Mithar Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 (edited) If it didn't happen then why didn't Bhai Vir Singh etc protest against Gyani Gyan Singh putting allegations on them? If something put allegations on me which aren't true I would surely issue some statement or whatever, but there is no proof that Bhai Vir Singh did it. Show us proof. Bhai Vir Singh Jee is a respected man, no defence is needed for him. You and I are mere insects compared to him. I am well aware of Niddarite propaganda and their baseless finger pointing towards great GurSikhs of the past. Edited January 18, 2010 by Mithar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuptSingh1699 Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 No defense because he couldn't defend himself, even if it was true. Read the sources already mentioned in this topic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted January 22, 2010 Report Share Posted January 22, 2010 (edited) No defense because he couldn't defend himself, even if it was true. Read the sources already mentioned in this topic. Saanu Saboot chaheedhaa hai, Niddarite propaganda are not good enough. Edited January 22, 2010 by Mithar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvalasingh Posted February 11, 2010 Report Share Posted February 11, 2010 back to the topic, i am hopefully going to be able to get my hands on an unedditted version of Pracheen Panth Prakash. This is the version by Balwant Singh Dhillon. He has compared the old hand written manuscripts and has complied, what he hopes, to be an original of Panth Prakash without the eddittings of Bhai Vir Singh. Once I go through it and examine it i will post my thoughts 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted February 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 (edited) back to the topic, i am hopefully going to be able to get my hands on an unedditted version of Pracheen Panth Prakash. This is the version by Balwant Singh Dhillon. He has compared the old hand written manuscripts and has complied, what he hopes, to be an original of Panth Prakash without the eddittings of Bhai Vir Singh. Once I go through it and examine it i will post my thoughts I look forward to that brother, although I imagine at least a significant portion of any editting would have been covered by the article attached to this thread. I think you should use the word 'reconstructed' to refer to the work by Balwant Singh, rather than 'unedited' anyway. It will be more accurate. You do know that there is a manuscript of Panth Prakash available at Panjab Digital Library as well don't you? I posted a link to it earlier in the thread. It isn't dated but seems to be quite old? Edited February 12, 2010 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satgyan-pujari Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Firstly there can never be any justification in deleting/changing historical texts,any different viewpoint should only be put in footnotes and backed up with evidence if available.It is not in the Panthic benefit to have texts changed by modern sikhs/singh sabha or british,to view from a biased viewpoint.If the sanatan/camp where to use these tactics modernist/singh sabha would be in uproar crying foulplay.there is no reason or honesty in blatant deletion and additions according to personal viewpoint. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 This topic is re-opened now. Please follow the rules and stick to the topic. Any off-topics will be deleted without notice regardless how long post might be or how long time spent on it. So think twice and make a back up of your post in your computer before going writing off-topic post. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tejikaur Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 gurfateh g first of all cursed are the hands and the mind who have thought and written such apavitar thoughts about Sant Kavi Bhai VIr Singh. u r lucvky he was such an amazing gurmukh who is above nindak that being said gurbani must be the test for what is gurmat panth parkash is not gurbani yes it is valuable for some information but at every historian knows each text must be looked at for credibility in light of other texts and history now bhai biddhi chand was a great gurmukh would u ever believe he stole women's earing for fun?????????????????? kavi santokh singh ji was amazing beyond amazing and i love sooraj parkash granth but there are things written against the philosiphy of guru granth sahib and of dasam granth bani and vaara bhai gurdas ji in my eyes these three are our first sources,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, the seva of editing done by bhai vir singh ji was crucial and only time will show the extent of how bhai sahib ji saved sikh sidhant at a time when all of india was converting to christianity 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Kee Fateh Here is an article on Bhai Vir Singh's editing of Bhangu's Panth Prakash. If any of the sangat is up for translating this, let me know. Maybe we can form an online team to do this? how is this translation going bhaji? And is Kulwant Singhs work helping at all? Found a manuscript copy digitised by PDL, doesn't have a date unfortunately:http://www.panjabdigilib.org/webuser/searches/displayPageContent.jsp?ID=2168&page=5&CategoryID=3&Searched=panth+prakash Can you get someone to look at the scribble at the top, which actually looks like urdu/persian to me? it might give you some clues. back to the topic, i am hopefully going to be able to get my hands on an unedditted version of Pracheen Panth Prakash. This is the version by Balwant Singh Dhillon. He has compared the old hand written manuscripts and has complied, what he hopes, to be an original of Panth Prakash without the eddittings of Bhai Vir Singh. Once I go through it and examine it i will post my thoughts ok Jvala singh, 3 years on, how is it going? Edited March 25, 2013 by chatanga1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 gurfateh g first of all cursed are the hands and the mind who have thought and written such apavitar thoughts about Sant Kavi Bhai VIr Singh. u r lucvky he was such an amazing gurmukh who is above nindak that being said gurbani must be the test for what is gurmat panth parkash is not gurbani yes it is valuable for some information but at every historian knows each text must be looked at for credibility in light of other texts and history now bhai biddhi chand was a great gurmukh would u ever believe he stole women's earing for fun?????????????????? kavi santokh singh ji was amazing beyond amazing and i love sooraj parkash granth but there are things written against the philosiphy of guru granth sahib and of dasam granth bani and vaara bhai gurdas ji in my eyes these three are our first sources,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, the seva of editing done by bhai vir singh ji was crucial and only time will show the extent of how bhai sahib ji saved sikh sidhant at a time when all of india was converting to christianity Hiya bhenji! I don't think the original article slandered BVS. I think it is very