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Open Challenge To Kala Afghani Fauji For Discussion On Charitropakhayan

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Inder, you accuse me of having no knowledge of Dasam Granth. Last time I had a somewhat proper debate with you on discoversikh, you had no clue about Guru Granth Sahib Ji or Dasam Granth. You said word Mahakaal is used in Guru Granth Sahib JI for God. You haven't shown me that yet. You also said Dasam Granth has nothing to do with MOhammed or Ramanand. You also said God can have 4 arms. It clearly shows your education of Gurmat. Other than that, I don't know what went on in California but here you are welcome to come and talk. What do you mean by internet tigers? You wanted anti--DG people to come to your program, fight with you guys and go to jail? They have brains unlike you guys who always like to fight and gain criminal records.

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Why don't you and Inder come? Are you guys sitting on aandas?

First of all, you want a debate not me. Then you should travel. Second, we are not missionaries who sit on eggs of RSS and hatch anti-panthic forces.

Also, how do you know I am screaming?

Because you are and all you are writing is “come to Toronto”.

Find someone and go to them? Ehdaa kee matlab?

Matlab – find someone who will debate with you and then make travel plans. Khudd chon nikal bahar.

Why should I travel? I am not the one saying DG is Gurbani. I am saying it isn't but you guys are saying it is.

Entire Panth including major jathas believe in Dasam Granth. You should travel because you are the one who wants a debate. Just because some dukki tikki questions Dasam Granth doesn’t mean the entire Panth should go to them for a debate.

You guys are the ones who need to travel to prove your point.

No you do because I have no problem with what one believes. You want the Panth to discard Dasam Granth then go ahead travel and see what happens.

You can also discuss DG with Gurpreet Samraa from Brampton.

Why are you so obsessed with sumra? Leave him out of it since he is not on this forum. Keep the discussion between us. When he joins this forum we can discuss it with him.

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First of all, you want a debate not me. Then you should travel. Second, we are not missionaries who sit on eggs of RSS and hatch anti-panthic forces. Because you are and all you are writing is “come to Toronto”.

You are the one who is RSS and you know it very well. RSS loves Dasam Granth like you do. Who said Sikhs are children of Luv Kush? Dasam Granth fanatic Pooran Singh or missionaries? Bijlaa Singh, I didn't expect you to be a lying machine. I thought you had some integrity but you have proven otherwise. Why would RSS fund someone to get rid of their devi devtas? Why would RSS fund someone to get rid of book which praises goddess? If I say come to Toronto, it doesn't mean I am screaming. You are just making bull.

Matlab – find someone who will debate with you and then make travel plans. Khudd chon nikal bahar.

I am not in travel mode at the moment. I will travel when time comes. Why don't you get out of your khudd? When snake comes to eat you, choohcaa will be eaten while hiding in khudd.

Entire Panth including major jathas believe in Dasam Granth. You should travel because you are the one who wants a debate. Just because some dukki tikki questions Dasam Granth doesn’t mean the entire Panth should go to them for a debate. No you do because I have no problem with what one believes. You want the Panth to discard Dasam Granth then go ahead travel and see what happens.

Who is this entire panth? Bunch of karam kaandis posing as Sikhs? Taksal, Nihungs, Maan Pehova, Sauda, Ashutosh, RSS, Jagera, etc. aren't Panth. Also, what is your definition of Panth? Please use Gurbani tukhs to define Panth. What do you mean see what happens?

Why are you so obsessed with sumra? Leave him out of it since he is not on this forum. Keep the discussion between us. When he joins this forum we can discuss it with him.

I am not obsessed with sumra. You guys are the ones obsessed with dasam granth and its content. I brought in SUmra because you didn't reply to him on sikhmarg. Post you reply there. He will reply to you. Discussion between us is bring your game to Toronto. It is simple and clear. Regarding me coming to California, I will come when the time is right.

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Inder, you accuse me of having no knowledge of Dasam Granth. Last time I had a somewhat proper debate with you on discoversikh, you had no clue about Guru Granth Sahib Ji or Dasam Granth. You said word Mahakaal is used in Guru Granth Sahib JI for God. You haven't shown me that yet. You also said Dasam Granth has nothing to do with MOhammed or Ramanand. You also said God can have 4 arms. It clearly shows your education of Gurmat. Other than that, I don't know what went on in California but here you are welcome to come and talk. What do you mean by internet tigers? You wanted anti--DG people to come to your program, fight with you guys and go to jail? They have brains unlike you guys who always like to fight and gain criminal records.

Mahakal is there in SGGS ji and i showed it to you . Do you want me to post it again?

Let us not bring irrelevant names here. I did say that mahakal has four arms.

These timids were trying their best to stall the programme . They went to President

of Gurudwara sahib and asked him not to allow the programme and that too two days ago when speakers from

India had arrived.

He called a meeting and he was made aware of the situation. Misisonary representative ran away from there as

he was not able to present his case.

When they were sure they failed in stalling the programme they vanished. Their main aim was not to let the programme

happen. When all was set these pygmies were nowhere to be seen . We had asked them to come.

had they brains they would have countered to prove their point when three charitras they are so fond of telling on internet

shamelessly are put up for discussion here.r

It is also applicable to you also. Why do not you write something about these three charitras here instaed of hijacking the thread.

