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Implementation of detailed rules to prevent insults against other religions????


Kaljug

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Fine that you've been using jihadwatch and faithfreedom etc but have you actually taken the time to go asks local muslims at the mosque about these incidents to hear their version of the story? There is a saying going "If you see a conflict from just one side or the other - you will be blind from the truth"

Both Jihadwatch and Faithfreedom use the original sources which by their very nature are the Muslims' side of the story. As Kalyug said, there is no other side of the story. This is because the Christian and Jewish population of Arabia were either massacred, forced to flee or forcibly converted. Robert Spencer has written a number of books on Islam and I would suggest you read them before criticising the site as biased. The same goes for Faithfreedom, you might wish to read some of the debates between Muslims and non-Muslims there on various aspects of Islam and in the vast majority of debates the Muslims end up being mauled. These Muslims then do the normal Islamic tactic of running off to Islamic sites claiming to have beaten Ali Sina or some other figure from the site.

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"Herein lies the problem. You, and the rest of the Sikhs here who see life through rose-tinted spectacles, are convinced that the interpretation of a handful of Sufis is somehow more correct than the rest of the Islamic world who do not feel the need to resort to kitman and taquiyyah to spread their doctrines."

I see Sufism as an offshoot of Sanatana Dharma and not anything like fundamentalist Islam, so I have no problem with them. Sufism is the continuation of Sant Mat in those communities of Hindus who were forcibly converted by the Moghuls, and a large body of brilliant Kaula tantra Shaivite mysticism exists in it's symbolism. Sufis are the sons and daughters of people like Bhai Mardana, and often had Shaiva and Vaishnavite Gurus and became their own lineage. Of course there are deluded and abusive people in every religious sect. But I accept Sufism as related to Sanatana Dharma and generally more open minded.

LataifChakrasHeartSufi.gif

Sufi Enneagram is related to the gupt teachings of the chakrs and the yogic methods for opening them.

Sufi Dhikkr is very similar to pranayam Naam Simran, and certain Sufi sects have bhakti trance practices where they become wajd very similar to Namdharis. The relationship is due to the historical intermingling of communities during the Mughal invasions. Unlike traditional Muslims, Sufi's are actually very mystical and yogic in orientation. for that they are persecuted by traditionalist Muslims. During the times of the Guru Sahibaan, people would go into samadhi and mastana states due to the power of the Raag Kirtan and Naam Simran.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIns9cbvsUc

"The earliest recorded history of Kashmir by Kalhan begins at the time of the Mahabharata war. In the 3rd century BC, emperor Ashoka introduced Buddhism in the valley. Kashmir became a major hub of Hindu culture by the 9th century AD. It was the birthplace of the Hindu sect called Kashmiri 'Shaivism', and a haven for the greatest Sanskrit scholars...

...suffered a reversal during the Muslim rule of Kashmir beginning from the 14th centuryAD. It continued for the next 500 years, during which successive Muslim rulers of Kashmir indulged in wanton destruction of Hindu temples, cruel suppression of Hinduism and massacre of Hindus. During this period of aggressive Islamic intolerance, the growing influence of Sufism was the only ray of hope for the Hindus.

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"Sufism is the continuation of Sant Mat in those communities of Hindus who were forcibly converted by the Moghuls, and a large body of brilliant Kaula tantra Shaivite mysticism exists in it's symbolism. Sufis are the sons and daughters of people like Bhai Mardana, and often had Shaiva and Vaishnavite Gurus and became their own lineage. Of course there are deluded and abusive people in every religious sect. But I accept Sufism as related to Sanatana Dharma and generally more open minded."

Bhenji, Sufism has been around for a lot longer than Bhai Mardana, read up on Al-Qushayri and his numerous works - specifically Lata'if Al-Isharat bi Tafsir Al-Qur'an, the famous Al-Risala Al-Qushayriyya and Sharh Asma' Allah al-Husna, which take an esoteric look at Allahs narhinnven naam. I have looked at sections of these texts, they are amazing.

Although I agree, the Indian interaction/fusion created beautiful enhancements to the Sufi schools, they were by no means 'created' in India. The Raag tradition as per Gurbani is perfect example of the Indic/Islamic mix in divine music.

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Most will either deny them, change the subject, or give the usual reply of "Mohammed was the perfect human being". In any case, what other side is there to the story of the rape of women of the Bani Quraysh tribe and the execution of the males of the tribe? They are not exactly around to relate thei version of events. Yet this incident is recorded in the Hadith as if there was nothing wrong with what was done.

So does that mean you have tried to approach muslims and ask for their version and interpretation (weak or strong hadith etc) of these events or are you just asuming that they will react they way you have described above?

