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Kaljug

Shastarvidiya.Org'S Sanatan Bull*&@!

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According to gurbani, avtars of vishnu are avtars of bhagvan, not avtars of "SATAN". As gurbani link this avtarvaad which includes maharaj too beautifully going back to nirgun paratama:

In the Golden Age of Sat Yuga, You were pleased to deceive Baal the king, in the form of a dwarf.

thraethai thai maaniou raam raghuvans kehaaeiou ||

In the Silver Age of Traytaa Yuga, You were called Raam of the Raghu dynasty.

dhuaapur kirasan muraar kans kirathaarathh keeou ||

In the Brass Age of Dwaapur Yuga, You were Krishna; You killed Mur the demon and saved Kans.

ougrasain ko raaj abhai bhagatheh jan dheeou ||

You blessed Ugrasain with a kingdom, and You blessed Your humble devotees with fearlessness.

kalijug pramaan naanak gur angadh amar kehaaeiou ||

In the Iron Age, the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, You are known and accepted as Guru Nanak, Guru Angad and Guru Amar Das.

sree guroo raaj abichal attal aadh purakh furamaaeiou ||7||

The sovereign rule of the Great Guru is unchanging and permanent, according the Command of the Primal Lord God. ||7||

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Anyway as kaljug veer said, we should stick to the topic. If you are interesting, I can split the off-topics into new fruitful discussion on avtars, if you wish?

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Anyway as kaljug veer said, we should stick to the topic. If you are interesting, I can split the off-topics into new fruitful discussion on avtars, if you wish?

In my opinion the purpose of thread is the status of these figures in sikhism. I am quoting gurbani in support of my understanding. In Bachitra natak guru sahib writes that these figures failed to follow God's instructions. If this is not the purpose of thread please let me know?

Edited by singh2

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In my opinion the purpose of thread is the status of these figures in sikhism. I am quoting gurbani in support of my understanding. In Bachitra natak guru sahib writes that these figures failed to follow God's instructions. If this is not the purpose of thread please let me know?

Actually after i think about it, these issues are inter-related with the nature of the topic..so you are right in this matter..we can continue discussing avtarhood on this topic.

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Actually after i think about it, these issues are inter-related with the nature of the topic..so you are right in this matter..we can continue discussing avtarhood on this topic.

Fine.

ਮਹਾਂਦੇਵ ਕੌ ਕਹਤ ਸਦਾ ਸ਼ਿਵ ॥ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਕਾ ਚੀਨਤ ਨਹਿ ਭਿਵ ॥੩੯੨॥

He calls Shiva "The Eternal Lord"[sadashiv], but he does not know the secret of the Formless Lord.392.

Hence Shiva is not equivalent to Akaal (as the website appears to claim) as described in Dasam Granth.

K.

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Fateh!

It looks like this website is headed in the direction of the RSS version of Sikhi. It is a pity, because I actually enjoyed some of the content on the website.

Here Akal is described as any Sikh would underestand the word as a reference to Waheguru:

http://shastarvidiya.org/ideology6.jsp

On another part of the website Akal is regarded as a form of Shiva:

http://shastarvidiya.org/history14.jsp

If you point your mouse on the underlined word Braham Kavach it says "the Akali Nihangs .. see themselves as descendants of the ancient Indian Kshatriyas". The Kshatriyas were a Hindu Brahmin creation to defend their hegemony over other Indians.

Looking at earlier versions of the website on archive.org, there seems to be a definite change from orthodox Nihang views and RSS-inspired myths about "Hindu Sikhs".

What do you think of this? Can any of his students here conform that the whole site is authored by Niddar Singh? If so, what's with the contradictory messages? Some of the later updates seem like they were authored by our very own navjot.

By the way, this is nowt to do with Niddar Singh's shastar vidiya as martial art, this is about the views represented on his website.

K.

I think we should not be so "Hinduphobic". I have been in the past and have missed out on valuable information on Sikh history.

You have to see this in context. The newly formed Sikh groups still used Hindu metaphors to describe concepts (the Guru did to in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji / Dasam Granth).

For someone who does not understand Gravity they will describe it in terms of what they understand eg if they only know Newtons Laws they will use that , and not Relativity.

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Fateh!

I just came across this offering by Nihang Bhai Balbir Singh Hazuri Ragi who, during the Shaheed Baba Deep Singh Divaan, reiterates the point that no Sikh worships the devata Shiva:

Click on Part 1

Regards,

K.

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Guru gobind singh ji on these deities

ਕਹੂੰ ਲੈ ਠੋਕ ਬਧੇ ਉਰ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਮਹੇਸ਼ ਕੌ ਏਸ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਕਹਯੋ ਹਰਿ ਮੰਦਰ ਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਮਸੀਤ ਕੈ ਬੀਚ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨਯੋ ॥

कहूं लै ठोक बधे उर ठाकुर काहूं महेश कौ एस बखानयो ॥ काहूं कहयो हरि मंदर मै हरि काहूं मसीत कै बीच प्रमानयो ॥

Someone has tied the stone-idol around his neck and someone has accepted Shiva as the Lord; someone considers the Lord within the temple or the mosque;

ਕਾਹੂੰ ਨੇ ਰਾਮ ਕਹਯੋ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨਾ ਕਹੁ ਕਾਹੂੰ ਮਨੈ ਅਵਤਾਰਨ ਮਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਬਿਸਾਰ ਸਭੈ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਹੀ ਕਉ ਕਰਤਾ ਜੀਅ ਜਾਨਯੋ ॥੧੨॥

काहूं ने राम कहयो क्रिशना कहु काहूं मनै अवतारन मानयो ॥ फोकट धरम बिसार सभै करतार ही कउ करता जीअ जानयो ॥१२॥

Someone calls him Ram or Krishna and someone believes in His incarnations, but my mind has forsaken all useless actions and has accepted only the One Creator.12.