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Fi

rst of all, you want a debate not me. Then you should travel. Second, we are not missionaries who sit on eggs of RSS and hatch anti-panthic forces.

well said. now we have two sides of the same coin here. One missioanries of kala fghana tribe saying that

Tenth master is not author of Dasam granth.

then we have RSS follower who says that Dasam granth is written by tenth master but it is written out of his

devotion for devi/devtas.

That proves they are one and the same.

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Khalsa Fauj, you ran away from the forum some time back. You stated you only have complete Sharda in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji but then leter stated you do not believe in the Raagmala, thus showing your true sharda. You said Sant Hari Singh Ji ran away from a debate and again the videos posted showed you to be a liar.

It is false agents like you spreading your false propoganda without an oiota of belief in anything other then your own corrupt buddhi. i suggest you get a passport and come over to the UK for the silly debate you seem to really need. Expect a reception you will never forget also if you do come here as well

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You are the one who is RSS and you know it very well. RSS loves Dasam Granth like you do. Who said Sikhs are children of Luv Kush? Dasam Granth fanatic Pooran Singh or missionaries? Bijlaa Singh, I didn't expect you to be a lying machine. I thought you had some integrity but you have proven otherwise. Why would RSS fund someone to get rid of their devi devtas? Why would RSS fund someone to get rid of book which praises goddess? If I say come to Toronto, it doesn't mean I am screaming. You are just making bull.

RSS dos not love Dasam granth. IThis is the Granth that are very scared of. That is why they want to undermine it through their agents.

I am not in travel mode at the moment. I will travel when time comes. Why don't you get out of your khudd? When snake comes to eat you, choohcaa will be eaten while hiding in khudd.

If you cann't travel say something on these three charitras that you falsely attach with lifeof Guru sahib.

Who is this entire panth? Bunch of karam kaandis posing as Sikhs? Taksal, Nihungs, Maan Pehova, Sauda, Ashutosh, RSS, Jagera, etc. aren't Panth. Also, what is your definition of Panth? Please use Gurbani tukhs to define Panth. What do you mean see what happens?

Taksal and nihungs have sacrificed for panth. have you made any sacrifice for panth/ Had you Inder Ghagha would not have got the diplomatic pasport. Ask him hwo he got it?

also let us know why names of Darshan singh and Gurtej singh ex IAS appears as agents of Govt of India in book " Open secrets" written by MK Dhar who ws intelligence chief of India.

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Read how DarshanRagi was trying to sell panth by having meetings with Sushil Muni.

http://www.panthic.org/news/131/ARTICLE/4108/2008-05-16.html

Ragi Darshan Singh: A Jathedar from Bollywood ?

(Editorial)

Friday 16th of May 2008

Editors

After Takht Sri Patna Sahib sevadars issued an unprecedented ‘Hukamnana’ against the controversial Ragi, Darshan Singh, it seems like sheepish individuals and organizations are now declaring the Ragi a Panthic ‘martyr’ and an innocent ‘victim’ of some hidden conspiracy between corrupt ‘Sikh High Priests’ and the RSS.

All of the sudden the bugle of “Reverence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Sri Akal Takht Sahib” is being blown by those who have never shown concerns about the ongoing sacrilege being committed by the Ragi and his nastic sidekicks.

Perhaps, its time again to ask the classic question: Where were they (these so-called Panthic yodhays) when:

*

Reverence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was being ridiculed and derided by those like the Nirankaris who refer to living Guru of the Sikhs as a mere book which is not worthy of more respect than a common library paperback.

*

The sacred Angs and Saroops of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji were being tossed on the ground and treated no better than ordinary newspaper or magazine by our own Panthic institutions.

*

The Authority of Sri Akal Takht Sahib Ji was being undermined by the likes of Gurbakhsh Kala-Afghana and other delusional heretics who have consistently declined to appear in front of this supreme Takht for their anti-Gurmat actions.

The answer is nowhere. Their concern is NOT about Reverence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or respect for the authority of Sri Akal Takht Sahib; the concerns of Ragi Darshan Singh’s supporters are completely different.

Silent on Beadbi of Guru Granth Sahib Ji

Why is the Ragi completely silent on the ongoing beadbi at Delhi Sikh Gurdwara Management Committee's printing press? Does the Ragi not have guts to criticize Sarna, for allowing such beadbi under his watch?

Very conveniently, the Parkash of Dasam Granth at Takht Patna Sahib seems to be more of a priority for the Ragi than what is happening in his own backyard. Why ? Perhaps it is because he does not to upset his Delhi masters.

It is obvious that Darshan Singh himself has violated multiple directives of Sri Akal Takht Sahib by criticizing the Bani of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, enshrined in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib. The directives of May 14th, 2000, and November, 17, 2006 clearly mandate respect for Sri Dasam Granth Sahib. The second directive from Sri Akal Takht Sahib actually makes it clear that those who criticize the contents of Sri Dasam Granth are “mischievous elements”. Moreover, another directive was issued on January 8th, 2007 cautioning the Sikh Community on Ragi Darshan Singh’s misleading parchar.

Yes, it is unprecedented for Takht Sri Patna Sahib to issue such a decree, but was it not the duty of the current Jathedar of Sri Akal Takht Sahib, Joginder Singh Vedanti, to summon the roguish Ragi for his continual violations? Perhaps if Joginder Singh Vedanti had fulfilled his duties as the Jathedar of Sri Akal Takht Sahib, this Ragi’s anti-Gurmat follies could have been curtailed much earlier.

Banquet Hall Hukamana by Kala-Afghanis ?

