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Dasam Granth?

Just like to post a conversation about dasam granth which a friend had with a person who does not support dasam granth (subject y). Now could anyone give any

comments about subject Y's claims.

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x

You've made that group about sri dasam granth sahib ji, so you don't believe in it?, you deal realise 3 banis in the amrit sanchaar from sri dasam granth sahib ji. Yes Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj is our Guru, but Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji is an important part of the Sikh Panth, have you even read it.

y

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Yes, I realize everything. I have read both. In fact, I read Guru Granth Sahib Ji before reading Dasam Granth. Yes, I have read both granths and understand philosophy of both. As for Nitnaim and Amrit Sanchar banis, that is our rehat marayda. Panth has full right to make changes to rehat maryada. Therefore, once Sikhs realize the truth, rehat maryada will be fixed to have all procedures based on Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Dasam Granth is work of poets. Their names are: Shyam, Raam and Kaal. I am not making this up. Evidence is contained in Dasam Granth itself.

x

okay send me proof where this is written then? I don't see no reference to it? Most banis start with Sir Mahavak Patshai Dasvin which means The sacred utterance of The Tenth Sovereign, so ur saying amrit given is invalid?

y

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Amrit is never invalid. Gurbani is the Amrit. Gurbani is always valid. Gurbani is Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Khanday Kee Pahul ceremony is just the entrance to Khalsa Panth. How we proceed from there is what determines if we are Khalsa or not. It is true that three banis and ardass are from Dasam Granth. This is a panthic decision. Panth has the right to make changes whenever Panth gets together. Until then, we continue to go with the existing maryada.

Were you looking for proof about poet Shyam? A couple quotes are below. Feel free to send a message if you require more quotes.

ਅਬਿ ਚਉਬੀਸ ਉਚਰੌ ਅਵਤਾਰਾ। ਜਿਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਲਖਾ ਅਖਾਰਾ। ਸੁਨੀਅਹੁ ਸੰਤ ਸਬੈ ਚਿਤ ਲਾਈ। ਬਰਨਤ ਸ੍ਯਾਮ ਜਥਾ ਮਤਿ ਭਾਈ। ੧। {੨੪ ਅਵਤਾਰ ੧}

Abe Chaubees Uchro Avtaara Jeh Bid Tin Kaa Lkhaa Akhaara Suneeaho Sunt Sbai Chitt Laaee Burnutt Shyam Jathaa Mutt Bhaaee 1

Now I describe the twenty-four incarnations as their play was played. All saints are to focus on the story and listen. Shyam (poet) is stating them according to his own understanding. 1.

ਮਧੁ ਕੀਟਭ ਕੇ ਬਧ ਨਮਿਤ ਜਾ ਦਿਨ ਜਗਤ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ। ਸੁ ਕਬਿ ਸ੍ਯਾਮ ਤਾ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ਚੌਦਸਵੋ ਅਵਤਾਰ। ੪। {੨੪ ਅਵਤਾਰ ੩੭}

Mud Keetub Kay Badh Namitt Jaa Dinn Jagat Muraar. So Kub Syaam Taa Ko Khai Chadusvo Avtaar 4 {24 Avtar, 37}

When Vishnu prepares to kill Mudh and Keetab demons, Poet Shyam calls him the 14th incarnation. 4.

Please feel free to send a message back to ask further questions or seek clarification on any points.

x

but there is no references to this in the banis used for the amrit sanchaar or banis such as akaal ustat, chandi di vaar, bichtaar natak etc

y

Yes, you are right that there is no mention of these poets in those sections. Poets identify themselves at various places. If we examine the beliefs presented in other writings, they are similar to beliefs where the poets mention their names.

Chandi di vaar does a direct attack on Guru Granth Sahib Ji and its teachings. It says:

Durgaa Paath Bnaayaa Sabhe Pauriaa, Fir Na Joonee Aayaa Jin Eh Gayaa

meaning

All the stanzas have been written for Durgaa. Anyone who recites this will never come into reincarnation again.

Is saying that someone will get mukat by reading chandi di vaar not going against Guru Granth Sahib Ji? This is like saying, just read chandi di vaar, no need to read Gurbani or implement it into life.

Bachitter Natak, which is called APnee Katha, sings praises of Mahakaal. Mahakaal has 4 arms, drinks liqor, wears anklets, smashes bells, etc. Bachitter Natak also sends Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji to tirbeni, a Hindu pilgrimage site, for birth of a son. I will provide powerpoint presentations in the future to give details.

Guru Granth Sahib Ji says:

Ika Bani Ik Gur Ikko Shabad Veechar

Pothi Parmesur Kaa Thaan

Guru Granth Sahib Ji is complete Guru. That is why Guru Granth Shaib Ji was given Gurgaddi in 1708. Anti-Sikhs couldn't digest Sikhs being followers of one so they created and instroduced DG into us.

Sorry for making this long but if you are capable of understand Punjabi, I could link some videos about Dasam Granth.

x

please send as many as possible quotes on the claims. If we consider the two granths sri add guru granth sahib and sri dasam granth we would expect to see similar theme the ideal of avtars and reality of them are present in both granths. If anything the Dasam Granth would be anti-Hindu and it would be for the best intrests of the Indian Goverment to remove such a granth. In regards to linguistics away from tradational punjabi we start to see elements of braaj and other languages present from modern day punjabi so it is easy to make a mistake so bhul chuuk maaf kare maharaj. If you need anti-hindu quotes from both granths there are loads let me know.

ਤੇ ਭੁਜ ਬਲ ਬਵਰੇ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਗਏ ॥ ਪੂਜਤ ਪਰਮ ਪੁਰਖ ਰਹਿ ਗਏ ॥੬॥

Te bhuj bal bavre hvai gad|| Poojat Param Purakh raih gad||6||

Who became mad with power and abandoned the worship of Supreme Purusha.6.

ਤੇ ਹਮ ਤਮਕਿ ਤਨਕ ਮੋ ਖਾਪੇ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਕੀ ਠਉਰ ਦੇਵਤਾ ਥਾਪੇ ॥

Te ham tamak(i) tanak mo khaape|| Tin koo thaur devtaa thaape||

I destroyed them in no time and created gods in their place.

ਤੇ ਭੀ ਬਲਿ ਪੂਜਾ ਉਰਝਾਏ ॥ ਆਪਨ ਹੀ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਕਹਾਏ ॥੭॥

Te bhoo bal(i) poojaa urjhaae|| aapan hoo Parmesar kahaae||7||

They were also absorbed in the worship of power and called themselves Ominipotednt.7.

