Dasam Granth?

[Mithar]

Ironically, the host and Harmanjit sit in front giant posters of Sant Jarnail Singh Ji and Bhai Sukhdev Singh BHai Harjinder Singh. The very personalities they adorn their walls with would have given them a sound thrashing for opposing Dasam Patshah's Bani. I guess the Panth didn't have any learned Gursikhs for the past 300 years and only now these mahaan vidhvaans have shown us the truth of Dasam Granth.

If that is not a great HUGE contradiction then I don't know what is. First these Kala Afghanists would try to hide behind great Singh Sabhiyas like Prof Gurmukh Singh, Giani Ditt Singh, Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha, Prof Sahib Singh, all of them were believers in Dasam Granth. Now it is Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawala, Sukha Jinda. They need to hang pictures of Kala Afghana, Jeowala, Ragi DArshan,

[The Khalsa Fauj]

If that is not a great HUGE contradiction then I don't know what is. First these Kala Afghanists would try to hide behind great Singh Sabhiyas like Prof Gurmukh Singh, Giani Ditt Singh, Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha, Prof Sahib Singh, all of them were believers in Dasam Granth. Now it is Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawala, Sukha Jinda. They need to hang pictures of Kala Afghana, Jeowala, Ragi DArshan,

That is not 100% true my friend. Read Gurmat Maartund from beginning to end. Also, learn about Prof. Sahib Singh from those who stayed with him. Prof. Gurmukh Singh was totally anti-DG. It is not a contradiction to respect shaheeds for their shaheedi. Sukha and jinda were monas at one time, doesn't mean all Sikhs should become patit from Sikhi. Gurbani says:

Sanjh Kray Gunaa Keri

Shaad Avgun Chalnaa

[DTF]

How do you know that sukha and jinda were pro DG? How do you know that Bhai Jarnail Singh Ji would still be pro DG today? Lets not assume things and learn from Gurbani. My dad was pro DG until some years back. You learn with time and age. It is all about Guru's blessings. When Guru showers more Gurmat gyan, person learns more.

Come back to the Panth bro. Stop following the nonsense of these bemukhs who've infected the panth. You've been led astray from your Guru. Saying I follow Guru Granth Sahib Ji and then ridiculing, using vulgur language for Dasam Bani...brother, Guru is not going to be happy with you. Follow the path of our puratam great shaheeds, warriors,vidhvaans, gurmukhs...and come back to the Khalsa Fauj. As long as you oppose Dasam Patshah's Bani, you'll be an outcast, to put it mildly. Start now and beg Dasmesh Patshah to forgive you...you don't wanna die having done nindyia all your life of Kalgidhar's Bir Rass Bani.

Go to Paonta Sahib and stay there for a month, or whatever time, doing seva and reciting Gurbani. Ask Dashmesh Patshah to show you the truth.

But....whatever is in your destiny....remember, even nindaks are nindaks because that's the duty they've been assigned. Only way to change is to rub your forehead infront of maharaj to change your bad karams.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Come back to the Panth bro. Stop following the nonsense of these bemukhs who've infected the panth. You've been led astray from your Guru. Saying I follow Guru Granth Sahib Ji and then ridiculing, using vulgur language for Dasam Bani...brother, Guru is not going to be happy with you. Follow the path of our puratam great shaheeds, warriors,vidhvaans, gurmukhs...and come back to the Khalsa Fauj. As long as you oppose Dasam Patshah's Bani, you'll be an outcast, to put it mildly. Start now and beg Dasmesh Patshah to forgive you...you don't wanna die having done nindyia all your life of Kalgidhar's Bir Rass Bani.

Go to Paonta Sahib and stay there for a month, or whatever time, doing seva and reciting Gurbani. Ask Dashmesh Patshah to show you the truth.

But....whatever is in your destiny....remember, even nindaks are nindaks because that's the duty they've been assigned. Only way to change is to rub your forehead infront of maharaj to change your bad karams.

Did you get darshan of 10th paatshah telling you to promote DG? How do you know 10th paatshah didn't tell me to oppose DG? Lets not assume things based on what some baba told you. How am I an outcast by following Guru Granth Sahib Ji? Get darshan of Guru Gobind Singh Ji and find out. I know what Guru Ji told me to do. Otherwise, why would I spend time opposing DG here? I don't get anything other than abuses from you brothers. Take out some time, come to Toronto, we can go through all of DG and understand what the poets are talking about. I am sure you will understand what is going on and why things seem the way they are. I will not say this is wrong or that is wrong. You will do it yourself. I will just try to get you brothers thinking. Unfortunately, that can't be done here because DG is huge. We can also discuss about Paonta. Please just read DG once from start to finish after understanding basic concepts of Gurmat. You will be saying the same thing. You don't have to believe me, you just have to believe in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Kahan Singh Nabha made comments about DG in his Gurmat Maartund. Please read those to see that contents of DG were opposed by him too.

[Mithar]

That is not 100% true my friend. Read Gurmat Maartund from beginning to end. Also, learn about Prof. Sahib Singh from those who stayed with him. Prof. Gurmukh Singh was totally anti-DG. It is not a contradiction to respect shaheeds for their shaheedi. Sukha and jinda were monas at one time, doesn't mean all Sikhs should become patit from Sikhi. Gurbani says:

Sanjh Kray Gunaa Keri

Shaad Avgun Chalnaa

I remember a member on this forum named Sikh answers providing quotes from Gurmat Martand proving Kahn Singh Nabha believing in Dasam Granth. As for Sahib Singh, he also was a believer in Dasam Granth bani especially the Nitnemi dasam banis. I know what Kala Afghanists claim (without any proof from his writing), but sorry to say looking at the track record of the Kala Afghanists which are full of lies and half truths I cannot take their word on what Sahib Singh thought. Proof is in the writing of Sahib Singh, not what Kala Afghanists claim he thought. Read the article “Prof Sahib Singh Dasmesh Bani Bare” by Amarjit Singh Khosa who quotes from Prof Sahib Singh Jee’s own writing to prove he believed in Dasam Bani including Choupi

I think the reason you Kala Afghanists like to hide behind great names is because you don’t have any of your own to hide behind. It is sort of like how Hindus will always claim Sikh history as their own since they don’t have any great Shaheeds, Saint soldiers of their own to be proud of during the Mughal period.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

I remember a member on this forum named Sikh answers providing quotes from Gurmat Martand proving Kahn Singh Nabha believing in Dasam Granth. As for Sahib Singh, he also was a believer in Dasam Granth bani especially the Nitnemi dasam banis. I know what Kala Afghanists claim (without any proof from his writing), but sorry to say looking at the track record of the Kala Afghanists which are full of lies and half truths I cannot take their word on what Sahib Singh thought. Proof is in the writing of Sahib Singh, not what Kala Afghanists claim he thought. Read the article “Prof Sahib Singh Dasmesh Bani Bare” by Amarjit Singh Khosa who quotes from Prof Sahib Singh Jee’s own writing to prove he believed in Dasam Bani including Choupi

I think the reason you Kala Afghanists like to hide behind great names is because you don’t have any of your own to hide behind. It is sort of like how Hindus will always claim Sikh history as their own since they don’t have any great Shaheeds, Saint soldiers of their own to be proud of during the Mughal period.

