Chalisa 125,000 Mool Mantar

[Adhyatmic]

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ke Fateh

I have a few questions regarding a chalisa 125,000 mool mantar paath in 40 days.

First question is what is the maryada for it.

Secondly does anyone know of a person who has completed a chalsia or even attempted one?

What effects did it have on there jeeven? What troubles did they face when trying to complete one?

Does it matter if one is amritdhari or not?

Must it be done while sitting? How did they keep count of how much is done?

Edited April 19, 2010 by Adhyatmic

[shaheediyan]

Veer Ji,

Nearly all the well known Mahapurkh, were well known for completing chalisai (themselves). Namely, this is what they all did when they went visited Hazur Sahib.

Baba Balvinder Singh Nanaksar Valai (Hazur Sahib) are in my part of town at the moment (South London), and a few us are participating in a group chalisa, we will complete it in a 6 days, in time for a special divaan on Saturday celebrating the Jeevani of Sants.

To complete one by one self is a huge/difficult task, which would require huge devotion and dyaan and discipline.

The traditional way to keep count is to use a mala. Sava lakh mool mantars / 40 days = 3,125 per day. If you use a mala, then that is rotations of an 108 mala per day. A Mool Mantar (for normal people like me) at good speed with focus would take 10 seconds. That’s 6 per minute, 360 per hour. That is 8hours 50 minutes per day x 40 days. You get the picture! Its clear to see why its usually Mahapurkh who accomplish such great feats. That’s not to say you or me can’t, it just depends on how deep your desire is and what you are prepared to sacrifice. It depends on your responsibilities i.e. work, kids, other commitments etc, you still have to do your 7 basic baniyan etc etc.

Personally I would recommend doing a group chalisa, if there are 4 of you, then that = just over 2 hours commitment per day, which is realistic. Then you can build your way up, obviously much depends on your surti and kamai etc, as I am sure jeevan valai can easily repeat Mool Mantars at astonishing speeds...

Also a friend of mine uses some mechanical counter device, not sure what it is called, but it press the button each time you complete a mantar and it clocks it, easier than mala to count. I am a traditionalist, so prefer the mala method.

Hope that little helps.

[shaheediyan]

http://www.scoutshop.biz/counter/counter.htm

[Maha Singh]

Shouldnt the focus really be repitition with focus and thought upon the Shabad rather than just making up numbers? I personally would do as much as possible but the focus on atuning to the shabad and feeling the rass, rather then repeating just to get to a target.

Ultimately when your at such an avasta, you could do it without thinking, without counters, without malas and without targets.

[shaheediyan]

Yes of course its about focus, which is why every single repition should be done with pyaar and dhyaan. The target is simply a way of ensuring you put the effort/hours in, which is important (same as practice in any discipline).

Its a method all the Mahapurkh have used, and one which they promoted to sangatan. I respect people in their areas fo expertise - one can only know the relevance and effect of something when one has allowed themseles to experience it. The experience is amazing. And it leads from one thing to another. It creates a discplined and passionate mindset which is then transpoable to increasing learning/bhagti/shakti in other areas.

Many people do not have an iron will, which is why these methods have been invented, the 1st stage is target, the last stage is someone being immersed in 24/7 bani/simran.

[Kaljug]

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ke Fateh

I have a few questions regarding a chalisa 125,000 mool mantar paath in 40 days.

First question is what is the maryada for it.

AFAIK, it's the same as maryada for sharda pooran paath - i.e., have jal, jyot, and dhoop present. It should be done the first time sitting on the same place and the same time. Some say start at amritvela facing the rising sun, but I don't know if the direction one faces is really important if you can't see the sun (i.e., if you have no window facing east).

Sant Jagjit Singh Harkhowale writes about this in his autobiography which can be found online.

Secondly does anyone know of a person who has completed a chalsia or even attempted one?

What effects did it have on there jeeven? What troubles did they face when trying to complete one?

Yes, but I don't know how it changes their jeevan though I don't doubt that it had a mighty change on their internal state.

Giani Thakur Singh said that doing such an intense tapasya will sometimes bring out your past karams (so that they can be destroyed) - but the karams have to come out at some time anyway.

That's why people sometimes increase their tapasya in a gradual way (to reduce the sudden onslaught of problems).