Due to various violations, Darshan Singh has not been allowed to use most Gurdwara stages in his home town of Toronto, Canada for many years. Not welcomed in Panthic circles, his supporters had to resort to holding functions inside banquet halls and resturarants many times.

It is a well known fact that several years ago, the Ragi participated in an Akhand Patth and Kirtan Divan that was held at the Congress Party member owned 'Lal Suhag' Banquet Hall in Brampton, Canada, where liquor and meat flow frreely. Like Paramjit Sarna, the Ragi's closest supporters are mostly Congress party members. It's a shame that a person who calls himself ex-Jathedar and lectures the Panth on Dasam Granth feels more comfortable in the company naastics and patits, who do now even know the names of the Nitem Bani

Those are very people who last week honored him inside a banquet hall for his ‘Panthic’ services. Incidentally this was the same gathering that “ex-communicated” Giani Iqbal Singh from the Panth. Ridiculously, the same people who deplored the Patna Sahib decree have in past issued their own ‘matta’ from within a “restaurant”, absurdly surpassing even Giani Puran Singh’s HukamNama issued from the Guna Railroad station.

No complaints during Jathedari Days

If one listens to Ragi Darshan Singh’s current tirades against Dasam Bani, RahitNamas, and Nitname Banis, one wonders what circumstances made him qualify to become the Jathedar of Sri Akal Takht Sahib? During his Jathedari, he had frequented Takht Sri Patna Sahib, and Hazur Sahib many times. At both Takhts parkash of Sri Dasam Granth is done on smaller lower Palki in the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Interestingly, being the Jathdar if Sri Akal Takht Sahib, he could have easily brought about changes to this maryada. Yet, he never once complained about this situation. Now, more than 20 years later he realizes the truth? Or is this just one big act?

Darshan Singh: The Bollywood Ragi

The above movie, titled ‘Nimmo’ was released in 1984. While the rest of the Panth was being besieged by the Indian Armed Forces, hundreds of youths had been killed, and thousands imprisoned due to the Dharam Yudh Morcha, Darshan Singh Ragi was busy acting in a ‘Bollywood’ type movie in which he praises Dusht Daman as the previous incarnation of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

Filmed in the scenic foothills on the way to Hemkunt Sahib, the Ragi plays the part of a Sikh parcharik who introduces the trip to Sri Hemkunt Sahib by stating:

“ਗੁਰਮੁਖ ਪਿਆਰੀ ਸਾਧ ਸੰਗਤ ਜੀ…ਭਾਗਾਂ ਵਲੇ ਹੋ ! ਅੱਜ ਅਸੀਂ ਮਹਾਨ ਤਪੱਸਵੀ ਦੁਸ਼ਟ ਦਮਨ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਤਪ ਅਸਥਾਨ ਹੇਮਕੁੰਟ ਦੇ ਦਰਸ਼ਨਾ ਲਈ ਜਾ ਰਹੇ ਹਾਂ…”

He then narrates the story stating Guru Teg Bahdur Sahib in his previous life was also a tapasvi, and he was being disturbed by the Rakshahs (demons) that were looking for Durga Devi. Ragi Darshan Singh then states “at that time Guru Gobind Singh appeared as Dusht Daman and eliminated the Rakshahs (demons).”

The Ragi then is shown leading his yatrees to Sri Hemkunt Sahib, while continuously waving his arms and singing the last verses of Charitropakhyaan known as Chaupai Sahib and hiking to the Gurdwara Sahib and the Sarovar.

Compare the above scene to the irrational anti-Dasam Bani outbursts by Ragi from the stages of Gurdwara Rakabganj Sahib in January 2008. One wonders if he is really a Panthic parcharik, a stage actor, or a politician.

True Panthic parchariks do not star in Bollywood movies or rub shoulders with the corrupt and crooked politicians. Take a look at this Ragi’s road trip from Bollywood to taking on the Patna Sahib Takht.

Posing for a publicity shot. Bollywood Actor or Ragi ?

Ragi Darshan Singh with Panthic-Dusht Surjit Barnala and a young Giani Kewal Singh

Ragi with Shshil Muni : Backroom deals with Indian Goverment liaisons

Ragi and Puran Singh : A Jathedari of convenience

Blessings from one of his Delhi masters - Avtar Hitt

Another of his Delhi masters, Buta Singh, who was ex-communicated from the Panth in the 1980s

Is Ragi nothing more than a stage actor? If paid in kind, he can sing praises of Dusht Daman, and the Jajharoos. Now that his masters have changed - so has his message and tone.

We can not blame just Giani Iqbal Singh, but the Ragi himself, for undermining, the very concept of Miri-Piri that he purported to have stood for, when he was the Jathedar of the Takht Sahib.

With what face can those who have come out in support of this mischievous Ragi call themselves supporters of Sri Akal Takht Sahib? The same people openly violate HukamNamas from Akal Takht Sahib but for publicity stunts claim to be supporters of Akal Takht Sahib. Those who undermine it have been historically cast away and discarded. This authority can not be challenged by anyone; whether it is Ambala, Bhasuaria, Kala-Afghana, or the Ragi himself. The same will happen to those who assist and sympathize with such heretics and mischiefs.