Where does kala afgana come from? I haven't even read his books. You want to talk about hiding behind names? How about sometimes hiding behind Baba Deep Singh's name and soemtimes Bhai Mani Singh's name? I don't need to hide behind anyone's name. I rely on Gurmat. Kahan Singh Nabha did what he did. Sikh Answers is none other than Bijla. Tell him to come live talk and we will discuss DG and see what Kahan Singh Nabha said about it. Read the pages yourself or go through the videos. Pages from Kahan Singh Nabha were discussed.

It is true that people like Sahib Singh and Kahan SIngh Nabha didn't oppose all of Dasam Granth. They opposed many contents of it. This isn't something new or not known. Deravadis only got Bhai Jarnail Singh Bhindrawala to hide behind. I take support of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and give Gurbani quotes to expose DG. Rely on Guru and we will get to same page soon.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Talking about half truths. Saying poet names are pen names is far from 1% truth. Forget about half truth or half lies. By saying anti-DG people got half truth, do you mean they are 50% right?

[Mithar]

Where does kala afgana come from? I haven't even read his books. You want to talk about hiding behind names? How about sometimes hiding behind Baba Deep Singh's name and soemtimes Bhai Mani Singh's name? I don't need to hide behind anyone's name. I rely on Gurmat. Kahan Singh Nabha did what he did. Sikh Answers is none other than Bijla. Tell him to come live talk and we will discuss DG and see what Kahan Singh Nabha said about it. Read the pages yourself or go through the videos. Pages from Kahan Singh Nabha were discussed.

It is true that people like Sahib Singh and Kahan SIngh Nabha didn't oppose all of Dasam Granth. They opposed many contents of it. This isn't something new or not known. Deravadis only got Bhai Jarnail Singh Bhindrawala to hide behind. I take support of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and give Gurbani quotes to expose DG. Rely on Guru and we will get to same page soon.

I don't know who Sikh answers is. But he writes to you:

Here is what Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha writes in Gurmat Martand part 2 on page 567

ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ

ਸਾਹਿਬ-ਲੋਕ ਪ੍ਰਸਿੱਧ ਦਸਵੇਂ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ ਦਾ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ, ਜਿਸਦਾ ਸੰਖੇਪ ਨਾਮ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਹੈ, ਉਸਦੀ ਅਸਲਿਯਤ ਇਹ ਹੈ-ਕਾਵਯ ਪ੍ਰਿਅ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਸਾਹਿਬ, ਸ਼ਾਂਤ ਵੀਰ ਰਸ ਆਦਿਕ ਰਸ ਪੂਰਤ ਮਨੋਹਰ ਰਚਨਾ ਆਪ ਲਿਖਦੇ ਅਤੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਦਰਬਾਰੀ 52 ਕਵੀਆਂ ਤੋਂ ਨਿਰੰਤਰ ਲਿਖਵਾਇਆਂ ਕਰਦੇ ਸਨ…ਸੰਮਤ 1778 ਵਿਚ ਮਾਤਾ ਸੁੰਦਰੀ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਭਾਈ ਮਨੀ ਸਿੰਘ ਨੂੰ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਸਰ ਦੇ ਦਰਬਾਰ ਹਰਿਮੰਦਰ ਦਾ ਗ੍ਰੰਥੀ ਥਾਪਿਆ, ਭਾਈ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੇ ਇਹ ਸੇਵਾ ਉਤਮ ਰੀਤਿ ਨਾਲ ਨਿਭਾਹੀ ਅਰ ਇਸ ਸਮੇ ਕਈ ਪੁਸਤਕ ਲਿਖੇ…ਇਸਤੋਂ ਭਿੰਨ ਇਕ ਦਸਵੇਂ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹੀ ਦਾ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਲਿਖਿਆ, ਜਿਸ ਵਿਚ ਵਿਦਿਆ ਸਾਗਰ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਦੇ ਕੁਛ ਭਾਗ,ਜੋ ਯਤਨ ਕਰਕੇ ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਅਤੇ ਕਵੀਆਂ ਤੋਂ ਹੱਥ ਲੱਗ ਸਕੇ ਏਕੱਤਰ ਕੀਤੇ… ਦਸਮੇਸ਼ ਪਿਤਾ ਅਵਤਾਰਾਦਿਕ ਦੀ ਕਥਾ ਵਿਚ ਕਿਤੇ ਕਿਤੇ ਆਪਣਾ ਸਿਧਾਂਤ ਪ੍ਰਗਟ ਕਰ ਦੇਂਦੇ ਸਨ, ਜਿਸ ਤੋਂ ਪਾਠਕਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਟਪਲਾ ਨਾ ਲੱਗੇ; ਜਿਵੇਂ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨਾਵਤਾਰ ਵਿਚ ਇਹ ਚੌਪਈ ਹੈ, ਜਿਸ ਵਿਚ ਸਾਫ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਹੈ ਕਿ-‘ਕਿਸਨ ਬਿਸਨ ਕਬਹੂ ਨ ਧਿਆਊਂ’॥ ਐਸੇ ਹੀ ਰਾਮਾਵਤਾਰ ਦੇ ਅੰਤ ਪਾਠ ਹੈ-‘ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਕਹੈਂ ਮਤ ਏਕ ਨ ਮਾਨਯੋ॥ ਅਰ ਚੌਬੀਸ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਕਥਾ ਦੇ ਮੁੱਢ ਆਪਣੀ ਵੱਲੋਂ ਭੁਮਿਕਾ ਲਿਖ ਕੇ ਹੋਰ ਭੀ ਸਪਸ਼ਟ ਕਰ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਹੈ-‘ਜੋ ਚੌਬੀਸ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਕਹਾਏ॥ਤਿਨ ਭੀ ਤੁਮ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ! ਤਿਨਕ ਨ ਪਾਏ’॥…ਭਾਵੇਂ ਬੀੜਾਂ ਤਾਂ ਬੇਅੰਤ ਹਨ, ਪਰ ਮੁਖ ਦੋ ਹੀ ਹਨ-ਇਕ ਭਾਈ ਮਨੀ ਸਿੰਘ ਦੀ, ਜਿਸਦਾ ਦੂਜਾ ਨਾਮ ਭਾਈ ਦੀਪ ਸਿੰਘ ਵਾਲੀ ਭੀ ਹੈ*, ਦੂਜੀ ਭਾਈ ਸੁੱਖਾ ਸਿੰਘ ਦੀ ਜਿਸਨੂੰ ਖਾਸ ਬੀੜ ਭੀ ਸੱਦਦੇ ਹਨ। *ਕਿਉਂ ਕਿ ਬਾਬਾ ਦੀਪ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਇਸ ਦੀਆਂ ਕਈ ਕਾਪੀਆਂ ਕਰਾਈਆਂ ਸਨ”।

Regarding Bhagauti, one can read steek of Chandi Di Vaar written by him. It leaves no doubt that he believed in Dasam Granth. His son Bhagwant Singh spent 30 years studying Dasam Granth and wrote two important books.

