shaheediyan Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 I was watching a video of his in India and just happened across something which I found more than a little odd... Its not a big deal really, we all know Sant Ranjit Singh likes to dress up (with all due respect) and as of late, he is following a trend which I have seen other sevadaars take up i.e. wearing Nihang dress e.g. Moranvalai Dhadi Jathaa. So, I was admiring Sant Jis new dhummalla, it has one of those now common thin steel rings which many kids wear (symbolic chakkar), it had punj shastar protruding etc, but what got me, were the chains of a shingaar. As per many South East Asian Warrior cultures, a Boers tooth represents the bravery of a Warrior, who has risked life and limb killing one of these 'Tiger gauging' animals, the wearing of the prize serves as an indicator of his ordeal and of his proven manliness/courage. Same used to be true for Singhs of the old (yes, some people do it today in Punjaab also - for fun rather than training), as part of their Warrior training, the shakaar of a Jungli Soor and wearing of the dhand was a traditional sign of a soorma. Why pray is Sant Ji wearing one...? Esp, as far as I know, they practice and preach as per teh Sant tradition - no killing of animals etc... Not trying to create contraversy, just asking an intelligent audience their views, maybe someone who knows Sants Ji/or is going to see him over the next week or so in the UK could ask him (I would myself, but am a little busy over the next few months)... Ta. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) I believe vegetarian and animal killing are two different things. Sant Ji has the heart of a warrior! Much more of a soorma than any one of us! Plus, although its true it was only Nihangs who wore bana and dumalla for the past few hundred years, that doesn't mean it wasn't intended to be for all Khalsa. Oh noess!! tiger skin!! Edited July 24, 2009 by Silence 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted July 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Actually killing an animal and eating meat are very similar - as they are nearly always interlinked. Sant-Mat does not believe Singhs hunted, only that Gurus did - and even then, only to give the pashu jeev mukti. I doubt very much Sant Ji killed a Boer and decorated his Dhumalla, thats not what you are implying is it? Shingaar is a sign of warrior skill, not just warrior spirit. Do you even know why Sadhus of old used Tiger skins (I'll give you a clue, they were not a sign of their hunting skill). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 I'm 100% certain they don't wear a soor dandh (boar's tusk). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Maybe it was gifted it to him. And maybe there is always the possibility that he did go hunting in the jungles of UP and hunted a wild boar. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted July 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Matheen Ji, the only other possibility is he removed the Soor Dhand from the Shingaar and replaced it with something plastic or something, as there needs to be a something tucked into the dhumalla keeping the hanging chains attached. Mithar Ji, yes, of course that could be a possibility, although I personally see it as a little far fetched - seeing his background/sangat/influences etc. But would be interesting if it was true.... As I said, if any Premi of his is going to see him this week, kindly ask the question, would be much appreciated. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 I think this is perfect chance to meet him and casually ask him about this..baba ji is loving nature /shant sava..he won't mind at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 The Shingaar doesn't always have a soor dand attached, it's literally shingaar -i.e. decoration for the dastar. In India, many Nihang Singhs wear different types of shingar, the 3 little chains are sometimes attached to small shastar or even just to the tora. I don't know why he wears them though, it would be good if someone asks him. Does anyone know which samparda he's from? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted July 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Shingaar is originally a decoration attached to a Soor Dhand - I have spoken to and observed with Nihangs in India. I have not seen the types you mention, if they exist they are modern innovations. Sant Ji doesn't belong to a Sampryada - he has created his own jathaa. He is influenced by many different personalities/groups i.e. Bhinderan, Rara Sahib, Nanaksar etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) i will try and get to the bottom of this. my friend is very close to Sant Ranjit Singh and i will try to get this Q? to him. yes i noticed the same thing and i tried to explain this to some others and they laughed at what i was saying as they had no knowledge of what it really was about and also cos on the tv you could only see the chains and not the tooth. Sant ji background is that he was a sewak of a sewak of Sant Ishar Singh, im sorry i cant remmeber his name. But deffo his background goes to Rara Sahib. Edited July 25, 2009 by chatanga1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Sant Ranjit SIngh Ji learned from Sant Karam Singh ji Bhikhi Walae who were the sevaks o Sant Ishar sIngh Ji Rara Sahib Walae 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valli singh Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted July 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Do you mean their jathaa who wear blue dastaars? