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Khalsa Rehat - Nihang Perspective

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22 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

Mai Bhago ji did so much bhagti she lost attachment and worry of clothes, and walked around naked.

When this was brought to Guru Gobind Singh ji's attention Guru Sahib then intervened and told her to cover her body and her head and that walking naked would bring dishonour to her family.

That's the original and oldest reference we have to this sakhi.

From what I read, not a single reference was made to bring dishonor to one's family. Did you derive this from Suraj Prakash? 

 Guru Sahib explicitly told her to wear a Kacherra in Malwe Desh Rattan Di Sakhi Pothi. 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Kuttabanda2 said:

From what I read, not a single reference was made to bring dishonor to one's family. Did you derive this from Suraj Prakash? 

 Guru Sahib explicitly told her to wear a Kacherra in Malwe Desh Rattan Di Sakhi Pothi.

Yea it was Suraj Prakhash. I read that portion a while ago, couldn't remember where it came from.

When was - Malwe Desh Rattan Di Sakhi Pothi - written?

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6 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

Yea it was Suraj Prakhash. I read that portion a while ago, couldn't remember where it came from.

When was - Malwe Desh Rattan Di Sakhi Pothi - written?

Suraj Prakash is not the oldest record, Gur Rattan Mal (Shudh and Puraatan version/form) and Malwe Desh Rattan Di Sakhi Pothi is what Kavi Santokh Singh used when writting about the ninth and tenth Patshahis. 

Malwe Desh Rattan Di Sakhi Pothi was first thought to have been written in between 1700-1730s, It contains quite a few anecdotes and narrations that are written like travelogues and records, as in quite a few places, the author is most likely a close associate and contemporary of Mahala 9-10th as his work indicates.

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6 minutes ago, Kuttabanda2 said:

Suraj Prakash is not the oldest record, Gur Rattan Mal (Shudh and Puraatan version/form) and Malwe Desh Rattan Di Sakhi Pothi is what Kavi Santokh Singh used when writting about the ninth and tenth Patshahis. 

Malwe Desh Rattan Di Sakhi Pothi was first thought to have been written in between 1700-1730s, It contains quite a few anecdotes and narrations that are written like travelogues and records, as in quite a few places, the author is most likely a close associate and contemporary of Mahala 9-10th as his work indicates.

Very nice. Can you post excerpts talking about Mai Bhago and even other famous personalities?

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3 hours ago, Kuttabanda2 said:

Malwe Desh Rattan Di Sakhi Pothi was first thought to have been written in between 1700-1730s, It contains quite a few anecdotes and narrations that are written like travelogues and records, as in quite a few places, the author is most likely a close associate and contemporary of Mahala 9-10th as his work indicates.

Has it been translated into English?

Language - Hindi (Brij) or Punjabi?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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14 hours ago, Kuttabanda2 said:

Suraj Prakash is not the oldest record, Gur Rattan Mal (Shudh and Puraatan version/form) and Malwe Desh Rattan Di Sakhi Pothi is what Kavi Santokh Singh used when writting about the ninth and tenth Patshahis. 

Malwe Desh Rattan Di Sakhi Pothi was first thought to have been written in between 1700-1730s, It contains quite a few anecdotes and narrations that are written like travelogues and records, as in quite a few places, the author is most likely a close associate and contemporary of Mahala 9-10th as his work indicates.

Is that the one Sir Attar Singh translated for the British in the late 1800s? He called it the travels of Guru Tegh Bahadur or something similiar.

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3 hours ago, amardeep said:

Is that the one Sir Attar Singh translated for the British in the late 1800s? He called it the travels of Guru Tegh Bahadur or something similiar.

Yeah, he translated part of it.

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Interesting thread.

I too have noticed that much of the rehit literature is very male-centric, in that it directly addresses males and males only (but to be fair, so is a lot of pre-rehit Sikh literature, such as Bhai Gurdas Ji da Vaaran) We know that for a good chunk of history at least, a lot of women took kirpan-da-pahul and thus had their own rehit. However, there are references to women taking Khande-da-pahul (which I believe was originally how it was supposed to be), and one wonders if the Rehit literally applied equally to women in every case then.

For example, Mai Bhago wore kachh; but she was an exception. What about other [assumed] Khalsa women, such as those who were the wives of the Chaali Mukte who didn't go into battle and stayed at home? Were they to also wear kachh and full bana? On the other hand, some injunctions obviously applied equally, e.g., kesh (Prem Sumarag also says to give baptized women a kara). 