I cant find the article on the internet but Amarjeet Singh Khosa provides quotes from Sahib Singh's own writes which leaves no doubt that Prof Sahib Singh was a firm beleiver in Dasam Granth. The burdan of proof is on you the Kala Afghanists to prove from Sahib Singh's own writes that he did not beleive in Dasam Granth Banis (or part of it). All you guys have is 1 or 2 old farts claiming they knew him and he told them (that's not proof). I have seen Kala Afghanists using lies to prove their point before. I have no reason to beleive them now unless they can provide proof from Sahib Singh's own writings.

Honestly, I pray for you that one day Guru Jee's shows you the truth about Dasam Bani. You need to think with an open mind. You have already made up your mind on Dasam Granth which all Shaheeds and Sikh vidvaans of the past believed in.

BTW, is that you in the black dastar in those videos? just curious

Edited December 12, 2009 by Mithar

[Laadli Fauj]

yeah mithar, it's him

[shaheediyan]

"How do you know that Bhai Jarnail Singh Ji would still be pro DG today?"

Lol, I suppose you think your leading bemukh mooraks like Darshian, Jeonwala and Afghana would have changed his mind.

You need to lay off Puff the magic dragon.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

I don't know who Sikh answers is. But he writes to you:

Here is what Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha writes in Gurmat Martand part 2 on page 567

ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ

ਸਾਹਿਬ-ਲੋਕ ਪ੍ਰਸਿੱਧ ਦਸਵੇਂ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ ਦਾ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ, ਜਿਸਦਾ ਸੰਖੇਪ ਨਾਮ ਦਸਮ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਹੈ, ਉਸਦੀ ਅਸਲਿਯਤ ਇਹ ਹੈ-ਕਾਵਯ ਪ੍ਰਿਅ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਸਾਹਿਬ, ਸ਼ਾਂਤ ਵੀਰ ਰਸ ਆਦਿਕ ਰਸ ਪੂਰਤ ਮਨੋਹਰ ਰਚਨਾ ਆਪ ਲਿਖਦੇ ਅਤੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਦਰਬਾਰੀ 52 ਕਵੀਆਂ ਤੋਂ ਨਿਰੰਤਰ ਲਿਖਵਾਇਆਂ ਕਰਦੇ ਸਨ…ਸੰਮਤ 1778 ਵਿਚ ਮਾਤਾ ਸੁੰਦਰੀ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਭਾਈ ਮਨੀ ਸਿੰਘ ਨੂੰ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਸਰ ਦੇ ਦਰਬਾਰ ਹਰਿਮੰਦਰ ਦਾ ਗ੍ਰੰਥੀ ਥਾਪਿਆ, ਭਾਈ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਨੇ ਇਹ ਸੇਵਾ ਉਤਮ ਰੀਤਿ ਨਾਲ ਨਿਭਾਹੀ ਅਰ ਇਸ ਸਮੇ ਕਈ ਪੁਸਤਕ ਲਿਖੇ…ਇਸਤੋਂ ਭਿੰਨ ਇਕ ਦਸਵੇਂ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹੀ ਦਾ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਲਿਖਿਆ, ਜਿਸ ਵਿਚ ਵਿਦਿਆ ਸਾਗਰ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਦੇ ਕੁਛ ਭਾਗ,ਜੋ ਯਤਨ ਕਰਕੇ ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਅਤੇ ਕਵੀਆਂ ਤੋਂ ਹੱਥ ਲੱਗ ਸਕੇ ਏਕੱਤਰ ਕੀਤੇ… ਦਸਮੇਸ਼ ਪਿਤਾ ਅਵਤਾਰਾਦਿਕ ਦੀ ਕਥਾ ਵਿਚ ਕਿਤੇ ਕਿਤੇ ਆਪਣਾ ਸਿਧਾਂਤ ਪ੍ਰਗਟ ਕਰ ਦੇਂਦੇ ਸਨ, ਜਿਸ ਤੋਂ ਪਾਠਕਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਟਪਲਾ ਨਾ ਲੱਗੇ; ਜਿਵੇਂ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨਾਵਤਾਰ ਵਿਚ ਇਹ ਚੌਪਈ ਹੈ, ਜਿਸ ਵਿਚ ਸਾਫ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਹੈ ਕਿ-‘ਕਿਸਨ ਬਿਸਨ ਕਬਹੂ ਨ ਧਿਆਊਂ’॥ ਐਸੇ ਹੀ ਰਾਮਾਵਤਾਰ ਦੇ ਅੰਤ ਪਾਠ ਹੈ-‘ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਕਹੈਂ ਮਤ ਏਕ ਨ ਮਾਨਯੋ॥ ਅਰ ਚੌਬੀਸ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਕਥਾ ਦੇ ਮੁੱਢ ਆਪਣੀ ਵੱਲੋਂ ਭੁਮਿਕਾ ਲਿਖ ਕੇ ਹੋਰ ਭੀ ਸਪਸ਼ਟ ਕਰ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਹੈ-‘ਜੋ ਚੌਬੀਸ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਕਹਾਏ॥ਤਿਨ ਭੀ ਤੁਮ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ! ਤਿਨਕ ਨ ਪਾਏ’॥…ਭਾਵੇਂ ਬੀੜਾਂ ਤਾਂ ਬੇਅੰਤ ਹਨ, ਪਰ ਮੁਖ ਦੋ ਹੀ ਹਨ-ਇਕ ਭਾਈ ਮਨੀ ਸਿੰਘ ਦੀ, ਜਿਸਦਾ ਦੂਜਾ ਨਾਮ ਭਾਈ ਦੀਪ ਸਿੰਘ ਵਾਲੀ ਭੀ ਹੈ*, ਦੂਜੀ ਭਾਈ ਸੁੱਖਾ ਸਿੰਘ ਦੀ ਜਿਸਨੂੰ ਖਾਸ ਬੀੜ ਭੀ ਸੱਦਦੇ ਹਨ। *ਕਿਉਂ ਕਿ ਬਾਬਾ ਦੀਪ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਇਸ ਦੀਆਂ ਕਈ ਕਾਪੀਆਂ ਕਰਾਈਆਂ ਸਨ”।

Regarding Bhagauti, one can read steek of Chandi Di Vaar written by him. It leaves no doubt that he believed in Dasam Granth. His son Bhagwant Singh spent 30 years studying Dasam Granth and wrote two important books.

I cant find the article on the internet but Amarjeet Singh Khosa provides quotes from Sahib Singh's own writes which leaves no doubt that Prof Sahib Singh was a firm beleiver in Dasam Granth. The burdan of proof is on you the Kala Afghanists to prove from Sahib Singh's own writes that he did not beleive in Dasam Granth Banis (or part of it). All you guys have is 1 or 2 old farts claiming they knew him and he told them (that's not proof). I have seen Kala Afghanists using lies to prove their point before. I have no reason to beleive them now unless they can provide proof from Sahib Singh's own writings.

Honestly, I pray for you that one day Guru Jee's shows you the truth about Dasam Bani. You need to think with an open mind. You have already made up your mind on Dasam Granth which all Shaheeds and Sikh vidvaans of the past believed in.

