First Sampuran English Translations Of Charitaropakyan, Sri Dasam Granth

[SAadmin]

First Sampuran English translations of charitaropakyan, Sri Dasam Granth.

Please see-attachments

Right click and save target as:

13262747_English_Translation_of_Chritropakhyaan_From_Dasam_Granth_Vol1.pdf

13262753_English_Translation_of_Chritropakhyaan_From_Dasam_Granth_Vol2.pdf

[Matheen]

So many mistakes, but a start...

[SAadmin]

Even though pritpal singh bindra is staunchly against sri dasam granth. I think his translations seems to be ok when i speak to other people. I will compare some of his charitar translations with pandit naryan singh ji steek.

[Matheen]

For the most part they are ok, but the ones about Noop Koer are way off.

[dalsingh101]

I have heard some people claim that the Anoop Kaur tales refer to the personal experiences of dasmesh pita. Has anyne else heard this and what is the truth behind this claim? Where does it stem from? Also can anyone get the original text of these sakhis up? I notice the rajah in the tale worshipped Bhagwani....so I doubt it was dasmesh pita. Who was teh rajah of area in which we are talking at the time of Guru Gobind Singh? Can we identify him or is this tale just a fable/parable?

Chritar Twenty-one

Tale of Anoop Kaur

Dohira

The Monarch caught hold of his son and sent him to the prison, And

in the morning, through the Minister, called him back.(1)

Then he asked the Minster to narrate the Chritars of the wise men and

the women;(2)

On the banks of the river Sutlaj, there was a village by the name of

Anadpur.

It was situated near Naina Devi which situated was in the state of

Kahloor.(3)

There used to come several Sikhs with great pleasure,

And after getting their ambitions fulfilled, they used to go back to

their homes.(4)

The wife of a rich-man came to that town.

She fell for the Raja and was pierced with his love arrows.(5)

She had a servant, Magan Das whom she called,

And gave him some money and made him to understand like this.( 6)

‘You get me to meet the Raja,

‘And after encountering him 1 will give you lot of wealth.’(7)

Becoming greedy for money, Magan came to the Raja,

Fell on his feet and requested thus,(8)

‘The incantation you wanted to learn, has come in my possession.

‘To learn the same you will have to proceed the way I ask.(9)

Bhujang Chhand

The Raja put on the garb of an ascetic, meditating on Bhagwati, the

goddess, commenced his journey.

Walking and walking along, without looking back, reached the

residence of that damsel.(10)

On seeing him the dame adorned herself and ordered for flowers,

beetle leaf and wine.

She came forward herself to receive him and pacified her anxiety.(11)

Dohira

The woman weared the new clothes and put the expensive garments.

And in new form she adorned the decorated bed.(12)

Then the lady asked him, ‘Please have intercourse with me,

(57)

‘Because, tormented by Cupid, I am handing over myself to you.’(I3)

The monarch said ‘I had come to learn incantation,

But the situation is quite contrary (I4)

Arril

The one, who is considered as worship-worthy, should not become

egotistical.

If one becomes a rich man he should not beset the poor.

‘With prettiness one should not display arrogance,

‘Because the youth and beauty are sustainable for four (a few) days

only.(15)

Chhand

‘Righteousness endows auspicious birth and righteousness confers

beauty.

‘The righteousness augments the wealth and holiness and the

righteousness idealises the sovereignty.

‘Why should I abandon righteousness on your instance and make

myself worthy of hell? (l6)

‘Acquiescing to your request, I am not going to copulate with you,

‘Because, in my heart, I am apprehensive of denigrating my family.

‘Deserting behind my married woman (wife), I will never have sex with you.

‘I will never be able to find a place in the court of Lord of

Righteousness.’(l7)

Dohira

(She said,) ‘When a sexually distressed woman comes to a male,

‘And that male who turns her back disappointed, is worthy of hell.’(l8)

(He replied,) ‘People bow on my feet and worship me.

‘And you want me to have sex with you.

Aren’t you ashamed of yourself?’( 19)

(She said,) ‘Krishna was worshipped too, and he had indulged in

love plays.

‘He made love with Radhika, but they never went to hell.(20)

‘With five elements Brahama, the God, created human-beings,

And He, Himself initiated love in men and women.(2l)

Chaupaee

‘Therefore, without hesitation have sex with me,

Because the excitement for the sex overpowers all the parts of my body.