Edited by amardeep
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I see Sufism as an offshoot of Sanatana Dharma and not anything like fundamentalist Islam, so I have no problem with them. Sufism is the continuation of Sant Mat in those communities of Hindus who were forcibly converted by the Moghuls, and a large body of brilliant Kaula tantra Shaivite mysticism exists in it's symbolism. Sufis are the sons and daughters of people like Bhai Mardana, and often had Shaiva and Vaishnavite Gurus and became their own lineage. Of course there are deluded and abusive people in every religious sect. But I accept Sufism as related to Sanatana Dharma and generally more open minded.

You removed Khalsa from your name and became a Shakta now?

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You removed Khalsa from your name and became a Shakta now?

No, actually Khalsa is still legally my name. I haven't used Khalsa on forums for awhile because it tends to pit Khalsas versus Sehajdharis and I don't promote that kind of conflict. Everyone is a child of God and we should do our best to encourage people to get close to the Divine in the best way we can without putting ourselves up on a pedestal looking down at them.

How do you know I am a Shakta?

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I see Sufism as an offshoot of Sanatana Dharma and not anything like fundamentalist Islam, so I have no problem with them. Sufism is the continuation of Sant Mat in those communities of Hindus who were.....

Oh please, Bhenji don't even go there.

Just waiting for 'Mecca is an old Mandir', 'Sanatan dharm invented flushing loos', ' NASA stole sanatan technology'.....

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Matheen, I have already shown Bhenji some of the earliest (pre-India domination) literary sources concerning Sufism.

buddha-afghanistan.jpg

How old is this? It's older than Islam by a couple thousand years. Kashmiri Shaivism and Tantric Buddhism are related mystical schools which were predominant in the region for generations before there was a Mohammed.

kaaba-3-high.jpg

Inside this container which looks to an average Hindu to be a yoni, are pieces of black stone from the Kaaba.

MohammedSetsKaaba.jpg

Here is Mohamed with what clearly appears to the average Hindu to be a black linga. Can you accept that non-Muslims will not necesarily share a Muslim interpretation of Muslim beliefs? When I see Kaaba, I see Shiva linga. To a religious Muslim, he will not see that. I can accept that a Muslim doesn't accept that. But it doesn't change my belief. And I mean no disrespect to Islam or Islam's prophet Mohamed to share my belief. from a Hindu viewpoint, a linga is sacred and contains energies of the God.

Kaaba was ancient even in Mohammed's time.

It's absurd to believe a religion thousands of years old had no influence on independent new religious movements. Everybody want's to be unique. But language isn't even unique. Linguists can trace root words that connect across the globe. Why is this? because human societies migrated from one original source and can trace back to an original Mother Tongue.

The original Mother Tongue of religions is called Sanatana Dharma.

Is Islam different and unique? Without question. But is it completely free of any earlier associations or influences? Not even possible. Is it unique? Yes. Is it entirely independent? No way.

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Ms Harjas Kaur The Kaaba does not contain a Shiv Linga. The black cube represents the old Arabic God Hubal. Hubal can be equated to the being known as Saturn. The black cube is symbolic of Saturn. Saturn was widely worshipped in ancient days, he had an interesting relationship to Kingship, in Jyotish Shani or Saturn is associated with violet or purple a royal colour. Anyways we cannot just go around calling things what we please to fit them in with our own belief system and then justify distortions of truth by saying that each person is allowed an opinion on reality. There are such things as facts. I am sure Shankar Bhagwan would not appreciate you attaching his auspiscious name to symbols that do not belong to him. Although Shani has a dear relationship with Shiva the Linga is a symbol exclusively of Mahesh and not everything that looks like a linga is not allowed to be one.

Edited by Mekhane'ch Jannat
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The arabs who are mostly muslim have done away with their pagan past so it is hard to verify what their ancestors believed in. If the europeans weren't so sure of the history of their roman/greek/celtic/slavic pagan faiths, the hindoos would probably say the whites used to be hindus before christianity showed up.

Edited by HSD
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Someone who reduces everything to lings and yonis has issues.

The stone is not a lingam and it's cover is not a yoni. At least do some research.

Also, the Chand you depicted several posts ago represents the Khalsa - it is comprised of a Tegh and Degh.

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Anyways we cannot just go around calling things what we please to fit them in with our own belief system and then justify distortions of truth by saying that each person is allowed an opinion on reality. There are such things as facts. I am sure Shankar Bhagwan would not appreciate you attaching his auspiscious name to symbols that do not belong to him. Although Shani has a dear relationship with Shiva the Linga is a symbol exclusively of Mahesh and not everything that looks like a linga is not allowed to be one.