BTW, is that you in the black dastar in those videos? just curious

Why don't you post the whole thing? Why not post the rest where he speaks of poets and stuff? How about posting what he says for word kapardan? You only read what fits your mindset? How about the scans discussed in videos from Gurmat maartund? Do you agree with those?

How about what he writes about sarabloh granth? Do you agree?

ਕਪਰਦੀ

. * ਪੰਡਿਤ ਰਾਮਕ੍ਰਿਨ ਦਾ ਰਚਿਆ ''ਭਗਵਤੀ ਪਦ ਪੁਪਾਂਜਲਿ ਸਤੋਤ੍ਰ'' ਬਹੁਤ ਪੁਰਾਣਾ ਹੈ, ਜਿਸ ਦੇ ੩੦ ਤ੍ਰਿਭੰਗੀ ਛੰਦ ਹਨ ਇਸੇ ਦਾ ਸਤੰਤ੍ਰ ਅਨੁਵਾਦ ੨੦. ਤ੍ਰਿਭੰਗੀ ਛੰਦਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਇਹ ਅਕਾਲਉਸਤਤਿ ਦਾ ਪਾਠ ਹੈ, ਜੋ ਲੇਖਕਪ੍ਰਮਾਦ ਨਾਲ ਦੂਜੇ ਚੰਡੀਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਵਿੱਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਗਿਆ. ਪਾਠਕਾਂ ਦੇ ਗਾਨ ਹਿਤ ਦੋਹਾਂ ਅਸਤੋਤ੍ਰਾਂ ਦੇ ਕੁਝ ਪਾਠ ਲਿਖਦੇ ਹਾਂ-

ਸਰਬਲੋਹ

ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਬਦੰਥਾ.'' ... ਪੰਡਿਤ ਤਾਰਾ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਖੋਜ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਸਰਬਲੋਹ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਭਾਈ ਸੁੱਖਾ ਸਿੰਘ ਦੀ ਰਚਨਾ ਹੈ, ਜੋ ਪਟਨੇ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦਾ ਗ੍ਰੰਥੀ ਸੀ. ਉਸ ਨੇ ਪ੍ਰਗਟ ਕੀਤਾ ਕਿ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਇਹ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਜਗੰਨਾਥ ਦੀ ਝਾੜੀ ਵਿੱਚ ਰਹਿਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਇੱਕ ਅਵਧੂਤ ਉਦਾਸੀ ਤੋਂ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਹੈ, ਜੋ ਕਲਗੀਧਰ ਦੀ ਰਚਨਾ ਹੈ.

ਅਸੀਂ ਭੀ ਸਰਬਲੋਹ ਨੂੰ ਦਸ਼ਮੇਸ਼ ਦੀ ਰਚਨਾ ਮੰਨਣ ਲਈ ਤਿਆਰ ਨਹੀਂ, ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਇਸ ਵਿੱਚ ਰੂਪਦੀਪ ਭਾ ਪਿੰਗਲ ਦਾ ਜਿਕਰ ਆਇਆ ਹੈ. ਰੂਪਦੀਪ ਦੀ ਰਚਨਾ ਸੰਮਤ ੧੭੭੬ ਵਿੱਚ ਹੋਈ ਹੈ, ਅਤੇ ਕਲਗੀਧਰ ਸੰਮਤ ੧੭੬੫ ਵਿੱਚ ਜੋਤੀਜੋਤਿ ਸਮਾਏ ਹਨ, ਅਤੇ ਜੇ ਇਹ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਅਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸੰਸਕਾਰ ਤੋਂ ਪਹਿਲਾ ਹੈ, ਤਦ ਖਾਲਸੇ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਸੰਗ ਅਤੇ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਪੰਥ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰੁਤਾ ਦਾ ਜਿਕਰ ਕਿਸ ਤਰਾਂ ਆ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ? ਜੇ ਅਮ੍ਰਿਤਸੰਸਕਾਰ ਤੋਂ ਪਿੱਛੋਂ ਦੀ ਰਚਨਾ ਹੈ, ਤਦ ਦਾਸ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ, ਸ਼ਾਹ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਆਦਿਕ ਨਾਮ ਕਿਉਂ?

ਇਹ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਭੀ ਆਣ ਲਿਖਾਰੀਆਂ ਦੀ ਅਨਗਹਲੀ ਨਾਲ ਉਤਨਾ ਹੀ ਅਸ਼ੁੱਧ ਹੈ ਜਿਤਨਾ ਕਿ ਦਸਮਗ੍ਰੰਥ. ਗਯੰਦ ਦੀ ਥਾਂ ਨਇੰਦ, ਓਪ ਦੀ ਥਾਂ ਵੋਪ, ਸਾਮਕਰਨ ਦੀ ਥਾਂ ਸਮਾਕਰਨ, ਤ੍ਰਿਭੰਗੀ ਦੀ ਥਾਂ ਤ੍ਰਿਕੁੰਗੀ, ਵਖਟਕਾਰ ਦੀ ਥਾਂ ਬਖਤਕਾਰ, ਨਿਦ੍ਰਾ ਦੀ ਥਾਂ ਨਿਧਾ ਆਦਿਕ ਸੈਂਕੜੇ ਪਾਠ ਵਿਗਾੜੇ ਹੋਏ ਹਨ.

What does that say?

[Mithar]

Why don't you post the whole thing? Why not post the rest where he speaks of poets and stuff? How about posting what he says for word kapardan? You only read what fits your mindset? How about the scans discussed in videos from Gurmat maartund? Do you agree with those?

How about what he writes about sarabloh granth? Do you agree?

ਕਪਰਦੀ

. * ਪੰਡਿਤ ਰਾਮਕ੍ਰਿਨ ਦਾ ਰਚਿਆ ''ਭਗਵਤੀ ਪਦ ਪੁਪਾਂਜਲਿ ਸਤੋਤ੍ਰ'' ਬਹੁਤ ਪੁਰਾਣਾ ਹੈ, ਜਿਸ ਦੇ ੩੦ ਤ੍ਰਿਭੰਗੀ ਛੰਦ ਹਨ ਇਸੇ ਦਾ ਸਤੰਤ੍ਰ ਅਨੁਵਾਦ ੨੦. ਤ੍ਰਿਭੰਗੀ ਛੰਦਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਇਹ ਅਕਾਲਉਸਤਤਿ ਦਾ ਪਾਠ ਹੈ, ਜੋ ਲੇਖਕਪ੍ਰਮਾਦ ਨਾਲ ਦੂਜੇ ਚੰਡੀਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਵਿੱਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਗਿਆ. ਪਾਠਕਾਂ ਦੇ ਗਾਨ ਹਿਤ ਦੋਹਾਂ ਅਸਤੋਤ੍ਰਾਂ ਦੇ ਕੁਝ ਪਾਠ ਲਿਖਦੇ ਹਾਂ-

ਸਰਬਲੋਹ

ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਬਦੰਥਾ.'' ... ਪੰਡਿਤ ਤਾਰਾ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਖੋਜ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਸਰਬਲੋਹ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਭਾਈ ਸੁੱਖਾ ਸਿੰਘ ਦੀ ਰਚਨਾ ਹੈ, ਜੋ ਪਟਨੇ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦਾ ਗ੍ਰੰਥੀ ਸੀ. ਉਸ ਨੇ ਪ੍ਰਗਟ ਕੀਤਾ ਕਿ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਇਹ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਜਗੰਨਾਥ ਦੀ ਝਾੜੀ ਵਿੱਚ ਰਹਿਣ ਵਾਲੇ ਇੱਕ ਅਵਧੂਤ ਉਦਾਸੀ ਤੋਂ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਹੈ, ਜੋ ਕਲਗੀਧਰ ਦੀ ਰਚਨਾ ਹੈ.