Without an encounter with you, I will burn in the fire of separation.(22)

(58)

Dohira

‘My each limb, seeking copulation, is afflicting me.

‘Why didn’t Ruder, the Great (Shiva) decimated it (sexual desire).’(23)

Chhand

(He) ‘Calm down, Oh Lady, the Cupid will not harm you.

‘You put your thought to Ruder, the Great, (Cupid) will be scared away.

‘Not to abandon my wife, I will never have sex with you.(24)

Arril

‘Just because you say, why should I have sex with you?

‘I am afraid of being put in the hell.

‘To copulate with you is like disowning the righteousness,

And my story will go around the whole world.(25)

‘How would I show my face to the Lord of Righteousness?

‘Lady, you better forsake the thought of my friendship,

‘You have said enough and, now, forget to talk more.’(26)

Anoop Kumari said, ‘If you, my love, have sex with me,

‘You will not be thrown in the hell. Don’t be scared.

‘How could people tattle about you when they are so afraid of you.(27)

Also they would talk only if they learn about the secret.

‘Even if one learns, fearful of you, will keep quiet.

‘You must make up your mind to sleep with me today,

‘Or, alternatively, you crawl through my legs.’(28)

(Raja,) ‘Only that one crawls through the legs who is unable to indulge

in sex,

And remains sitting whole night like a eunuch and does not perform.

‘Being prevailed by the righteousness I will not copulate with you.

‘I am always fearful of the criticism of the public.(29)

(She,) ‘Do whatever you may, but I will never leave you without sex.

‘With my own hands 1 will tear you off,

And, then, get myself sawn through at Kanshi and, would even face

the Lord of Righteousness in his court.(30)

‘Oh my love, I have sworn to bed with you, and

‘Fully satisfy myself carnally.

‘Tonight, through sex I will make you look more handsome,

And will make Cupid to lose his pride too.’(31)

Raja spoke, ‘First of all God has endowed me birth as a Kashatri,

(59)

Our dynasty is very much respected in the world.

Being seated (as Raja) I am worshipped.

‘But, now, if I ravish with you, I will be reborn in a low caste.’(32)

(She said,) ‘What are you talking about the birth? They are your

concoction..

‘If you don’t cherish me, then It will be my bad luck.

‘Without meeting you, I will poison myself.’(33)

Dohira

The Raja was worried, if she imposed the oath of Bhagauti, the

Goddess,

Be will have to ravish her and, then, go to hell.(34)

(She) ‘Get rid of all your doubts, savour me,

‘Because Cupid is over powering me.’(35)

(Be) ‘How-so-ever Cupid may overwhelm, due to the dread of hell,

I will never indulge with you.’(36)

Chhand

(She) ‘You have been bestowed with youth and I am young too.

‘Seeing you I have overcome with passion.

‘Abandon all your misconceptions and relish sex with me,

‘And don’t worry about the fear of the hell.’(37)

Dohira

‘The lady who comes to me to worship me,

‘To me, she is like the daughter of my Guru.’(38)

Chhand

What to talk of love with the women, as they never fulfil,

They desert one man and go after another who is better looking.

For whosoever she makes mind for, she becomes naked before him,

And immediately presents him her unclad urinary place.(39)

Dohira

(She, thinking,) ‘What should 1 do to save myself so that my mind is

appeased?

‘Your utterances depict love, how could I kill you.( 40)

The Raja went into deep thought, ‘I have no disciples of mine with me.

Chaupaee

:By living her my righteousness is destroyed,

But if I try to run away, she will get me caught.(41)

(60)

‘It will be better if I praise her and through dramatisation get rid of

her.

‘Without agreeing to commit sex, she will kill me.

‘I wish some disciple of mine could come and save me.’(42)

Arril Chhand

(He said to her), ‘You are admirable and so are your mother and father.

‘Your country is commendable and commendable are your sustainers.

‘Your face, which is very pretty, is so meritorious,

‘That, even, the Lotus- flower, Sun, Moon and Cupid lose their

vanity.(43)

‘Your body is blissful and your eyes are coquettish.

‘You are winsome to all, the birds, deer, beasts, reptiles and demons,

‘Shiva and all his four sons have languished by looking at your eyes.