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valli singh Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepsingh Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 Sant Ranjit SIngh Ji learned from Sant Karam Singh ji Bhikhi Walae who were the sevaks o Sant Ishar sIngh Ji Rara Sahib Walae now i know why his dewans sound like sant isher singh ji's. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 now i know why his dewans sound like sant isher singh ji's. Not even close.... There are some big differences, not just style of Kirtan but Maryada at their dera, amongst others. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted July 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 The actual content/depth of Sant Ranjit Singhs divaans is pretty simple compared to Baba Ishar Singh Jis. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 (edited) That is because Sant Ranjit Singh appeals to a larger audience. If he goes into to much depth most people in panjab will lose interest. Sometimes its good to keep it simple (KISS) Edited July 26, 2009 by amardeep 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted July 26, 2009 Report Share Posted July 26, 2009 I don't think we should even try to compare them, but for what it's worth, Sant Isher Singh Ji's deevans used to have thousands of people and that was without advertising or media resources that exist today. Also, they only started doing parchaar after attaining Bhramgyan. Every Mahapursh has their own duty, the more parchaar the better. There's no question that Dhadrianwale can inspire Sangat to improve their lives, take Amrit, read Bani etc - just what we need at the moment. The deevans in the UK have been packed to the brim despite the efforts of nindaks like Jasvir Singh from Punjab Radio, which is good to see. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antharjaame Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 (edited) Its not a big deal really, we all know Sant Ranjit Singh likes to dress up (with all due respect) and as of late, he is following a trend which I have seen other sevadaars take up i.e. wearing Nihang dress e.g. Moranvalai Dhadi Jathaa. Actually, 'dressing up' as you imply is something which i do not think is a trend veer ji, but as Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Fauj, we should always be tyaar par tyaar, and shastardhari. Anyways, i have too seen singhs wearing shingaar with no tooth dhand attached to it. Also Baba Nihal singh ji of Harienbela and Baba Ranjit singh ji are very good friends and im sure that if there was any issue to this matter they would have disscussed it. On a side note, weren't shingaar also worn to warn the enemy of their arrival hence the ringing, or niose they make. Lastly, it is maha paap to try to compare mahapurkhs, as every sant has been given their own duty to carry out for certain purposes. How would any of you know that Sant Ranjit singh ji had already acheived Bhramgyan in their last life or not, it is futile for us to discuss the avastha of another, nevermind compare. There is nothing wrong with advertising to inform sangat and i can assure you sangat always attends in the thousands in india, etc. Edited September 5, 2009 by Antharjaame 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 kiss- keep it SHORT and simple. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 Shaheediyan Are you sure that the soor dhand was soley worn as an indicator of having killed a jungli soor in shikaar? If early European accounts are anything to go by, they also seemed to be used to help sullay converts get over their abhorance of the animal - hence they were apparently required to wear a soor dhand in some sort of armband. It was also reportedly used to stir Amrit for converts from that quarter by some (possibly nihungs). This was probably to filter out spies sent by the Moghuls? See Sicques, Tigers and Thieves. It mentions these things. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted September 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 (edited) "Actually, 'dressing up' as you imply is something which i do not think is a trend veer ji, but as Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Fauj, we should always be tyaar par tyaar, and shastardhari." Veera, thats your opinion. I believe one should dress according to their Vidya - i.e. 99.99% of Sants, dress as Sants traditionally do i.e. Nanaksari, Nirmalai etc to name a few. There have been a few exceptions like Baba Gurbachan Singh Khalsa who were shastardhari - but they had some knowledge of shastar use and had spent specific time with Nihangs, hence.. There is a whole nation of youth, Jathaas and Sikh personailites today who dress in Nihang dress, and yes it is a trend/fashion, as it is a recent observation across the board. I have met many of the above that have no idea re the traditions of the Nihang dress and the use of the 'big' shastar they are wearing. There is a saying in Nihang circles - 'Abyaas Bina, Shastar Manyo Bikh' without knowledge, treat your weapons as poison.. Being Tyaar BAR Tyaar implies having full training in combat in order to be 'ever ready for battle', not simply wearing the outfit and weapons as many youth today do. Anyhow, each to their own thinking, I am not attacking anyone, just giving my opinion on the general topic. Edited September 5, 2009 by shaheediyan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antharjaame Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 (edited) ^^ good points and i completely agree, all i am saying is that we cannot simply assume someone is wearing shastar without knowlegde of it even though alot of the youth tend to. Edited September 6, 2009 by Antharjaame 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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