ਅਸੀਂ ਭੀ ਸਰਬਲੋਹ ਨੂੰ ਦਸ਼ਮੇਸ਼ ਦੀ ਰਚਨਾ ਮੰਨਣ ਲਈ ਤਿਆਰ ਨਹੀਂ, ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਇਸ ਵਿੱਚ ਰੂਪਦੀਪ ਭਾ ਪਿੰਗਲ ਦਾ ਜਿਕਰ ਆਇਆ ਹੈ. ਰੂਪਦੀਪ ਦੀ ਰਚਨਾ ਸੰਮਤ ੧੭੭੬ ਵਿੱਚ ਹੋਈ ਹੈ, ਅਤੇ ਕਲਗੀਧਰ ਸੰਮਤ ੧੭੬੫ ਵਿੱਚ ਜੋਤੀਜੋਤਿ ਸਮਾਏ ਹਨ, ਅਤੇ ਜੇ ਇਹ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਅਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸੰਸਕਾਰ ਤੋਂ ਪਹਿਲਾ ਹੈ, ਤਦ ਖਾਲਸੇ ਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਸੰਗ ਅਤੇ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਪੰਥ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰੁਤਾ ਦਾ ਜਿਕਰ ਕਿਸ ਤਰਾਂ ਆ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ? ਜੇ ਅਮ੍ਰਿਤਸੰਸਕਾਰ ਤੋਂ ਪਿੱਛੋਂ ਦੀ ਰਚਨਾ ਹੈ, ਤਦ ਦਾਸ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ, ਸ਼ਾਹ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਆਦਿਕ ਨਾਮ ਕਿਉਂ?

ਇਹ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਭੀ ਆਣ ਲਿਖਾਰੀਆਂ ਦੀ ਅਨਗਹਲੀ ਨਾਲ ਉਤਨਾ ਹੀ ਅਸ਼ੁੱਧ ਹੈ ਜਿਤਨਾ ਕਿ ਦਸਮਗ੍ਰੰਥ. ਗਯੰਦ ਦੀ ਥਾਂ ਨਇੰਦ, ਓਪ ਦੀ ਥਾਂ ਵੋਪ, ਸਾਮਕਰਨ ਦੀ ਥਾਂ ਸਮਾਕਰਨ, ਤ੍ਰਿਭੰਗੀ ਦੀ ਥਾਂ ਤ੍ਰਿਕੁੰਗੀ, ਵਖਟਕਾਰ ਦੀ ਥਾਂ ਬਖਤਕਾਰ, ਨਿਦ੍ਰਾ ਦੀ ਥਾਂ ਨਿਧਾ ਆਦਿਕ ਸੈਂਕੜੇ ਪਾਠ ਵਿਗਾੜੇ ਹੋਏ ਹਨ.

What does that say?

Sorry, but your argument is on weak ground. Basically you are trying to grasp any straw you can to prove your point. Whether it is puraatan Gianis and Shaheeds or the modern ones, they are all believers in Dasam Granth. Sarbloh granth is a different matter. Not many puraatan and modern scholars have had a chance to study it as they had with Dasam Granth. From the videos I have seen of you, you seem like a good and bhalaa insaan.

I again urge you to come back to the Panth. The Panth is not going to change its stand on Dasam Granth. If anything, thanks to the Kala Afghanists, Panthic scholars/gianis/Amritdhari Singhs have become even more firm and fanatical supporters in Dasam Granth. If you guys had just kept your views to yourself, then maybe you guys would have had some success. But you guys made the same mistake that the Bhasaurias made, you were very vocal and open about your naastik/communist beliefs.

You guys don’t even realise that your whole movement is a GOI plan to confuse and weaken the Sikhs. As long as Sikhs are confused and fighting over Dasam granth, the GOI is just sitting back and laughing at our foolishness.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Sorry, but your argument is on weak ground. Basically you are trying to grasp any straw you can to prove your point. Whether it is puraatan Gianis and Shaheeds or the modern ones, they are all believers in Dasam Granth. Sarbloh granth is a different matter. Not many puraatan and modern scholars have had a chance to study it as they had with Dasam Granth. From the videos I have seen of you, you seem like a good and bhalaa insaan.

I again urge you to come back to the Panth. The Panth is not going to change its stand on Dasam Granth. If anything, thanks to the Kala Afghanists, Panthic scholars/gianis/Amritdhari Singhs have become even more firm and fanatical supporters in Dasam Granth. If you guys had just kept your views to yourself, then maybe you guys would have had some success. But you guys made the same mistake that the Bhasaurias made, you were very vocal and open about your naastik/communist beliefs.

You guys don’t even realise that your whole movement is a GOI plan to confuse and weaken the Sikhs. As long as Sikhs are confused and fighting over Dasam granth, the GOI is just sitting back and laughing at our foolishness.

My arguments are weak? What is weaker than saying pen names? Give me a break. Word kapardan is from Dasam Granth. That is what Kahan Singh is saying about that portion of DG. You saying no one studied Sarabloh, well, Kahan Singh sure studied it enough to expose it in a couple of paragraphs. Same could be said about rest of Dasam Granth and his promotion of word Bhagautee. Other than that, if you had watched the videos, you would have known what Kahan Singh said about Mahakaal and Charitropakhyan. If you like, I can prepare special videos based on what Kahan Singh said about Dasam Granth. I will include both the pro and anti-parts. Do you agree? Let me summarize what he believed.

He believed some writings to be of Guru Gobind SIngh Ji.

He belived most not to be writings of Guru Gobind SIngh Ji.

Why do I say most? 24 avtars and CP are more than 70% of Dasam Granth.

How is that different from what most missionaries preach?

You rejected Mahakaal, Chariters and some other contents. He believed 404 chariters, Krishan Avtar, etc. to be writings of poets as per Pg. 567 of his Gurmat Maartund. Do you agree? Also, what does that mean? That means it isn't Gurbani. Not very hard to understand is it?