‘But the strange phenomena is that your eyes have not been able to

penetrate into my heart.’(44)

Savaiyya

(She replied,) ‘Cuddling you I will lie down on the bed and will never

divulge this secret to anyone.

‘Frolicking thus, whole night will pass, and, even the Cupids play

will seem trivial.

‘I am living on dreams (about you) and wake up afraid of losing you.

‘I would rather die, than to wake up from such a dream.’(45)

Dohira

Then she declared loudly and told, the Raja.

‘Either I will have sex with you or I will kill myself by taking

poison.’(46) (Raja,) ‘God has created your eyes like sharp arrows,

‘But He has endowed me modesty and that is why they cannot pierce

me.(47)

‘Your eyes are penetrating and on the very first sight they oust the

knowledge.

‘But for me, having no attraction for sex, they are merely like

berries.’(48)

(She) ‘Worthy are those berries whom whole world can see,

‘And the trees, whose fruit people eat and go home satisfied.’(49)

Talking nonsensically, she was becoming impatient to meet her love.

Her each and every limb was demanding, because she was absolutely

stung with the passion.(50)

(61)

Chhand

(Raja) ‘Since the time I realized the sense of maturity, which my Guru

had taught,

“Aye My Son, so long as there is life m your body,

“You promise to enhance love with your own wife,

“But never, even by mistake, bed with else’s wife.(51)

“By relishing else’s wife, Inder, the god was showered with female genitals.

“By relishing else’s wife, Moon was blemished.

“By relishing else’s wife, Ten Headed Raawana lost all his ten heads.

“By relishing else’s wife all the clan of Korav was annihilated.(52)

“The love with else’s wife is like a sharp dagger.

“The love with else’s wife is an invitation to death.

“The one who thinks himself to be very brave and indulges carnally

with else’s wife,

“He is killed in the hands of a coward like a dog.”(53)

“Listen lady! Women come to us from far off lands,

“They bow their heads and wish for boons.

“Those Sikhs (disciples) are like my sons and their wives like my daughters.

“Tell me, now, the pretty one, how could I copulate with them.”(54)

Chaupaee

Listening to all this, she flew into rage and thought,

‘Now I should shout, “thief, thief” and people will come and kill

him.’(55)

Dohira

(She) ‘Why are you getting so angry, jovially have sex with me.

‘My eyes are inviting you, can’t you understand what they are

revealing.’ (Raja) ‘Listen, Carefully Listen, I am not looking at you,

‘Because the looks create the feeling of separation.’(57)

Chhape Chhand

‘Charity is endowed to the priests and the men with base thinking get

scornful looks.

‘Friends are entrained with relief and the enemies get hit on the heads

with sword.

‘No act is performed keeping in view the public opinion.

‘One should not even dream of getting into bed with else’s wife.

‘Since the time Guru has taught me this lesson,

(62)

Any thing belonging to somebody else is like a stone and else’s wife

like a mother to me.’(58)

Dohira

Listening to the Raja’s talk she became angrier,

And shouting, “thief, thief” she awoke all her companions.(59)

Hearing the call of “thief, thief,” the Raja was frightened.

He lost his sanity and, leaving there his shoes and silk robe, ran away.(60)

Twenty-first Parable of Auspicious Chritars

Conversation of the Raja and the Minister,

Completed with Benediction. (21)(439)

[singh2]

I have heard some people claim that the Anoop Kaur tales refer to the personal experiences of dasmesh pita. Has anyne else heard this and what is the truth behind this claim? Where does it stem from? Also can anyone get the original text of these sakhis up? I notice the rajah in the tale worshipped Bhagwani....so I doubt it was dasmesh pita. Who was teh rajah of area in which we are talking at the time of Guru Gobind Singh? Can we identify him or is this tale just a fable/parable?

Chritar Twenty-one

Tale of Anoop Kaur

Dohira

The Monarch caught hold of his son and sent him to the prison, And

in the morning, through the Minister, called him back.(1)

Then he asked the Minster to narrate the Chritars of the wise men and

the women;(2)

On the banks of the river Sutlaj, there was a village by the name of

Anadpur.