However, things clear up quickly if you finish the chalisa. If you don't, from the experience I have heard from others, the negative situations remain for a while because they are not completely burned away by your tapasya.

Does it matter if one is amritdhari or not?

You don't have to be Amritdhari to do the chalisa, but you need to keep rehat while you are doing it

Must it be done while sitting? How did they keep count of how much is done?

This is recommended first time round because it is an aid to concentration. Unless your concentration is firm, it's too easy to get distracted if you do it while walking around.

Regards,

K.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Kaljug

[Kaljug]

Shouldnt the focus really be repitition with focus and thought upon the Shabad rather than just making up numbers?

Yes, but there's something to be said for throwing 1000 jabs every day for a month, and doing nothing else, to improve your boxing game.

K.

[Sat1176]

The counting devices are called Tally Counters. (cheaply available on ebay from Hong Kong ) Although be careful you don't get repetitive strain injury when using them. You can get ones that go upto 9,999 which makes it easier then not having worry about counting how many malas have you done.

Giani Thakhur Singh also said that you don't have to go for completing in 40 days as that would just be extremely difficult for a beginner. Just start of doing as many as you can and try and reach the 125,000 target. With guru ji's kirpa you will reach there eventually, just not in 40 days.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Sat1176

[Kaljug]

Giani Thakhur Singh also said that you don't have to go for completing in 40 days as that would just be extremely difficult for a beginner. Just start of doing as many as you can and try and reach the 125,000 target. With guru ji's kirpa you will reach there eventually, just not in 40 days.

I agree with this method.

Also, you can try doing the 33 malay a day for a week (or just on the weekend if you work) if you want something more intense and a feeling for how much sharda and dhyaan (and Gurukirpa) Gursikhs must have to do the whole 40 days.

It won't take a whole 8 hours as your repetition naturally gets faster, but it will still take 4-6 hours.

K.

[Sat1176]

Here is another tip. If your mind wonders whilst doing a recitation. Don't count it. Eventually that should teach your mind not to wonder and also teach you to listen to what you are saying and actually absorb what you are reciting. I often find that sometimes I feel I may be going so fast that I might be missing words out.

Here is something i'm struggling with. I'm trying to get to the stage where I can do the mool mantar with the mind but instinctively my tongue begins to move on certain words, hence moving back towards a silient jaap with the tongue. Any advice apart from perserverance?

I also do it whilst walking around throughout the day. Best time i find for me is when I'm on my way to and from work. That gives me a solid 2 hours in which to do it. Walking meditation can be quite an effective way of doing jaap. Think I heard somewhere Guru Teghbahdur Ji also mentions it in his bani. You will also hear and read that most abyasssi's all started doing it during their normal day to day activities. It gets to a stage where when ever you have a few moments you try and slip one in. Although you do loose sight of the counting involved. (let waheguru ji worry about exactly what number you are on) we can only estimate.

Obviously the best way is if you can doing it with full concentration whilst sitting down, but someone of us haven't reached that stage yet.

Go for it fellow Sikher! Don't talk the talk but walk the walk.

[Kaljug]

Here is something i'm struggling with. I'm trying to get to the stage where I can do the mool mantar with the mind but instinctively my tongue begins to move on certain words, hence moving back towards a silient jaap with the tongue. Any advice apart from perserverance?

Oh wait ... you said apart from perseverance.

I was told this happens of its own accord and not to force the change from silent jaap to mental jaap. Initially you will move on to mental repetition and back to silent utterance, but eventually it becomes completely internal and continuous without conscious effort.

Adhyatmic, I think you should do the chalisa and tell us how it went. :-D

K.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Kaljug

[Sat1176]

I was told this happens of its own accord and not to force the change from silent jaap to mental jaap. Initially you will move on to mental repetition and back to silent utterance, but eventually it becomes completely internal and continuous without conscious effort.

I personally think you need to consciously take that step yourself. One can sit at the stage of vocal recitation (not saying that it's a bad or anything) for as long as one wishes. It is very easy for the tongue to be reciting any jaap and the mind to be wondering elsewhere. To do it with the voice of the mind requires you mun to be involved in the process.