True that he tried to prove Bhagautee to be acceptable. If he supported some section, it doesn't mean he supported everything else. Even Prof. Darshan Singh accepts Bhagautee. Does it mean he accepts all of Dasam Granth? I know I am bhalaa person, you should become one too. It be best to come clean and accept that Kahan Singh Nabhaa believed most of DG not to be written by Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

[singh2]

Sorry, but your argument is on weak ground. Basically you are trying to grasp any straw you can to prove your point. Whether it is puraatan Gianis and Shaheeds or the modern ones, they are all believers in Dasam Granth. Sarbloh granth is a different matter. Not many puraatan and modern scholars have had a chance to study it as they had with Dasam Granth. From the videos I have seen of you, you seem like a good and bhalaa insaan.

I again urge you to come back to the Panth. The Panth is not going to change its stand on Dasam Granth. If anything, thanks to the Kala Afghanists, Panthic scholars/gianis/Amritdhari Singhs have become even more firm and fanatical supporters in Dasam Granth. If you guys had just kept your views to yourself, then maybe you guys would have had some success. But you guys made the same mistake that the Bhasaurias made, you were very vocal and open about your naastik/communist beliefs.

You guys don’t even realise that your whole movement is a GOI plan to confuse and weaken the Sikhs. As long as Sikhs are confused and fighting over Dasam granth, the GOI is just sitting back and laughing at our foolishness.

Mithar ji

This man has no head. he does not beleive in DG at all. Then my question why he is discussing this subject.

Obviosuly he get his bread by perpetuating this debate. He will go on even though he does not believe in Dasam granth.

He wil go on saying my only scripture is SGGS. His gang has already trashed SGGS also.

http://www.panthic.org/articles/5169

SELF-STYLED KHALISTANI HERETIC CONTINUES TO SPEW KALA-AFGHANI VENOM

PANTHIC.ORG

Published on November 6, 2009

TORONTO, CANADA - The self-styled Khalistani and Kala-Afghani protégé, Harjinder Singh Dilgeer, has again become the center of controversy due to his anti-Panthic tirades on various Punjabi radio talk-shows, in which he has repeatedly attacked the authority of Sri Akal Takht Sahib, and the legitimacy of Nitnem and Amrit Sanchar Banis.

Dilgeer was invited to Canada to speak at a 1984 related function organized at the 'Sikh Lehar Center" by the pro-Kala Afghani heretic lobby in Toronto. Before the weekend function, Dilgeer went on various Punjabi radio talk-show programs in which he ridiculed the authority of Sri Akal Takht Sahib and spewed venomous statements against the sacred Bani of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

5169_Dilgeer_at_KAJ

Dilgeer addressing other heretics at the Kala-Afghani Sikh Lehr Center

Following are some extracts of Dilgeer's interview on Radio Hamsafar which aired on October, 26th of 2009 :

Dilgeer attempts to belittle the authority of Sri Akal Takht's HukamNamas, and alleges that anyone who obeys the order of Sri Akal Takht's HukamNamas is breaking away from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

(click to listen)

Note: Contrary to his current stand, Dilgeer in his 'Sikh Reference Book' (1997) states that "The Hukamnama of Akal Takht Sahib is final and binding for each and every Sikh. None dare defy it."

Dilgeer states that 1402 pages of Sri Dasam Granth is 'gand-mand' (filthy trash).

(click to listen)

Note: Dilgeer is stating that banis such as ਵਾਰ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਭਗਉਤੀ ਜੀ ਕੀ (which is part of the Sikh Ardaas), Shashtarnaamala, Zafarnama, and ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮੁਖਵਾਕ such as ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਨੂੰ ਹਾਲ ਮੁਰੀਦਾਂ ਦਾ ਕਹਿਣਾ, ਰੇ ਮਨ ਐਸੋ ਕਰ ਸੰਨਿਆਸਾ , etc is all filthy-trash or anti-Gurmat content. Dilgeer also seems to makes a distinction between Swaiyya and Akal Ustat, and does not realize that the Swaiyya are actually part of the Akal Ustat.

Dilgeer claims that 90% of Dasam Granth is against the ideals in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and the rest of the 10% is anti-Gurmat. He then ridicules the bani of BachitarNatak.

(click to listen)

Note: Dilgeer in his 'Sikh Reference Book' (1997) states that "Bachitar Natak- is the name of the poetic drama written by Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ."

Now Dilgeer claims that Dasam Granth is not Guru Rachna, and only a translation.

(click to listen)

Note: Dilgeer in his 'Sikh Reference Book' (1997) clearly states that Dasam Granth was a rachna of Guru Gobind Singh, and even noting the dates when some of the contents were completed.

Dilgeer misquotes and misrepresents the Charritars 21,22, and 23 of Roop/Anoop Koer . He states that those who believe that Dasam Granth is Guru Sahib's Bani are ਪਾਪੀ (sinners) and ਮੁਜ਼ਰਮ (criminals).

(click to listen)

Note: Dilgeer, like Ragi Darshan Singh is intentionally misrepresenting the charittars of Roop Koer or Noop Koer. This charriters are not about Guru Gobind Singh Ji as these heretics claim, this is explained in detail by Sridar Kapur Singh IAS (National Professor of Sikhism) in his article (ਕਿੱਸਾ ਰੂਪ ਕੌਰ ਦਾ) :

http://www.panthic.org/articles/3873

Dilgeer claims that no scholar or leader has read Dasam Granth, if they have and state it is Guru Sahib's rachna, then they are a ਮੁਜ਼ਰਮ or ਦੋਖੀ of the Guru.

(click to listen)

Note: Dilgeers seems be implying all Gursikhs who believed in Sri Dasam Granth in the past were ਮੁਜ਼ਰਮ or ਦੋਖੀ, this includes GurSikhs such as Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh Ji, Kavi Santokh Singh Ji, Giani Gian Singh Ji, Giani Ditt Singh Ji, Akali Kaur Singh Ji, Bhai Randhir Singh Ji, Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha, Prof. Sahib Singh Ji, Giani Gurbachan Singh Ji Bhinderan, Prof. Piara Singh Padam, and countless other scholars and Shaheeds who lived and died believing in Sri Dasam Bani.

Dilgeer suggests that Sri Akal Takht HukamNamas are anti-Gurmat and should be ignored, and not followed. He openly states that all Sikhs should defy any order from Sri Akal Takht, and gives Spokesman editor as an example.

(click to listen)

Note: Dilgeer proudly boasts that his 'friend' Joginder Sahwney has defied the HukamNamas of Sri Akal Takht Sahib, and others should do the same. In a recent revelation, Surinder Kaur Nihal, an ex-admirer of the Spokesman editor, went public to disclose the warped views of the ex-communicated newspaper heretic. According to her public statements, Sahwney stated that:

'ਬਾਬੇ ਨਾਨਕ ਨੇ ਆਪਣੇ ਹੱਥੀਂ ਕਿਸੇ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰਗੱਦੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਸੀ ਦਿੱਤੀ ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਉਹ ਅੱਗੇ ਗੱਦੀ ਚਲਾਉਣੀ ਹੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਨ ਚਾਹੁੰਦੇ ।'

"Guru Nanak did not bestow Gurgaddi to anyone, because He did not want to pass on the gaddi to anyone after him."