It was situated near Naina Devi which situated was in the state of

Kahloor.(3)

There used to come several Sikhs with great pleasure,

And after getting their ambitions fulfilled, they used to go back to

their homes.(4)

The wife of a rich-man came to that town.

She fell for the Raja and was pierced with his love arrows.(5)

She had a servant, Magan Das whom she called,

And gave him some money and made him to understand like this.( 6)

‘You get me to meet the Raja,

‘And after encountering him 1 will give you lot of wealth.’(7)

Becoming greedy for money, Magan came to the Raja,

Fell on his feet and requested thus,(8)

‘The incantation you wanted to learn, has come in my possession.

‘To learn the same you will have to proceed the way I ask.(9)

Bhujang Chhand

The Raja put on the garb of an ascetic, meditating on Bhagwati, the

goddess, commenced his journey.

Walking and walking along, without looking back, reached the

residence of that damsel.(10)

On seeing him the dame adorned herself and ordered for flowers,

beetle leaf and wine.

She came forward herself to receive him and pacified her anxiety.(11)

Dohira

The woman weared the new clothes and put the expensive garments.

And in new form she adorned the decorated bed.(12)

Then the lady asked him, ‘Please have intercourse with me,

(57)

‘Because, tormented by Cupid, I am handing over myself to you.’(I3)

The monarch said ‘I had come to learn incantation,

But the situation is quite contrary (I4)

Arril

The one, who is considered as worship-worthy, should not become

egotistical.

If one becomes a rich man he should not beset the poor.

‘With prettiness one should not display arrogance,

‘Because the youth and beauty are sustainable for four (a few) days

only.(15)

Chhand

‘Righteousness endows auspicious birth and righteousness confers

beauty.

‘The righteousness augments the wealth and holiness and the

righteousness idealises the sovereignty.

‘Why should I abandon righteousness on your instance and make

myself worthy of hell? (l6)

‘Acquiescing to your request, I am not going to copulate with you,

‘Because, in my heart, I am apprehensive of denigrating my family.

‘Deserting behind my married woman (wife), I will never have sex with you.

‘I will never be able to find a place in the court of Lord of

Righteousness.’(l7)

Dohira

(She said,) ‘When a sexually distressed woman comes to a male,

‘And that male who turns her back disappointed, is worthy of hell.’(l8)

(He replied,) ‘People bow on my feet and worship me.

‘And you want me to have sex with you.

Aren’t you ashamed of yourself?’( 19)

(She said,) ‘Krishna was worshipped too, and he had indulged in

love plays.

‘He made love with Radhika, but they never went to hell.(20)

‘With five elements Brahama, the God, created human-beings,

And He, Himself initiated love in men and women.(2l)

Chaupaee

‘Therefore, without hesitation have sex with me,

Because the excitement for the sex overpowers all the parts of my body.

Without an encounter with you, I will burn in the fire of separation.(22)

(58)

Dohira

‘My each limb, seeking copulation, is afflicting me.

‘Why didn’t Ruder, the Great (Shiva) decimated it (sexual desire).’(23)

Chhand

(He) ‘Calm down, Oh Lady, the Cupid will not harm you.

‘You put your thought to Ruder, the Great, (Cupid) will be scared away.

‘Not to abandon my wife, I will never have sex with you.(24)

Arril

‘Just because you say, why should I have sex with you?

‘I am afraid of being put in the hell.

‘To copulate with you is like disowning the righteousness,

And my story will go around the whole world.(25)

‘How would I show my face to the Lord of Righteousness?

‘Lady, you better forsake the thought of my friendship,

‘You have said enough and, now, forget to talk more.’(26)

Anoop Kumari said, ‘If you, my love, have sex with me,

‘You will not be thrown in the hell. Don’t be scared.

‘How could people tattle about you when they are so afraid of you.(27)

Also they would talk only if they learn about the secret.

‘Even if one learns, fearful of you, will keep quiet.

‘You must make up your mind to sleep with me today,

‘Or, alternatively, you crawl through my legs.’(28)

(Raja,) ‘Only that one crawls through the legs who is unable to indulge

in sex,

And remains sitting whole night like a eunuch and does not perform.

‘Being prevailed by the righteousness I will not copulate with you.

‘I am always fearful of the criticism of the public.(29)

(She,) ‘Do whatever you may, but I will never leave you without sex.