Sikh Sangat should be wary of efforts of those like Prof. Darshan Singh who claim to be sympathizers of Akal Takht Sahib but in reality they want to destroy the very basis of the Sikh faith. Their fight is not with Takat Sri Patna Sahib, for the Takht’s actions are not even the issue, the fight is really against anyone who stands for the propagation of the Khalsa Panth. Those who have shamefully aligned with the Ragi should question themselves whether by countering the ‘mandate’ of Takht Sri Patna Sahib they are working to preserve the status of Akal Takht Sahib or trying to hide the mistakes committed by the Ragi.

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Some more anti sikh activities of ragi darshan singh who is heading no w kala afghan adn missionary/singsabha canada heretics.

http://www.panthic.org/news/131/ARTICLE/4452/2008-10-17.html

Heretic Ragi Attempts to Spoil Gurta-Gaddi Celebrations in Europe

(Editorial)

Friday 17th of October 2008

Editors

* Strong opposition against heretic ragi in Germany, Ireland, and the UK

* Backs off from signed Hamburg agreement

Despite the various appeals, Hukamnamas, and Gurmattas issued by Sri Akal Takht Sahib, and the warnings by virtually all Panthic organizations, the rabid Ragi Darsan Sinh, does not seem to be toning down his venomous rhetoric against the sacred banis of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib.

His latest folly included a stint in Germany, Ireland and the UK, where he was met with resistance by the Sangat that has lost most respect for the aging, mostly wheel-chair bound heretic they now denounce as a "traitor" and a RAW agent (India’s clandestine Research Analysis Wing Agency).

Various Hukamnamas and Gurmattas from Sri Akal Takht Sahib have demanded that all Sikh organizations and institutions, including specifically Ragi Darshan Sinh, not to stir up un-necessary controversy in regards to Sri Dasam Granth Sahib from any public stage or medium.

Yet, the contemptuous Ragi, who has lived off the Sikh Sangat’s donations his entire life, is now working hand-in-hand with followers of other ex-communicated heretics, such as Gurbakhsh Kala-Afghana, and Joginder Sawney (Rozana Spokesman). Giani Iqbal Singh, Takht Sri Patna Sahib Jathedar who had earlier declared Ragi a 'pakka tankhayai', and the other Jathedars, have shown extensive restraint so far—mainly due to the upcoming Gurta-Gaddi celebrations.

It seems that the Ragi has interpreted the silence of Sikh bodies as a nod to accelerate his anti-Panthic propaganda. Not too long ago in Delhi, when the Jagitri procession connected to the Gurta-Gaddi celebrations was passing through New Delhi, Ragi quickly boarded a plane to Delhi and donned a ridiculous black cloak and vowed to wear it until the Sikh Nation rejected the idea that Sri Dasam Granth was the Bani of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

His absurd actions and words are not only misleading the innocent public, but have seemed to attract some so-called Sikh leaders who are ignorant about Gurmat and Sikh history in general. This fact became evident during the Ragi’s recent tour of Germany where he was honored by deluded representatives of Dal Khalsa, Babbar Khalsa, Student Federations, AKJ and some Akali Dal factions.

Last week, when Ragi visted Germany under the guise of celebrating the upcoming 300th anniversary of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, he misled several such ignorant, self-serving leaders and Gurdwara committee members using the absurd claim that the RSS was stirring up an enormous "conspiracy" with the aim of replacing Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji with Sri Dasam Granth and declaring the latter as the "Guru" of the Sikhs.

Due to his hateful attacks on Sri Dasam Bani, he was met with vocal opposition from the Sangat in Hamburg where he was scheduled to speak on stage at the local Gurdwara Sahib. During a meeting held at Hamburg Gurdwara Sahib, the Ragi, in the words of his mentor, Kala-Afghana, alleged that there was no proof that any of the Nitnem banis were even read by Guru Gobind Singh Ji during the 1699 Baisakhi Amrit-Sanchar.

Ragi : 'No proof 5 Nitnem Banis were ever read during first Amrit-Sanchar'

Due to Sangat’s opposition, Darshan Sinh reluctantly agreed not to stir up any further controversy on Sri Dasam Granth Sahib until the 300th Gurta-Gaddi celebrations were concluded. The agreement was signed by the Ragi and the local committee members, it is being shown below for our readers' benefit.

Agreement Signed by Ragi and Hamburg Sikhs (Page 1, Page 2)

Bhai Sukhwinder Singh, a host on UK's Akash Radio discussed the fiasco caused by Ragi Darshan Sinh on his talk show. We have provided an audio of this discussion, the Sangat can judge for themselves the mischievous agenda of the Ragi and his associates. Click to listen:

Bhai Sukhwinder Singh, Host of Akash Radio (UK)

Although Sri Akal Takht Sahib directives already forbid any criticism of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib regardless of the Gurta-Gaddi celebrations, the Ragi quickly exposed his true face when only a day after this agreement, he went against his own words and went on a radio station in the UK where he restarted his anti-Sri Dasam Granth assaults. The shameless Ragi also went on record and issued a public statement in the Kala-Afghani mouthpiece, Rozana Spokesman, that all Sikhs should boycott the upcoming celebrations at Takht Sri Hazur Sahib, in Nanded, until Sri Dasam Granth is removed from the Takht.

Sadly, several individuals claiming association with Germany’s Dal Khalsa, Babbar Khalsa and Akhand Kirtani Jatha were amongst those who showed sympathy towards Darshan Sinh’s views. When contacted by Panthic Weekly, representatives of various international units of Akhand Kirtani Jatha, including, Toronto, Canada, California, Sweden, Denmark, and France, were shocked that the organization’s name was being mis-represented by some self-serving European Sikh politicians as they were attempting to align themselves with anti-Sikh elements such as Darshan Sinh.

