Hyprocrisy Of Islamic Fanaticism

[tonyhp32]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0P5IaIE_LI...player_embedded

[SAadmin]

I am going to change title of your topic- hypocrisy of islamic fanatics.

[Kaljug]

I am going to change title of your topic- hypocrisy of islamic fanatics.

What was the original title and why the change?

If you want, you could follow the lead of the British media and call it Hypocricy of Asian Fanatics, or follow the lead of the American media and rename the thread "Hypocricy of Religious (they mayb e Christians, they may be Jews - we're not gonna tell ya - but their names are Abdul Bakakalalala Jihad and Mohammed ibn Kaboom ibn Laden) Fanatics".

K.

[SAadmin]

Intial title of hypocrirsy of Islam was grossly judged not suitable/not fair. Therefore it was changed to Islamic "fanaticism".

[tonyhp32]

It's Islam that teaches death for apostasy not Islamic fanatics. Islamaniacs just carry out Islam's injunctions. So I'm sorry but you are wrong Neo.

On a side note when I viewed the video I got this feeling that any minute now the guy who had the girl in his arms would turn out to be one of those Glory TV Masihi pakistani Christians who would face the camera and say ' praeise dah laard'

Edited August 12, 2009 by tonyhp32

[amardeep]

Is it just me or does it look fake?

however if its true i hope God protects her from any harm by her family and other fanatics

[tonyhp32]

Unfortunately it isn't fake. Here is a news report about the court case

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/...0,4993216.story

[HSD1]

what a whiny little girl. so what if she wants to be pimped by a vicar rather than an imman? its the same religion in the end. they all deserve a lot of suffering. also, if she loves jesus, why is she afraid of death? isnt going to heaven and banging jesus what they all want? talk about hypocrites.

[Kaljug]

Intial title of hypocrirsy of Islam was grossly judged not suitable/not fair. Therefore it was changed to Islamic "fanaticism".

Nope. Apostatasy in Islam is punishable by death. The Quran also commands Muslims to force non-Muslims to pay jizya tax and humiliate them each time they pay it, unless they convert to Islam.

Sahih Muslim Book 019, Number 4457 says: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) used not to kill the children, so thou shouldst not kill them unless you could know what Khadir had known about the child he killed, or you could distinguish between a child who would grow up to he a believer (and a child who would grow up to be a non-believer), so that you killed the (prospective) non-believer and left the (prospective) believer aside.

Khadir, or Khidr, figures in sura 18 of the Qur'an. He is traveling with Moses, and: "Then they proceeded: until, when they met a young man, he [Khadir] slew him. Moses said: "Hast thou slain an innocent person who had slain none? Truly a foul (unheard of) thing hast thou done!" Khadir replies: "As for the youth, his parents were people of Faith, and we feared that he would grieve them by obstinate rebellion and ingratitude (to Allah and man). So we desired that their Lord would give them in exchange (a son) better in purity (of conduct) and closer in affection...." (18:74, 18:80-81).

Umdat al-Salik 01.1-2 states: "retaliation is obligatory against anyone who kills a human being purely intentionally and without right. However, not subject to retaliation is a father or mother (or their fathers or mothers) for killing their offspring, or offspring's offspring."

Umdat al-Salik 08.1-2 says: "When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed. In such a case, it is obligatory for the caliph (A: or his representative) to ask him to repent and return to Islam. If he does, it is accepted from him, but if he refuses, he is immediately killed."

Umdat al-Salik is a manual of Islamic law certified by Al-Azhar University.

Hadith (Sahih Bukhari, 9.84.57) says: Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him."

I seriously think that you should spend some time reading the Quran, the Hadith and the Sharia to which they give birth before you make such changes in the future.

K.

Edited August 12, 2009 by Kaljug

[SAadmin]

I seriously think that you should spend some time reading the Quran, the Hadith and the Sharia to which they give birth before you make such changes in the future.

Why should i read quran when guru maharaj declared akaal ustat at the end all the dharams hold truth. I understand we are not gandhis, we don't follow politically correctness of this world but at least we need to acknowledge whats truth is truth. Topic tittle nor its contents didn't reflect whole islam.

This is harsh human truth applies to every very human nature, sharia panthi/fanatic will choose to see what they want to see, they will alway find somehow to misinterpret their scripture so its suit their own agenda, and mystics from the same scripture will see truth with their bibek and find salvation.

Scriptures are two edge sword, if its used for agenda, it could turn human into demon, if its used for gyan, it could turn human to bhramgyani.