‘With my own hands 1 will tear you off,

And, then, get myself sawn through at Kanshi and, would even face

the Lord of Righteousness in his court.(30)

‘Oh my love, I have sworn to bed with you, and

‘Fully satisfy myself carnally.

‘Tonight, through sex I will make you look more handsome,

And will make Cupid to lose his pride too.’(31)

Raja spoke, ‘First of all God has endowed me birth as a Kashatri,

(59)

Our dynasty is very much respected in the world.

Being seated (as Raja) I am worshipped.

‘But, now, if I ravish with you, I will be reborn in a low caste.’(32)

(She said,) ‘What are you talking about the birth? They are your

concoction..

‘If you don’t cherish me, then It will be my bad luck.

‘Without meeting you, I will poison myself.’(33)

Dohira

The Raja was worried, if she imposed the oath of Bhagauti, the

Goddess,

Be will have to ravish her and, then, go to hell.(34)

(She) ‘Get rid of all your doubts, savour me,

‘Because Cupid is over powering me.’(35)

(Be) ‘How-so-ever Cupid may overwhelm, due to the dread of hell,

I will never indulge with you.’(36)

Chhand

(She) ‘You have been bestowed with youth and I am young too.

‘Seeing you I have overcome with passion.

‘Abandon all your misconceptions and relish sex with me,

‘And don’t worry about the fear of the hell.’(37)

Dohira

‘The lady who comes to me to worship me,

‘To me, she is like the daughter of my Guru.’(38)

Chhand

What to talk of love with the women, as they never fulfil,

They desert one man and go after another who is better looking.

For whosoever she makes mind for, she becomes naked before him,

And immediately presents him her unclad urinary place.(39)

Dohira

(She, thinking,) ‘What should 1 do to save myself so that my mind is

appeased?

‘Your utterances depict love, how could I kill you.( 40)

The Raja went into deep thought, ‘I have no disciples of mine with me.

Chaupaee

:By living her my righteousness is destroyed,

But if I try to run away, she will get me caught.(41)

(60)

‘It will be better if I praise her and through dramatisation get rid of

her.

‘Without agreeing to commit sex, she will kill me.

‘I wish some disciple of mine could come and save me.’(42)

Arril Chhand

(He said to her), ‘You are admirable and so are your mother and father.

‘Your country is commendable and commendable are your sustainers.

‘Your face, which is very pretty, is so meritorious,

‘That, even, the Lotus- flower, Sun, Moon and Cupid lose their

vanity.(43)

‘Your body is blissful and your eyes are coquettish.

‘You are winsome to all, the birds, deer, beasts, reptiles and demons,

‘Shiva and all his four sons have languished by looking at your eyes.

‘But the strange phenomena is that your eyes have not been able to

penetrate into my heart.’(44)

Savaiyya

(She replied,) ‘Cuddling you I will lie down on the bed and will never

divulge this secret to anyone.

‘Frolicking thus, whole night will pass, and, even the Cupids play

will seem trivial.

‘I am living on dreams (about you) and wake up afraid of losing you.

‘I would rather die, than to wake up from such a dream.’(45)

Dohira

Then she declared loudly and told, the Raja.

‘Either I will have sex with you or I will kill myself by taking

poison.’(46) (Raja,) ‘God has created your eyes like sharp arrows,

‘But He has endowed me modesty and that is why they cannot pierce

me.(47)

‘Your eyes are penetrating and on the very first sight they oust the

knowledge.

‘But for me, having no attraction for sex, they are merely like

berries.’(48)

(She) ‘Worthy are those berries whom whole world can see,

‘And the trees, whose fruit people eat and go home satisfied.’(49)

Talking nonsensically, she was becoming impatient to meet her love.

Her each and every limb was demanding, because she was absolutely

stung with the passion.(50)

(61)

Chhand

(Raja) ‘Since the time I realized the sense of maturity, which my Guru

had taught,

“Aye My Son, so long as there is life m your body,

“You promise to enhance love with your own wife,

“But never, even by mistake, bed with else’s wife.(51)

“By relishing else’s wife, Inder, the god was showered with female genitals.

“By relishing else’s wife, Moon was blemished.

“By relishing else’s wife, Ten Headed Raawana lost all his ten heads.

“By relishing else’s wife all the clan of Korav was annihilated.(52)

“The love with else’s wife is like a sharp dagger.