ਮਹਾਦੇਵ ਅਚੁੱਤ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥ ਬਿਸਨ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਕੋ ਠਹਿਰਾਯੋ ॥

Mahaadev achutt kahnyo|| Bisan aap hoo ko thahiraayo||

Mahadeo (Shiva) was called Achyuta (blotless), Vishnu considered himself the Supreme.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਆਪ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਬਖਾਨਾ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਜਾਨਾ ॥੮॥

Brahmaa aap Paarbrahm bakhaanaa|| Prabh ko Prabhoo na kinhoon jaanaa||8||

Brahma called himself Para Brahman, none could comprehend the Lord.8.

if you need more let me know

remembering professor darshan singh has also made an illiterate mistake in judging the 3rd person as 1st within the chitrapakhian bani for Rai. Most claims against dasam granth are being made by people clearly illiterate in the text. And those literate in the text have confirmed its authenticity. Hence this is why the sgpc all panthic groups sat down and declared it as bani.

y

Government isn't againt Dasam Granth. RSS has said that they would like parkash of Dasam Granth is all Gurduawaras. Hindus say Guru Ji worshipped devi by quoting Vaar Durgaa Kee aka Vaar Sri Bhagautee Jee Kee after title change. Did you know that the original name for Vaar Sri Bhagautee Jee Kee was Vaar Durgaa Kee? It was changed to not sound too Hindufied. If Vaar Durgaa Kee is Gurbani, who gave permission to anyone to change title from Vaar Durgaa Kee to Vaar Sri Bhagautee Jee Kee? There was a writing called Vaar Bhagautee Kee in Dasam Granth before Dasam Granth was edited in 1897 to be standardized. Who gave permission to anyone to remove writings from Dasam Granth if Dasam Granth is Gurbani?

Does God get angry?

Prof. Darshan Singh didn't make any claims. He just restated what was said at Dasam Granth seminar by Savinder Singh at Sacramento. Link is below:

Pyara Singh Padam, one of best scholars that Dasam Granth promoters had until Lamba came along, also said that story from Charitropakhyan is a personal life story of Guru Ji. Prof. Darshan Singh opposed this view at New York and Lamba did cutting and editing of his video to defame him.

Being anti-Brahma or anti-Vishnu or anti-Mahesh isn't being anti-Hindu. There are many sects in Hinduism. Some consider some devta high and some consider devi to be high and Shakti mat considers Mahakal to be the greatest.

Also, please think about the stanzas you just posted. God kept on making mistakes by creating something he didn't desire and then kept making changes? First he created demons but they didn't do what he wanted? Isn't God all powerful? Can't God make anyone become a Gurmukh? Even demons like Kauda became Gurmukhs. God of Dasam Granth seems worried and seems to be seeking sympathy. This sure isn't God as described in Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

x

You are aware that Shyaam is linguistically alike to Har both tracing there roots to Lord Krishna. The reference of the text for Shyaam is refering to God not a poet.

y

Which one? Kab Shyam? When you attach Kab in front of someone's name, you can't declare that person to be God. Key word there is poet. Shyam is poet's name.

Krishan of Yasoda might be lord for someone else but Gurbani says:

Tuom Jo Kahat Ho Nand So Nandan

Nand Ko Nandan Kaanko Re

Kabiiir Ko Swamee Ayso Thakur Jaa Ko

Maee Na Baapo Re

x

when all bani belongs to God, why is he not a poet.

bani says

har ji mata har ji pita

har is god so is shyaam god is profiled in gurbani to have many names

y

God, Akaal Moorat, came before Krishan of Yasoda. If we name someone Waheguru, that person won't be known as Waheguru as God. Same way, if Krishan was named Krishan, he wasn't God. God in nirankaar (formless), ajoonee (never comes or goes). Satgur Mera Sdaa Sdaa Na Aavai na Jaaye

Oh Abenaasee Purakh Hai Sabh mahe Rehaa Smaaye

x

ਅਸੰਖ ਨਾਵ ਅਸੰਖ ਥਾਵ ॥

असंख नाव असंख थाव ॥

Asaʼnkẖ nāv asaʼnkẖ thāv.

Countless names, countless places.

Guru Nanak Dev

ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਮ ਅਨੇਕਾ ਰੂਪ ਅਨੰਤਾ ਕਹਣੁ ਨ ਜਾਹੀ ਤੇਰੇ ਗੁਣ ਕੇਤੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

तेरे नाम अनेका रूप अनंता कहणु न जाही तेरे गुण केते ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

Ŧere nām anekā rūp ananṯā kahaṇ na jāhī ṯere guṇ keṯe. ||1|| rahā▫o.

Your Names are so many, and Your Forms are endless. No one can tell how may Glorious Virtues You have. ||1||Pause||

Guru Nanak Dev

Guru Granth Sahib

Page 718, Line 19

ਸੰਤਾਂ ਮਧੇ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਆਛੈ ਗੋਕਲ ਮਧੇ ਸਿਆਮ ਗੋ ॥

संतां मधे गोबिंदु आछै गोकल मधे सिआम गो ॥

Sanṯāʼn maḏẖe gobinḏ ācẖẖai gokal maḏẖe si▫ām go.

The Lord of the Universe, Govind, is within His Saints; Krishna, Shyaam, is in Gokal.

Devotee Namdev - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok

Page 718, Line 19

ਨਾਮੇ ਮਧੇ ਰਾਮੁ ਆਛੈ ਰਾਮ ਸਿਆਮ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਗੋ ॥੪॥੩॥

नामे मधे रामु आछै राम सिआम गोबिंद गो ॥४॥३॥

Nāme maḏẖe rām ācẖẖai rām si▫ām gobinḏ go. ||4||3||

The Lord, Raam, is in Naam Dayv. So here they are: Raam, Shyaam, Govind. ||4||3||

Devotee Namdev

Bear in mind this is all of Guru Granth Sahib

y

Everything is creation of God. Even liqor, cannabis, 5 vikaars, etc.

Aurangzeb was also a creation of God.

We don't worship creation. We sing praises of the Creator.

Shyam is the name of the poet. Kab Shyam, Kab Raam.

God isn't a human to write poetry.

Gurbani is written under name of the author.

Nanak for Nanak's lights.

Kabiir for Kabiir.

Farid for Farid.

You get the idea. Same way, Shyam is used by peot SHyam in Dasam Granth to identify himself.

x

In respect to Guru Granth Sahib calling God a poet there are many instances of such here is one;

Page 1389, Line 14

ਕਬਿ ਕਲ ਸੁਜਸੁ ਗਾਵਉ ਗੁਰ ਨਾਨਕ ਰਾਜੁ ਜੋਗੁ ਜਿਨਿ ਮਾਣਿਓ ॥੨॥

कबि कल सुजसु गावउ गुर नानक राजु जोगु जिनि माणिओ ॥२॥

Kab kal sujas gāva▫o gur Nānak rāj jog jin māṇi▫o. ||2||

KAL the poet sings the Sublime Praises of Guru Nanak, who enjoys mastery of Raja Yoga, the Yoga of meditation and success. ||2||

Bard Kal-sahar

Page 1390, Line 19

ਕਬਿ ਕਲ ਸੁਜਸੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਸਹਜਿ ਸਮਾਇਓ ॥੧੦॥

कबि कल सुजसु नानक गुर घटि घटि सहजि समाइओ ॥१०॥

Kab kal sujas Nānak gur gẖat gẖat sahj samā▫i▫o. ||10||

Says KAL the poet, the Sublime Praises of Guru Nanak intuitively permeate each and every heart. ||10||

Bard Kal-sahar

y

Yes, how are those quotes related to poet Shyam? Please clarify because I don't see any links. Of course Raam is a term for God because it means omnipresent. However, how is it related to Poet Shyam's work? If you totally ignore the word kab or shyam in writing, the quote will not make sense

Did you even look at the arths of those quotes? They are there. It says poet Kal. Kal was a poet. He was a bhatt. You are quoting from Bhatt Swayas. You have know the meaning of what you are reading. By the way, Bhatt Swayas are another proof that when it says Poet Kal, it is none other than name of the poet. Same way, writers of Dasam Granth are identifying themselves. I don't see anyone saying Bhatts of Guru Granth Sahib Ji are pen names of Guru Nanak.