Bhul chuk marf if it contrary to instructions of true realised soul as daas is probably walking the long way round.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Sat1176

[jaikaara]

i have no idea how can one do sawa lakh in 40 days, it takes me atleast 7-8 mins to do the complete mool mantar 108 times

[Sat1176]

i have no idea how can one do sawa lakh in 40 days, it takes me atleast 7-8 mins to do the complete mool mantar 108 times

takes hours of effort like veer ji said above.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Sat1176

[Kaljug]

I personally think you need to consciously take that step yourself. One can sit at the stage of vocal recitation (not saying that it's a bad or anything) for as long as one wishes. It is very easy for the tongue to be reciting any jaap and the mind to be wondering elsewhere. To do it with the voice of the mind requires you mun to be involved in the process.

Bhul chuk marf if it contrary to instructions of true realised soul as daas is probably walking the long way round.

This was from Giani Thakur Singh.

I think what he meant was that one still has to involve the mind while one is reciting out loud (or even under one's breath), but the sound gives something for the mind to focus on while it is still in the wandering stage. It doesn't mean that you should do jap with your tounge but let your mind roam freely.

At some point though the mind takes up the jaap automatically and the toungue is not required.

Try this as an experiment: do a mala or two of mul mantar aloud while concentrating the mind then stop reciting aloud. You will find that your mind continues the jaap without having to focus on the sound. Of course, very soon your mind will start to wander when you lose this focus.

The longer one recites aloud with concentration, the longer will your mind continue the jap internally without an aural focus. You can of course increase the length of time you can stay in this state by making some effort to do mental jaap when your mind begins to wander, but initially you may have to switch back to vocal jaap to regain that concentration.

The idea is that eventually all jaap becomes internal when your dhyaan is strong enough (with Gurukirpa).

K.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Kaljug

[Kaljug]

i have no idea how can one do sawa lakh in 40 days, it takes me atleast 7-8 mins to do the complete mool mantar 108 times

To be honest, apart from Mahapurakhs, most of the people I know who have done this have been bibiya who don't work and have grown up children so that they have a lot of free time. Of course, having a lot of leisure time doesn't mean that anyone but people with a lot of sharda can accomplish the chalisa.

I have immense respect for any working man or woman who manages to complete the 40 days. I can't even begin to imagine how much dedication and willpower that must take.

K.

[Sat1176]

Kaljug, there are so many ways to reach the same final goal. The more I hear and read the more confused I get about which is the right method, 1 minute i'm doing 1 method then next minute the other. So now I have just decided to stop researching and starting doing. Only advice I can give is pick 1 method which works for you and just do it with sharda. Leave the rest to Waheguru Ji.

May he keep his mehar bharay hath on us all so we reach the stage of darshan of his lotus feet.

[Adhyatmic]

I will let you know if I ever attempt one. The problem is the usualy finding 40 days of solitude.

As mentioned above that's a similar problem I face I think I miss words out. Ill be doing ... ik oankar satnam karta purakh.........nanak hosbi sach .... its prob due to a lapse of concentration and wandering of the mind or for some strange reason I'm missing bits out.

Kind of reminds me of the 1, 2 miss a few 99 a hundred lol

[Kaljug]

Only advice I can give is pick 1 method which works for you and just do it with sharda. Leave the rest to Waheguru Ji.

Spot on.

K.

[Sat1176]

As mentioned above that's a similar problem I face I think I miss words out. Ill be doing ... ik oankar satnam karta purakh.........nanak hosbi sach .... its prob due to a lapse of concentration and wandering of the mind or for some strange reason I'm missing bits out.

Kind of reminds me of the 1, 2 miss a few 99 a hundred lol

If that ever happens to me now i just don't count it because it tells me clearly that my mun wasn't there. Will definately take longer to reach the target but who cares. The objective doesn't become 125,000 paths. (Although will be well chuffed when with guru ji's grace I get there) It becomes more of a method to help steady the mind with single pointed concentration and to want to do more paths to reach the target. Anything else is a bonus!

Edited April 19, 2010 by Sat1176

[shaheediyan]

I am pleased to say that our local Gurdwara sangat completed 250,000 Mool Mantar Jaaps in one week, double our target. Alongside there were hundreds of Sukhmani Sahib, Jap Ji Sahib and Chaupai Sahib paaths done by members of the sangat - all for the chardikalaa of the Panth.

