸਾਧ ਕਰਮ ਜੇ ਪੁਰਖ ਕਮਾਵੈ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਦੇਵਤਾ ਜਗਤ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥

साध करम जे पुरख कमावै ॥ नाम देवता जगत कहावै ॥

Because of virtuous actions, a purusha (person) is known as devta (god)

ਕੁਕ੍ਰਿਤ ਕਰਮ ਜੇ ਜਗ ਮੈ ਕਰਹੀ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਅਸੁਰ ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਸਭ ਧਰਹੀ ॥੧੫॥

कुक्रित करम जे जग मै करही ॥ नाम असुर तिन को सभ धरही ॥१५॥

And because of evil actions, he is known as asura (demon).15.

To undersatd this subject in detail you need to read a little more in depth about patriarchal system of the world.What was before that.What drawbacks it had.When marriage was institutionalized .It took care of many ills of society.So on and so on.Missonaries who have not crossed 10th standard cann't understand such depth of Dasam Granth.The last line is not aimed at you.You seem to be very intelligent man but misled by missionaries.

Let us revert to original discussion now.What is your problem with vaar sri Bhagauti ji ki?

There is noithing wrong in that.

source: http://forums.panthic.net/index.php?showto...23535&st=60

Then sudden silence by khalsa fauj and international akali. They stop spreading mischief on that site. Thnenthey go other sites and do the same mischief. finally they were together

on Sikhphilosophy . net where they are accorded welcome to spread nonsense as in case of Chartira 21,22 and 23.

Come on fake scholar and let us have a discussion. otherwise stop spreading blasphemy .

[amardeep]

Good job Singha.

Regarding this quote:

ਸਾਧ ਕਰਮ ਜੇ ਪੁਰਖ ਕਮਾਵੈ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਦੇਵਤਾ ਜਗਤ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥

साध करम जे पुरख कमावै ॥ नाम देवता जगत कहावै ॥

Because of virtuous actions, a purusha (person) is known as devta (god)

ਕੁਕ੍ਰਿਤ ਕਰਮ ਜੇ ਜਗ ਮੈ ਕਰਹੀ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਅਸੁਰ ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਸਭ ਧਰਹੀ ॥੧੫॥

कुक्रित करम जे जग मै करही ॥ नाम असुर तिन को सभ धरही ॥१५॥

And because of evil actions, he is known as asura (demon).15.

i think its also to show that the various wars mentioned in the chaubis avatar section of bachitar natak was actually wars between human beings and not between "gods and demons"... Maharaj clears that up

[Mithar]

Can some brother here also write something about Gurcharan Singh Jeonwala of Brampton Ontario. He writes and says alot of poison about Dasam Granth. He must be countered. He probably the most active member of the self styled "Singh Sabha" Canada group. This man is extremely active in spreading his poison about his idea of what Sikhi is (an communist version of Sikhi). But he is probably most active in spreading poison against Sri Dasam Granth. He is the 3rd leg in this Kala Afghanist movement with Gurbaksh Kala Afghana and Ghagha being the first 2 two legs.

[singh2]

Can some brother here also write something about Gurcharan Singh Jeonwala of Brampton Ontario. He writes and says alot of poison about Dasam Granth. He must be countered. He probably the most active member of the self styled "Singh Sabha" Canada group. This man is extremely active in spreading his poison about his idea of what Sikhi is (an communist version of Sikhi). But he is probably most active in spreading poison against Sri Dasam Granth. He is the 3rd leg in this Kala Afghanist movement with Gurbaksh Kala Afghana and Ghagha being the first 2 two legs.

Please see discussion this guy had with Baba hari singh ranhawewale

http://www.sikhclips.com/view_video.php?vi...=&category=

http://www.sikhclips.com/view_video.php?vi...=&category=

http://www.sikhclips.com/view_video.php?vi...=&category=

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all!

I read the wonderful Vaaks from Charitropakhyaan-The Dasam Granth.

ਅਰਘ ਗਰਭ ਨ੍ਰਿਪ ਤ੍ਰਿਯਨ ਕੋ ਭੇਦ ਨ ਪਾਯੋ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਤਊ ਤਿਹਾਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੇ ਕਛੁ ਕਛੁ ਕਹੋ ਬਨਾਇ ॥੪੪॥[/

अरघ गरभ न्रिप त्रियन को भेद न पायो जाइ ॥ तऊ तिहारी क्रिपा ते कछु कछु कहो बनाइ ॥४४॥

Aragh garabh nrip triyan ko bhed na paayoo jaai. Taoo tumhaaree kripaa te kacchu kacchu kaho banaai.

Can somebody please explain the above? May I request the experts of Charitropakhyaan to come forward?

Balbir Singh

[singh2]

Instead of running around on different forums giving challenges. Why don't you drag yourself to Toronto and bring along Sher Singh, Harpal Singh, etc. Lamba is in New York so he can come too. Also bring along Jodh Singh. Like I told you on SPN, bring live talk.

I had missed your post.

You wrote that charitropakhayan says that Guru gobind singh went to the house of a lady and while running away he left his truban and shoes.