All different bodies of the Akhand Kirtani Jatha condemned not only Ragi Darshan Sinh but all those who offered their support to him in Germany and elsewhere. According to the representatives based in Toronto, who came down heavily on Ragi Darshan Sinh, "the Akhand Kirtani Jatha has led the fight against these nastics since the 1990’s, the Jatha initiated the challenge to the ragi at Takht Sri Damdama Sahib for an open debate with Panthic organizations, and he refused to show up for at the venue."

The Ragi has tried to promote himself as a neutral individual while he has continued to spread venom against Sri Dasam Granth. Interestingly, he has tried to win the support of leaders belonging to Akhand Kirtani Jatha and other Panthic Organizations, whereas in the past, he labeled these organizations as being RSS subsidiaries.

Several AKJ representatives hold close affiliation with the eleven member committee based in India, noted that that Jatha holds no sympathy towards the Ragi. They questioned, "Why would the Jatha now support him? He is an agent of the Indian Intelligence, and is doing exactly what they want: minimize the reverence of Sikh scriptures and divide and discredit Sikh organizations that are involved. Those who are assisting him cannot be associated with any Panthic organization."

Positively, in Ireland and the UK, the local Sangat stood unified against him, and therefore not allowed to speak at Gurgwara Guru Nakak Darbar in Dublin, and Sri Guru Singh Sabha Southall, one of the largest Gurdwara Sahibs in Europe.

"Loyal Panthic organizations... will always respect the Supreme Authority of Sri Akal Takht Sahib and the Khalsa Panth. This is what sets the Tat-Khalsa and the Malesh (pseudo) Khalsa, apart."

It is becoming increasingly clear that the raagi is out to damage Sikh interests, philosophy and history. His agenda is now no different than the likes of Kala-Afghana and Joginder Sawney. Panthic Organizations need to continue to expose him and his ilk before those claiming to represent them continue to laud him and his beliefs. Panthic Weekly will continue to update you on his escapades in the coming weeks as it seems his current stay in southall may include more preaching against Sikhi and its core beliefs.

Despite, the ongoing onslaught on the Sikh scriptures by such distractors and revisionists, our current and past history is replete of proof that loyal Panthic organizations, including the Nihang Dals, Singh Sabhas, Taksals, Semperdais, and Jathas will always respect the Supreme Authority of Sri Akal Takht Sahib and the Khalsa Panth. This is what sets the Tat-Khalsa and the Malesh (pseudo) Khalsa, apart.

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I write against RSS and yet I am RSS. Is that your logic? Leaving all cheap insults aside I will make it to the point.

Bijlaa Singh, I didn't expect you to be a lying machine. I thought you had some integrity but you have proven otherwise. Why would RSS fund someone to get rid of their devi devtas? Why would RSS fund someone to get rid of book which praises goddess?

First of all prove that I have lied. Second, it could very well be policy of RSS to praise Dasam Granth and hire anti-Dasam Granth group at the same time and the propaganda become..”RSS likes Dasam Granth so get rid of it”. Reminds me of the same scheme British was playing. On one hand they were trying their best to destroy Sikh kingdom secretly but from outside were offering help and assistance to save the Sikh kingdom from internal threats. What would cause the Sikhs to reject Dasam Granth more than the contents of Charittars? Clearly, RSS praising it. Then hire a team to oppose it and the best argument presented would be “RSS is pro-Dasam Granth”. What if RSS said “Guru Granth Sahib is the best granth and we like it”? Would we reject it just because RSS favors it? Are they not already saying that Gurbani praises Rama and Krishna? At the end, RSS wants Sikh identity gone and Dasam Granth keeps it alive. I have different opinion than you and do not believe Dasam Granth praises any hindu gods/goddesses. There is enough evidence within Dasam Granth to show that all devi/devtas get engulfed by kaal at the end and these avtars do not know God.

I brought in SUmra because you didn't reply to him on sikhmarg.

You are misunderstood. He quit replying back even after he diverted the topic. He first wrote a letter with intent to insult me and making up lies. It was not even remotely related to my article. When I responded back, he made more personal attacks and changed the topic to charittars. He made it clear that his second response was his last. I wrote a reply back but it was never responded to by him or anyone else. So the debate ended. You can go back and check yourself. Next time, do not blame me for not replying and resort to cheap shots. This little thing has nothing to do with the topic or Dasam Granth. I am replying to your posts and that’s all you need to worry about.

I do not have the time to debate nor do I have that much knowledge. I am not bothered by what others believe in so no need for me to travel and convince them. I suggest you stop wasting time in writing silly posts and devout that time to discussing Dasam Granth in rational manner. Stick to the topic and keep it simple.

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Shameless kala afghani and singhsabha canada member Gurpreet sumra, a friend of fauji, wrote on IHRO forum on Aug 5,2006.

Note the sarcasm in the tone. The attack is not Dasam granth , the real attack is on Guru gobind singh ji.

When sangat ocnfronted he ran away from that forum.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IHRO/message/2791

Re: [iHRO.IN] RE: Who was Lady ANOOP KAUR referred to in Chriters 21, 22 and 23 of "Chritropakhyaan'

Agent Dalip Singh jeeyo,

1)Why did Guru Gobind Singh went to learn Bhagauti mantar?

2)Guru Gobind started running like a coward with his head over his heels when

girlfriend Anoop Kaur started shouting chor-chor?