“The love with else’s wife is an invitation to death.

“The one who thinks himself to be very brave and indulges carnally

with else’s wife,

“He is killed in the hands of a coward like a dog.”(53)

“Listen lady! Women come to us from far off lands,

“They bow their heads and wish for boons.

“Those Sikhs (disciples) are like my sons and their wives like my daughters.

“Tell me, now, the pretty one, how could I copulate with them.”(54)

Chaupaee

Listening to all this, she flew into rage and thought,

‘Now I should shout, “thief, thief” and people will come and kill

him.’(55)

Dohira

(She) ‘Why are you getting so angry, jovially have sex with me.

‘My eyes are inviting you, can’t you understand what they are

revealing.’ (Raja) ‘Listen, Carefully Listen, I am not looking at you,

‘Because the looks create the feeling of separation.’(57)

Chhape Chhand

‘Charity is endowed to the priests and the men with base thinking get

scornful looks.

‘Friends are entrained with relief and the enemies get hit on the heads

with sword.

‘No act is performed keeping in view the public opinion.

‘One should not even dream of getting into bed with else’s wife.

‘Since the time Guru has taught me this lesson,

(62)

Any thing belonging to somebody else is like a stone and else’s wife

like a mother to me.’(58)

Dohira

Listening to the Raja’s talk she became angrier,

And shouting, “thief, thief” she awoke all her companions.(59)

Hearing the call of “thief, thief,” the Raja was frightened.

He lost his sanity and, leaving there his shoes and silk robe, ran away.(60)

Twenty-first Parable of Auspicious Chritars

Conversation of the Raja and the Minister,

Completed with Benediction. (21)(439)

These charitras have been been discussed here in detail. A full thread was created for chairtras 21,22 and 23 .Still the same question. These charitras do not relate to life of Guru gobind singh ji.

http://www.sikhawareness.com//index.php?sh...11557&st=40

Guru sahib has written in the beginning of Charitropakhayan as given below.

ੴ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਹਿ ॥

ੴ स्री वाहिगुरू जी की फतहि ॥

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਭਗੌਤੀ ਏ ਨਮ ॥

स्री भगौती ए नम ॥

ਅਥ ਪਖ੍ਯਾਨ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਲਿਖ੍ਯਤੇ ॥

Pakhyan charitra itself means that stories that are not true. That itself throws your case out.

Let us go into details further

In charitra 21 line 3 says

ਤੀਰ ਸਤੁਦ੍ਰਵ ਕੇ ਹੁਤੋ ਪੁਰ ਅਨੰਦ ਇਕ ਗਾਉ ॥

There is town of Anand on the banks of river Sutlej

The name given is Anand . The two lines before that Guru sahib writes

ਭੂਪ ਬੰਦ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਨਿਜੁ ਸੁਤਹਿ ਗਹਿ ਕਰਿ ਦਿਯੋ ਪਠਾਇ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਾਤ ਸਮੈ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੀ ਸਹਿਤ ਬਹੁਰੋ ਲਿਯੋ ਬੁਲਾਇ ॥੧॥

ਰੀਝ ਰਾਇ ਐਸੇ ਕਹ੍ਯੋ ਬਚਨ ਮੰਤ੍ਰਿਯਨ ਸੰਗ ॥ ਪੁਰਖ ਤ੍ਰਿਯਨ ਚਤੁਰਨ ਚਰਿਤ ਮੋ ਸੋ ਕਰਹੁ ਪ੍ਰਸੰਗ ॥੨॥

These mean that a minister is telling the stories to his king. This story is

continuing from Charitra 2. Now king says to his minister tell me a story

where a man has played charitra with a woman.

Let us see also charitras 15 and 16 also

It is written in charitra 15

ਰਾਮ ਦਾਸ ਪੁਰ ਛਾਡਿ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਪੁਰ ਆਇ ਕੈ ॥ ਹੋ ਇਕ ਪਗ ਠਾਢੇ ਜਰੀ ਮ੍ਰਿਦੰਗ ਬਜਾਇ ਕੈ ॥੯॥

Line 9 says that Bhanumati left town of Ramdas Pur and came to Kiratpur.