Also, if you want. I can send you complete English or Punjabi translation of story 21-23 to know what Prof. was talking about.

x

send all quotes

what ang of the dasam granth is this quote of yours on

ਅਬਿ ਚਉਬੀਸ ਉਚਰੌ ਅਵਤਾਰਾ। ਜਿਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਲਖਾ ਅਖਾਰਾ। ਸੁਨੀਅਹੁ ਸੰਤ ਸਬੈ ਚਿਤ ਲਾਈ। ਬਰਨਤ ਸ੍ਯਾਮ ਜਥਾ ਮਤਿ ਭਾਈ। ੧। {੨੪ ਅਵਤਾਰ ੧}

Abe Chaubees Uchro Avtaara Jeh Bid Tin Kaa Lkhaa Akhaara Suneeaho Sunt Sbai Chitt Laaee Burnutt Shyam Jathaa Mutt Bhaaee 1

Now I describe the twenty-four incarnations as their play was played. All saints are to focus on the story and listen. Shyam (poet) is stating them according to his own understanding. 1.

ਮਧੁ ਕੀਟਭ ਕੇ ਬਧ ਨਮਿਤ ਜਾ ਦਿਨ ਜਗਤ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ। ਸੁ ਕਬਿ ਸ੍ਯਾਮ ਤਾ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ਚੌਦਸਵੋ ਅਵਤਾਰ। ੪। {੨੪ ਅਵਤਾਰ ੩੭}

Mud Keetub Kay Badh Namitt Jaa Dinn Jagat Muraar. So Kub Syaam Taa Ko Khai Chadusvo Avtaar 4 {24 Avtar, 37}

When Vishnu prepares to kill Mudh and Keetab demons, Poet Shyam calls him the 14th incarnation. 4.

are you making up that quote yourself, I cant seem to find it!

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all and Sarbatdapala Jee!

Real Seeker may learn true Naam Simran to become a Sikh.

Through discussions one cannot understand Guru's Vaaks.

The word Sayaam (Shyam) is not the name of a poet as explained by 'y' in your post.

Please ponder the first example.

ਅਬਿ ਚਉਬੀਸ ਉਚਰੌ ਅਵਤਾਰਾ। ਜਿਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਲਖਾ ਅਖਾਰਾ। ਸੁਨੀਅਹੁ ਸੰਤ ਸਬੈ ਚਿਤ ਲਾਈ। ਬਰਨਤ ਸ੍ਯਾਮ ਜਥਾ ਮਤਿ ਭਾਈ। ੧। {੨੪ ਅਵਤਾਰ ੧}

Abi Chaubees Uchro Avtaaraa. Jih Bidhi Tin Kaa Lakhaa Akhaara. Suneeahu Sant Sabai Chit Laaee. Barnat Sayaam Jathaa Mati Bhaaee. 1. {24 Avtaar 1}

From now twenty-four are verbalized Incarnations. The way, their play is observed. Listen! All Saints! Intently. Explanation of Sayaam accordingly the understanding pleases.

*****

Now please ponder the second referred example.

ਮਧੁ ਕੀਟਭ ਕੇ ਬਧ ਨਮਿਤ ਜਾ ਦਿਨ ਜਗਤ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ। ਸੁ ਕਬਿ ਸ੍ਯਾਮ ਤਾ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ਚੌਦਸਵੋ ਅਵਤਾਰ। ੪। {੨੪ ਅਵਤਾਰ ੩੭}

Madhu Keetabh Ke Badh Namit Jaa Din Jagat Muraari. Su Kabi Sayaam Taa Ko Khai Chadusvo Avtaar 4 {24 Avtaar 37}

For Madhu, Keetabh's slay that day Jagat Muraari. Him poets, call Sayaam the fourteenth incarnation.

*****

God's Attribute Bisan (Vishnu) and all His Avtaars have the same Sayaam color.

Balbir Singh

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an update from the convo

y

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Sorry for the late reply. I am not making anything up. I have given page numbers from online DG version available at www.dasamgranth.org

If you have the real DG in hard copy, first quote is the first quote from 24 avtars. It is on page 155. Second one is on 182 of DG. I dont' know page number from www.sridasam.org if you are searching there. It is hard to find things on that site because page numbers arne't proper there.

Also, for quotes from Chariter 21-23. Do you need them in original text only? With Punjabi translations or with english translations? Send me a message and I will send you quotes.

x

ok sorry couldnt find exactly that quote could find other instances of poet shyam. the name is mentioned around 113 times in dasam granth. What you think about this site

http://www.info-sikh.com/PageG4.html

Guru Ji has varyingly used the pen-names of ‘Shyam’, ‘Ram’ , ‘Shah Gobind’ and ‘Gobind Das’ in his compositions according to the meter in which they fitted. Other poets like Ghalib, Zafar and Nand Lal have also adopted multiple pen-names, this should not therefore create any confusion in the minds of the readers of the Dasam Granth. ‘Shyam’ and ‘Ram’ were the nick names with which Mata Gujri Ji used to call Guru Gobind Singh Ji as a child. This also avoided Mata Ji uttering the word ‘Gobind’ occuring in the name of her father-in-law, Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji, according to the custom prevalent among Indian women at that time.

The linguistics is important here, from ancient Indian culture we are aware that Lord Krishna was also known as gopal, shyam, govind, gobind, hari, har;

•Achala - The still one

•Achyuta - Infallible

•Baanke Bihari -corrupt form of Van Ke Vihari which means one who loves to sport in the forests particularly vrindavan

•Bihari - One who plays

•Brajesh - Lord of Braja

•Chakradhari - the bearer of a discus (chakra)

•Damodara (Daamodarah) - the Lord when He was tied with a cord (daama) round His waist (udara)

•Dinabandu - Friend of the afflicted

•Dînânâth - Refuge of destitutes

•Dwarakadish - Lord of Dwaraka

•Dwarakanath - Lord of Dwaraka

•Ghanshyam - Dark rain cloud complexioned one

•Giridhari - he who lifted a hill (Govardhana hill)

•Gopala - cowherd; protector of cows (more accurately protector of life)

•Gopinath - Lord of the gopis, or cowherd women.

•Govinda - protector of cows; also connected with Govardhana Hill; see also other meanings.

•Guruvayoorappan - Lord of the temple Guruvayoor, constructed by the Guru of Devas Brihaspati and Vayu .