This was all done with the organisation and guidance of Baba Balvinder Singh Nanaksar Vale, who in turn, organised the jaaps in memory of their Gurdev Sant Khem Singh Ji Rumi Vale, who recently passed away at the age of 109 years old after living a life (from early childhood) of intense seva and bhagti.

It is amazing to see how even today, a passionate Gursikh can bring so many sangtan together and inspire them to pray and do seva.

Having been skeptical in the past, I now see and understand how a target and deadline for completing a number of paaths and/or mantars can have massive benefits (on many levels), not only for an individual, but for a community. I pray this sort of anand is experienced by all Sikhs worldwide.

Baba Ji gave some figures regarding how many Mool Mantars are equivalent to a sehaj paath etc (based on the number of akkhar=Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji), I will try and dig these out.

Many people have come to this great forum and contributed all sorts of wonderful information, it would amazing to see if one day perhaps the sangtan of this forum could commit to a group Chalisa with an objective (of which there are many to choose from considering the state of the Panth) and together we could accomplish something wonderful, for ourselves, for this forum and for the Panth.

If this idea appeals, and there are any volunteers, please show your interest in this thread. If there are enough of us, with Maharajs kirpa, perhaps we can achieve something.

Dhanvaad.

Edited April 25, 2010 by shaheediyan

[Sat1176]

Do you know where is baba ji doing kirtan in coming weeks? If you have any further information please post.

[shaheediyan]

They flew back to Hazur Sahib (their base) yesterday. They may come again before November.

[Kaljug]

I am pleased to say that our local Gurdwara sangat completed 250,000 Mool Mantar Jaaps in one week, double our target. Alongside there were hundreds of Sukhmani Sahib, Jap Ji Sahib and Chaupai Sahib paaths done by members of the sangat - all for the chardikalaa of the Panth.

This was all done with the organisation and guidance of Baba Balvinder Singh Nanaksar Vale, who in turn, organised the jaaps in memory of their Gurdev Sant Khem Singh Ji Rumi Vale, who recently passed away at the age of 109 years old after living a life (from early childhood) of intense seva and bhagti.

It is amazing to see how even today, a passionate Gursikh can bring so many sangtan together and inspire them to pray and do seva.

Having been skeptical in the past, I now see and understand how a target and deadline for completing a number of paaths and/or mantars can have massive benefits (on many levels), not only for an individual, but for a community. I pray this sort of anand is experienced by all Sikhs worldwide.

Baba Ji gave some figures regarding how many Mool Mantars are equivalent to a sehaj paath etc (based on the number of akkhar=Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji), I will try and dig these out.

Many people have come to this great forum and contributed all sorts of wonderful information, it would amazing to see if one day perhaps the sangtan of this forum could commit to a group Chalisa with an objective (of which there are many to choose from considering the state of the Panth) and together we could accomplish something wonderful, for ourselves, for this forum and for the Panth.

If this idea appeals, and there are any volunteers, please show your interest in this thread. If there are enough of us, with Maharajs kirpa, perhaps we can achieve something.

Dhanvaad.

Congrats on your bhakti, veer ji!

I'm game for the chalisa. It would be cool if we could get at least 5 people so we could do 25,000 each over a period of 40 days. Ten people would be better because I'm a lazy moorakh.

Some opinions on the objective would be great. My vote would be for both martial power and cool heads (or political astuteness) for the Panth so that we have the ability to conquer enemies but the presence of mind to know when rajniti is called for rather than rudra ras.

K.

[Kaljug]

Congrats on your bhakti, veer ji!

I'm game for the chalisa. It would be cool if we could get at least 5 people so we could do 25,000 each over a period of 40 days. Ten people would be better because I'm a lazy moorakh.

Some opinions on the objective would be great. My vote would be for both martial power and cool heads (or political astuteness) for the Panth so that we have the ability to conquer enemies but the presence of mind to know when rajniti is called for rather than rudra ras.

K.

Come on, Singhs and Singhania! Who else is up for it?

If I have to do it myself, at the end of the 40 days I may just decide to ask Akal Purakh to turn you into poofs.

K.