Charitra 16

ਤੀਰ ਸਤੁਦ੍ਰਵ ਕੇ ਹੁਤੋ ਰਹਤ ਰਾਇ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਇ ॥

On the banks of sutlej one king lived happily

Writer again writes about a king living on the banks of sutlej.

This does not mean all these stories are true happenings occurred on the banks of river Sutlej.

This is art of story telling.

2) This charitra is of Rai . Rai means King. Nowhere it says that the charitra is about Guru of sikhs.

Moreover in this charitra word sikh means servant or people.

This is evident from line 59

Word sikhayan( Plural for servant) here is for servants of that lady Anoop kuar

ਚੋਰ ਚੋਰ ਕਹਿ ਕੈ ਉਠੀ ਸਿਖ੍ਯਨ ਦਿਯੋ ਜਗਾਇ ॥੫੯॥

The lady made a shout of thief thief and awakened her servants.

So sikhan is for servants and not for sikhs. Again art of story telling.

3) King used to give blessings to their parja in those days.

5) Rai is not name but means a king.

Base of this story is also written in 8th century literature of Baghdad called Alaf leila.

Similar story wil be found in Saskrit book ' katha sahit sagar" and 13th century persian book

Bustan.

There is a very powerful moral advice in this charitra to khalsa and that is by guru ji.

ਸੁਧਿ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਹਮ ਧਰੀ ਬਚਨ ਗੁਰ ਦਏ ਹਮਾਰੇ ॥

ਪੂਤ ਇਹੈ ਪ੍ਰਨ ਤੋਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਾਨ ਜਬ ਲਗ ਘਟ ਥਾਰੇ ॥

ਨਿਜ ਨਾਰੀ ਕੇ ਸਾਥ ਨੇਹੁ ਤੁਮ ਨਿਤ ਬਢੈਯਹੁ ॥

ਪਰ ਨਾਰੀ ਕੀ ਸੇਜ ਭੂਲਿ ਸੁਪਨੇ ਹੂੰ ਨ ਜੈਯਹੁ ॥੫੧॥

Since when i have come of age

My Guru has advised me that so far there is breath in you

Have love only with your wife

Do not ever Go near some other woman even in dreams

It is strange that so called sikhs of today are ignoring that advice

and misquoting the composition instead.

Edited August 22, 2009 by singh2

[dalsingh101]

Singh2

If you just simply and clearly explained that the Dasam Granth heavily uses metaphor and allegory, it would seriously strengthen your points and probably decrease the amount of online tiffs going on.

Anyway, thanks for the responses. I would really appreciate it if you would give some commentary on the Lou Fenech piece I sent you a few weeks ago. You can do this via PM if you like. What did you think of it?

[singh2]

Singh2

If you just simply and clearly explained that the Dasam Granth heavily uses metaphor and allegory, it would seriously strengthen your points and probably decrease the amount of online tiffs going on.

Anyway, thanks for the responses. I would really appreciate it if you would give some commentary on the Lou Fenech piece I sent you a few weeks ago. You can do this via PM if you like. What did you think of it?

Dasam Granth is a very complex Granth and it is a sin to interpret it literally. One need knowledge of literature also for that.

Persons like Bindra have done maximum damage who have gone for literal translation. His interpretation is faulty especially for hikayats where he says that these are obscene as he has not understood the meanings of metaphors.

I am amazed why are you bringing so called Lou in this thread. has it any relevance here.

[singh2]

If you just simply and clearly explained that the Dasam Granth heavily uses metaphor and allegory, it would seriously strengthen your points and probably decrease the amount of online tiffs going on.

dalsingh ji

We have gone through these points a number of times. And it has been stated that there is abundance of metaphors, myhts and symbolism in Dasam granth. there is a full thread on thesde three charitrs. Sorry if it offended you as my intention was not to offend anyone.

Edited August 22, 2009 by singh2

[dalsingh101]

I am amazed why are you bringing so called Lou in this thread. has it any relevance here.

No it hasn't. I was just interested in what you made of it. If you have the inclination we can start a new thread about it.

[singh2]

dalsingh101

This thread was on these three charitras and you may find it to provide some information.

http://www.sikhawareness.com//index.php?sh...t=0&start=0

[navjot2]

whats so offensive about that story?

this is brilliant stuff

i dont understand the contraversy?