•Hari - one who takes away [sins, or who wards off samsara, the cycle of birth and death]; [1] the yellow one (the colour of the sun); Hare Krishna is the vocative, viz. "o golden one! o dark-blue one"; see other meanings.

•Ishvara - god

•Hrshikesha - (Sanskrit: हृषीकेश) is a name of Vishnu that means 'lord of the senses'.

•Jagannatha - lord of all places (see also Juggernaut).

•Janardhana - One Who Bestows Boons On One And All

•Kahan

•Kaladev - the black deity

•Kanha or Kanhaiya

•Keshava - long haired, beautiful haired; see also other meanings.

•Madhava - bringer of springtime; see other meanings

•Madhusudanah - killer of demon Madhu

•Morari - killer of the asura named Mora

•Mukhilan- The one with the complexion similar to the rain clouds

•Mukund- He who gives you Mukti

•Nanda Gopal

•Nanda Lal - Beloved of Nanda

•Panduranga

•Parambrahman the highest Brahman

•Parameshvara the highest Ishvara, the highest god

•Partha sarathy - charioteer of Partha,another name of Arjuna, a reference to his role with regard to Arjuna in the great battle

•Patitapavana - Purifier of the fallen

•Radha Vallabha - lover of Radha

•Ranchhodrai - When he refused to fight the war and fled to Dwarka for the sake of peace. Dakor, Gujarat has a popular temple of Ranchhodraiji. Ran - Field, Chhod - leave.

•Shyamasundara - the beautiful, dark one

•Vāsudeva, Krishna Vaasudeva - son of Vasudeva

•Yadhunandan - Son of the Yadu dynasty

•Yogeshwara - the Lord of the Yogis

•Yashoda Nandan - child of Yashoda

Question. What is the identity of names ‘Shyam’ and ‘Ram’ that appear in some compositions of Dasam Granth?

Answer. This misunderstanding about the appearance of names ‘Ram’ and ‘Shyam’ in the Dasam Bani was first created by the self-styled puritans called the bhasurias. They tried to prove that most of the Dasam Granth was written by the poets Ram and Shyam, names which occur in one or two compositions in the Dasam Granth. There is more than sufficient internal and external evidence in every composition to show that all the writings in the Dasam Granth were the works of Guru Gobind Singh. The names Ram and Shyam are used in some places as pen names. Actually speaking, they were not pen names but poetic translations of Guruji's names. Guruji's name Gobind is an attributive name of God; so also are Ram and Shyam. In Sikh theology the three words govid, ram and syam mean the same thing as the following quotations from the Guru Granth prove:

siyam sundar taj nind kiun ai [Guru Arjan: Suhi]

siyam sundar taj an jo cahit jio, kusti tun jok [surdas: Sarang]

govid govid govid har govid guni nidhaan....

govid govid govid jap mukh ujhal pardhan [Guru Ram Das: Var Kanra]

ram ram kirtan gae ram ram ram sada sahae [Guru Arjan: Rag Gond]

In all the above quotations from the Guru Granth the words ram, syam and govid mean the same thing; and so also they do in the Dasam Granth where they stand for Guru Gobind Singh. That is why two or sometime all three of these names occur in the same composition.* This practice of writing a synonym for the proper noun in the Dasam Granth applies not only to his own name but to many other names also. iln the Dasam Granth, Guru Gobind Singh writes Netra Trung for Naina Devi, Satdrav for Satluj, Dasampur for Anandpur, Shah Sangram for Sango Shah, and Madra-desh for the Punjab. Even in our own times Bhai Sahib Vir Singh's maternal uncle Pandit Hazara Singh wrote his name Hazoor Hari while his father Dr. Charan Singh wrote his name Charan Hari. Sardar Dharma Anant Singh, in his book Plato and the True Enlightener of Soul, writes the name of Sant Attar Singh as Mrigindus Atrus. So Ram, Shyam and Govind are synonymous names of Guru Gobind Singh.

*In the Guru Granth the name Gobind is written both as ‘Govind’ and ‘Gobind’. But in Guru Gobind Singh's writings it always occurs with "b" as ‘Gobind’. Guru Gobind Singh spent most of his life in the Doaba area of the Punjab where the words with "v" are pronounced "b". Guru Gobind Singh Used it very often in his writings. He writes ‘bade bade’ for ‘vade vade’; ‘maru bajia’ for ‘maru vajia’; ‘abigat’ for ‘avigat’; ‘Bishnu’ for ‘Vishnu’; ‘barn’ for ‘varn’, and innumerable other cases. So Guruji preferred to write his name as Gobind and not as Govind.

(Adapted from Dr. Trilochan Singh's historic article 'The History and Compilation of the Dasm Granth, published in 1955)

y

Please don't copy paste content from Lamba's website. I know what he says. Do you buy that excuse that Shyam, Raam, Gobind are used for God so Guru used several pen names? Is this according to Guru Granth Sahib Ji's writing method? What happened to Nanak? Guru Gobind SIngh Ji wasn't light of Nanak? Light of Nanak uses Nanak, Kabir uses Kabiir, Farid uses Farid. Similarly, Shyam uses Shyam and Raam uses Raam.

Also:

Shyam means beautiful

Gobind means Master of the Universe (don't link it to cows)

Raam means Omnipresent

They don't have exact same meaning but are names for God because they describe God. Also, if someone is named Gobind Singh and he signs his name as Raam Singh, not only will his signature be rejected. There will also be jail time to serve. Integrity is a very important element of the Sikh faith. This is the reason why others respect it. All Gurus used Nanak. We don't see Khai Angad or Khai Amardas or Khai Arjan or Khai Tegh Bahadur. We see Nanak. These excuses of lamba and company might fool naive Sikhs but not those who have understood Gurbani. Why did all Gurus use Nanak? Because they were followers of Nanakian philosophy. Was tenth Nanak against Guru Nanak's philosophy?

You mentioned Shah Gobind which comes in Sarabloh Granth. Sarabloh Granth mentions Gurgaddi given to Guru Granth. Names of Sahibzadas, Khanday Kee Pahul, etc. Then what is name Shah Gobind for? What happened to Singh? Guru ordered everyon else to add Singh while he was using names such as Raam, Shyam, Shah Gobind, Das Gobind, etc.?

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Sarabloh Granth mentions Gurgaddi given to Guru Granth. Names of Sahibzadas, Khanday Kee Pahul, etc.

Is that true? Can someone scan and post this, if so?

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x

Its difficult to translate with proper arth and perceive bani in various dialects of Punjabi known to us let alone Braj Basha in Dasam Granth. So then it comes down to either facts proove your point can you bring evidence of a mischevious person of this name, aswell as only asking a learned scholar in braaj badsha and punjabi languages. Its difficult to understand Shakespeare as it is, a rule of thumb in every 25 years in every 25 miles a language changes.

"Studying Braj Bhasha literature, it can be noticed that most of the literature is of a mystical nature, related to the spiritual union of man with God. This is not at all surprising since virtually all of the poets were God-realised saints and their words are thus considered to be directly emanated from a divine source. Much of traditional Northern Indian literature shares this trait. All traditional Punjabi literature is similarly written by saints and is of a metaphysical and philosophical nature.