'ਮੈਂ ਬਾਬੇ ਨਾਨਕ ਤੋਂ ਸਿਵਾ ਬਾਕੀ ਨੌਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਨਹੀਂ ਮੰਨਦਾ (ਭਾਵ ਬਾਕੀ ਨੌ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬਾਨ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਹੀਂ ਮੰਨਦਾ) ।'

"Besides Baba Nanak, I do not believe in the rest of the nine (Gurus Sahibans)"

ਸ੍ਰ:ਜੋਗਿੰਦਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅਤੇ ਨੌ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬਾਨਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਇੱਕ ਵੱਡਾ ਬੰਨ੍ਹ ਮਾਰਦਿਆਂ ਹੋਇਆ ਸਾਨੂੰ ਉਲਟਾ ਸਵਾਲ ਕੀਤਾ ਕਿ ਤੁਹਾਡੇ ਕੋਲ ਨੌਆਂ ਗੁਰੂਆਂ ਦੀ ਹੋਂਦ ਦਾ ਕੀ ਸਬੂਤ ਹੈ ।

"Creating a distinction between Guru Nanak Dev Sahib and the nine Guru Sahibans, Joginder Singh asked, "What proof do you have about the existence of the other nine Gurus?"

3641_Main

Ex-communicated heretic Joginder Sawhney

The first statements by Sahwney were made at the bhog ceremony of Dilgeer's mother at Sector 46 Gurdwara in Chandigarh on May 17th, 2009. The fact that not only did Dilgeer allow Sahwney to make such offending remarks at his mother's bhog, and never clarified or apologized for them proves he must also agree with Sahwney's twisted mindset. He continues to work for Sahwney and publishes his works in the daily column of the Spokesman.

Below are extracts of the public statements made by Surinder Kaur of Mohali:

5169_SpokesmanEditor_quotedby_SurinderKaurMohali

Rangla Punjab Radio Interview:

Dilgeer raises doubts about the events of the 1699 Amrit-Sanchar Ceremony. Claims that Guru Gobind Singh Ji never took Pahul (Amrit) from the Panj Piyaray. Alleges if Guru Gobind Singh Ji took Amrit he would then have been a 'un-AmritDhari. He also questions the authenticity of verses of the Panthic Parvanat Ardas. States the source of ਤੇਗ ਬਹਾਦਰ ਸਿਮਰਿਐ ਘਰ ਨਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਆਵੈ ਧਾਇ ॥ ਸਭ ਥਾਈਂ ਹੋਇ ਸਹਾਇ ॥੧॥ ' in the Sikh Ardaas tuks are unknown.

(click to listen)

Note: It is common knowledge that the tuks written by Sri Dasam Patshah in his rachna ਵਾਰ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਭਗਉਤੀ ਜੀ ਕੀ ॥. To doubt it, is a direct attack on the foundations of Sikhi.

The above examples of blasphemy should leave no doubt that l ike loyal protégés, both Dilgeer and the Ragi are parroting the same ideology of the heretic Gurbakhsh Kala-Afghana, who was ex-communicated from the Sikh Panth in 2003.

In the footsteps of Kala-Afghana, both the Ragi and Dilgeer have openly questioned the validity of the sacred Banis of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji and the Nitnem Banis. While several Gurmattas and HukamaNamas have been issued from Sri Akal Takht Sahib strictly forbidding such criticism, this "shararteee ansar" (mischievous elements) as the Takht refers to them, continue to rake up the controversy on behest of others.

Like Ragi, Dilgeer also considered himself a Khalistani back in the 1980, and 1990s. He claims to have been part of the "inner circle" of the All India Sikh Students Federation, and the early days of the Dal Khalsa. Interestingly, both Ragi and Dilgeer, promoted the Bani of Sri Dasam Granth throughout those turbulent decades. Countless CDs and cassettes of the Ragi were released in which he recited hymns from Bachittar Natak, Krishanavtar, and Ramavtar. Now that era is over, they are looking for better pastures and opportunities to line their pockets.

Perhaps the agencies who planted these naastic-moles in the Panth two decades ago are finally reaping their rewards.

Edited December 14, 2009 by singh2

[singh2]

Regarding Bhagauti, one can read steek of Chandi Di Vaar written by him. It leaves no doubt that he believed in Dasam Granth. His son Bhagwant Singh spent 30 years studying Dasam Granth and wrote two important books.

We should have no doubt about Bhagauti and chandi as it is given in the composition itself.

These people have no scholarship and hence keep on changing their stand.

Read below

ਲਈ ਭਗਉਤੀ ਦੁਰਗਸਾਹਿ ਵਰਜਾਗਣਿ ਭਾਰੀ ॥

लई भगउती दुरगसाहि वरजागणि भारी ॥

Durga held out her sword, appearing like great lustrous fire;

ਲਾਈ ਰਾਜੇ ਸੁੰਭ ਨੋ ਰਤੁ ਪੀਐ ਪਿਆਰੀ ॥

लाई राजे सु्मभ नो रतु पीऐ पिआरी ॥

She struck it on the king Sumbh and this lovely weapon drinks blood.

ਧੂਹਿ ਲਈ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਣੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਮਿਆਨ ਤੇ ॥

धूहि लई क्रिपाणी दुरगा मिआन ते ॥

Durga pulled her sword from the scabbard.

ਚੰਡੀ ਰਾਕਸਿ ਖਾਣੀ ਵਾਹੀ ਦੈਤ ਨੂੰ ॥

चंडी राकसि खाणी वाही दैत नूं ॥

She struck the demon with that Chandi, the devourer of demons (that is the sword).

ਕੋਪਰ ਚੂਰਿ ਚਵਾਣੀ ਲੱਥੀ ਕਰਗ ਲੈ ॥

[Mithar]

Why do I say most? 24 avtars and CP are more than 70% of Dasam Granth.

How is that different from what most missionaries preach?

You rejected Mahakaal, Chariters and some other contents. He believed 404 chariters, Krishan Avtar, etc. to be writings of poets as per Pg. 567 of his Gurmat Maartund. Do you agree? Also, what does that mean? That means it isn't Gurbani. Not very hard to understand is it?

True that he tried to prove Bhagautee to be acceptable. If he supported some section, it doesn't mean he supported everything else. Even Prof. Darshan Singh accepts Bhagautee. Does it mean he accepts all of Dasam Granth? I know I am bhalaa person, you should become one too. It be best to come clean and accept that Kahan Singh Nabhaa believed most of DG not to be written by Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

Fauji, I suggest you read from the following link which shows Kahn Singh Nabha’s view on Dasam Granth:

http://www.patshahi10.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=331:2009-12-13-22-09-49&catid=35:punjabi-&Itemid=64

Sarbloh Granth is not even the issue here. As for Ragi Darshan Chand, he does not even believe in the Nitnemi Dasam Banis, what else can be said of him. He’s just a Ragi/singer, not a Vidhvaan. I didn’t get a chance to complete your videos, I will later this week. But rest assured, I’m not changing my views and neither is the Panth. You guys are tools of the GOI being used against the Panth. Please do all Panthic Sikhs a huge favour and remove the poster of Sant Bhindrawalay and Sukha Jinda from your future videos. You and other Kala Afghanists are just lucky these men are not alive right now. Please hang pictures of Ragi Darshan Chand, Kala Afghana, Jeowala.