By looking at the sad state of affairs in sikhi these days, i m sure 10-20 years from now, someone will get up from the panth and bomb mosques and mandirs and justify it by misquoting lines from Ugardanti and misinterpret Ugardanti. This act will be glorified and lead by bunch of people and here you go, we got our own future violent hostile cult. Luckily we don't now, but future says something else in Kalyug.

At the end of day, it appears there are quite bit of muslim fanatics but one gotta look at their population which is close to 1.1 billion compare that with our sikh population and our share of fanatics, after study of ratio, everything gets put into place.

No dharam is given clean chit, this is kalyug. History shows fanatics have repeatedly raped dharam morals to suit their own agenda because it has given them credibility, following and power. There were kharkhos of 1984 if you look at their life, some of their family and in some cases all their family was killed by indian forces, they had nothing but tamoguni revenge(unjustified revenge) in their hearts as any regular joe blow would, but they didn't went out and just kill to get their revenge, first they took amrit and then join movements so it give them more credibility, following and power and then they can start killing innocent people in name of dharam to hide their own helpless tamoguni revenge. At the end, silent sikh dharam was raped by these people, same thing happening with every other dharam even including buddhism which promotes ahinsa(non violence) dharam is been hijacked by siligans of sri lankas and commited atrocities against tamils in name of dharam.

Only thing remains untouched is truth/tat gyan of all dharams and the ones who apply truth in their daily life.

[Kaljug]

Why should i read quran when guru maharaj declared akaal ustat at the end all the dharams hold truth. I understand we are not gandhis, we don't follow politically correctness of this world but at least we need to acknowledge whats truth is truth. Topic tittle nor its contents didn't reflect whole islam.

This is harsh human truth applies to every very human nature, sharia panthi/fanatic will choose to see what they want to see, they will alway find somehow to misinterpret their scripture so its suit their own agenda, and mystics from the same scripture will see truth with their bibek and will find salvation.

Scriptures are two edge sword, if its used for agenda, it could turn human into demon, if its used for gyan, it could turn human to bhramgyani.

By looking at the sad state of affairs in sikhi these days, i m sure 10-20 years from now, someone will get up from the panth and bomb mosques and mandirs and justify it by misquoting lines from Ugardanti and misinterpret Ugardanti.

At at the end of day, it appears there are quite bit of muslim fanatics but one gotta look at their population which is close to 1.1 billion compare that with our sikh population and our share of fanatics, after study of ratio, everything gets put into place.

No dharam is given clean chit, this is kalyug. History shows fanatics have repeatedly raped dharam morals to suit their own agenda because it has given them credibility, following and power. There were kharkhos of 1984 if you look at their life, some of their family and in some cases all their family was killed by indian forces, they had nothing but tamoguni revenge(unjustified revenge) in their hearts as any regular joe blow would, but they didn't went out and just kill, first they took amrit and then join movements so it give themselves credibility, following and power so that they can start killing innocent people in name of dharam to hide their own revenge. At the end, silent sikh dharam was raped by these people, same thing happening with every other dharam even including buddhism which promotes ahinsa(non violence) dharam is been hijacked by siligans of sri lankas and commited atrocities against tamils in name of dharam.

Only thing remains untouched is truth/tat gyan of all dharams and the ones who apply truth in their daily life.

Fateh!

Neo:

Did you actually read the quotes I posted above and the surveys I shared on another thread?

The quotes are from the Quran and the Hadith. Ignoring them and saying that they do not represent Islam is like saying Sri Guru Granth Sahib & Bhai Gurdas Vaaran do not accurately reflect Sikhi.

The surveys I posted that in most cases above 50% of the population of Islamic countries support suicide bombing. That's 500 million people who want you and your family to die for not being Muslims, even if only a small fraction of them will actually have the stones to kill you. Are you seriously telling me that you believe that every other Gursikh you meet wants to murder innocents (or at least is OK with it)?

Why do you close your eyes to the reality of the situation and ignore what Islam actually teaches by using the excuse that Gurbani says that God exists in all religions? Gurbani teaches us that any premi of any religion can obtain phal of their respective religions, it doesn't say to ignore the obvious truth: the exhortations in Gurbani for all followers of religions to worship the Supreme does not mean that the exhortations to violence, genocide, rape and murder are not part and parcel of Islam's holy book.

It's also pretty darn silly to form opinions on other religious scriptures without reading what they say.

K.