Another peculiar feature of Northern Indian literature is that the literature is mostly written from a female point of view, even by male poets. This is because the saints were in a state of transcendental, spiritual love, where they were metaphorically women reuniting with their beloved. (In its inversion of the conventional genders of worshipper and worshippee, Maulana Da’ud's Chandayan departs from this tradition.)"

y

Dasam Granth is not difficult to translate at all.

I sure got no problems understanding Punjabi.

Poets weren't godly people at all. God people don't write stories to defame others.

Godly people know who God is. They also know the difference between nirankar and mahakaal.

I am not sure who Maulana Da'ud is and don't need to know either.

Bachitter Natak 1

Bachitter Natak 2

Bachitter Natak 3

Bachitter Natak 4

Bachitter Natak 5

Bachitter Natak 6

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Sarbat da pala ji

This is a typical trait of a man who frequents many sites to propagate against dasam granth. It is his job. He seems to make a living from this.He has been banned form many forums.These people are not well read people and have not been able to understand Dasam granth.

Question for them is that they say they do not beleive anything outside SGGS ji.Then what are they doing on sikh forums.Simply do not entertain them.

Suffice to say that Guru ji have used pen names while writing his bani. Ram,shyam are his pen names. What these fools do not know that words ram and shyam come in one charitra together thereby establishing that they are one person.

For example he is giving name of poet shyam in chaubis avtar.He says that he is a hindu poet but he does not read the entire invocation which is exactly in line with sikh philosophy thereby establishing that shyam was none else other than Guru sahib.

But main suggetsion is do not entertain such rogue atheists.Just ask them to form their own forums.They are here basically to do propaganda and confuse people.

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x

when old people couldnt understand gurmukhi and clearly a language barrier would exist for you, what makes you say you can understand BRAJ. the language is around bihar areas aint used in punjab.

thanks for vids!

you have a pind accent, aooo gah lol aai gah. your common punjabi is wrong.

your an agent hired by pakistanis thats all, wanna destory our panth

Learn proper punjabi, then learn Braaj and sanskrit before making an illiterate analysis your clearly ignorant from your spoken punjabi.

y

Hahahahaha!

What jokes. So what if I speak pind punjabi? I am from Doaba. Doaba is different from majha and malwa. In Doaba, we talk like that. What does speaking pind type Punjabi have to do with knowledge? You are just looking for excuses.

Me being hired by Pakistanis is a new one. Never heard that before. I have never seen the Pakistan border, let alone become their agent. Hahahahaha! Pakistani agent is a new one. What is next? British agent? Canadian agent? American agent? French agent? Then when those names run out. Alien? Arrived in UFO from another planet to cause problems on Earth?

What is proper Punjabi? City one? I didn't know there was a special type of Punjabi called proper Punjabi. This is pure jokes. Illeterate analysis? That is jokes. Watch those videos with detail and get gyan. Enhancement of knowledge is always good.

Once again, Pakistani agent comment was jokes. In reality, I am an agent of Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Guru Nanak Ji was born is Pakistan, if you meant that by Pakistani, then that is cool and I appreciate it. I am a proud agent of Guru Nanak's mission.

x

lol, you've been proved wrong anyway. People like you will eventually even question the existence of Guru Gobind Singh Jee Maharaj. Why do you even say guru sahibs Fateh if you don’t believe he wrote anything. DHAN DHAN SRI DASAM GRANTH SAHIB JEE.

You are just another awi pindu moorakh, why try and analyse Braaj basha when your punjabi is wrong. The reason your punjabi is wrong is because of the lack of education you poses, City punjabi- is what results from education in schools you are mispronoucing words, your punjabi grammar is incorrect and sentence structures wrong. Every city has a different accent however there are rule of grammar in punjabi which you are completely ignorant of.

Also Guru Nanak was born in Talwandi 1469 in that time Pakistan didn't exist, it was still the land of Hind, The continent India, the state Punjab around Lahore. Pakistan was formed in 1947 and the captial of the city Lahore gone with 3 rivers to pakistan. So we can not say Guru Nanak was born in Pakistan, instead he took form in the place which is now present in modern day Pakistan.

Edited by sarbatdapala

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Gone are the days of true khoj and study, years down the line people will refference conversations done over MSN as the touchstones of truth.

lol

They will get a better idea of the kind of things people argued over everyday in the past, than anyone ever previously has. Unless Skynet achieves self-awareness and adapts the Internet as weapon to attack the human race.....

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Alot of santhiya, vidya of Sikhi has had an oral tradation for generations, katha till today still holds our fantastic history either way opinons and chinese whispers cause problems. As for the poet claim its hard to say anything about it maybe someone who heard all seminars or this may know. Guru Gobind Singh did have 52 poets in his darbar

Mahan Kosh

The list is from Mahan Kosh by Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha under the phrase 'Bavanja Kavi' (Fifty two poets.)

1. Uday Rai 2. Ani Rai 3. Amrit Rai 4. Allu 5. Asa Singh 6. Alim 7. Ishavar Dass, 8. Sukh Dev, 9. Sukha Singh, 1 0. Sukhia, 11. Sudama, 12. Sainapat, 13. Shyam 14. Heer, 15. Hussain Ali, 16. Hans Ram, 17. Kallu, 18. Kuveresh, 19. Khan Chand, 20. Gunia, 21. Gurdas, 22. Gopal, 23. Chandan, 24. Chanda, 25. Jamaal, 26. Tehkin, 27. Dharam Singh, 28. Dhanna Singh, 29. Dhayan Singh, 30. Nannoo, 31. Nishchal Dass, 32. Nihal Chand, 33. Nand Singh, 34. Nand Lal, 35. Pindi Dass, 36. Ballabh, 37. Balloo, 38. Bidhi Chand, 39. Bulland, 40. Brikh, 41. Brij Lal, 42. Mathura, 43. Madan Singh, 44. Madan Giri, 45. Malloo, 46. Maan Dass, 47. Mala Singh, 48. Mangal, 49. Ram, 50. Rawal, 51. Roshan Singh, 52. Lakha.

Sri Gur Pratap Suraj Granth

Kavi Santokh Singh gives this as the list of the Bavanja Kavi's in his magnum opus Suraj Prakash.

Nand Lal Ratee Rai Amrat Rai Attu Asa Singh Balam Iswar Das Sukh Dev Sukha Singh Sukhia Sudama Senapati Shyam Haer Hussain Ali Hans Rao Kallu Kubresh Khan Chand Gania Gurdas Gopal Chandan Chanda Jamaal Dahkan Dharam Singh Dhanna Singh Dhyan Singh Nanu Nihchal Das Nihal Chand Nand Singh Uday Rai Bullo Bhudhi Chand Buland Brikh Braj Lal Mathura Madan Singh Madan Gir Mullo Maan Das Mulla Singh Mangal Ram Raval Roshan Singh Makhan Alam Lakhan

Certain

These poets were certainly members of the 52 poets.