It is a linga preserved in a yoni, anyone can clearly see that. Why were pre-Islamic Arabians worshiping Shani? Because King Ashoka conquered a region all the way up to the Arabian peninsula which is why there are Buddha statues in Afghanistan and some few remnants of sanatan religious practices in Arabia, Iran, and Pakistan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1O6Om-5ark

"The first modern edition of Sayar-ul-Okul was printed and published in Berlin in 1864. A subsequent edition is the one published in Beirut in 1932. The collection is regarded as the most important and authoritative anthology of ancient Arabic poetry. It throws considerable light on the social life, customs, manners and entertainment modes of ancient Arabia.

But the OKAJ fair was far from a carnival. It provided a forum for the elite and the learned to discuss the social, religious, political, literary and other aspects of the Vedic culture then pervading Arabia. Sayar-ul-Okul asserts that the conclusion reached at those discussions were widely respected throughout Arabia.

Mecca, therefore, followed the Varanasi tradition (of India) of providing a venue for important discussions among the learned while the masses congregated there for spiritual bliss. The principal shrines at both Varanasi in India and at Mecca in Arvasthan (Arabia) were Siva temples. Even to this day ancient Mahadev (Siva) emblems can be seen. It is the Shankara (Siva) stone that Muslim pilgrims reverently touch and kiss in the Kaaba.

Arabic tradition has lost trace of the founding of the Kaaba temple. The discovery of the Vikramaditya inscription affords a clue. King Vikramaditya is known for his great devotion to Lord Mahadev (Siva). At Ujjain (India), the capital of Vikramaditya, exists the famous shrine of Mahankal, i.e., of Lord Shankara (Siva) associated with Vikramaditya. Since according to the Vikramaditya inscription he spread the Vedic religion, who else but he could have founded the Kaaba temple in Mecca?" Prince Goutham

A reference to king Vikramaditya comes in inscription found in the Kaaba in Mecca [1] proving beyond doubt that the Arabian Peninsula formed a part of his Empire.

The text of the crucial Vikramaditya inscription, found inscribed on a gold dish hung inside the Kaaba shrine in Mecca, is found recorded in a volume known as Sayar-ul-Okul (meaning, memorable words) treasured in the Makhtab-e-Sultania library in Istanbul, Turkey.

Following are the Arabic wording of the inscription reproduced in Roman script:

"...Itrashaphai Santu Ibikramatul Phahalameen Karimun Yartapheeha Wayosassaru Bihillahaya Samaini Ela Motakabberen Sihillaha Yuhee Quid min howa Yapakhara phajjal asari nahone osirom bayjayhalem. Yundan blabin Kajan blnaya khtoryaha sadunya kanateph netephi bejehalin Atadari bilamasa- rateen phakef tasabuhu kaunnieja majekaralhada walador. As hmiman burukankad toluho watastaru hihila Yakajibaymana balay kulk amarena phaneya jaunabilamary Bikramatum..." (Sayar-ul-okul, pg. 315).

Rendered in free English the inscription reads as follows:

"...Fortunate are those who were born (and lived) during king [Vikramaditya’s] reign. He was a noble, generous dutiful ruler, devoted to the welfare of his subjects. But at that time we Arabs, oblivious of God, were lost in sensual pleasures. Plotting and torture were rampant. The darkness of ignorance had enveloped our country. Like the lamb struggling for her life in the cruel paws of a wolf we Arabs were caught up in ignorance. The entire country was enveloped in a darkness so intense as on a new moon night. But the present dawn and pleasant sunshine of education is the result of the favour of the noble king Vikramaditya whose benevolent supervision did not lose sight of us - foreigners as we were. He spread his sacred religion amongst us and sent scholars whose brilliance shone like that of the sun from his country to ours. These scholars and preceptors through whose benevolence we were once again made cognisant of the presence of God, introduced to His sacred existence and put on the road of Truth, had come to our country to preach their religion and impart education at king Vikramaditya’s behest..."Vikramaditya inscription in the Kaaba in Mecca

"As the pilgrim proceeds towards Mecca he is asked to shave his head and beard and to don special sacred attire that consists of two seamless sheets of white cloth. One is to be worn round the waist and the other over the shoulders. Both these rites are remnants of the old Vedic practice of entering Hindu temples clean- and with holy seamless white sheets. The main shrine in Mecca, which houses the Siva emblem, is known as the Kaaba. It is clothed in a black shroud. That custom also originates from the days when it was thought necessary to discourage its recapture by camouflaging it. According to the Encyclopaedia Britannica, the Kaaba has 360 images. Traditional accounts mention that one of the deities among the 360 destroyed when the place was stormed, was that of Saturn; another was of the Moon and yet another was one called Allah. That shows that in the Kaaba the Arabs worshipped the nine planets in pre-Islamic days. In India the practice of ‘Navagraha’ puja, that is worship of the nine planets, is still in vogue. Two of these nine are Saturn and Moon. In India the crescent moon is always painted across the forehead of the Siva symbol. Since that symbol was associated with the Siva emblem in Kaaba it came to be grafted on the flag of Islam!!! And on Turkey's and Pakistan's and Malaysia's and Uzbekistan's closely resembles...