relevant and proper to (respectfully) critically evaluate our past, especially our literature. Truth is that BVS was operating under the shadow of colonialism and the introduction to non-native ideas, values into the Sikh world as a consequence of being subjugated by the British. We have to make efforts to understand this and its implications to our society. I value BVS work but I don't believe it is the final word. Only Gurbani is. how is this translation going bhaji? And is Kulwant Singhs work helping at all? Chatanga veer. So busy right now. This is another translation project that was never fully completed (like our lassi and cha one!). Truth is that when I started this one I had only just started dipping into the Panjabi/Gurmukhi language (has it been 3+ years already!!!!) and didn't know much (not that I know that much more now). I've borrowed Dhillon's version but haven't read much of it yet. When I did look through I couldn't find mention of the havan mentioned in the OP. I couldn't find it in Kulwant Singh's version either (but his is closer to BVS's version anyway). Been awhile since I looked at them. Can't remember much. I noticed Bhangu (amusingly) uses the Panjabi insult gandoo (ar5eh**e) a few times in the work for people! lol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 where did you get dhillon's version from? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amarjeet Singh_1737 Posted April 4, 2013 Report Share Posted April 4, 2013 Dalsingh, the term is Sundeh, which means an ox, a portion which is missed out of Bhai Vir Singhs Panth Parkash and the Panth Parkash of Baba Santa Singh is the Havan which the khalsa did prior to the battle with Ahmed Shah Abdali. Baba Santa Singh accepted that this did happen, however for some reason it isnt included within their steek. The same is said on Gyani Gian Singh's Panth Prakash. Yet some eminent personalities, like Baba Jagjeet Singh Harkhowal Wale, hold it to be a havan of the mind. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted April 6, 2013 Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 Do you feel that Baba Santa Singh Ji may personally have felt havan as mentioned by Bhangu to be an adulteration of faith? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tSingh Posted April 6, 2013 Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 (edited) Just passing through and happened to notice this topic which got me thinking... I've been looking to check a quote from Sikhan Da Bhagatmaal by Bhai Mani Singh Shahid. The one I recently found didn't match. Where my original reference states '...aradhana kita si, jo veda da tatparya ati guhya hai asi pai nahi sakade. jo tusi kirpa kar ke...' the text I was looking at reads 'aradhana kita si, jo tusi kirpa kar ke...' Confusing. Then I looked at the publisher of the second source 'Khalsa Samachar Amritsar (1950)'. Its another 'critical' edition by the great man himself! So I checked a more recent edition by Dr. Harnam Singh Shan, and low and behold the original is there '...aradhana kita si, jo veda da tatparya ati guhya hai asi pai nahi sakade. jo tusi kirpa kar ke...' Clearly Bhai Sahib Ji didn't want us exposed to such claims by Bhai Mani Singh Ji Shahid! I won't be looking at that 1950 edition again. Interesting topic. Keep up the good work. See you in a couple of years! Edited April 6, 2013 by tSingh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted April 6, 2013 Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 Welcome back tsingh...so good to see you again..I hope you pass through these topics as well..they are desperately need your attention too bro http://www.sikhawareness.com/index.php/topic/14813-gurmat-relations-towards-advait-marg-bhakti-marg/ http://www.sikhawareness.com/index.php/topic/14336-did-baba-deep-singh-ji-do-havan/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted April 7, 2013 Report Share Posted April 7, 2013 thanks for sharing that tsingh, although you wont read this for a couple of years. can anyone translate the line into english or share the original gurmukhi with us? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tSingh Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 The sakhi is about the issue of Sri Guru Nanak Dev and Raja Janak. Sri Guru Arjan Dev states that Shiva, Brahma, the four maharishis, Sanak, Sanandan, Sanatan and Sanat Kumar, Raja Janak and others were praising Sri Guru Nanak Dev in satyug and put to him that the secret essential purport of the Vedas eluded them. They requested him to take avatar in kalyug to put the essential purport (tatparya) of the Vedas into colloquial language. Later it describes Gurbani as a delineation (tat nirnay) of the supreme truth contained in the Vedas. Perhaps not so surprisingly, both statements are missing from Bhai Vir Singh Ji's edit. Its an interesting sakhi not just for its view about the relationship between the Vedas and Gurbani but also concerning the identity of Guru Maharaj. (less than two years for a reply is pretty good going I reckon) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted April 24, 2013 Report Share Posted April 24, 2013 it is bhaji, thanks. i knew you were busy, but im glad you've taken time to post that. Is Bhai Mani Singh's version still available to buy? And is anyone working on an english version? Tsingh Ji, could Bhai Mani Singh's version have been altered at all? It would be great if we could get a group together to look at some of the smaller texts to begin with and look at an english translation which would help so many people. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 http://www.4shared.com/folder/-uUOeoOl/_online.html If anyone wishes to download Baba Santa Singh's katha of Panth Parkash, they will find it on the above link. I have started to listen to the katha and comparing it with Kulwant Singh's book, both on the gurmukhi and english translation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted July 16, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2022 bump 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GurjantGnostic Posted July 22, 2022 Report Share Posted July 22, 2022 On 11/27/2009 at 11:47 PM, dalsingh101 said: Â Â Panth Prakash seems to disagree with a lot of the accepted accounts of Sikh history Silence. Did it disagree or did it say they would be sacrificed for Chandi and they ultimately were? Sacrificed fighting evil, which is her purpose? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted July 22, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2022 51 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said: Did it disagree or did it say they would be sacrificed for Chandi and they ultimately were? Sacrificed fighting evil, which is her purpose? I think a lot of these things stem from metaphoric or coded representations, which some people later might have took more literally than intended?  I think there is a lot of that going on in Dasam Granth too. I think literalism can easily skew understanding. That's my personal opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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