Alim/Alam

Allu/Attu

Amrit Rai

Asa Singh

Bidhi Chand

Brij Lal

Brikkha/Brikh

Buland

Chand (Chandan)

Chandra Sain Sainapati

Dhanna Singh

Dharam Singh

Dhyan Singh

Gopal

Gurdas Gunia

Gurdas Singh

Hans Ram/Hans Rao

Hir Bhatt/Haer

Husain Ali

Ishar Das/Iswar Das

Jamal

Kallu

Khan Chand

Lakkhan Rai/Lakhan

Madan Gir(i)

Maan Das Vairagi

Mangal Ram

Mathura Das

Nand Lal Goya

Nand Singh

Nihal Chand

Faqir Nihchal Das

Roshan Singh

Raval

Shyam

Sudama

Sukhia

Sukha Singh

Udai Rai

Uncertain

These members are probably not part of the 52 poets of Guru Gobind Singh.

1. Adha 5. Ani Rai 7. Ballu Bhatt 9. Bhoj Raj 8. Bhagatu 11. Bihari 12. Brahm Bhatt 18. Desu Bhatt 19. Devi Das 23. Girdhari Lal 28. Hari Das 32. Jado Rai 35. Kashi Ram 36. Kesho Bhatt 42. Maddu Singh 38. Kunvaresh 40. Lal Khiali 43. Madhu 44. Mala Singh 45. Mall Bhatt 2. Madan Singh 2. Mullo 2. Maan Das 2. Mulla Singh 2. Mangal Ram 49. Mir Chhabila 50. Mir Mushki 52. Nand Lal, Pandit 53. Nand Ram 55. NanVairagi 56. Narbud Bhatt 59. Phat Mall 60. Pindi Lal 61. Prahilad Rai 2. Ram Das 63. Pandit Raghunath 66. Sharda 71. Sundar 73. Sukhdev 72. Tahikan 73. Tansukh 74. Thakar Ratee Rai Balam Kubresh Dahkan Nanu Bullo Makhan

So Shyam is one of them any history on poet shyam? Or an example of a poet using his nicknames in his poetry to give first person narration? pray tell in braaj scriptures maybe Mahabharta or anything else.

shyam is one of the 52 poets

he is mentioned in suraj prakash granth

and mahan kosh

and is certain to be a poet in guru gobind singh darbar

it cud be a case

like where mehla 5 says koi nanak

just quoting

guru gobind singh quotin his own poet

Edited by sarbatdapala

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One thing I found strange was that in one of the youtube videos one guy (the one with the squeaky voice), when speaking about Mahakal and refering to an image of the deity makes a smug joke about the dark skin of the figure portrayed, saying something like "maybe she is from Africa or South India" (or something similar). I was at first really impressed with his knowledge of the contents of Dasam Granth but when I heard this, I though that any bani he is reading (even if you exclude Dasam Granth) mustn't be doing him much good if he comes out with toxic comments like that based on being dark skinned. Is that not just adopting some twisted notions of white supremacism in your world view? Because if we follow the inherent logic in that thinking, we are inferior than white people then because we are darker. This isn't something I believe in. And if I am going to take the pi55 out of someone, or something, I hope I wouldn't choose a dark skin hue as the sticking point. Just remember we were "wogs" to certain people, all of us, light skinned and not. Sorry I was just surprised to hear that from what appeared to be quite a knowledgable Amritdhari?

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One thing I found strange was that in one of the youtube videos one guy (the one with the squeaky voice), when speaking about Mahakal and refering to an image of the deity makes a smug joke about the dark skin of the figure portrayed, saying something like "maybe she is from Africa or South India" (or something similar). I was at first really impressed with his knowledge of the contents of Dasam Granth but when I heard this, I though that any bani he is reading (even if you exclude Dasam Granth) mustn't be doing him much good if he comes out with toxic comments like that based on being dark skinned. Is that not just adopting some twisted notions of white supremacism in your world view? Because if we follow the inherent logic in that thinking, we are inferior than white people then because we are darker. This isn't something I believe in. And if I am going to take the pi55 out of someone, or something, I hope I wouldn't choose a dark skin hue as the sticking point. Just remember we were "wogs" to certain people, all of us, light skinned and not. Sorry I was just surprised to hear that from what appeared to be quite a knowledgable Amritdhari?

So the guy says she's dark and might be from Africa or South India and you take it as dark people are lower than white.HAHAHAHAHAA Can you twist it even more. I know you can, just give it a try. People in Africa are darker and same with South India, due to the climate. Darker poeple come from Africa or South India, this is well known. It's an observation and it holds merit and attaches nothing about status. He didn't even say anything about status. It's you who is saying African or South Indian people are lower because in your lil head you see dark as lower. Stop putting words in other peoples mouth. And it's obvious your here to make people that respect Sri Dasam Granth look bad.

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Only 5. Are you <admin-cut>? The guy I was talking about was the one who was making Dasam Granth look real bad.

Try following what is happening a bit more carefully before you have one of your periodical kooti fits.

Watch that clip see, if he isn't trying to take the pi55. What is he? Your mate? lol

Edited by Parchand
no insults, lets keep it friendly

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Only 5. Are you retarded? The guy I was talking about was the one who was making Dasam Granth look real bad.

Try following what is happening a bit more carefully before you have one of your periodical kooti fits.

Watch that clip see, if he isn't trying to take the pi55. What is he? Your mate? lol

Stupidity must run in you. Tell me how saying she's dark and might be from Africa anything to do with status.

I was at first really impressed with his knowledge of the contents of Dasam Granth but when I heard this, I though that any bani he is reading (even if you exclude Dasam Granth) mustn't be doing him much good if he comes out with toxic comments like that based on being dark skinned.

Serious try harder to prove your lying. Maybe some fool like you would believe you. So you were impressed with him making Dasam Granth look reall bad. One lie after another keep them coming.

Edited by Only five

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Stupidity must run in you. Tell me how saying she's dark and might be from Africa anything to do with status.

Serious try harder to prove your lying. Maybe some fool like you would believe you

Seriously. I'm going to let you play with other children. I love Dasam Granth myself, so you know. Now go run around and bark at whoever you can find that doesn't.

Are you a bibi on her period by any chance, seriously?

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Seriously. I'm going to let you play with other children. I love Dasam Granth myself, so you know. Now go run around and bark at whoever you can find that doesn't.

Are you a bibi on her period by any chance, seriously?

Well you can come over to BC and see for yourself. Send me an pm and we can clear your doubts

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If I'm ever coming to Canada it wouldn't be to waste money to see you, believe you me. Waddha Internet soorma. I would offer you a similar proposal if you ever came to London but on reflection that would only make me look like a complete clun (like you). So I'll pass. Wadda Internet soorma. Bwaaahh!

Anyway, so your defending the bloke who is totally insulting Bachitar Natak? Do you agree with him then? Harani di gal! Normally you run around like a demented kooti on agg when anyone says anything negative about Dasam Granth! Aaj, you are defending someone doing the same thing? Did you forget to take your medication? Or did you have a change of mind? Dusso sanoo.