ਕਾਹੇ ਕੋ ਏਸ਼ ਮਹੇਸ਼ਹਿ ਭਾਖਤ ਕਾਹਿ ਦਿਜੇਸ਼ ਕੋ ਏਸ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਹੈ ਨ ਰਘ੍ਵੇਸ਼ ਜਦ੍ਵੇਸ਼ ਰਮਾਪਤਿ ਤੈ ਜਿਨ ਕੌ ਬਿਸ੍ਵਨਾਥ ਪਛਾਨਯੋ ॥

काहे को एश महेशहि भाखत काहि दिजेश को एस बखानयो ॥ है न रघ्वेश जद्वेश रमापति तै जिन कौ बिस्वनाथ पछानयो ॥

Why do you consider Shiva or Brahma as the Lord ? There is none amongst Ram, Krishna and Vishnu, who may be considered as the Lord of the Universe by you;

ਏਕ ਕੋ ਛਾਡਿ ਅਨੇਕ ਭਜੈ ਸੁਕਦੇਵ ਪਰਾਸਰ ਬਯਾਸ ਝੁਠਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਸਜੇ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਕੌ ਬਿਧ ਨੈਕ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨਯੋ ॥੧੫॥

एक को छाडि अनेक भजै सुकदेव परासर बयास झुठानयो ॥ फोकट धरम सजे सभ ही हम एक ही कौ बिध नैक प्रमानयो ॥१५॥

Relinquishing the One Lord, you remember many gods and goddesses; in this way you prove Shukdev, Prashar,Vyas as liars; all the so-called religions are hollow; I only accept the One Lord as the Providence.15.

ਕੋਊ ਦਿਜੇਸ਼ ਕੋ ਮਾਨਤ ਹੈ ਅਰੁ ਕੋਊ ਮਹੇਸ਼ ਕੋ ਏਸ਼ ਬਤੈ ਹੈ ॥ ਕੋਊ ਕਹੈ ਬਿਸ਼ਨੋ ਬਿਸ਼ਨਾਇਕ ਜਾਹਿ ਭਜੇ ਅਘ ਓਘ ਕਟੈ ਹੈ ॥

कोऊ दिजेश को मानत है अरु कोऊ महेश को एश बतै है ॥ कोऊ कहै बिशनो बिशनाइक जाहि भजे अघ ओघ कटै है ॥

Someone tells Brahma as the Lord-God and someone tells the same thing about Shiva; someone considers Vishnu as the hero of the universe and says that only on remembering him, all the sins will be destroyed;

ਬਾਰ ਹਜ਼ਾਰ ਬਿਚਾਰ ਅਰੇ ਜੜ ਅੰਤ ਸਮੈ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਤਜਿ ਜੈ ਹੈ ॥ ਤਾਹੀ ਕੋ ਧਯਾਨ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨਿ ਹੀਏ ਜੋਊ ਥੇ ਅਬ ਹੈ ਅਰੁ ਆਗੈ ਊ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਹੈ ॥੧੬॥

बार हज़ार बिचार अरे जड़ अंत समै सभ ही तजि जै है ॥ ताही को धयान प्रमानि हीए जोऊ थे अब है अरु आगै ऊ ह्वै है ॥१६॥

O fool ! think about it a thousand times, all of them will leave you at the time of death, therefore, you should only meditate on Him, who is there in the present and who will also be there in future.16.

33 swaiyes

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ek siv bhae ek gae ek fer bhae raamchandr krisan ke avtar bhee anek hai

mai na gneseh prithham manaaoo kisan bisan kabhhoo neh dhiyaaoo

kaan sune pehchaan na tin so liv laagi mori pag in so

mahakaal rakhvaar hamara maha loh mai kinkar thhaaraa

raam rahim puran quran anek kahai mat ek na manyo

time and again and again and again maharaj tell us to so pooja of, devote our consciousness solely towards te One. waheguru, akaal, mahakaal, mahaloh, etc. the ONE.

pata nehi kithho bevkoof eho jehe get the idea its ok to do pooja of devte, and then attach Buddha Dal's name to it all, major daag/stain not only on the Dal Panth, but the entire Sikh nation as a whole

our devte are the Khalsa, true gurmukhs whose charandhoor devi-devte thirst for, and our devis are our shastar

aatam ras jeh janiai so hai khals dev

prabh mai moh mai taas mai ranchak nahi bhev

one who knows true aatmic ras is a pure deity, Khalsa-deity

in god, myself (guru sahib) and them (khalsa, those who recognize aatam-ras) there is not even the slightest difference

maharaj has blessed us with that^. more than devta status, they've blessed us with unification with the Divine. baaki devi devtiyaa di pooja karke ladoo laine aa?

i don't mean to slander the devte in any way. no doubt they are mahaan beings, but simply not poojan jog for sikhs

pooja akaal ki

parcha shabad da

didar khalse da

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