3)Guru Gobind Singh was so scared that he left his shoe and blanket over there

in hurry afraid of getting kutapa from people?

How is Sudarshan,Advani,Thackeray and Puran Singh?

I think Sudarshan has again started his payments to you.Say my hello to Sangh

parivar.

For members interested in the story of girlfriend of Guru Gobind Singh,Anoop

Kaur(as per Piara Singh Padam, Dalip Singh,RSS,VHP,BJP,Bajrang Dal) visit the

following link

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RSS will never say they only accept Guru Granth Sahib Ji. THey day they do, they will not be anti-panthic anymore because then they will shed their devi devtas. My point for bringing in RSS was that RSS supports Dasam Granth so don't label us as RSS agents because they do opposite. You guys say we are the same. How? RSS makes pictures of Guru Ji with devi devtas, we are against creating pictures of Guru Ji period. How are we the same? Dasam Granth isn't the only issue with RSS. They got other issues as well. They want to Hindufy Sikhi and no one does that better than Dasam Granth. How? Bring live talk to Toronto. I don't have time to discuss here. Bring live talk and we can go through everything related to Dasam Granth including Sarbloh Granth and Ugardanti.

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"Not too long ago in Delhi, when the Jagitri procession connected to the Gurta-Gaddi celebrations was passing through New Delhi, Ragi quickly boarded a plane to Delhi and donned a ridiculous black cloak and vowed to wear it until the Sikh Nation rejected the idea that Sri Dasam Granth was the Bani of Guru Gobind Singh Ji."

He'll take his 'Kala Kuffin' to his grave. In the meantime, he will save a fortune on buying new clothes.

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'Khalsa Fauj', you have actually stated that Taksal and Nihangs are posing as Sikhs.

Are you serious mate?

Baba Deep Singh ji and Sant Jarnail Singh ji Bhindranwale were just posers?

The great Akaali Phoola Singh ji was a poser?

Is that what you you think?

If so, you are beyond belief.

So who are the true Sikhs? Ghagga? Kala-Afghana? :rolleyes:

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You said word Mahakaal is used in Guru Granth Sahib JI for God. You haven't shown me that yet

Fauji

This is second time i am posting for you.Please see below

raam naam simar too jeeveh fir na khaa-ee mahaa kaal. ||1|| rahaa-o.

Meditating in remembrance on the Lord's Name, you shall live, and the Great Death shall not consume you ever again. ||1||Pause||

Ang 885, SGGS

Apart from that mahakal is also desribed in Charitropakhayan. In that Mahakal

comes to the defence of his devotee a saintly lady who fights demons.

Read below

ਚਾਹਤ ਮਹਾ ਕਾਲ ਕਹ ਮਾਰੋ ॥

ਮਹਾ ਪੂਰਖ ਨਹਿ ਕਰਤ ਬਿਚਾਰੋ ॥

Asura forces wanted to kill Mahakal

But fools did not think

ਜਿਨ ਸਭ ਜਗ ਕਾ ਕਰਾ ਪਸਾਰਾ ॥

ਤਾਹਿ ਚਹਤ ਤੇ ਮੂੜ ਸੰਘਾਰਾ ॥੭੬॥

That Mahakal who has created the whole world

How can they kill Him

Charitropakhayan Dasam granth

Most of the terms these heretics distort, answers for those are

found in Charitropakhayan. So is word kalka to which these heretics refer

as Devi. That is also found in Charitropakhyan. It is not devi.It means of Kal.

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Is Mahakaal used for God in above quote from Guru Granth Sahib or something anti-God?

Do you agree that God is both creator and destroyer of our life? Give your opinion.

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RSS will never say they only accept Guru Granth Sahib Ji. THey day they do, they will not be anti-panthic anymore because then they will shed their devi devtas. My point for bringing in RSS was that RSS supports Dasam Granth so don't label us as RSS agents because they do opposite. You guys say we are the same. How? RSS makes pictures of Guru Ji with devi devtas, we are against creating pictures of Guru Ji period. How are we the same? Dasam Granth isn't the only issue with RSS. They got other issues as well. They want to Hindufy Sikhi and no one does that better than Dasam Granth. How? Bring live talk to Toronto. I don't have time to discuss here. Bring live talk and we can go through everything related to Dasam Granth including Sarbloh Granth and Ugardanti.

You people get fake unsigned letters from RSS terming those who defend Dasam Granth sahib as RSS agents.

That letter is not signed even by anyone. The man under atatck is that who got a Hukamnama from akal takhat

for boycott f RSS. Watch the video below.

JUS Punjabi TV Talk on RSS

http://santsipahi.org/index.php?option=com...w&Itemid=73

Now there is a RSS man right on this forum who is supporting you from other side by criticizing Dasam granth

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The constitution of the RSS states that it would propagate the banis of Sri Guru Granth Sahib! So? what should we do? Do we also ostracise Sri Guru Granth Sahib, just because RSS is propagating it? Interestingly the logo of the (Rashtriya Sikh Sangat) RSS has the excerpt from Guru Nanak Sahibs Bani. Second, was RSS present when the banis of Dasam Granth were written or compiled? Third would the RSS propagate the bani which ridicules the Hindu Avtaars. "raam raheem puran kuran anek kahe mat ek na manyo" (Raamavtaar). "mae na ganeshe pritham manaoo, kishan bishan kabhoon na dhiaoon" (Krishanavtaar). "jite raam hooyen, sabhe ant mooye. jite kishan hve haen, sabhe ant jai haen. (Bachiter Natak). After writing about every Hindu avtaar, Guru Gobind Singh Sahib has written very clearly what he believes in. He knew that people like Kala would get confused and would come up with their own idiotic logic.