I hate these exchanges with you btw, they pretty much represent the lowest intellectual experiences I have. They say meeting a great mind expands your own, with you I feel my mind rapidly shrinking with every word we exchange.

Here is a deal for you.. I will let you say whatever you want about me to get it off your chest in your next post. Say whatever you like and get it all out. I will not respond. Just promise me I will not have to engage with you again.

Waheguru help me to avoid such people and their buckwas.

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If I'm ever coming to Canada it wouldn't be to waste money to see you, believe you me. Waddha Internet soorma. I would offer you a similar proposal if you ever came to London but on reflection that would only make me look like a complete clun (like you). So I'll pass. Wadda Internet soorma. Bwaaahh!

Who said anything about soorma. Again trying to put words in other peoples mouth. You can't stop can you.

Anyway, so your defending the bloke who is totally insulting Bachitar Natak? Do you agree with him then? Harani di gal! Normally you run around like a demented kooti on agg when anyone says anything negative about Dasam Granth! Aaj, you are defending someone doing the same thing? Did you forget to take your medication? Or did you have a change of mind? Dusso sanoo.

Not defending anyone just showing your lying and distortion. Here it is again for everyone to see how you changed your words in two seconds. First said this:

I was at first really impressed with his knowledge of the contents of Dasam Granth but when I heard this, I though that any bani he is reading (even if you exclude Dasam Granth) mustn't be doing him much good if he comes out with toxic comments like that based on being dark skinned.

I hate these exchanges with you btw, they pretty much represent the lowest intellectual experiences I have. They say meeting a great mind expands your own, with you I feel my mind rapidly shrinking with every word we exchange.

Here is a deal for you.. I will let you say whatever you want about me to get it off your chest in your next post. Say whatever you like and get it all out. I will not respond. Just promise me I will not have to engage with you again.

Waheguru help me to avoid such people and their buckwas.

Your slandering me and getting pissed off, blood vessels popping and I need medicine. Your a good chela of Prof Darshan Singh.

I don't need to slander you. All it does is shows what type of person you are. Are you going to again say your a Punjabi and won't take it from me. The guy who calls himself a Punjabi and won't take it from me is saying others are claiming to be soorma. You seriously need rest

Edited by Only five

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There there. I hope your all better now. I will keep my end of the deal I offered.

I made a peace offering before and I will do it again now. I would really appreciate it if you would help in the translation effort of the article on Bhai Vir Singh's editing.

That way we could actually try to engage in something practical, positive and purposeful.

Thank you very much.

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There there. I hope your all better now. I will keep my end of the deal I offered.

Keep telling yourself your to calm down, it might just work one day. Took you awhile to think here. Well that happens to people that are ready to have a overload.

I made a peace offering before and I will do it again now. I would really appreciate it if you would help in the translation effort of the article on Bhai Vir Singh's editing.

That way we could actually try to engage in something practical, positive and purposeful.

Thank you very much.

Peace offering, that's only needed if there is a war. your paranoid, serious go see a doctor. I just hope now you don't go off the walls. Please don't try to break a wall with your Punjabi fist.

Edited by Only five

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only 5 bhrava, dal singh never said he agrees with the notion that skin tone denotes social status/hierarchy. he merely stated that the fact that the guy in the vid made a comment regarding the skin tone, in a seemingly demeaning manner, made it seem that the guy thought that darker skin was a bad thing. dal singh obviously doesnt believe that himself. way to ruin a thread.

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only 5 bhrava, dal singh never said he agrees with the notion that skin tone denotes social status/hierarchy. he merely stated that the fact that the guy in the vid made a comment regarding the skin tone, in a seemingly demeaning manner, made it seem that the guy thought that darker skin was a bad thing. dal singh obviously doesnt believe that himself. way to ruin a thread.

Here is his little rant:

One thing I found strange was that in one of the youtube videos one guy (the one with the squeaky voice), when speaking about Mahakal and refering to an image of the deity makes a smug joke about the dark skin of the figure portrayed, saying something like "maybe she is from Africa or South India" (or something similar). I was at first really impressed with his knowledge of the contents of Dasam Granth but when I heard this, I though that any bani he is reading (even if you exclude Dasam Granth) mustn't be doing him much good if he comes out with toxic comments like that based on being dark skinned. Is that not just adopting some twisted notions of white supremacism in your world view? Because if we follow the inherent logic in that thinking, we are inferior than white people then because we are darker. This isn't something I believe in. And if I am going to take the pi55 out of someone, or something, I hope I wouldn't choose a dark skin hue as the sticking point. Just remember we were "wogs" to certain people, all of us, light skinned and not. Sorry I was just surprised to hear that from what appeared to be quite a knowledgable Amritdhari?

In the above Dal says hes impressed with the guys knowledge of Sri Dasam Granth. Then later he changes his statement to the guy in the video was saying bad things about Sri Dasam Granth. Now does that make any sense whatsoever. He's impressed with people insulting Sri Dasam Granth and then later says I love Sri Dasam Granth. Is he actually reading what he writes. Plus it's obvious which excuse he will come up with.

He associates status to color by himself. The guy speaks about Sri Dasam Granth has not said anything about status. If the person had just said look at the black diety then it's certainitly saying something about status. But when he adds it might be from Africa or South India then it's speaking about geographic climate. Dal knowningly is attaching status to defame whoever he is talking about. This Punjabi who doesn't take it from me is lying. And flopping around like a fish to find excuses.

If you guys want the post to go then mod's should delete all of them starting with Dalsingh101 post, which is off topic.

This dal guys is paranoid and thinks the world is after him.

Edited by Only five

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more on the convo

y

Show me "Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh" in Dasam Granth.

Show me existence of Mati Dass, Sati Dass, Bhai Dayala in DG.

Show me shaheedi of Guru Arjan in DG.

Regarding Punjabi grammar, when did you attend Punjabi University to get a degree in Punjabi? When did you do your MA in Punjabi? They have Punjabi University in UK?

Are you from Doaba? If not, then how do you know how people talk in Doaba?

Yea, you know what I meant by Pakistan comment. Also, pak means pavitar. Did you know? I am all for pavitartaa so I am a Pakistan agent in that sense.

Regarding proven wrong, DG has been proven wrong. Poets will always be poets. You cant change someone't identity by declaring someone to be someon else.

If a persons name is Hardev, are they God?

Can you sign your name as Gurdev?

Hardev and Gurdev are the same source.

How about signing your name is Sachdev?

You get the idea.