I brought to your attention that your reference is to charitras 21,22 and 23. The said charitras do not relate

to life of Guru sahib. It is a story being retold where the author i.e. Guru sahib changes names of certain places

to create interest. This is an art of story telling.

The name charitropakhayan mean stories that were existing and are being retold. Moreover whole charitropakhayan

except charitra 1 and last charitra is being told by a minister to his king.

What makes you to have a wild guess by attaching charitras 21,22 and 23 to life of tenth master. What debate you will have

with those people when you are not able to grasp the basic setting of charitropakhayan. All you can do is abuse bani of

tenth master. Now let us have your reply.

[amardeep]

The name charitropakhayan mean stories that were existing and are being retold.

the same can be seen in the charitr on prophet yusaf where there is a mentioning of indra and other devtes.. this of course never happend in real life as these deities were not known in arabia at the time the incident took place.

[singh2]

the same can be seen in the charitr on prophet yusaf where there is a mentioning of indra and other devtes.. this of course never happend in real life as these deities were not known in arabia at the time the incident took place.

Most of mischievious propaganda by so called singhsabha canada, ragi darshan singh and other chelas of kala afghana

is carried out by citing these charitras and linking these to life of Guru Gobind singh ji. It shows they have not been able

to comprehend the writing style of charitras and are not aware of the meaning of Charitroapkhyan.

It is like blind leading a blind. May be so called khalsa fauj will be able to tell us why does he attach these charitras

21,22 and 23 to the life of tenth master. I am waiting for his reply.

[amardeep]

I think its because it mentions the city of Anandpur located near the sutlej river, and the king being the Guru of his sikhs.

[singh2]

I think its because it mentions the city of Anandpur located near the sutlej river, and the king being the Guru of his sikhs.

To understand charitras 21,22 and 23 one should read charitras before that starting with charitra 2.

Upto charitra 20 a minister is reciting charitras where women are deceiving men. In beginning of Charitra 21

king asks minister now tell me a charitra where men have duped women. That is shown in charitra

21,22 and 23.

That itself is clear that it is a story( Fiction) being recited by a minister to his king. It is not real and hence

cann't be related to life of tenth master. Changing the name of places is an artistic expression to take the

story to great heights.

kala afghna sect follower khalsa fauj has different interpretation and he may tell us why he thinks that it

happened with Guru ji when the writer i.e. guru sahib is repeatedly telling in charitras that these are mantri-

bhup sambade.

Khalsa Fauj, where are you. Please ask your Guru kala afghana, ragi Darshan and jeonwala for help.

[singh2]

Waheguruseeker ji

Welcome to the forum. Since you discard Dasam granth on SPN calling it Hindu writings tat have no place in sikhism.

You are a mentor there. The job of mentor should respect all aspects of sikhi. By disowning dasam granth what guidance you

are giving to youg sikh minds who visit your site.

If we contest that you start bullying there. I will humbly request you forward your view points for basis of your conclusions

to say so. The present topic is Charitropakhayan. will you please throw some light on this.Alternatively you can choose a topic

of your choice from Dasam Granth and moderators will assign a separate thread for that.

Your cooperation is highly appreciated.

[Mithar]

What I want to know is, if Waheguruseeker is an Amritdhari then what banis does he read for his Nitnem? Since he discards all of Dasam Granth as a Hindu Granth then does he not read Jaap sahib, Swaiya, Benti Choupi and Dasam Bani in Rehras Sahib and Ardas? What kind of an Amritdhari is he? He is going against the Panthic Maryadha of Akal Takht which includes Dasam Bani in Nitnem.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Inder Singh, ethai aa kay raulee paaee jaanaa, Toronto aajaa? Tera passport expire hoaeaa jaa pension ghat aundee? Ethai time khraab kardaa rehnaa DG badlay, Gurbani par lia kar.

[singh2]

Inder Singh, ethai aa kay raulee paaee jaanaa, Toronto aajaa? Tera passport expire hoaeaa jaa pension ghat aundee? Ethai time khraab kardaa rehnaa DG badlay, Gurbani par lia kar.

Fauji

Your assertions about charitra 21,22 and 23 are thorughly exposed. That is what your whole gangmen are saying all over the internet attaching these charitras with life of tenth master. That is what Darshan singh Ragi says in his hate filled discourses in

some Gurudwaras controlled by henchmen of anti sikh forces for example congress friend sarna's delhi committee.

Come in the field and tell us why you were spreading venom against tenth master's status. Express yourself here.

[Bijla Singh]

Inder Singh, ethai aa kay raulee paaee jaanaa, Toronto aajaa? Tera passport expire hoaeaa jaa pension ghat aundee? Ethai time khraab kardaa rehnaa DG badlay, Gurbani par lia kar.