My hunch is that while a lot of the broad implications are the same (kesh, nitnem routine, kurehits, moral principles, etc) for both genders, there were some differences in the nuances of the matter. This isn't anything too crazy - e.g., bibiyan having private places for ishnaan, Singh vs Kaur surnames, women not having to wear dastaar, and so on. 

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JustAnotherSingh Jinwhat do you make of some of these rehets making the statement that no Singh should trust any woman even those close to them such as their own wives? I think it also says bibis can not recite bani in public, in sangat. I think Chaupa singh rehetnama has both. All the copies of so called puratan rehetnamas we have now were adulterated. You can't tell me Guru Ji would approve of the above.

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10 hours ago, WakeUp said:

JustAnotherSingh Jinwhat do you make of some of these rehets making the statement that no Singh should trust any woman even those close to them such as their own wives? I think it also says bibis can not recite bani in public, in sangat. I think Chaupa singh rehetnama has both. All the copies of so called puratan rehetnamas we have now were adulterated. You can't tell me Guru Ji would approve of the above.

Rehetnama? What an unusual way of spelling rahitnama. If i search for 'rehetnama' in the search option for the forum, the only recent results happen to be written by Satkirin. 

Stop playing games with us. We have asked you directly if you are her, - and you have given us untruthfull answers.

As you are only here to troll and cause trouble we will delete all future posts from you. You are not welcome any longer on this forum regardless of whatever fake ID you are going to use in the futre. You keep hammering on and on about the same topics - people have discussed with you and given their viewpoints, which you might agree to or not.... There is no point in going on and on in circles here on the forum as they don't contribute with anything new.

And don't bother answering to this making excuses and far fetched explanations of why you have been telling lies.

I wish you all the best, Gurfateh.

 

Edited by amardeep

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10 minutes ago, amardeep said:

Rehetnama? What an unusual way of spelling rahitnama. If i search for 'rehetnama' in the search option for the forum, the only recent results happen to be written by Satkirin. 

Stop playing games with us. We have asked you directly if you are her, - and you have given us untruthfull answers.

 You are not welcome any longer on this forum regardless of whatever fake ID you are going to use in the futre. You keep hammering on and on about the same topics - 

 

Veerji

Why is stkiran not welcome on the forum,?

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On 25/10/2016 at 7:10 AM, WakeUp said:

I agree much of the Chaupa Singh rhetnama is adulterated. I don't believe Guru Gobind Singh would approve of telling Singhs to never trust any woman even those close to them (even their own wife) and to consider all women the embodiment of deceit. Yet those words almost exact are included in the translated versions of Chaupa Singh Rhetnama available today. I very highly doubt that would have been supported by the Gurus or in any puratan rhetnama. I believe it also states women should not be given Amrit, that Singhs should never eat jooth from women even their own wives, and that women should never read from Guru Granth Sahib in sangat in public. These things are not in line with Sikhi and only degrade the female gender. 

I agree about keski / turban for including women

Sounds like stkiran

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13 hours ago, amardeep said:

Rehetnama? What an unusual way of spelling rahitnama. If i search for 'rehetnama' in the search option for the forum, the only recent results happen to be written by Satkirin. 

Stop playing games with us. We have asked you directly if you are her, - and you have given us untruthfull answers.

As you are only here to troll and cause trouble we will delete all future posts from you. You are not welcome any longer on this forum regardless of whatever fake ID you are going to use in the futre. You keep hammering on and on about the same topics - people have discussed with you and given their viewpoints, which you might agree to or not.... There is no point in going on and on in circles here on the forum as they don't contribute with anything new.

And don't bother answering to this making excuses and far fetched explanations of why you have been telling lies.

I wish you all the best, Gurfateh.

 

I'm not getting into the subject but, I just want to say that this sets a very bad example as a forum, to tell someone they are not welcome no matter who you think they are in real life.  I mean I was accused of being the same person for awhile. But regardless of that fact, I think you are giving a bad message if only certain view points are welcome on this forum. I have the same view points as he does, and now wondering should I now be fearful that you will tell me to leave next? In any case just by how I was already accused of being this person already, you could easily be wrong. And if so, you just told a member they were unwelcome because they posted their own views. And even if they did turn out to be that member you keep mentioning, I searched for the name satkiran and not much came up for actual posts just a lot of mention from others in posts, but what did see, I did not notice anything derogatory or inappropriate for a forum. So why is this person so unwelcome? Anyway I am not trying to be your next target. Anyway I just wanted to say this sets a bad example as a public forum which should be for all viewpoints. Sorry if said anything wrong.

WakeUp not everyone feels this way and I hope you stick around bro.  