Here is what your DG says:

ਕੈ ਜੜ ਪ੍ਰਾਨਨ ਕੀ ਆਸਾ ਤਜੁ। ਕੈ ਰੁਚਿ ਮਾਨਿ ਆਉ ਮੁਹਿ ਕੌ ਭਜੁ। ਕੈ ਤੁਹਿ ਕਾਟਿ ਕਰੈ ਸਤ ਖੰਡਾ। ਕੈ ਦੈ ਮੋਰਿ ਭਗ ਬਿਖੈ ਲੰਡਾ। 11। ਰਾਜ ਕੁਅਰ ਅਤ ਹੀ ਤਬ ਡਰਾ। ਕਾਮ ਭੋਗ ਤਿਹ ਤ੍ਰਿਅ ਸੰਗ ਕਰਾ। ਇਹ ਛਲ ਸੈ ਵਾ ਕੋ ਛਲਿ ਗਈ। ਰਾਇ ਬਿਰਾਗਿਯਹਿ ਭੋਗਤ ਭਈ। 12। ਅੰਤ ਤ੍ਰਿਯਨ ਕੋ ਕਿਨੂੰ ਨ ਪਾਯੋ। ਬਿਧਨਾ ਸਿਰਜਿ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਪਛੁਤਾਯੋ। ਜਿਨ ਇਹ ਕਿਯੌ ਸਕਲ ਸੰਸਾਰੋ। ਵਹੈ ਪਛਾਨਿ ਭੇਦ ਤ੍ਰਿਯਾ ਹਾਰੋ। 13। 1। {ਚਰਿਤਰ 312, 5.4 87}

Kai Jurr Praanan Kee Aassa Tujj| Kai Ruch Maan Aao Muhe Kau Bhajj| Kai Tuhe Kaat Krai Satt Khanda| Kai Dai Morr Bhug Vikhai Lundaa| 11| Raaj Kuaar Aatt He Tub Draa| Kaam Bhog The Triyyeh Sung Karaa| Eh Shull Sai Vaa Ko Shull Gaee| Raaye Beraageyehh Bhogatt Bhaee| 12| Aant Triyyan Ko Kinnu Naa Paayo| Bidhnaa Sirraj Bahur Bashuttaayo| Jin Eh Keyau Sakkal Sansaaro| Vhai Pashaan Bhaidd Triyyah Haaro| 13| 1| {Chariter 312, 5.4, 87}

Hey fool! Either forget about living or have desireful sexual intercourse with me. Either I will cut you into seven pieces or place your penis (lundaa) into my vagina (bhug). 11. Prince was very scared at that moment. He had sexual intercourse with the woman. She ployed him with this ploy and had sexual intercourse with the young prince (Beraag Raaye). 12. No one has known the end of women. Even the Creator is regretting after creating them. The one who has created this creation, even he has failed to understand women. 13. 1.

Is that what you call elahi bani of 10th Nanak? Tenth Nanak uses vulgar language? Then he says even God is regretting after creating women? Are you a mistake made by God? Those are the final lines of the story giving the moral.

x

you prefer we do namaz then?

y

I do the namaj that Guru Nanak told me to do. GO read Gurbani and you will knnow.

x

so u have no problem cutting ur loora

y

What is a looraa? Someone telling me to learn Punjabi can't even write it?

Since you have never read Gurbani, let me tell you which namaj I do.

ਪੰਜਿ ਨਿਵਾਜਾ ਵਖਤ

ਪੰਜਿ ਪੰਜਾ ਪੰਜੇ ਨਾਉ ॥ ਪਹਿਲਾ ਸਚੁ ਹਲਾਲ ਦੁਇ ਤੀਜਾ ਖੈਰ ਖੁਦਾਇ ॥ ਚਉਥੀ ਨੀਅਤਿ ਰਾਸਿ ਮਨੁ ਪੰਜਵੀ

ਸਿਫਤਿ ਸਨਾਇ ॥ ਕਰਣੀ ਕਲਮਾ ਆਖਿ ਕੈ ਤਾ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਸਦਾਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਜੇਤੇ ਕੂੜਿਆਰ ਕੂੜੈ ਕੂੜੀ ਪਾਇ

॥3॥ - 141

ਕਾਇਆ ਕਿਰਦਾਰ ਅਉਰਤ ਯਕੀਨਾ ॥ ਰੰਗ ਤਮਾਸੇ

ਮਾਣਿ ਹਕੀਨਾ ॥ ਨਾਪਾਕ ਪਾਕੁ ਕਰਿ ਹਦੂਰਿ ਹਦੀਸਾ ਸਾਬਤ ਸੂਰਤਿ ਦਸਤਾਰ ਸਿਰਾ ॥12॥ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ

ਮੋਮ ਦਿਲਿ ਹੋਵੈ ॥ ਅੰਤਰ ਕੀ ਮਲੁ ਦਿਲ ਤੇ ਧੋਵੈ ॥ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਰੰਗ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨੇੜੈ ਜਿਉ ਕੁਸਮ ਪਾਟੁ ਘਿਉ

ਪਾਕੁ ਹਰਾ ॥13॥ - 1084

Understand them and implement them.

Gurbani's message is same for everyone. Doesn't matter which religion person belongs to.

Spread the message of Gurbani to the world. Don't tell a Hindu to be a true Hindu because true Hindus do what they did in 84. Don't tell a Muslim be a true Muslim, they will do what Bin Laden does.

x

If you are passionate about what you deem as kachi bani why dont you go attack the bahngra industry first they have women barely dressed singing songs of alcohol, nudity, sex, racism- caste, fair colour skin. Certain lyrics which are utterly disgusting, we are all with you for that cause. But for this you do not have enough evidence besides a mere opinon which you say you are the utmost expert scholar to address, your making a linguistic mistake.

y

If I oppose them and they put DG in front of me. What would I say?

E.g. Morawali and Dhadriawala said Babbu Mann singhs vulgar. What if Babbu Mann asked them about DG? What would Dhadree and Morawali say?

Sikhs have never had an educated leader. If there ever was one, he was either killed or jailed or sent home. Do you ever wonder why Jews, much less in number than Sikhs are more popular and famous in the world than us? They are smart and know how to protect their nation, culture and dharam. Do Sikh leaders know? All they know is gdaareee and selling out to Hindus. Everything is run by Hindus. SGPC, Akaal Takht, Akali Dal, Taksal, etc.

You people are going to break Sikhs into Sunnis and Shias due to ignorance because Gurmat gyani Sikhs will never accept DG.

Since no one else answered, please answer these questions:

1) Is Chariter 21-23 a personal life story of Guru Gobind SIngh Ji as said by all sants, brahmgyanis, bhais, jaths, taksals, deras and vidvaans until Lamba?

2) Did Guru Gobind SIngh Ji tell Sikhs to knock off and steal turbans from heads of non-Sikhs?

3) As per story 15. was Ramdaspur (Amritsar) and Kiratpur a safe haven for women committing adultery?

4) Guru Har Rai allowed women to jump into husband's pyre as per story 15?

5) Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji went to Hindu pilgrimage sites for a son and performed rituals there?

6) Is Hemkunt on another planet? If not, then why was Dusht Daman taking rebirth? Why not just come down from Hemkunt?

7) What clan were 2nd and 3rd Nanak from?

8) Did Guru Gobind Singh Ji have a problem with Nanak? If not, why not use Nanak? Why these poets?

9) Was Prehlaad a devotee of Vishnu of Hindus or God?

10) Why wasn't name of Piir Buddu Shah mentioned in Bhangani battle? Kirpal Dass Udasi is mentioned but not Piir Buddu Shah? Do you know the great contributions of Piir Ji?

x

watch this

Edited by sarbatdapala

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