All bla bla without any facts.The constitution of the RSS states that it would propagate the banis of Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Do we also ostracise Sri Guru Granth Sahib, just because RSS is propagating it?

The logo of the (Rashtriya Sikh Sangat) RSS has the excerpt from Guru Nanak Sahibs Bani.Shall we discard SGGS also?

Why would RSS propagate dasam bani which ridicules the Hindu Avtaars.Examples below

"raam raheem puran kuran anek kahe mat ek na manyo" (Raamavtaar).

"mae na ganeshe pritham manaoo, kishan bishan kabhoon na dhiaoon" (Krishanavtaar).

"jite raam hooyen, sabhe ant mooye. jite kishan hve haen, sabhe ant jai haen. (Bachiter Natak).

After writing about every Hindu avtaar, Guru Gobind Singh Sahib has written very clearly what he believes in. He knew that

people like Kala chelas would get confused and would come up with their own idiotic logic.

You people get fake unsigned letters from RSS terming those who defend Dasam Granth sahib as RSS agents.

That letter is not signed even by anyone. The man under atatck is that who got a Hukamnama from akal takhat

for boycott of RSS. Watch the video below.

JUS Punjabi TV Talk on RSS

http://santsipahi.org/index.php?option=com...w&Itemid=73

Now there is a RSS man right on this forum who is supporting you from other side by criticizing Dasam granth

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Inder Singh, you keep saying I am kala afgani. How many times do I have to tell you that I am Punjabi? I am not kala or afgani so there is no chance I am kala afgani. Please don't make things up. Thanks in advance.

Someone said are taksalis and nihangs fake Sikhs? Depends onw which taksali or nihungs you are talking about. There are fake ones and there are true ones. True ones are those who submit to truth of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Someone said I don't believe in Guru Granth Sahib Ji because I don't believe in Raagmaalaa. Raagmaalaa is a separate issue so we can hold separate talk about that later on.

Someone said I get paid by RSS. Does anyone want to view my bank statements? If so, please come to Toronto and I can show you my bank statements. It is very very wrong to slander Gurmukhs like that. Gurbani says:

ਨਿੰਦਾ ਹੋਇ ਤ ਬੈਕੁੰਠਿ ਜਾਈਐ ॥ ਨਾਮੁ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਮਨਹਿ ਬਸਾਈਐ ॥ ਰਿਦੈ ਸੁਧ ਜਉ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਹਮਰੇ ਕਪਰੇ ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਧੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਕਰੈ ਸੁ ਹਮਰਾ ਮੀਤੁ ॥ ਨਿੰਦਕ ਮਾਹਿ ਹਮਾਰਾ ਚੀਤੁ ॥ ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਸੋ ਜੋ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਹੋਰੈ ॥ ਹਮਰਾ ਜੀਵਨੁ ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਲੋਰੈ ॥੨॥ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਹਮਰੀ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਹਮਰਾ ਕਰੈ ਉਧਾਰੁ ॥ ਜਨ ਕਬੀਰ ਕਉ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਸਾਰੁ ॥ ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਡੂਬਾ ਹਮ ਉਤਰੇ ਪਾਰਿ ॥੩॥੨੦॥੭੧॥

Inder Singh Ji, Naam Jappeaa Karo. Tuhaadee umar bohat hoa gaee hai. Nindaa, baad bebaad, these will not go with you. Gurbani says:

ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਵੈ ॥ ਭਗਤਿ ਬਿਨਾ ਸਹਸਾ ਨਹ ਚੂਕੈ ਗੁਰੁ ਇਹੁ ਭੇਦੁ ਬਤਾਵੈ ॥੧॥

Like I said before, I don't have time to discuss DG online here. I have a very busy schedule. Come to Toronto if there is desire to discuss Dasam Granth. Last time I wasted 5 precious days talking discussing Dasam Granth. What was discussed in 5 days could have been discussed in 2 hours in face to face talk.

Also, Inder Singh, I don't get any letters from anyone. RSS is dangerous to Panth because they promote Hindu agenda while we oppose that. You know that very well too because you accused me of being a Hindu hater many times. You know very well that I can never be a RSS person. Unless you define RSS as something else.

Also, Hinduism is broad and has many beliefs. Some believe in Raam only and reject other devi devtas. Some reject all devi devtas except Shiv, etc. etc. Just because Dasam Granth doesn't pray to Raam Krishan, it doesn't mean it rejects other devi devtas. Also, it is best to analyse who granth and understand isntead of picking certain sections.

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Inder Singh, you keep saying I am kala afgani. How many times do I have to tell you that I am Punjabi? I am not kala or afgani so there is no chance I am kala afgani. Please don't make things up. Thanks in advance.

Someone said are taksalis and nihangs fake Sikhs? Depends onw which taksali or nihungs you are talking about. There are fake ones and there are true ones. True ones are those who submit to truth of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Someone said I don't believe in Guru Granth Sahib Ji because I don't believe in Raagmaalaa. Raagmaalaa is a separate issue so we can hold separate talk about that later on.