Edited August 12, 2009 by Kaljug

[Xylitol]

Why should i read quran when guru maharaj declared akaal ustat at the end all the dharams hold truth. I understand we are not gandhis, we don't follow politically correctness of this world but at least we need to acknowledge whats truth is truth. Topic tittle nor its contents didn't reflect whole islam.

This is harsh human truth applies to every very human nature, sharia panthi/fanatic will choose to see what they want to see, they will alway find somehow to misinterpret their scripture so its suit their own agenda, and mystics from the same scripture will see truth with their bibek and find salvation.

Scriptures are two edge sword, if its used for agenda, it could turn human into demon, if its used for gyan, it could turn human to bhramgyani.

By looking at the sad state of affairs in sikhi these days, i m sure 10-20 years from now, someone will get up from the panth and bomb mosques and mandirs and justify it by misquoting lines from Ugardanti and misinterpret Ugardanti. This act will be glorified and lead by bunch of people and here you go, we got our own future violent hostile cult. Luckily we don't now, but future says something else in Kalyug.

At the end of day, it appears there are quite bit of muslim fanatics but one gotta look at their population which is close to 1.1 billion compare that with our sikh population and our share of fanatics, after study of ratio, everything gets put into place.

No dharam is given clean chit, this is kalyug. History shows fanatics have repeatedly raped dharam morals to suit their own agenda because it has given them credibility, following and power. There were kharkhos of 1984 if you look at their life, some of their family and in some cases all their family was killed by indian forces, they had nothing but tamoguni revenge(unjustified revenge) in their hearts as any regular joe blow would, but they didn't went out and just kill to get their revenge, first they took amrit and then join movements so it give them more credibility, following and power and then they can start killing innocent people in name of dharam to hide their own helpless tamoguni revenge. At the end, silent sikh dharam was raped by these people, same thing happening with every other dharam even including buddhism which promotes ahinsa(non violence) dharam is been hijacked by siligans of sri lankas and commited atrocities against tamils in name of dharam.

Only thing remains untouched is truth/tat gyan of all dharams and the ones who apply truth in their daily life.

Massacre of innocent humans can never be justified from Gurbani. Even a dimwitted person reading Gurbani could not find a justification. However, any person reading certain non-Sikh scripture could easily find not only justification, but outright provocation to slaughter innocents.

If you don't believe me, compare quotations from the Quran side by side with quotations from Gurbani. The Quran states to convert polytheists and atheists, and if they do not convert - kill them. Gurbani states that God himself unites and separates, to not harm unbelievers. The bottomline is, while the Quran contains great wisdom and parts that do should be respected for that, you do not need to twist the Quran to find justification/provocation to violence against innocents.

I'll post the quotations tomorrow if nobody else does, it's late right now.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Xylitol

[SAadmin]

Veer I never stated, gurbani justified murder of people or massacre of people nor i m trying compare dhur ki bani with quran. I am just saying sick twisted criminal/fanatic can misinterpret gurbani to fulfill their agenda, i gave example how ugardanti can be misinterpreted. Further more, just go to www.searchgurbani.com and then type in search - ਵਢ and use gurmukhi and you will see how gurbani can be misinterpreted. Again I am saying so far we don't have such violent mindset, but future might hold something else for the panth. Loads of mahapursh indicting worst have yet to come, in kalyug.

Wise people say- Half knowledge in something is more dangerous and lethal than no knowledge at all.

[Xylitol]

Veer I never stated, gurbani justified murder of people or massacre of people nor i m trying compare dhur ki bani with quran. I am just saying sick twisted criminal/fanatic can misinterpret gurbani to fulfill their agenda, i gave example how ugardanti can be misinterpreted. Further more, just go to www.searchgurbani.com and then type in search - ਵਢ and use gurmukhi and you will see how gurbani can be misinterpreted. Again I am saying so far we don't have such violent mindset, but future might hold something else for the panth. Loads of mahapursh indicting worst have yet to come, in kalyug.

Wise people say- Half knowledge in something is more dangerous and lethal than no knowledge at all.

I know you never said Bani justifies murder. But I got the impression you were saying that people who justify murder using the Quran are actually twisting it to find that justification.

Looks like some qoutations are up already, no point in posting them then I guess.