[singh2]

you would have known what Kahan Singh said about Mahakaal and Charitropakhyan

Show us what he says about these compositions? Instaed of making propaganda videos show us where did he write

against these compostions?

I know you are not worth to talk to. but i want to see your source of such misinformation.

[singh2]

Persons who oppose charitropakhayan do not know what is setting and frame of charitropakhayn. Just picking up one or two charitras

and quoting those out of context does not mean anything.

Charitropakhayan is a composition that starts in charitra 2. It is interlinked. These fools have not read it and are going on quoting it foolishly from here and there.

That is why they do not come forward for panel discussions. Academics have again given them one month time to come forward but they will not come. You know why because their arguments will be shredded to pieces.

But seminar will be held and will be held close to residence of one of the starters of this issue so that he listens in his drawing room.

Regading Darshan ragi's scholarship on DG he cann't tell the meaaning of chartiropakhayan.

http://sikhsangat.org/2009/12/sikh-book-release-and-panthic-gathering-at-sri-amritsar/

It is important to mention here that Time TV approached one of the academics who have written extensively on Dasam granth to know if they were willing to have panel discussion with opposer of Dasam granth. he said "bring them on".

Time TV approached the anti dasam granth side.They refused.

Edited December 14, 2009 by singh2

[Mithar]

http://sikhsangat.org/2009/12/sikh-book-release-and-panthic-gathering-at-sri-amritsar/

It is important to mention here that Time TV approached one of the academics who have written extensively on Dasam granth to know if they were willing to have panel discussion with opposer of Dasam granth. he said "bring them on".

Time TV approached the anti dasam granth side.They refused.

Fauji, please reply to this post by Singh2. A challenge has been sent by Sri Dasam Granth Prabodh Sabha to the Kala Afghanists to debate and prove their point. Since you are always challenging others on Dasam Granth, it is time for you to show your so called gyaan/knowledge on Dasam Granth and debate these Panthic Vidhvaans. The challenge is there, let us see of you can do it.

[Guest]

Somebody book an flight for khalsa fauji to amritsar to attend this debate. If he is serious, i am willing to chip in and buy him air ticket. Kidda Khalsa fauji? It's a steal deal bro, as they say- kill two birds with one stone- engage in the debate with scholars who is willing to debate with that foorna, visit sri darbar sahib for darshan and missionary college if you like...! If you deny this offer? next time you cannot invite people to toronto, why not go to india for debate as in you guys views- whole sri dasam granth debate started by dera vadis living in India. Whats the fear bro? I am assuming you are Canadian Citizen, nothing will happen to you just an civil debate, canadian gov't will bring you back if you worried about something sinister happening to you at India. Take a break from your work. Winter is quite boring, dry and extreme here as you know in Toronto. Perfect time to take a break. If i were you, i would take this offer man.

[singh2]

Organizers have been asked to invite top guns.Most probably Gurtej singh Ex IAS, Harjinder dilgeer etc will be invited.

It is understood they will not come. But a suggestion is going through that organizers should go with invitation card to their homes in full view of press so that they cann't make excuse later.

It is difficult to catch a thief but ultimately thief will be exposed.This is the beginning of wake up response by khalsa to these guru nindaks.

[singh2]

N30singh ji

We will try to bring one seminar right at doorsteps of these heretics in Toronto. That will be the time when heretic ragi will be back in his summer home. These models of clay will be able to express their view point.

Inspite of this fauji and truck driver Jeonwala are invited.

Edited December 14, 2009 by singh2

[The Khalsa Fauj]

I don't have any intentions of going to India at the moment. Call up Faridabad missionaries for debate. I think they have been looking for a while. I don't have any plans to leave GTA (Greater Toronto Area). Send the challenge to spokesman or something. Even if I agreed to go to India, I wouldn't be able to go in 30 days at all for passport and visa reasons. As for ticket, I won't accept ticket from you guys because that will be immoral. I like to do kirat and use own money. You guys can pay for tickets of Sher Singh and Jodh Singh or something and call them here to Toronto. We will be more than happy to discuss Dasam Granth. We got lots of guys who are willing to discuss DG.

By the way, it would be awesome one day to visit Darbar Sahib, Akaal Takht and Kesgarh Sahib.

Lamba is in New York. He should come to Toronto and explain which granth is for bavasiir and which one is for face. He can also explain through youtube video.

Gurtej Singh isn't a scholar of Dasam Granth. Harjinder Singh is one. It would be best to invite Dalbir Singh Missionary or Faridabaad group or Jaswinder Singh Dubani or someone like that. It would also be cool to come to Toronto. Why did Hari Singh Randhawa leave stage in New York saying Takht says not to discuss DG and then was speaking at DG seminar? What a scene he made of himself.

N30 Ji! Winter isn't boring for me at all. It is time for skating and hockey.

Mithar Ji, I don't need to visit Lamba's website to know what kahan Singh Nabha said. I can read Punjabi and understand it very well. I have both parts of Gurmat Maartund on my side and also have Mahan Kosh. I know what he says very well. Read his Gurmat Maartund and see how he rejects Chandi Chariters and stuff and also Charitropakhyan along with Mahakaal. You will know when you go through videos though. Inder Ji, you should watch the videos too. You will know more about what Kahan Singh nabha said and you will know more about BN.

[Kam1825]

Why did Hari Singh Randhawa leave stage in New York saying Takht says not to discuss DG and then was speaking at DG seminar? What a scene he made of himself.

Fauji you are a shit stirrer aren't you! you started the lies that Baba Hari Singh Ji ran off fromt he stage only for the videos to prove otherwise. Again revert back to the videos which have been posted. It was the sangat bringing it to the attention of Baba Hari Singh, Prof Darshan Singh and the rest of the individuals who were ready to debate.

Fauji i have seen your videos today with the posters of the Sant Jarnail Singh Ji in the background. Why would you put Sant Ji up in the background who did katha of Dasam Granth. I was listening to their Jaap Sahib Katha today in which they mention Mahakaal and tell a few of the charitars in the katha. They also do Katha of the 30th Pauri of Jap Ji Sahib as well, Eka Maee Jugut Viyaee Tin Chelay Parvaan. Definately not the sort of made up arths you put on your blog and this forum from your naastick freinds like Baldev Singh!

By the Way if Sant Ji were still here and you think you would have been ablt to change their view on Dasam then i think you would have been in a bodybag!

Edited December 14, 2009 by Kam1825

[Matheen]

Gadhey je moorakh. Can't you see the damage you've done in the panth by dividing the sangat? Just because you lack the intellect or moral strength to understand Guru Sahib's bani doesn't mean you have to force your views on others.

Unlike you, Sant Ji had studied Dasam Bani in depth and understood what Guru Ji is saying. You lot first create definitions in your minds about what Gurmat should say then try to twist Gurbani to fit your views and anything that doesn't fall in with your views is cast out. You want to change Gurmat to fit your views instead of changing yourselves to follow Guru Sahib.

Enough talk, lets settle this with a wrestling match, lol.

Edited December 14, 2009 by Matheen