You are the one screaming about a live debate then why don't you prepare yourself and get out of Toronto? Why don't you find someone and go to them? You are the one who wants a debate then you must be able to travel instead of making excuses. ਗੁਫਾ 'ਚ ਬੈਠ ਕੇ ਹੀ ਗਰਜਣਾ ਆਉਂਦਾ ਪਰ ਬਾਹਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਨਿਕਲਣਾ

[singh2]

His job is to indulge in propaganda. If he does not have any understanding of Dasam garnth he is not fit

for any debate also. They are trained foot soldiers of anti sikh forces. Their brief is to shout obsecenities

and yet they call themselves Gursikhs.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Your assertions about charitra 21,22 and 23 are thorughly exposed. That is what your whole gangmen are saying all over the internet attaching these charitras with life of tenth master. That is what Darshan singh Ragi says in his hate filled discourses in

some Gurudwaras controlled by henchmen of anti sikh forces for example congress friend sarna's delhi committee.

Come to Toronto, we can talk about chariters, sarna and others. As well as your BJP and Badal who love DG.

You are the one screaming about a live debate then why don't you prepare yourself and get out of Toronto? Why don't you find someone and go to them? You are the one who wants a debate then you must be able to travel instead of making excuses. ਗੁਫਾ 'ਚ ਬੈਠ ਕੇ ਹੀ ਗਰਜਣਾ ਆਉਂਦਾ ਪਰ ਬਾਹਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਨਿਕਲਣਾ

Baahar niklan nu mai aanday wich baithaa? Why don't you and Inder come? Are you guys sitting on aandas? Also, how do you know I am screaming? You can hear me from Toronto in California? Find someone and go to them? Ehdaa kee matlab? Why should I travel? I am not the one saying DG is Gurbani. I am saying it isn't but you guys are saying it is. You guys are the ones who need to travel to prove your point. You and Inder Singh can come on same plane from California and plan ploys while on the way. You can also discuss DG with Gurpreet Samraa from Brampton. He really wants to talk DG with you. Gurbani says below:

ਨਿਰਭਉ ਭਏ ਰਾਮ ਬਲ ਗਰਜਿਤ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਸੰਤਾਪ ਹਿਰਿਓ ॥ ੨॥

I got no proper setup to travel to California at the moment. If there is need in future or I just go there to chill, sure I can talk to people in California about third party book called Bachitter Natak Granth.

[singh2]

Come to Toronto, we can talk about chariters, sarna and others. As well as your BJP and Badal who love DG.

Baahar niklan nu mai aanday wich baithaa? Why don't you and Inder come? Are you guys sitting on aandas? Also, how do you know I am screaming? You can hear me from Toronto in California? Find someone and go to them? Ehdaa kee matlab? Why should I travel? I am not the one saying DG is Gurbani. I am saying it isn't but you guys are saying it is. You guys are the ones who need to travel to prove your point. You and Inder Singh can come on same plane from California and plan ploys while on the way. You can also discuss DG with Gurpreet Samraa from Brampton. He really wants to talk DG with you. Gurbani says below:

ਨਿਰਭਉ ਭਏ ਰਾਮ ਬਲ ਗਰਜਿਤ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਸੰਤਾਪ ਹਿਰਿਓ ॥ ੨॥

I got no proper setup to travel to California at the moment. If there is need in future or I just go there to chill, sure I can talk to people in California about third party book called Bachitter Natak Granth.

Why should we come when it is proved that you have no comprehension of Dasam Granth. It is obvious here.

This is your ploy to divert attention from topic by posting nonsense so that your lack of scholarship

is not exposed.

Gurpreet samra has indulged in worst blasphemy on IHRO yahoo group a few years back by name calling Guru gobind singh ji

while quoting these three charitras. He owes an answer to sikh panth.When confronted by sangat he ran away and never posted there. ask him. I will post that here. He has no substance.

Do not worry we will come to tornto at right time. We will arrange an international seminar there on dasam granth in due course of

time. We did that last year in sacramento where your missioanry buddies ran away and never showed up. They were active to stall

that seminar by lobbyin with president of Bradshaw Gurudwara sahib.They met with no success..Then they went to West sacramento

Gurudwara sahib. When chased by management of West Sacramento gurudwara they started conducting their meeting in parking lot of Gurudwara.

President of Gurudwara chased them awway from there also by terming them as anti panthic goons.

None of them appeared in seminar when it was open to all sangat. You people are master of deception.Paper tigers nothing in substance.

[singh2]

Why should we come when it is proved that you have no comprehension of Dasam Granth. It is obvious here.

This is your ploy to divert attention from topic by posting nonsense so that your lack of scholarship

is not exposed.

Gurpreet samra has indulged in worst blasphemy on IHRO yahoo group a few years back by name calling Guru gobind singh ji

while quoting these three charitras. He owes an answer to sikh panth.When confronted by sangat he ran away and never posted there. ask him. I will post that here. He has no substance.

Do not worry we will come to tornto at right time. We will arrange an international seminar there on dasam granth in due course of

time. We did that last year in sacramento where your missioanry buddies ran away and never showed up. They were active to stall

that seminar by lobbying with president of Bradshaw Gurudwara sahib.They met with no success..Then they went to West sacramento

Gurudwara sahib. When chased by management of West Sacramento gurudwara they started conducting their meeting in parking lot of Gurudwara.

President of Gurudwara chased them away from there also by terming them as anti panthic goons.

None of them appeared in seminar when it was open to all sangat. You people are master of deception.Paper tigers nothing in substance.