Btw, I want to make it clear that I judge people as individuals and not by their religion. I don't think it's ok to hate on a person just b/c of that person's religion. That being said, there are some unsettling teachings in the Quran which Islamist militants as well as radicalised Muslims seem to focus on which I think we should not ignore.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Xylitol

[HSD1]

No dharam is given clean chit, this is kalyug. History shows fanatics have repeatedly raped dharam morals to suit their own agenda because it has given them credibility, following and power. There were kharkhos of 1984 if you look at their life, some of their family and in some cases all their family was killed by indian forces, they had nothing but tamoguni revenge(unjustified revenge) in their hearts as any regular joe blow would, but they didn't went out and just kill to get their revenge, first they took amrit and then join movements so it give them more credibility, following and power and then they can start killing innocent people in name of dharam to hide their own helpless tamoguni revenge. At the end, silent sikh dharam was raped by these people, same thing happening with every other dharam even including buddhism which promotes ahinsa(non violence) dharam is been hijacked by siligans of sri lankas and commited atrocities against tamils in name of dharam.

i see what your saying. but on one hand some of us are tarred with the 'haters of islam' brush, and told that musis should be allowed to do what they want. but you cant then generalise the kharkoos as being people who hated the hindustani state and were motivated by revenge. if the american govt decided that all sikhs were fair game, and a bunch of US army rangers burst into your house and killed your family, wouldnt you want to get those who did it? justice is justice. if they change the rules and target on the basis of our faith then we have to stop them. many of the freedom fighters wanted to prevent anyone else suffering what they did. there were also thousands of moneh who fought the indian army, none of them hid behind the idea of using 'holiness' to justify their actions.

you also say that sikh dharam was raped by these people, and the sri lankans did the same to buddhism, then surely the militant islamic fundamentalism is the same thing? islam nowadays has lost any of its defining characteristics it gained when arabia was a superpower, and is as bad as christianity was in medieval europe. when i see a muslim i dont automatically think they are a bad person. i know of the influence that their culture and language has shaped us. but we will always be different as long as they play the kaffir card in order to unite the islamic world. when sikhs do bad things, many of us arent quiet about it, and things get done. go on a muslim forum, and you wont see any of that.

as for bombing mosques/mandirs/churches, i also feel that some of the sikh youth will be used in such a way. some will be coerced by the older generation who scream about khalistan but never actually went to fight for it (i'm 21 btw so i was a little too young, before anyone points fingers at me). but many sikhs nowadays are pulled into fighting for hindus/muslims/goreh. and thats where i think most of these future idiots will come from, fighting for one bunch of non-sikhs against another lot of non-sikhs.

[Mystical]

Thing is Christians also have their own propaganda to convert you. Most Christians now adays use people in live on TV to show "healing" in order to get more converts. But when real people with real sickness come to them they are taken away. Watch the video below and some things which some Chrisitans have done in order to convert people. The person shows how the gospels meanings have changed.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...lient=firefox-a

I have nothing against Jesus and have full respect for him.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Mystical

[SAadmin]

Just wanted to rephrase, not all kharkos were motivated by revenge. I meant to some. I like to also clarify, fanaticism is global problem is not bound to one religion. All fanatics be it - christians, islamic/muslims, buddhists, hindus, sikhs, jaini, communist, socialist, capitalist, atheist all are threat to this humanity...!!. They do not need to be jailed in Guantanamo bay nor killed, their hate parchar and form of recruit has to be rooted out from the seed if you want to save humanity...!

[Kaljug]

Veer I never stated, gurbani justified murder of people or massacre of people nor i m trying compare dhur ki bani with quran. I am just saying sick twisted criminal/fanatic can misinterpret gurbani to fulfill their agenda, i gave example how ugardanti can be misinterpreted. Further more, just go to www.searchgurbani.com and then type in search - ਵਢ and use gurmukhi and you will see how gurbani can be misinterpreted. Again I am saying so far we don't have such violent mindset, but future might hold something else for the panth. Loads of mahapursh indicting worst have yet to come, in kalyug.

Wise people say- Half knowledge in something is more dangerous and lethal than no knowledge at all.

Fateh!

Veera, you don't seem to be getting the very important difference that Muslims do not have to misinterpret the Quran - the command to convert, kill and rape non-Muslims are already there, and the first acts of Islamic terrorism was carried out by Mohammed himself and his earliest disciples.

Sikhs committing atrocities and using bani as their excuse would be a first in Sikh history and it has no justification in the behaviour and acts of our Gurus.

K.

[tonyhp32]

It's is amusing how Muslim propagandists and apologists in the west downplay the role the Quran has in motivating Islamic terrorism but there are some Sikhs here who try and create a motivation from gurbani where no exists for Sikhs who may have taken part in terrorist acts!