Since the Kaaba has been an important centre of Shiva (Siva) worship from times immemorial, the Shivaratri festival used to be celebrated there with great gusto. It is that festival which is signified by the Islamic word Shabibarat. Encyclopaedias tell us that there are inscriptions on the side of the Kaaba walls. What they are, no body has been allowed to study, according to the correspondence I had with an American scholar of Arabic. But according to hearsay at least some of those inscriptions are in Sanskrit, and some of them are stanzas from the Bhagavad Gita. "Mystery Behind the Symbol of the Goddess in Islam

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"were pre-Islamic Arabians worshiping Shani"

Do you believe shani to be different from Saturn. Has 'Sanatana Dharma' a monopoly over the planets. There are similarities in symbolism throughout the world, the linga yoni expressing male and female energies, is shown differently in different cultures. This points to uniform 'laws' that work in the minds of humans that create symbols. The symbols being clothed differently according to culture. In seeing some resembelances between vedism and arabic paganism, it is idiocy to jump to the conclusion that the vedic culture influenced everything under the sun. A thinking person will take it a step further and consider that humans generate common ideas throughout the world because of an inherent tendency of mind. It is weakness of mind to use vedism as a crutch to explain everything, and your posts that started off acceptable are now becoming absurd, i think any credibility you had is gone when you come out with tha kaaba is a shiv linga. Type in black cube and saturn in google you will see many cultures represented Saturn as a black cube.

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"Also, the Chand you depicted several posts ago represents the Khalsa - it is comprised of a Tegh and Degh."

The logo or symbol of 'Aad Chand' is basically 'Ardh Chandra' (Half Moon). The Sanskrit word 'Ardh' (Half) is written 'Addh' in Punjabi. The term 'Addh' is transformed into 'Aad'. The Sanskrit word 'Chandra' (Moon) becomes 'Chand' in Punjabi. Thus, 'Aad Chand' is nothing but 'Ardh Chandra'.

For thousands of years, the symbol of 'Ardh Chandra' existed in Hindu religion. For example, please the image below: -

A picture of Natraj's statue, which is hundreds years old, even before the birth of Sikhism.

Please compare this image to Nihangs' 'Aad Chand' and draw your own conclusion.

natraj.jpg

Amrit Cares

Mad%20Eyes%20intro.jpg

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It's a sword shaped like a complete linga penetrating a Chand, moon, not a tegh, kettle. It forms a trishula which according to Shaiva Sutras represents the Ida, Pingala and Shushmana nadis, central to achieving mukti. And it is worn at the Agni chakr/3rd eye.

trishul3.gif

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The King Vikramditya inscription in the Kaa'ba is the give away. Can you erase that and pretend there was no Vedic influence?

There is no such inscription! Vikramditya is not mentioned at all. You're just making yourself look foolish now, do you actually believe what you write?

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pic3,0.jpg

sacredthread-2.gif

Clear Vedic influence.

"As the pilgrim proceeds towards Mecca, he is asked to shave his head and beard

and to don special sacred attire that consists of two seamless sheets of white cloth.

One is to be worn round the waist and the other over the shoulders.

Both these rites are remnants of the old Vedic practice of entering Hindu temples clean-

and with holy seamless white sheets."

Muhammad-black-stone-kaaba.jpg

shivalinga.jpg

The Kaaba an ancient Hindu temple dedicated to King Vikramditya who worshiped Shiva. End of story.

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"The text of the crucial Vikramaditya inscription, found inscribed on a gold dish hung inside the Kaaba shrine in Mecca, is found recorded on page 315 of a volume known as ‘Sayar-ul-Okul’ treasured in the Makhtab-e-Sultania library in Istanbul, Turkey. Rendered in free English the inscription says:

"Fortunate are those who were born (and lived) during king Vikram’s reign...

That the ancient Indian empires may have extended up to the eastern boundaries of Arabia until Vikramaditya and that it was he who for the first time conquered Arabia. Because the inscription says that king Vikram who dispelled the darkness of ignorance from Arabia.

1. That, whatever their earlier faith, King Vikrama’s preachers had succeeded in spreading the Vedic (based on the Vedas, the Hindu sacred scriptures)) way of life in Arabia.

Was the Kaaba Originally a Hindu Temple?

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