Someone said I get paid by RSS. Does anyone want to view my bank statements? If so, please come to Toronto and I can show you my bank statements. It is very very wrong to slander Gurmukhs like that. Gurbani says:

ਨਿੰਦਾ ਹੋਇ ਤ ਬੈਕੁੰਠਿ ਜਾਈਐ ॥ ਨਾਮੁ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਮਨਹਿ ਬਸਾਈਐ ॥ ਰਿਦੈ ਸੁਧ ਜਉ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਹਮਰੇ ਕਪਰੇ ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਧੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਕਰੈ ਸੁ ਹਮਰਾ ਮੀਤੁ ॥ ਨਿੰਦਕ ਮਾਹਿ ਹਮਾਰਾ ਚੀਤੁ ॥ ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਸੋ ਜੋ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਹੋਰੈ ॥ ਹਮਰਾ ਜੀਵਨੁ ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਲੋਰੈ ॥੨॥ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਹਮਰੀ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਹਮਰਾ ਕਰੈ ਉਧਾਰੁ ॥ ਜਨ ਕਬੀਰ ਕਉ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਸਾਰੁ ॥ ਨਿੰਦਕੁ ਡੂਬਾ ਹਮ ਉਤਰੇ ਪਾਰਿ ॥੩॥੨੦॥੭੧॥

Inder Singh Ji, Naam Jappeaa Karo. Tuhaadee umar bohat hoa gaee hai. Nindaa, baad bebaad, these will not go with you. Gurbani says:

ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਪਾਵੈ ॥ ਭਗਤਿ ਬਿਨਾ ਸਹਸਾ ਨਹ ਚੂਕੈ ਗੁਰੁ ਇਹੁ ਭੇਦੁ ਬਤਾਵੈ ॥੧॥

Like I said before, I don't have time to discuss DG online here. I have a very busy schedule. Come to Toronto if there is desire to discuss Dasam Granth. Last time I wasted 5 precious days talking discussing Dasam Granth. What was discussed in 5 days could have been discussed in 2 hours in face to face talk.

Also, Inder Singh, I don't get any letters from anyone. RSS is dangerous to Panth because they promote Hindu agenda while we oppose that. You know that very well too because you accused me of being a Hindu hater many times. You know very well that I can never be a RSS person. Unless you define RSS as something else.

Also, Hinduism is broad and has many beliefs. Some believe in Raam only and reject other devi devtas. Some reject all devi devtas except Shiv, etc. etc. Just because Dasam Granth doesn't pray to Raam Krishan, it doesn't mean it rejects other devi devtas. Also, it is best to analyse who granth and understand isntead of picking certain sections.

fauji

I have shown you some beliefs of RSS. So stop preaching that RSS is supporting Dasam granth.

Dasam granth is scripture of Sikhs and Sikh panth is supporting Dasam Granth.

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Inder Singh Ji, you haven't shown dadoo. Fact is RSS believes in Devi Devtas and no one rejects devi devtas like Gurbani. RSS loves to show pics with Raam giving boon to Sahibzadas. Gurmat doesn't belive in boons, Dasam Granth does. Giving boons and sraaps isn't Gurmat.

Gurbani is all about Hukam.

Hukam Rajaaee Chalnaa, Nanak Likheaa Naal

We can discuss if DG is Sikh scripture of sabjee of Gurmat and Hindumat scripture. You can bring live talk to Toronto. Please show face in Toronto.

Just one question:

Why is there no mention of Piir Buddhu Shah in Bachitter Natak if Guru Ji wrote it. There is mention of bhung drinking, gdaar Kirpaal Daas Udasi in good light but no mention of Piir Buddhu Shah or the 700 followers he brought to war. No mention of shaheedi of his 2 sons or 2 brothers either. Inder Singh, join with truth. Leave ego and come to enlightenment. Follow this bachan of Gurbani:

ਕਾ ਬਾਣੀ ਇਕੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਇਕੋ ਸਬਦੁ ਵੀਚਾਰਿ ॥ ਸਚਾ ਸਉਦਾ ਹਟੁ ਸਚੁ ਰਤਨੀ ਭਰੇ ਭੰਡਾਰ ॥ ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਤੇ ਪਾਈਅਨਿ ਜੇ ਦੇਵੈ ਦੇਵਣਹਾਰੁ ॥ ਸਚਾ ਸਉਦਾ ਲਾਭੁ ਸਦਾ ਖਟਿਆ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਪਾਰੁ ॥ ਵਿਖੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪ੍ਰਗਟਿਆ ਕਰਮਿ ਪੀਆਵਣਹਾਰੁ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੁ ਸਲਾਹੀਐ ਧੰਨੁ ਸਵਾਰਣਹਾਰੁ ॥੨॥

I know you will not because Gurbani also says:

ਜਿਨਾ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਕੂੜੁ ਵਰਤੈ ਸਚੁ ਨ ਭਾਵਈ ॥ ਜੇ ਕੋ ਬੋਲੈ ਸਚੁ ਕੂੜਾ ਜਲਿ ਜਾਵਈ ॥ ਕੂੜਿਆਰੀ ਰਜੈ ਕੂੜਿ ਜਿਉ ਵਿਸਟਾ ਕਾਗੁ ਖਾਵਈ ॥ ਜਿਸੁ ਹਰਿ ਹੋਇ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਲੁ ਸੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਵਈ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਰਾਧਿ ਕੂੜੁ ਪਾਪੁ ਲਹਿ ਜਾਵਈ ॥੧੦॥

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