 

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15 hours ago, JasperS said:

I'm not getting into the subject but, I just want to say that this sets a very bad example as a forum, to tell someone they are not welcome no matter who you think they are in real life.  I mean I was accused of being the same person for awhile. But regardless of that fact, I think you are giving a bad message if only certain view points are welcome on this forum. I have the same view points as he does, and now wondering should I now be fearful that you will tell me to leave next? In any case just by how I was already accused of being this person already, you could easily be wrong. And if so, you just told a member they were unwelcome because they posted their own views. And even if they did turn out to be that member you keep mentioning, I searched for the name satkiran and not much came up for actual posts just a lot of mention from others in posts, but what did see, I did not notice anything derogatory or inappropriate for a forum. So why is this person so unwelcome? Anyway I am not trying to be your next target. Anyway I just wanted to say this sets a bad example as a public forum which should be for all viewpoints. Sorry if said anything wrong.

WakeUp not everyone feels this way and I hope you stick around bro.  

 

I can understand what you're saying and you make a valid point. The thing however is that there have been given many warnings in the past to this individual so it is not a one-time occurence.

It is not about view points, - of course her views are welcome and to a large part I actually agree with her 99%. It is the way of arguing (or rather trolling), not respecting warnings and playing games going on and on and on in circles. Arguing for the sake of arguing. It ruins the overall spirit of the forum and does'nt contribute with anything.

You have nothing to worry about Singh.

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1 hour ago, amardeep said:

I can understand what you're saying and you make a valid point. The thing however is that there have been given many warnings in the past to this individual so it is not a one-time occurence.

It is not about view points, - of course her views are welcome and to a large part I actually agree with her 99%. It is the way of arguing (or rather trolling), not respecting warnings and playing games going on and on and on in circles. Arguing for the sake of arguing. It ruins the overall spirit of the forum and does'nt contribute with anything.

You have nothing to worry about Singh.

The only warnings I saw were that you thought WakeUp Ji was another member. What if you were wrong? And isn't a forum based on debate? Debates do tend to go in circles as everyone wants to try and sway each other to their points. To the same end, certain other users are guilty of that themselves just on the other side of the coin. Why is their view allowed to be stated over and over while the less popular one shunned? As for trolling I dont think he was trolling. He was just passionate about the subject. But it wasn't the only subject he was also discussing nature of reality with member bhagat singh and looked to me like he had a deep knowledge of vedic and sikh philosophy both. Could you maybe have made a mistake and are just seeing through anger? If you want a good example of trolling, I can name another member who has posted numerous derogatory posts about females (not go get back on that subject) but his posts were truly derogatory in some cases (after coming across a couple I did a search and found a bunch of threads he started with aims to just make females look bad in some sense.) And I don't think I have ever seen any warning to that member ( I won't mention name but if you don't know who I am talking about you can PM me). Why the double standard? I just think a forum should be public and anyone should be allowed to post as long as it's not derogatory or in a g-rated forum, sexually explicit, or promoting hate etc. Member WakeUp did none of that. No matter who they are (and forums by nature are anonymous, none of us are obligated to give our real life identities are we?) I just don't think he was doing anything wrong, nor anything that would be considered trolling. I don't think he was a she though as he mentioned a wife a couple of times. (Unless its a lesbian relationship??) But going in circles, is not as far as I can tell something considered against any forum rules and nearly all members are guilty of that because we all want to push our own views in hopes to convince others. If no debate was allowed, forums would be kind of boring don't you think? 

Anyway I hope he stays around regardless of being told he's unwelcome and that you can see maybe you were wrong. That's all. 

 

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On 26/10/2016 at 7:39 AM, Kuttabanda2 said:

Suraj Prakash is not the oldest record, Gur Rattan Mal (Shudh and Puraatan version/form) and Malwe Desh Rattan Di Sakhi Pothi is what Kavi Santokh Singh used when writting about the ninth and tenth Patshahis. 

 

Any idea of the years these were completed in ?

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On 8/15/2017 at 3:07 PM, amardeep said:

What are those about and how do you know Kavi Santokh Singh used those?

Malwe Desh Rattan Ki Sakhi Pothi is of Sakhis related to 9th and 10th Patshah in the Malwa Region of Panjab. Gur Rattan Mal is the old Sau Sakhi, apparently written by Ram Kuir Ji/Baba Gurbaksh Singh Ji and/or Bhai Sahib Singh, is a book that deals specifically with the 10th Guru. It has a load of interpolation, but Shudai can be done by consulting old  manuscripts. 

I don't remember if  Kavi Santokh Singh cited these two books in Suraj Prakash. But many Sakhis in Suraj Prakash are ditto copies of those two books.  

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